CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 3 (Secondary Typing Poll 2 )

[1059860]

How does Poison/Dragon learn Gravity or Trick Room? It doesn't even make sense.

 

[tennisace]

I'll answer your question with a question of my own: How does Wooper get Focus Punch?

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

However, I think your attack stats are way too high GT. PURE utility is the concept. It needs much lower attack.

First off, it's suppose to be a joke about him turning out to be a defensive Garchomp and thus I swapped it's attack and defensive around. Second, It doesn't have to have Umbreon-like attack stats to still be an utility. Third, you want a OU verison of Umbreon?

After much thinking, I decided to go with Poison/Electric instead. Just feel like it's the best type combo at the moment.

 

[Blln]

Going Dragon, for all the reasons already mentioned, namely some awesome resistances, but enough common weaknesses to keep it balanced. Dragons having that whole mystic quality about them will make most support moves pretty easy to justify, and Dragon is a cool STAB to have access too, which makes up for Poison being so crappy. I also think Poison / Dragon could yield some awesome artwork.

 

[X_Presumptuous]

I'm going to wait a bit before voting, but I'm sure as anything that Dragon is definately not going to be where my vote goes.

As people have already said, its resistances aren't worth much. Jonathan outlined why pretty well already.
As for those who want bigger movepools, Dragon doesn't actually add much except for maybe Magic Coat and Safeguard. It adds Wish, but Wish can be added easily by making it cute/small.
If you want a big movepool, Dark gives you a lot more excuses for support options ( not to mention the Dark resistance for TR we supposedly wanted ).
As for good art, that might not even happen with this typing; I don't think Wyverii and I are the only ones to feel like yawning at the thought of Dragon #567892, and bad things happen when artists get bored, haha.

I'll probably vote either NST, Dark or Ground. I'd be happy if any of those won.

 

[Elevator Music]

Changing my vote to Ground. I'll edit my other post.

Not because of any of the arguments here. It's still weak to Ground/Ice/Psychic.

I'm keeping to myself about it.

 

[Deucalion2]

Ground. I'm not actually band-wagoning. I voted Ground in the other thread too.

 

[darkie]

I really, really, really like Electric, but I'm pretty sure voting that would be in vain. Instead, I'm going to vote Dragon because I would prefer Dragon over Dark or Ground. Mekkah's post kind of veered me away from Electric, and browsing through the thread, I realized that Electric isn't going to win. :( RIP Battery

 

[DougJustDoug]

I'm debating between Electric and Dragon. Frankly, I don't like either of them very much. But, I've narrowed it down to those two.

Here is a list of the top 25 pokemon on the Shoddy usage chart. I've done a quick analysis on each one to determine if Dragon or Electic would be a preferable type matchup against each one. For those of you that don't want read the wall of text that follows. Here's my tally:

Electric is advantageous against 15 of 25
Dragon is advantageous against 6 of 25
4 of them are even

I still haven't voted yet. But, after this breakdown, I'm seriously leaning toward Electric.

------------------------------------------------

1 Garchomp
Either type is screwed against Chomp. But, Dragon at least can hit Chomp SE. And Chomp is immune to Electric.
Advantage: Dragon

2 Gengar
Electric and Dragon are neutral to Gengar's Shadow Ball, and both resist Gengar's Tbolts. Attack-wise, both hit Gengar neutral. Electric movepool and Dragon movepool are a wash against Gengar.
Advantage: Even

3 Blissey
No typing advantages on offense or defense. Lots of Blisseys carry Ice Beam.
Advantage: Electric

4 Gyarados
Gyarados can screw either type with EQ. However, many Gyar run Ice Fang, instead. Some carry Stone Edge. When facing Stone Edge and Ice Fang versions, Gyar runs hard from an Electric.
Advantage: Electric

5 Tyranitar
All TTars will shit all over this pokemon with EQ. Both Electric and Dragon are neutral offensively and defensively.
Advantage: Even

6 Bronzong
Both types are hosed by Zongs with a Psychic move or EQ. Electric resists Gyro Ball versions, which are common. Electric hits Zong neutral, while Dragon is resisted by the steel bell.
Advantage: Electric

