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CAP 6 CAP 6 - Part 1 - Concept Poll 1
- Thread starter darkie
- Start date
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My thoughts on the more popular ideas
First off all I think that the concept should give a clear direction, something like "decentraliser" is just a goal and one that a large majority of the CaP voters want from every project to some extent. Also the "top 5" of OU are different from CaP and could result in the masses outvoting those who know CaP's meta if thats the specific goal.
IMO it is a little too "open".
Physical Blissey... It seems like a kinda good idea, but I think that having a full stop to a large majority of Physical sweepers may shift the metagame too far towards stall and the large metagame change that will result may make it much harder for new players to learn. For these reasons I will not vote for LN's idea.
SoT's Great Wall and Sikha's Great Tank are both interesting propositions but as has been stated by tennis and other the CaP meta is not overly offencive. Also we have Pyroak people, its a BRILLIANT wall outside of sandstorm.
Out of the most popular options I probably like Mekkah's idea best. It gives a clear and specified goal that still leaves a very large amount of room for the other polls.
I also quite like Calad's, GT's and Tusk's.
But my choice is to vote for my own proposition: eric the espeon's Anti Switch
I think that this explains it best:
First off all I think that the concept should give a clear direction, something like "decentraliser" is just a goal and one that a large majority of the CaP voters want from every project to some extent. Also the "top 5" of OU are different from CaP and could result in the masses outvoting those who know CaP's meta if thats the specific goal.
IMO it is a little too "open".
Physical Blissey... It seems like a kinda good idea, but I think that having a full stop to a large majority of Physical sweepers may shift the metagame too far towards stall and the large metagame change that will result may make it much harder for new players to learn. For these reasons I will not vote for LN's idea.
SoT's Great Wall and Sikha's Great Tank are both interesting propositions but as has been stated by tennis and other the CaP meta is not overly offencive. Also we have Pyroak people, its a BRILLIANT wall outside of sandstorm.
Out of the most popular options I probably like Mekkah's idea best. It gives a clear and specified goal that still leaves a very large amount of room for the other polls.
I also quite like Calad's, GT's and Tusk's.
But my choice is to vote for my own proposition: eric the espeon's Anti Switch
I think that this explains it best:
Just a few thoughts:
I see a lot of people arguing about what is going to help the metagame, but with the general broadness of these concepts, I believe every one of them has that potential. I also think many of them are able to fit Hyra's idea in a more specific way; for example, whats stopping us from making sikh's great tank of china into some powerful and defensive fire/ground zapdos/heatran/scizor counter type thing?
Also what exactly do we want for the metagame? To shift the balance of power it seems from what people are voting and saying. I'm going to pick on Hyra's idea again, because I don't think it'll be as decentralizing as you all think. Let's say we make a pokemon that counters some of the top threats, I think it's probably then going to become a top used pokemon. But one counter for these top used pokemon isn't going to stop people from using them I doubt; instead I think another pokemon or a couple pokemon's usages will rise in light of the new pokemon so everyone's scizor/heatran/whatever can sweep away, and will just result in a greater ring of centralization. As for Ness's physical Blissey, maybe there'll be a rise in stall teams, but in response maybe there'll also be a rise in offensive teams with wall breakers like infernape that can take on both great walls. I like Mekkah's idea because I think it'll shift some of the unpredictability of the metagame though not add to some of the bog standards either. I'm by no means an expert on pokemon metagames but hopefully this might raise a little interesting discussion.
I see a lot of people arguing about what is going to help the metagame, but with the general broadness of these concepts, I believe every one of them has that potential. I also think many of them are able to fit Hyra's idea in a more specific way; for example, whats stopping us from making sikh's great tank of china into some powerful and defensive fire/ground zapdos/heatran/scizor counter type thing?
Also what exactly do we want for the metagame? To shift the balance of power it seems from what people are voting and saying. I'm going to pick on Hyra's idea again, because I don't think it'll be as decentralizing as you all think. Let's say we make a pokemon that counters some of the top threats, I think it's probably then going to become a top used pokemon. But one counter for these top used pokemon isn't going to stop people from using them I doubt; instead I think another pokemon or a couple pokemon's usages will rise in light of the new pokemon so everyone's scizor/heatran/whatever can sweep away, and will just result in a greater ring of centralization. As for Ness's physical Blissey, maybe there'll be a rise in stall teams, but in response maybe there'll also be a rise in offensive teams with wall breakers like infernape that can take on both great walls. I like Mekkah's idea because I think it'll shift some of the unpredictability of the metagame though not add to some of the bog standards either. I'm by no means an expert on pokemon metagames but hopefully this might raise a little interesting discussion.
