CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 9 (Main Ability Discussion)

[Aldaron]

I'll give my thoughts on Abilities in a future post, but first I need to emphasize something off topic due to this popularity with Rock Head:

Our Pokemon CANNOT get a Rock type (Head Smash would be so broken god) or Ground type physical move. Absolutely not. The most dependable counters to it are Togekiss, Tentacruel, Crobat, and Aerodactyl...Let's keep it that way.

We can be liberal with support options because theorymon is VERY weak when it comes to those...however, we must be VERY careful with directly attacking options, because theorymon generally has the right idea.

 

[Lil Ant]

Having this pokemon with Leaf Guard would be interesting. I personally like it to have Rock Head and either Intimidate or Solar Power myself. I just wished giving it Head Smash was an option for it.

Read my post, we think just alike.

 

[Jace the Mind Sculptor]

I really like the idea of Leaf Guard. It seems most useful on this pokemon, at least more than the current pokemon that have it.

As for an offensive ability (whether this actually gets 2 abilities or not), I really like Solar Power but theorymon has suggested its too overpowered. I dont really like any of the other abilities TBH, they just all seem forced on this pokemon.

 

[Azacin]

Are we allowed to make new abilities for our new pokemon?

 

[Fishin]

Battle Armor works well as a filler IMO (ie if we can't agree on two better abilities it'd fit nicely in one of the slots) since it fits the description and is balanced, but it's just kinda...there, it doesn't really feel like it affects the Pokemon at all since the only thing it does is prevent something that has a 6.25% chance of happening from happening, so you hardly notice its presence.

Rock Head I like a lot, it fits theme-wise and makes a physical set much more viable (this thing just plain looks like it was made for Wood Hammer).

Also regarding physical movepool it's not like Rock Slide off 70 attack is really going to do significant damage to Togekiss or anything (Aerodactyl and Crobat will be less lucky but neither is really a 100% safe switch into this as it is, so...). I agree that EQ is a no-go, but I think Brick Break deserves consideration. TTar is already getting hit plenty hard by this Pokemon's other moves so it hardly affects Tar's status as a check, and again it's not going to beat Blissey without a lot of investment, and most likely not Heatran either though I'd have to calculate to check.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Our Pokemon CANNOT get a Rock type (Head Smash would be so broken god) or Ground type physical move. Absolutely not. The most dependable counters to it are Togekiss, Tentacruel, Crobat, and Aerodactyl...Let's keep it that way.

Understand but something about removing plausible moves just to give it's counter a chance at life seem weird to me. Beside that, Aero and Crobat being it's counter is odd on the fact they probably don't like STABBED Fire Blast/Grass Knots in the face all that well.

Where is that logic when people suggests Rock head in this thread? Don't take this as an personal attack on you this just me venting a little again about Rock Head.You logically took apart Dry Skin(Lizard especially desert lizard have dry skin) if people did with that Rock Head they would not even be suggesting it but this is going be last time saying something about it we each have our own opinion.

Well I'm assuming the logic behind Rock Head is that you don't have to have a head made of rock to have a hard head. That could explain why Bagon, Shelgon, Cubone, and Marowak have it and their head aren't made of rocks or even rock types to begin with. On a literal standpoint, it's wooden helmet/armor probably won't be enough to endure the constant stress from his suicidal attacks and breaking those wooden cannons be fucking bad for it. I personally neutral on the whole Rock Head thing.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Before I begin, I feel I should note that I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who's Sunny Day team needs a little extra something, so I am not what you would call unbiased in my thought process. <_<

Chlorophyll was the main ability being discussed iirc when the typing was first decided on, and I don't think that it would be broken if it's speed doubled under a certain weather. *waves to Kingdra*
Solar Power I'm rather unfamiliar with, but I believe it boosts Sp. Atk. in the sun at the cost of...12.5%? HP per turn. While it sort of goes against the idea of a bulky sweeper, it could be argued that the bulkiness allows it to take a hit or two while its HP depletes. This plus Leftovers could minimize the damage, as well.
Leaf Guard is one I didn't think of until I saw it mentioned, but the more I think about it the more I realize it would be awesome to have a tank that's immune to status.
Rock Head would certainly make physical sets more viable since it seems to be a foregone conclusion that this thing is getting Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz. But of course it can't get every recoil move under the sun if we want this thing to stay out of Ubers. Balance, moderation, etc.
Battle Armor is certainly fitting for the artwork, but as someone said (too lazy to check your name, sorry ;_;), it's just...there. Nothing too interesting, but it works.
Sniper is sort of the same, but not really. At least it could lead to a novelty crithax set, but there are just better abilities out there imo. It feels like a compromise ability if we're unable to agree on anything.