7 Lucario
Lucario resists Dragon attacks. Electric hits it neutral. Electric resists the occasional Bullet Punching Luke.
Advantage: Electric

8 Heatran
All Earth Power Heatrans (which is common) will own this thing. Dragon resists Heatran's fire attacks. Many Heatran carry Dragon Pulse or HP Ice specifically to allow it to switch in on Dragons and threaten. Electric hits Heatran neutral, Dragon is resisted. Electric resists Heatran Steel attacks, but those are very rare.
Advantage: Even

9 Infernape
Dragon completely walls Infernape. Electric is neutral.
Advantage: Dragon

10 Salamence
Dragon hits Mence SE, but is hit SE in return. Electric is neutral offensively, and defensively resists Mence's Flying STAB, which is rarely used in general, but more used on the CAP server though.
Advantage: Electric

11 Metagross
All Metas will own this thing with Zen Headbutt (not unheard of on the CAP server) and EQ. Electric resists Meta's steel attacks, which are common anyway, but even more on CAP, where Bullet Punch Meta is a common Syclant-killer. Electric hits Meta neutral, Dragon is resisted.
Advantage: Electric

12 Starmie
Psychic Starmie owns either type. Surf Starmie is resisted by Dragon. Ice Beam Starmie is a common Dragon-killer. T-Bolt Starmie, commonly used for Gyar, is resisted by Electric. Electric hits Starmie SE.
Advantage: Electric

13 Gliscor
Glicor kills both with EQ, which is on every Gliscor in existence. Gliscor is immume to Electric. Electric resists Hera-killer Aerial Aces. Dragon is neutral all around.
Advantage: Dragon

14 Celebi
Psychic Celebi kills both. Celebi resists Electric. Dragon resists Celebi Grass Knots.
Advantage: Dragon

15 Swampert
Swampert pounds both with EQ. Pert is immune to Electric. Dragon resists Swampert's Water STAB, and hits Swampert neutral.
Advantage: Dragon

16 Weavile
Weavile slaughters Dragons with Ice moves. Vile is neutral all around with Electric.
Advantage: Electric

17 Skarmory
Skarmory is one of the most common Dragon switchins. Electric resists both of Skarmory's STABs, and hits Skarm super-effective.
Advantage: Electric

18 Forretress
EQ Forry hurts both versions. Forry is commonly used to resist Dragon attacks. Electric resists the common Forry Gyro Ball, and hits back neutral.
Advantage: Electric

19 Heracross
EQ Hera hurts both versions. Both are neutral offensively and defensively against Hera's typing and other common moves.
Advantage: Even

20 Vaporeon
Dragon resists Vappy's water attacks. Electric hits Vappy SE. Vappy commonly carries Ice Beam which owns Dragons. Vappy also commonly uses HP-Electric, which is resisted by both.
Advantage: Electric

21 Zapdos
Electric resists both of Zapdos STABs. Dragon resists only Electric. Zappy commonly carries HP-Ice which hurts Dragon. Dragon resists occassional Swampert-killing HP-Grass versions. Electric and Dragon both hit Zapdos neutral.
Advantage: Electric

22 Azelf
Psychic hurts both versions. Dragon resists common Flamethrowers and Grass Knots from Azelf. Both are neutral offensively.
Advantage: Dragon

23 Togekiss
Electric resists the omnipresent Air Slash. Electric also hits back SE. Dragon is neutral both ways.
Advantage: Electric

24 Cresselia
Psychic Cressy owns both. Ice Beam Cressy is common and hurts Dragon. Charge Beam Cressy, also common, is resisted by both. Both types hit Cressy neutral.
Advantage: Electric

25 Magnezone
Both types resist Magnezone's Electric moves. Electric resists the occasional Flash Cannon. HP-Ice is bog-standard on Magnezone, just for Dragon-killing.
Advantage: Electric

 

[Edge Of Pain]

Poison/Dragon

I would love to see a fully evolved part Dragon-type Pokemon which still keeps all of its Dragon resistances. (All other fully evolved Dragon Pokemon lose some of their pure Dragon resistances.) Levitate would kind of make sense, because it flies. The move pool won't be a complete mess up, because Poison Fang will go perfect with this type. Toxic, Dragon Dance, Dragon Claw, and Poison Fang are obvious moves. The typing also makes it bulky in Defense (Poison) and HP (Dragon) and a little bit of Attack (Dragon). Let's not forget egg moves! *coughs* Wish.

