CAP 32 - Part 9 - Stat Spread Submissions

[mark6870]

I also believe Binpin >Ama. even though 125 is a nice looking number Outspeeding Meow and Gren is nice for a 1v1 scenario, but in practivce that 1v1 won't come up very often. The special bulk is way more important than the extra 4 points in speed.

dunno what to think of brambane's. on the one hand, I think a spread that fast would benefit more from going special, like Binpin's. on the other hand, 109/111 is very solid speed/attack for what we're trying to do. all that being said, I'd say slate it.

I am also not a fan of Sciz's spread. No boomburst kills it for me, as I feel the draw special spread is Boomburst, otherwise Extreme Speed is just more powerful. Additionally, relying on Hvoice AND Espeed for revenge killing is also a bust. 76 Atk uninvested is just not powerful enough IMO to warrant a moveslot for espeed, unlike Tomm's.

I don't like Tomm's spread because it feels like a middle ground between Kenn's and Dex's spread, with both of their spreads having significant benefits. Kenn's is significantly weaker, but it is faster and with the massive HP, Double Edge can be used to be just as powerful. Dex has stronger bulk on the physical and special side as well as a much Stronger Espeed.

V&B I see the appeal of. Despite that, it's one of the better mixed attacking spreads and seems extremelyhard to switch into, and unlike sciz's spread it has good offenses on both sides so Espeed is a useful option in more than a couple scenarios.

If i were to pick two, id say slate brambane and V&B, and then replace Ama with Binpin

 

[Tommaniacal]

viol and bass 's spread is probably the only spread that really actualizes a truly bulky attacker CAP32. Some of the other spreads, like dex's for example, come close, but nothing really compares to 90/89/97 on the slate. This has a lot of synergy with the slow, mixed attacking approach the spread is going for. If you are making a mixed attacker, you want Boomburst and Extreme Speed. And if you have those two moves, you get a lot of value out of Tera Fairy, which gives us a more neutral defensive profile to take advantage of this spread's natural bulk. That is solid stat synergy with our generational mechanic, ability, and movepool, which is really cool. The spread is also flexible enough to run a couple different EV spreads and natures due to equal offenses. It can make team and meta calls in how much Speed to invest in and which offense to more heavily focus on. It is all-around a strong spread and should be slated.

Scizivire 's spread highlights best the strength of special Fire STAB. We have seen how Pokemon have used sun support and moves like Fire Blast and Overheat to overcome Fire resists, and this spread can do the same while having a Sylveon+ Hyper Voice. What I think gets glanced over is how this idea of strong, mid-speed Fire-type breaker on a sun team is actually inherently synergistic with Jumbao's own offensive profile. If you are using CAP32 to break down Fire and Fairy resists with its sun-boosted and Pixilated STABs through raw power, Jumbao is not only supporting you; CAP32 is clearly a path for Jumbao to become a mid-to-endgame threat with its own strong Moonblast. These two do share the same issue of being slower than 98 base Speed which leaves them exploitable by a handful of faster threats, but this is a solid gameplan that is best actualized by a Hyper Voice spread's higher offensive profile. It is a powerful breaking spread that is in-line with current teambuilding structures and should be slated.

Tommaniacal 's spread does something vary similar to Scizivire's but on the physical side. I think this is a bit weaker as a breaker since Pokemon can just Recover/Slack Off in the face of you killing yourself with Flare Blitz recoil, but the trade off is having access to ExtremeSpeed to help pick off some of those faster threats that annoy sun and other offense teams, like Dragapult. 88 Speed has a little more potential than just creeping Great Tusk; after a Rapid Spin (which the spread doesn't explicitly mention but would be worth consideration if it won) even an Adamant nature outspeeds Stratagem, and if you are somehow able to shoehorn yourself to +2 Speed you outspeed Booster Energy Iron Valiant (and Roaring Moon if you commit to Jolly.) I am a big fan of emergent design space, and the idea of being able to find ways to capitalize on these speed tiers later on in the project is quite enticing. It doesn't have the switching bulk afforded to some of the slower spreads, which is a reasonable trade-off for the Speed and power. It is a generally good spread that can swing more liberally with Double-Edge due to its Speed tier and should be slated.