So I'm throwing my support behind the sun-related abilities (Chlorophyll, Solar Power, and Leaf Guard) for reasons stated above.

 

[KoA]

My two choices:

Battle Armor:This one is really kinda obvious, but it's the one pokemon with this trait that seems the most appropriate.

Steadfast: This guy looks nicely built and resilient. You can sense his determination form the art alone. I can totally see him getting this trait flavor-wise. Also makes Kiss user really rethink using Air Slash on this guy.

 

[tennisace]

ok semi-long post ahead.

Drought: Normally, I would scream broken. HOWEVER, how is this different from Sand Stream or Snow Warning? It doesn't damage pokemon, and most pokemon that it boosts are UU so it will diversify the metagame. So what if fire is strengthened and water weakened in the sun? Smart opponents can take advantage of this. So what if SS and Hail teams are given a run for their money? Many people complain about this anyways. So what if Solarbeam gets no charge up time? Its a 120 bp move with 100% accuracy in the sun. Blizzard is the exact same in hail. Its arguably less annoying than SS because it doesn't boost SpD of Rock types.

Battle Armor: What is the most annoying thing to happen once you're set up and stalling and winning? Critical Hits. These make or break games, so you arguably get a more fun game by temporarily getting rid of them, because you don't rely on luck. Not much else to say.

Chlorophyll: No. We made it slow, it should stay slow barring the odd scarf set.

Rock Head: I'm on the fence for this one. All recoil moves are physical, and this guy's physical attack is somewhat low. Granted, With a CB, this thing could start throwing around Flare Blitzes or Wood Hammers with no consequences.

Solar Power: Isn't this thing powerful enough? We don't need to boost it even more.

Leaf Guard: There's a nice idea. Preventing status in sun isn't too broken, but not very powerful either with all of the TTars that are going to be running up to this and raining (Sand Storming?) on his parade. Meh.

Splinters/Rough Skin: TTar used Stone Edge! Its Super Effective! (1% Hp remaining on woodman) Rough Skin hurt TTar! TTar fainted! Errr...no. Since most Rock and Flying moves are Physical Contact moves, this is just too broken.

Hustle: Just Lulz. Not worth it IMO, since if you're running an offensive set you cannot afford to miss.

There's my two cents folks. I'll reveal my vote when it comes time for the poll.

Edit: forgot a couple big ones.

Steadfast: Inner Focus would be better because of HaxKiss's Air Slash. Just think of it as a 60% chance of boosting speed, which would be bad because then it could take down some faster "checks".

Sniper: I'm not too fond of this one here, because this thing is bulky enough to make a crithax set as ParanoidDrone said. If this thing got Leaf Blade it would rip through counters, checks, and your grandma like nothing. Anyways, who relies on hax these days besides the odd Togekiss/Bloss? Waste of an ablilty.

 

[1059860]

Battle Armor works well. Especially I am sick and tired of Critical Hits, as well as it makes sense since it seems like it has wood armor.

Just a suggestion, maybe a possibility:
Infernal Impact: All SPECIAL ATTACKS used by this Pokemon has a 20% chance of Burn. Moves with chance of Burn already will have 20% add upon it (for example, Lava Plume's 30% chance of Burn will become 36%). It cannot burn other Fire Type pokemon. This ability does NOT affect PHYSICAL attacks or other non-attack moves.

 

[Luck]

Well I'm assuming the logic behind Rock Head is that you don't have to have a head made of rock to have a hard head. That could explain why Bagon, Shelgon, Cubone, and Marowak have it and their head aren't made of rocks or even rock types to begin with. On a literal standpoint, it's wooden helmet/armor probably won't be enough to endure the constant stress from his suicidal attacks and breaking those wooden cannons be fucking bad for it. I personally neutral on the whole Rock Head thing.

Like i am said pretty much done on the Rock Head thing; people like it way more for stopping the recoil damage than it fitting the pokemon and I am fine with that no sense in arguing over small stuff.

So far the only trait that has been eliminated is Drought.Which most people feel is overpowered( i disagree on the op thing but admit the drought coming in be itself will be imbalanced).The game will turn into weather wars without set of measures to stop that,Pokemon would stop being fun every team is sunny,rainy,hail or stream team.

