CAP 32 - Part 17 - Flavor Ability Discussion

[Quanyails]

CAP 32 So Far

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Please pay very close attention to Scizivire's posts during this thread and remain on topic. DO NOT begin by posting massive lists of abilities!

Some general rules for this discussion:

• Custom abilities are banned. No exceptions. Posts suggesting custom abilities will be deleted.
• There are ability banlists for the different stages of ability discussion. Posts suggesting banned abilities will be deleted.

The following abilities are banned from this discussion:

Fully Banned Abilities group

Arena Trap
As One
Aura Break
Bad Dreams
Battle Bond
Beads Of Ruin
Beast Boost *
Chilling Neigh
Commander
Dark Aura
Dauntless Shield
Delta Stream
Desolate Land
Disguise
Dragon's Maw
Fairy Aura
Flower Gift
Forecast
Full Metal Body
Grim Neigh
Gulp Missile
Hadron Engine
Hunger Switch
Ice Face
Illusion
Imposter
Intrepid Sword
Moody
Multitype
Neuroforce
Orichalcum Pulse
Power Construct
Primordial Sea
Prism Armor
Protosynthesis *
Quark Drive *
RKS System
Schooling
Shadow Shield
Shadow Tag
Shields Down
Soul Heart
Stance Change
Sword Of Ruin
Tablets Of Ruin
Teravolt
Transistor
Turboblaze
Unseen Fist
Vessel Of Ruin
Victory Star
Wonder Guard
Zen Mode
Zero To Hero

* These abilities will only be unbanned on a concept which is based around this ability - Such as an Ultra Beast or Paradox Pokemon

Soft Banned Abilities group

These abilities are banned by default and should not be discussed barring exceptional cases. If you believe one of these abilities should be considered, you can make a post trying to explain why an exception is warranted in this specific case and if both the TL and Ability Leader agree, it will be allowed. If the TLT disagrees with the unbanning proposal, they should be considered fully banned and should not be further discussed.

Bulletproof
Color Change*
Defeatist
Dry Skin
Earth Eater
Flash Fire
Fur Coat
Good As Gold
Gorilla Tactics
Huge Power
Ice Scales
Libero*
Levitate
Lightning Rod
Magic Bounce
Magic Guard
Magnet Pull
Mimicry*
Motor Drive
Parental Bond
Protean*
Pure Power
Purifying Salt
Regenerator
Sap Sipper
Slow Start
Stall
Storm Drain
Truant
Volt Absorb
Water Absorb
Water Bubble
Well Baked Body
Wind Rider

*These abilities can only be considered for an unban if the Ability stage is done before typing.

Secondary Ability ban group

Comatose
Drizzle
Drought
Electric Surge
Fluffy
Grassy Surge
Innards Out
Misty Surge
Prankster
Psychic Surge
Sand Stream
Snow Warning
Speed Boost
Stamina
Steam Engine
Supreme Overlord
Toxic Debris
Triage

 

[Scizivire]

Hi everyone, I'm back again in order to lead your Flavor Ability thread. CAP32 is almost done, so let's smoothly get this stage rolling in order to work towards a succesful 2.0 release!

So for this stage, there's really not much to wonder about, so I will allow ability submissions from the get-go. Before you submit though, keep in mind we're aiming to avoid any competitive implications for this stage, or at the very least not to overshadow either of our other abilities in Pixilate and Intimidate.

 

[Reviloja753]

Own Tempo is great because it’s a heart that’s beating to its own drum. Not much to say, it just really works. This is kind of the easy choice, but it’s for a good reason.

Guts is a stupid pun given its anatomical origin, and since it’s a Fire-type you’re left with a Flareon situation. A bit of a noob trap but I highly doubt you’d get very far with Guts.

Innards Out is a similarly gory idea, although this one might be riskier given our somewhat high HP stat. If it’s given the okay though, it’s quite fitting.

 

[Palosaks]

Alrighty then to get things going right out the gait Klutz is my personal idea, just by looking at the pokemon that get klutz you'll see that hemogoblin fits right in alongside the likes of loppuny, bewear, audino and swoobat, plus hemo doesn't even have hands to hold his items with, just lil' stumpies that open and close, there's also the angle of the vein tentacle getting in the way, plus I love the image of hemo just stumbling at every turn. Also casting support for White Smoke as hemo is literally producing white smoke in both the sprite and main art, Anticipation for the reasons mentioned by dex, and Oblivious as suggested by starfalcon for the reason they mentioned.

 

[dex]

Anticipation makes a lot of sense to me. Your heart beats faster when you're anticipating something exciting!