Result:
Bulky physically and HP wise, decent moveset, and a special ability that kind of makes sense.

 

[Plus]

Dragon

Ok, let's face it. I just love that fire/grass/water resistance that Dragon has to offer. Also, I'd love to see other bulky dragons like Altaria that work in OU. It just seems like an amazing concept. Ground is cool too, but I think we've had enough physical walls in OU that are ground. *coughHippowdoncough*

 

[latinoheat]

No one said it had to be physical, water resistance is basically irrelevant seen as just about every water carries an ice move.

 

[Edge Of Pain]

No one said it had to be physical, water resistance is basically irrelevant seen as just about every water carries an ice move.

Of course it does not have to be physical. It just suites it. I cannot see a special Dragon, apart from Palkia, possibly Dialga, and possibly Rayquaza.

 

[iamnotiangibson]

I say Poison/Ground.

For resistance to Stealth Rock and absorption of Toxic Spikes. Quite a few good resistances. It can also have a handful of good STAB moves. I would've prefered that it wasn't poison, but it's too late for that now.

 

[TAY]

For all the Dragon voters -- Is anyone concerned at all that we would make a pokemon weak to Ice?

With all the Garchomp abuse out there -- the only attacking type you are GUARANTEED to face in ABUNDANCE is Ice. I personally carry at least three Ice moves on my teams, just because of the number of threats that require Ice to dispose of them. I've heard of some people packing an Ice move on 5 out of their 6 pokemon.

The metagame right now is very heavily geared to handle Dragons. Because Garchomp is such an uber badass -- it doesn't matter and people use Chomp anyway.

Yes, you can point to the resistances of Poison/Dragon and it looks pretty good. It can come in on lots of moves, but can it come in on many actual pokemon? How many pokemon don't carry an ice move or a ground move? Not many. Sure you can switch in on a move, but if the opponent is still packing an SE move in return, that's not a great switch. If they predict you, you're fucked anyway.

My point is this -- in the current metagame, do you really think a utility pokemon that is weak to ice and ground, will get a chance to set up anything useful for the team? I'm worried about that. It's going to be weak to Ground, no matter what. Thank you, Poison. But, let's not compound it by making it weak to Ice as well. We cannot honestly think we can make a utility poke that is weak to the two most spammed attacking types in the metagame.

This is exactly why I want to make it Poison/Dragon. It may function terribly against Garchomp and Bulky waters and Syclant, but it provides a great switch-in to Revenankh (!!!) and Pyroak, and any utility/wall pokemon in the game. I'm not concerned about making it weaker than the previous CaP's (though it's pretty unlikely that this will be unplayable), I just want something cool that serves a unique role in the metagame and changes the way the other CaP's are used. "Common weaknesses" was one of the reasons I citied in both of my pro-Dragon posts!

 

[tennisace]

Poison/Dragon

I would love to see a fully evolved part Dragon-type Pokemon which still keeps all of its Dragon resistances. (All other fully evolved Dragon Pokemon lose some of their pure Dragon resistances.) Levitate would kind of make sense, because it flies. The move pool won't be a complete mess up, because Poison Fang will go perfect with this type. Toxic, Dragon Dance, Dragon Claw, and Poison Fang are obvious moves. The typing also makes it bulky in Defense (Poison) and HP (Dragon) and a little bit of Attack (Dragon). Let's not forget egg moves! *coughs* Wish.

Result:
Bulky physically and HP wise, decent moveset, and a special ability that kind of makes sense.

Jumping ahead much?

 

[latinoheat]

half the types here should be good switch ins to Revenankh

 

[UberMunch]

I am voting Dragon.

Regaurdless of the advantages ground may have, the Nidos can already fill that role. They both have OU viable sets... Queen is defensive and already provides great utility with her entry havard prowess. And King is there for those that want this pokemon to be able to deal out damage (though they both can put a dent with the right set).