Flash Fire,Chlorophyll,Intimidate,Rock Head probably should be eliminated on the grounds that we have large amounts pokes with these abilities already.If we have different uncommon abilities that work and make sense on the poke we should use them.

Leaf Guard
Solar Power
Battle Armor
Sniper
Dry Skin

 

[Aldaron]

sorry but I'm just laughing at the suggestion that Drought is less game breaking than SandStream...

Anyway, I support Pressure and definitely not Battle Armor...reasoning coming later.

 

[Atlas]

battle armor - obvious
inner focus - seems like the kind of pokemon that needs to maintain its concentration
rough skin - scaly, fiery lizard adorned with wood thats sure to splinter easily thanks to the heat
sturdy - obvious
white smoke - i can kinda see this happening, but maybe not

comedy marvel scale option...lol...

i dont like chlorophyll, leaf guard, solar power for the reason that it almost has no plant qualities

for those pushing for sniper, see magmorter. tha fact it has gun arms doesnt seem like a good reason for him to have it.

 

[Darkflagrance]

Argh, thanks to crap internet I screwed up massively in posting. Please ignore this post.

 

[Aki]

Originally i was rooting for the 2 solar abilities, but i've changed my mind.

Battle Armour: holy shit this thing is so broken it's not funny. On it's own, it allows no deviance from the calcs shown in the damage formula, and if we were to give it a +1 SpD move (IIRC there is one, but i forgot what it is >_<), It would allow mixed walling capabilities that make it totally viable for walling shit like Gengar.

Super Luck: As much as Sniper is a totally viable option, we can't forget this Son of a bitch trait. Making a OU worthy pokemon with Super Luck and a high critical hit STAB move lets it excel it the role we have made for it: Bulky Water/Ground/Steel killing. It fucks up CMCune to no end.

Sniper: blah blah kingdra counterpart shit

Rock Head: Don't really see how this thing gets it, because it really does not have a rock head per se (Don't spout that bagon shit, IIRC it has an explanation). Either way with a CB, Woodhammer/Flare Blitz/Double Edge/Head Smash/blah blah 120bp recoil moves This thing goes into Fsu mode.

 

[Darkflagrance]

*pst* Frogs aren't reptiles, they're amphibians.

???
I can't figure out whether this contradiction has gone unnoticed for all this time or whether it was edited afterwards by both to remove the original mistake, if there was one.
Gothic Togekiss was arguing that as a reptile, Woodman would have dry skin; however, the atual trait "Dry Skin" means that the pokemon normally has wet skin that becomes dry under the conditions of the battle.

Therefore, flavorwise it would not fit.

Anyways...

If we give Woodman a more dynamic ability than Battle Armor, such as Chlorophyll, people are bound to choose that ability over Battle Armor 90% of the time, because the effects of Battle Armor are passive and unseen. So, giving this Battle Armor seems to me akin to giving it essentially no ability in that slot.

Also, Inner Focus and Steadfast may fit, but they are essentially like having no ability.

Like i am said pretty much done on the Rock Head thing; people like it way more for stopping the recoil damage than it fitting the pokemon and I am fine with that no sense in arguing over small stuff.

So far the only trait that has been eliminated is Drought.Which most people feel is overpowered( i disagree on the op thing but admit the drought coming in be itself will be imbalanced).The game will turn into weather wars without set of measures to stop that,Pokemon would stop being fun every team is sunny,rainy,hail or stream team.

Flash Fire,Chlorophyll,Intimidate,Rock Head probably should be eliminated on the grounds that we have large amounts pokes with these abilities already.If we have different uncommon abilities that work and make sense on the poke we should use them.

Leaf Guard
Solar Power
Battle Armor
Sniper
Dry Skin

Why should we eliminate abilities that are "common"? If these abilities suit the pokemon, they should be available choices. Also, There isn't much with Rock Head that is really competitive in using it - at best you see BL rocks like Relicanth and Rampardos who actually take advantage of the trait, and occasionally Double-Edge Aerodactyl. I feel that Rock Head would be excellent on this if we also provided Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz.

I also like Leaf Guard, Chlorophyll, and Solar Power because they give this pokemon something to do in battle. However, Atlus is right; it does seem that this pokemon may lack the plant-stuff needed for Chlorophyll.

 

[X-Act]

Heatproof seems to make sense. It's made up of wood that somehow doesn't burn to ashes, after all.