Brambane 's (lol self-tag) spread focuses on the advantage of diverse Speed control options. A base 95 Double-Edge outdamages a base 130 Extreme Speed, so if you want to hit with your strong Fairy moves this spread can have it both ways. Against the myriad of things you outspeed you get more damage, while the faster things mostly take SE damage for Extreme Speed anyways and are easy to put within KO range. It trades this dual approach to offensive threats by having just lower breaking power, instead having to rely more on pivoting moves or support like Spikes or Knock Off for progress into balance teams. It also can dip into the field of Fire-type sun attackers thanks to its naturally high Speed. This spread focuses on the advantage of speed control in teambuilding in a flexible and diverse way and should be slated.

So if all four of them should be slated, just slate them all.

This concept is a stats-focused concept. The actualization of what we wanted to achieve from all the previous stages is here; this is the big cheese. It is not a rule of process to only slate eight spreads, and if there was ever a concept and process to have a larger stats slate, it would 100% be this one. Every spread brings its own strengths to the table with the same tools available, which I think is highly indicative of a successful prelude to this point. I do not believe any of these slates would fail us when it comes to a finished product, so that is also a non-issue here. There is marginal overlap between the ten spreads, so I do not see any reason to not include all the spreads unless we want to somehow manipulate voter patterns in a way I cannot see, which itself would almost certainly be unethical anyways.

Just wanted to quickly point out that my spread is built around Heat Crash, not Flare Blitz. That said you make good points about potential with Rapid Spin, I originally had it as one of my optional moves along with Taunt but removed it for fear of move bloat lol

 

[memesketch]

To echo some of the sentiments here, I'm also a big fan of Binpin's spread. I feel that it creates more realistic limits in our interactions compared to Amamama's. The slight decrease in Speed and Special Attack makes it that much easier to wall us and keep us in check with mons like Meowscarada and Greninja (imo if we go full Boomburst bot, these are more than fair limitations), and the increase in special bulk makes it easier to find opportunities to bring us in and check threats like Valiant and Jumbao.

Also really, really like the direction Brambane went. It strikes me as something of a fully physically-oriented and more pragmatic take on the concept I was aiming for in my spread – maximizing versatility. A very fast Espeed user is something we hadn't really considered, but it creates an avenue to go all in with the anti-offense route to force switches as consistently as possible, but as Brambane elaborates, it can do a lot more. Definitely one of my favorites, would love to see it on the slate.

 

[quziel]

Thanks for all the feedback. I've swapped out Ama's and Binpin's spreads, and upgraded Brambane's and Viol and Bass's spreads up to full slate. WIth all that said:

Here is my Slate

Explosion Badger

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe		PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
75	76	60	105	84	90		79.37	106.37	64.70	84.71	458.34

Optional Defining Moves: Boomburst, Knock Off, Parting Shot, Spikes

This is probably the scariest spread to actually switch into of any submitted so far. 105 Special Attack Boomburst, at this speed tier is downright a bit terrifying. That said, 90 Speed is still only just good, and not great, and the bulk, especially on the physical side definitely implies that you'll need a lot of Volt-Turn support to really leverage this spread's upsides.

Wulfanator

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe		PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
74	121	55	79	106	75		104.14	77.49	60.16	101.97	474.81

Optional Defining Moves: Bitter Blade

Wulf has submitted nerfed Ceruledge stats, featuring Bitter Blade, great special bulk, and the potential to just live forever by healing. While Ceruledge obviously hits a bit harder, at a faster speed tier, we have an actual secondary STAB move to abuse in Espeed. Compared to the rest of our slate, Wulf's spread has exceptional special bulk, getting really close to the limit, letting us definitely think about switching into a lot of walls that other spreads may struggle with. That said, its physical bulk really isn't amazing.

Brambane

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe		PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
70	95	60	50	85	127		112.82	73.07	62.49	82.64	473.89

Optional Defining Moves: Heat Crash (100 BP vs Clodsire & Iron Treads), Knock Off, Parting Shot, Spikes, Taunt, Will-o-Wisp

Brambane's spread goes after another low stats but high impact mon from mons history, Talonflame. While it does have a lower attack than any other physical spread, it has a high enough speed that you can start to force out basically every other offensive mon with either of your stabs, instead of relying purely on Espeed to do so. Beyond that its speed stat is actually so high that you can still outrun Timid Iron Moth even with an Adamant nature.