TehPiplupMan's Tier-Tossup
I'm pretty sick of Heatran and Scizor. Having a pokemon that is most easily counterable by UU (or BL) pokemon would be a great way to make the metagame more unpredictable. ATM, I almost always see a Heatran or Scizor (or both) on my opponent's team.
I'm pretty sick of Heatran and Scizor. Having a pokemon that is most easily counterable by UU (or BL) pokemon would be a great way to make the metagame more unpredictable. ATM, I almost always see a Heatran or Scizor (or both) on my opponent's team.
Sikh Assasin's Great Tank of China
I say three words to you all. VOTE FOR IT
I say three words to you all. VOTE FOR IT
BEEJ's Anti-stat up
no one can predict the effect it has, that's been true of every single cap project.
we just want to map the effect of a cap that has clearcut intentions of checking top threats. we want to see "how well we can do" at being explicitly metagame centric. this is a test for the community. i dont think anyone is disillusioned enough to think that this will "fix the metagame"
the thing is we can check pokemon in more ways that we can wall them, and i think hyra's gives us the most creativity and the most explicity and metagame centric goal.
great tank of china is just another "shot in the dark" as far as i'm concerned
I was going to consider voting for Hyra's concept, but I think latino makes a rather important point in his post regarding our metagame. Decentralizing the CAP metagame is NOT the same as decentralizing DPP OU.
Also agreeing with Mr_Goodbar here that many of the concepts have the potential to be a "decentralizer" only more specific.
For these reasons, I am going to vote for Beej's Anti Stat-Up.
Yea I don't presume to know what will happen, that's just my speculation, but it is specifically called "decentralizer" and I do think a lot of people are jumping to the conclusion that it will decentralize the metagame, which I have doubts about. But to see in action how such a pokemon affects the metagame, I can see exactly why you'd choose it.
Hyra's Decentralizer seems like the best option out of these to me. It has a specific effect for the metagame, and it's open-ended enough to allow other concepts.
Why are you so surprised you cannot predict the end result of a created pokemon when there are so many different variables involved - typing, ability, movepool etc. How often is just one of these vastly change a pokemon - if Mence was Dragon/Ground it would have probably been banned along with Garchomp.
I agree with Bass and the people he quoted. I would like to think that just because a concept called "metagame fixer" that it won't help the metagame at all. I would like to think that all CAP projects have a competitive focus and role to play (albeit not well defined early on). The CAP project is not just us attempting to be the metagame police but also to genuinely playtest and experiment and open up new strategies - that can only lead to a more competitive and fresher metagame. Don't discount a concept at face value for such a reason.
For now I am abstaining of voting although I hope I will make my mind up tomorrow.
I really do not want to sidetrack the whole process etc and go OT, but I have said this before but I think it would be useful to have a niche discussion after the concept poll so we don't have people complaining about lack of metagame focus within the concept
you're right, it's not really worth sidetracking over this.
it's really that my own interests lie with hyra's concept/approach to a new project. we've never taken such an approach and it really leaves the niche open like you said. i realize it's not the purpose of cap to constantly reglate/stabilize it's metagame and i also know that we can't expect a perfect solution, especially since cap's metagame doesn't really have a stable equilibrium to work off of. this doesnt deter me though, and im genuinely interested in where we can go with hyra's approach.
i don't mean to discount any ideas, i just think "let's try to stabilize our metagame" is a more interesting approach to "let's make an all purpose wall". the proof of this, to me, is that alot of people are already polljumping and probably have an idea of what typing they want to give this. not that there's a whole lot wrong with that.
it's really that my own interests lie with hyra's concept/approach to a new project. we've never taken such an approach and it really leaves the niche open like you said. i realize it's not the purpose of cap to constantly reglate/stabilize it's metagame and i also know that we can't expect a perfect solution, especially since cap's metagame doesn't really have a stable equilibrium to work off of. this doesnt deter me though, and im genuinely interested in where we can go with hyra's approach.
i don't mean to discount any ideas, i just think "let's try to stabilize our metagame" is a more interesting approach to "let's make an all purpose wall". the proof of this, to me, is that alot of people are already polljumping and probably have an idea of what typing they want to give this. not that there's a whole lot wrong with that.
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