 

[BlorengeRhymes]

seeing what hasnt been posted yet, id like to suggest Healer, Liquid Ooze, and Vital Spirit all on the basis of being a heart. i think i like Healer best in that it has the strongest connection to Fairy of these and is literally useless in singles (and honestly doubles too)

 

[Ehmcee]

Hustle is a funny option that's been given seemingly at random for a few mons.
There's some overlap with the Togepi line in particular, as fairy types with average stats.

 

[Bice]

Surprised nobody has brought Pressure up yet, as it could be a play on high blood pressure as well as Hemogoblin's constantly stressed appearance.

 

[Tommaniacal]

Unnerve works on two levels; Hemogoblin is unnerving to look at, and since it's just a heart it has quite literally been un-nerved

 

[Ayecrusher King]

Right. Where to begin...
Official Ability Subs:
Electromorphosis: Pacemaker Cells, Hemogoblin also has a similar body shape with Bellibolt, which I can imagine it also being the reason why its stressed during battle and not idle (...c'mon, don't look so shocked). You could waste a moveslot fitting in an Electric move, but that would be extremely niche in exchange for lesser Fairy-Stab.
Flame Body: Heartburn? Yeah, we need a burning Ability, plus the egg hatching...
Thermal Exchange: Burn immunity (which we naturally have) & +1atk when hit by a Fire-type attack. I doubt people will be switching into Fire moves specifically. Flavour wise, overheat coping mechanism?
Aftermath: Lesser version of Inwards Out as suggested above.
Joke Subs:
Soul Heart
Thoughts on the rest thus far:
Hustle: This I worry. Squawkabilly - the closest example I can relate here - is held back by its movepool, the strongest of which inflicts recoil while the others are at 70 power. Togekiss was presumably balanced by its 50 atk, so that assessment is unbalanced.
Pressure/Anticipation/Unnerve: I'd be fine with this if we didn't already have Intimidiate, which we can explain using the same logic.
Klutz/Healer: Audino energy is good.
Own Tempo/Liquid Ooze/Vital Spirit: Better heart imagery.

 

[Palosaks]

While Pressure seems nice flavor wise it overlaps a bit too much with intimidate for my liking, the same goes for unnerve.

 

[Samirsin]

Forewarn could work, as in Spanish, Hunch could be translated as Corazonada (Corazón means heart), as in the ability to feel when something will happen.
White Smoke fits the cannons on Hemogoblin
I was going to suggest Filter as an ability, but then remember that the kidneys are the ones that do that. Maybe fits?
The heart also has an electrical conduction system, but lightning rod would be really weird, volt absorb wouldn't work unless CPR is done and othe abilities don't make sense.

 

[MrDollSteak]

One I haven't seen mentioned is Sticky Hold. A little slimy organ seems with tendrils fits with quite a few of the current users like Swalot and Accelgor. Otherwise I do like Pressure, Anticipation and Healer.

 

[Palosaks]

Hustle is one I don't like as it might be too much for a flavor ability, and the flavor is questionable to begin with, another one I'm unsure of is Thermal Exchange, hemo doesn't really need the extra boosting method, especially since it's fairly easy for it to take fire moves and the flavor is also questionable, Eletromorphosis is similarly questionable in terms of flavor and both of them being signatures makes me hesitant on them in the first place. Considering Sticky Hold was an ability talked about for both of hemo's regular abilities it being flavor seems questionable to me as well. Another one I could see as a niche is Filter which makes me not want to go with it, yet again it is one with questionable flavor, similarly is Forewarn, which while the pun in spanish works and is nice the pokemon company really only does japanese puns because their a japanese company (applin was the exception that occurred because gen 8 was in britain). Own Tempo also feels a little questionable, I can see what it's going for but I feel like other abilities have stronger flavor. Inners Out might also be one that's too much for just a flavor ability.

 

[Blue glass]

Moody or Stamina

Big Pecks because it's a huge heart.

 

[StarFalcon555]

One ability I haven't seen suggested for this fella yet is Oblivious.

Just because I think it would be extremely funny for the CAPmon based on the heart, which is associated with love, to be immune to Attract.

xdd

I also like Anticipation, Klutz, and Healer.

 

[HydrogenHydreigon]

I would like to voice support for Own Tempo, Innards Out and Anticipation

 

[Lectrys]

This post is to show and detail that Innards Out is too strong an ability to be a flavour ability.