Dex

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe		PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
80	130	70	50	90	60		98.19	51.28	75.46	92.64	468.67

Optional Defining Moves: Bitter Blade, Knock Off, Taunt

During stat limits, I was persuaded to raise the ceiling for Attack from 125 to 130, as letting us revenge kill literally every single Fairy weak sweeper in the tier was something a lot of folks thought would be interesting. Dex's spread uses that fact to force a guaranteed KO in Bax, even without needing Tera, Band, or any chip. Outside of that, its a relatively slow spread, reminiscient of Scizor, with functional but not great bulk. This definitely outlines one edge of our design space.

Lasen

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe		PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
75	55	109	80	50	111		71.22	98.29	105.19	56.96	454.89

Optional Defining Moves: Boomburst, Torch Song, Thunderbolt

Torch Song was brought up fairly often during Defining Moves, as a very interesting hybrid between usable Fire STAB, and also a potential sweeping option. Lasen's spread definitely evokes Serperior, in that it can potentially use that hybrid move to create a lot of space. That said, it also has a very noted weakness in its spdef, balancing out its pretty great physdef. This is a very unique route from the rest of the field, and would give us a very interesting mon.

Kenn

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe		PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
103	103	55	40	58	103		111.96	59.54	72.18	75.43	474.92

Optional Defining Moves: Heat Crash (80 BP vs Jumbao), Knock Off, Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, Spikes

Unlike most of the rest of the physical attacking spreads, Kenn's submission has little doubt that it would run both Espeed, and Double Edge. Its attack is just at the point where you start OHKO'ing valiant with Espeed, and while this is lower than the rest of the slated physical spreads, the ability to run Edge, thanks to a high HP and speed stat definitely means that its not going to be hitting that much weaker than its competition.

Viol and Bass

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe		PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
90	99	89	99	97	55		75.56	79.61	97.78	105.00	476.63

Optional Defining Moves: Boomburst, Knock Off, Spikes, Parting Shot, 50% Recovery

One of the ideas that's been thrown around a lot is the fantasy of Espeed + Boomburst. Of all the spreads on the slate, I think Viol and Bass's spread is most capable of running this combo regularly, as it has high enough special attack to make Boomburst into a proper nuke of a move, and low enough speed that it Extreme Speed will provide intense utility for it. It also has the highest overall bulk of any spread on the slate, giving it a very unique playstyle among the others slated.

Binacle Pinnacle

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe		PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
70	61	55	80	113	121		78.94	100.77	58.50	104.71	461.86

Optional Defining Moves: Boomburst, Knock Off, Will-o-Wisp, 50% Recovery, Stealth Rock, Spikes, U-Turn

One of the examples of a medium stat -Ate abuser identified during Stat limit discussion was Noivern, and Binpin's spread matches, albeit at a lower overall power level, its combo of high speed, and solid special attack. This spread also nearly maxes out the special tankiness limit for Boomburst spreads, allowing it to take a single Earth Power from Equlibra, making its inability to heavily Equlibra not nearly as impactful when it can't be OHKO'd back.

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As a reminder, defining moves being listed above does not mean that they will be given during the movepool stage, rather that the stat spread creator has identified them as reasons that their spread may be weaker than its competition in some area, or as being important for calculations done when creating the stat spread.


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Here are the spreads in table form for easy comparison:

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe		PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR		User
75	76	60	105	84	90		79.37	106.37	64.70	84.71	458.34		Explosion Badger
74	121	55	79	106	75		104.14	77.49	60.16	101.97	474.81		Wulfanator
70	95	60	50	85	127		112.82	73.07	62.49	82.64	473.89		Brambane
80	130	70	50	90	60		98.19	51.28	75.46	92.64	468.67		dex
75	55	109	80	50	111		71.22	98.29	105.19	56.96	454.89		Lasen
103	103	55	40	58	103		111.96	59.54	72.18	75.43	474.92		kennukem
90	99	89	99	97	55		75.56	79.61	97.78	105.00	476.63		viol and bass
70	61	55	80	113	121		78.94	100.77	58.50	104.71	461.86		Binacle Pinnacle

 

[spoo]

Optimal lineup of spreads from quziel. No changes from me. GO TEAM