I just don't see the reason to make them obsolete. If anything maybe creating a dragon here will lead to more Nido use...

 

[AJC]

Dragon i already stated my reasons in the last typing polls and i really want to see a Dragon that truely supports instead of sweeps..or sucks like altaria

 

[aflorez0]

I see a lot of potential with poison/ground, many things it can do as far as thunderwave killer, and toxic absorb, plus stealth block and such, but the many weaknesses are really discouraging. Dont get me wrong, plenty of potential but this thing also need to be able to set up. Ground was going to be my choice, and a posion/dragon sounds good aswell (Comodo Dragon is what I call it)... but... nothing beats

NO TYPING

It can stand alone, set up its nasty little tricks and go out with a boom. This thing needs to take hits TO set up. Many neutral hits, but 2 weaknesses (which are fairly easy to guess), some good stats and moves, and we have ourselves a Utility.

so NO TYPING for me

 

[Skyshroud]

Ok, I've decided to vote Poison/Ground.

Latinoheat's post was extremely convincing, and as much as I like the Nidos, they still might have their own niches if we build this well. I'm sure the artists can come up with something just as cool. If not, oh well, they are still VERY usable in UU anyway.

Also, I'd like to see what I can do personally as far as art for a poison ground.

 

[X_Presumptuous]

OK, I'm finally deciding Ground as well.

For reasons already stated. And because I really don't like Dragon. At least Ground's resistances are worth something.

The Nidos will be fine. This thing will have a different niche. Only Nidoqueen comes close to being Utility, and she mainly just TSes. She's outclassed by Forry in OU in that department, anyways.

 

[jomangs]

My personal vote is for electric.
The support moves are pretty good and the weaknesses aren`t too hard to handle.

 

[Mr Escalator]

I do like the comeback Ground has put up, but I'm a little upset on how Dark's fairing. Some point's you probably want to consider:

-Taunt: Any ghost or psychic taunters, Gallade comes to mind, are threatened by the presence of this Dark utility. This typing offers resistance towards Dark types. Some problem taunters would Gyarados, yet this poke would fare better versus gyarados than it's ice-weak Dragon/Ground counterparts. Skarm would be another, I suppose, but I don't expect the Dragon Utility to do much.

-Rapid Spin: This type combination serves for an Anti Ghost Rapid Spinner quite well. Resistant to Dark and Ghost, while it threatens any switch-ins with Dark STAB.

-Non-Dark weak: One of the main things that was brought up in the Pure Utility description was that this should be Non-Dark weak. Trick Room and Perish Song were specifically mentioned, though Light Screen and Reflect are usually run on psychic types, I think. This goes a step further and resists Dark.

The weakness on both Ground on Dragon is really bad, I think. Many water types carry icebeam, and many grass types carry things like HP Ice for coverage (Zapdos does this too). Theres an overabundance of Ice, and this hurts a lot of what this Utility poke should be able to stay in on. This pokemon should be able to take a few hits for neutral damage, but the presence of Ice hurts the lasting ability of Dragon/Ground unless you want to make it's stats big enough to compensate. I don't think the dragon variant would be harder pressed to find a switch in and be able to stay there long enough to lay down the moves it's geared towards.

No Secondary gives this pokemon some pretty good neutrality, and so does Dark. EQ is the only threat that this set would see, and it's definitely more workable than an Ice weakness.

Dragon is something I really want to steer away from. Ground is something I would really not mind. Electric and No Secondary are also pretty good choices. Dark is what I really want, but I don't think it's going to win, despite the positives that come with being non-dark weak.

Immunity to entry hazards is pretty cool sounding, but the weakness makes it not stay in too long. Magic Guard could be considered to remedy this for the other types.

Just no dragon :c

 

[Thunderpup]

Minimizing super effective attacks to a single 2x weakness, and 4 resistances and an immunity looks good, as well as tons of dark support with taunt, knock off, and other moves, on top of non-type based support moves (aromatherapy, sunny day, light screen, reflect, etc.) make Poison/Dark incredibly appealing to me.

Also, with the idea of ariados evolving, perish trapping with spider web and baton pass is incredible on a support pokemon. It can trap, set up something for your team, recover, perish song, recover, then baton pass out.