At least in Gen 7 Pure Hackmons (and to a certain extent in Gen 9 Pure Hackmons), Innards Out is found on anything from Chansey (the ultimate in getting popped by weak physical attacks) to offensive Pokemon such as Mega Mewtwo Y and Lunala. These are dangerous Pokemon that Innards Out Hemogoblin (at 384 max. and current HP) can switch into and OHKO at the cost of itself, some despite normally getting checked by them:

Landorus-T
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Hemogoblin: 426-504 (110.9 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (note that Lando-T has 382 max. HP at best)

Offensive Great Tusk
252 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Hemogoblin: 474-558 (123.4 - 145.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (note that offensive Great Tusk has 371 max. HP)

Offensive Iron Treads
252 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Hemogoblin: 422-500 (109.8 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (note that offensive Iron Treads has 321 max. HP)

Volcanion
252+ SpA Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hemogoblin: 408-480 (106.2 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO (note that this Volcanion has 301 max. HP)

Specs Enamorus
252 SpA Choice Specs Enamorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0- SpD (0 SpD IVs) Hemogoblin: 398-470 (103.6 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (note that this Enamorus has 289 max. HP)

Specs Gholdengo
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (0 SpD IVs) Hemogoblin: 390-459 (101.5 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (note that this Gholdengo has 315 max. HP)

Offensive Garchomp
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Hemogoblin: 470-554 (122.3 - 144.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (note that offensive Garchomp has 357 max. HP)

Specs Walking Wake
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hemogoblin: 390-458 (101.5 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (note that this Walking Wake has 342 max. HP)

Combine that with Hemogoblin's access to the healing moves Moonlight and Bitter Blade in case it messes up and I cannot support Innards Out as a flavour ability.

 

[Zetalz]

This post is to show and detail that Innards Out is too strong an ability to be a flavour ability.

Ngl none of this stuff you've listed seems problematic. All sets like this do is rob you of having a mon that actually does something through out the game, while not even being as consistent as something like Pixilate Explosion sets that is shares space with (those are bad btw). OMs are also not particularly good examples to compare with standard metas because of how vastly different they are. The one you've cited is dominated by insane offensive threats to the point where strats like Innards Out become viable counter options, but this simply does not translate to standard play.

If you want to argue against Innards Out, it's better to argue it based on it's poor flavor instead imo. Unlike sea cucumbers, hearts don't exactly go around ejecting their insides at things all the time lol.

 

[memesketch]

I'd like to suggest Overcoat as an option, referring to the pericardium, the membrane that encases the heart and protects it against trauma (see: Sandstorm) and infection (see: powder moves).

Also a fan of Anticipation, Liquid Ooze, and White Smoke for the heart and design connections, and Oblivious and Klutz because Hemo is a silly little gooberish individual.

 

[Brown4Sides]

Gonna bring up Cute Charm because it has that vibe going on it. I also like Anticipation, Guts, and Own Tempo.

 

[sun_dew]

Given the stress aspect of Hemogoblin's design, Insomnia might be a good fit. Most other abilities to do with stress (Unnerve, Pressure) have to do with putting stress on the opponent, rather than the 'mon itself being stressed. I really like Guts, Sticky Hold, Liquid Ooze, and White Smoke as well.

And some thoughts on some other abilities mentioned here:
Anticipation: Good flavor, but I prefer Insomnia over it.
Electromorphosis: Doesn't feel justified really, the 'mon doesn't have much electric flavor.
Cute Charm: I get the idea behind it, and Hemo is definitely cute in a weird organ-y way, but a giant walking organ isn't exactly something I would call conventionally cute.
Innards Out: Not a huge fan of randomly giving out signature abilities for flavor abilities, though I do like it flavor-wise.

 

[Brown4Sides]

I don't love Innards Out, but the argument that we can't get it because it's a signature ability doesn't sit with me. CAP has historically not treated signature abilities like this. In fact, the past 2 CAPs have signature abilities as their flavor ability. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to get a signature ability.

 

[Scizivire]

Yo I wanted to drop in and clear some things up, as well as drop a preliminary slate. There's been quite a few abilities suggested so far, a few of which I want to address specifically:

Innards Out is on the secondary ability banlist and therefore will not be slated; it is kind of an insane ability which enables cheesy strats that we probably don't want to have to deal with.

Similarily, Hustle is a pretty competitively decent ability, even though it would probably not be used much in the face of Pixilate or Intimidate.

There doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm for signature abilities as whole, such as Thermal Exchange and Electromorphosis. Therefore I don't think I want to slate them as of this moment.

On the contrary, many other abilities in the thread have received some support both here and on Discord. It's a bit tough to narrow them down, but I think this is the slate I want to roll with:

• Own Tempo
• White Smoke
• Anticipation
• Oblivious
• Pressure
• Healer
• Klutz
• No Flavor Ability

That said this slate is still open to changes. Other than No Flavor Ability, any of these could be swapped out do let me know whether this is fine or what should be changed! I'll post the actual slate in roughly 24 hours.

 

[Quanyails]

I'm going to add support for Flame Body, since I think it plays well into the heartburn aspect of the design (and possibly "heartwarming" too depending on the interpretation).

Also supporting Own Tempo for the heartbeat theme.