White Smoke seems to make sense as well, looking at the sprite. It seems like surrounded by smoke coming out of the red hot wooden armor.

 

[Lord Gloom]

White Smoke seems to make sense as well, looking at the sprite. It seems like surrounded by smoke coming out of the red hot wooden armor.

I assume you mean the art, but regardless, there really isn't any smoke at all. There's just some flames coming from its various holes.

 

[Notty]

sorry but I'm just laughing at the suggestion that Drought is less game breaking than SandStream...

Without straying too far off-topic (for the record, I don't support Drought as an ability), how *is* Drought more game-breaking than Sandstream, when you look at the Pokemon that can take advantage of it?

Most of probably-currently-UU Grassers that get Chlorophyll are walled to hell, having to pick their own poison with Hidden Power (HP Fire means Heatran walls you forever, HP Ground makes you fair game for Bronzong and Skarmory, etc.)

I suppose the biggest case you could make is Scarf Typhlosion or something, but even he's beaten by random faster-Pokemon-with-Scarf or Focus Sashers, which become even more effective considering that no Sand Stream = no ruined Sashes.

Sand Stream completely ruins an item and a Pokemon simply by existing on the field (Focus Sash and Shedinja), and is a plague on non-Steel/Rock/Ground wall in the game, with a lot of them not seeing as much use as they might simply due to the fact that sand hurts them so damn much. Perma-Sand shatters Evasion Clause for two incredibly popular Pokemon, Gliscor and Garchomp, and gives T-Tar a silly amount of S.Def.

Not saying that it should be banned, of course, but when you compare the two, I find it difficult to believe that perma-sun is really that much more deadly than perma-sand.

...Yeah, okay, rant kinda drifted a little away from the subject.

Anyway.

I don't like Sniper. Bigass cannons != sniper rifle.

Battle Armor is a natch, of course. He's wearing armor, for pete's sake.

I like that Anger Point was mentioned, the contrast is similar to stuff like Lucario who gets Inner Focus (flinch immune) and Steadfast (speed boost when flinched).

Blaze is another good idea, but as that's limited to starters-only, I hesitate suggesting that we give it to a CAP Pokemon.

What about White Smoke? I bet those cannons give off plenty of smoke, and immunity to Intimidate strikes me as pretty useful.

EDIT: Darnit. X-Act beat me to the White Smoke mention....

 

[Mewfoo]

Just to throw some more ideas in there: (they may be far-fetched)
Magic Guard--Blocks status makes this a more potent sweeper
Reckless--Powers up those recoil moves
Serene Grace--More burns, and additional effects, such as flinching critical hits

I still like the Battle Armor and Sniper but I would argue that Reckless would be great for this sprite

 

[chaos]

Don't like any in the above post.

Flash Fire anyone?
Also for some reason this Pokemon seems to have Vital Spirit...

 

[tennisace]

Just a suggestion, maybe a possibility:
Infernal Impact: All SPECIAL ATTACKS used by this Pokemon has a 20% chance of Burn. Moves with chance of Burn already will have 20% add upon it (for example, Lava Plume's 30% chance of Burn will become 36%). It cannot burn other Fire Type pokemon. This ability does NOT affect PHYSICAL attacks or other non-attack moves.

Two things. One: i had no clue what you were saying with the math there until i realized that 6% is 20% of 30%. And two, this would be kinda broken but more like effect spore in that theres a chance of status. not gonna work imo.

 

[Mewfoo]

The only problem with vital spirit is it cuts tanking abilities: With it there is no rest.
I do like Flash fire seems like it would make him just a little too powerful.

 

[X-Act]

Well, yeah I meant artwork. My bad.

I still think White Smoke is cool. And don't worry Notty, other people had mentioned it even before me. ;)

 

[Helios]

Thinking about some made up abilities

Trigger Happy- Boosts speed each time a move is repeated.
Too good with Choice specs/band?

Entrench- Defense and special defense is boosted each turn this pokemon does not take damage.

I also support leaf guard and battle armour. I personally rather heap this pokemon in with blastoise rather than Octillery; he doesn't look the sort to do the 'BOOM HEADSHOT' thingy. Chlorophyll and solar power don't make sense; he's not a plant, he wears wooden armour. I'm sitting on the fence for drought (although it doesn't really make sense that much; how'd he make the sun shine harder... unless he was some sort of tribal shaman or something?... Which i doubt he is).