CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 1 - Concept Poll 3

[Atlas]

voted for kingdra of the snow since its the only 2 which is an actual concept. i mean once the ability is chosen for neglected ability, you can pretty much call it done and move on to the next cap since that was the whole concept.

im not too fond of kingdra of the snow either though. kingdra is a pokemon with average stats that becomes great with rain. the rain doubles his speed and boosts his water attacks. what does hail do? the only benefits it can give are either +/- 1/16 hp per turn and evasion, so the only way it can benefit from hail is to give it better stats so it can abuse whichever ability it has. im fearing this thing will become a snow cloak garchomp.

 

[Staraptor Call]

We could have our cake and eat it too: a Hail sweeper with a neglected ability that's central to its strategy. For now, though, in order to open a new niche for some underused ability, I'm going with EM's option. Unless it were a new Garchomp, one new Hail sweeper wouldn't make offensive Hail viable. A team would need more sweeping options.

 

[Princess_power]

I honestly doubt anyone runs Compoundeyes Syclant seeing that it's 4x weak to ROCK and Mountaineer helps its switchin of Stealth Rock.

I wasn't referring to Scylant alone. I was only mentioning that it uses an extremely rare (Double Powder Butterfree) abillity. While Stealth Rock hurts him a lot, that doesn't mean that Compound Eyes was not a neglected ability that was used in a perfectly viable CAP pokemon.

 

[Magmortified]

Anyways, Neglected Ability really gives us free reign over what we want out of CAP8; let us pray we don't go too extreme (ex. Pyroak's typing)

I'm actually kind of worried about this because there's a thing called too much freedom. Most of the reason we have concepts to begin with is to present some level of direction. I'm not saying that we should know a CAP before we make it. That was probably one of the shortcomings of Snowdra. But a concept that doesn't give any direction other than "It should have a Neglected ability, and be based around that, kinda." is just asking for some chaos. The whole point of a concept is to give us some direction, so that we don't wander around blindly like we were doing in the first three CAPs. Worse yet, the thing we're aiming for has two very important polls coming before it (Style Bias and Typing) and since any amount of direction we're aiming to have will come from ability, I'm afraid things could end up in a mess.

Granted, concept assessment might help some, but nothing definitive will end up being decided on. Unless something is settled once-and-for-all in a poll, there is always a second opinion, which would probably be the cause for any instability that might happen come time for typing polls. With various people backing different abilities with what could be completely different purposes and voting thereby.

Not that this post is really going to affect the outcome. I'm just stating some of my fears for what could happen in Neglected Ability - a lot of which is why I voted for Snowdra.

 

[cyberzero]

Granted, concept assessment might help some, but nothing definitive will end up being decided on. Unless something is settled once-and-for-all in a poll, there is always a second opinion, which would probably be the cause for any instability that might happen come time for typing polls. With various people backing different abilities with what could be completely different purposes and voting thereby.

Not that this post is really going to affect the outcome. I'm just stating some of my fears for what could happen in Neglected Ability - a lot of which is why I voted for Snowdra.

This is a concern, but given the circumstances, I believe that in Concept Assessment, we should define what a "Neglected" ability is, as there are many possible definitions, and then come up with a preliminary list. Once this preliminary list is established, the typing polls should aim to encompass as many of the abilities on the list as possible, not a single ability or a few abilities from the list. In the Concept Assessment, I also believe we should address whether or not we want a Neglected Ability that aids an offensive-minded Pokemon, a defensive-minded Pokemon or a balanced Pokemon, which would help us in choosing a type.

This is my opinion on how to go about with the Concept Assessment in the event that EM wins. If I'm allowed as TL, unless there are any better ideas, that will be how we'll go with it. It's more organized than picking blindly and at least it will give us SOME direction.

 

[SparkTEHfuze]

I went for Neglected Ability.
I feel like certain abilities get over looked, so I figured we'd need some backup on those lesser used abilities.

 

[Articanus]

Not voting.

 

[Hazmat]

There are some really harsh vibes around here.

Zarator, even if NA is a mess, you should still just keep yourself from talking about it negatively because it's bad form and could be seen as straight-up lobbying. Let your other supporters do it for you.

Not voting.

 

[Lord Gloom]

Not voting.

I don't see why it's relevant to state you aren't voting unless you're either Elevator Music or zarator. If you don't want to vote, don't vote, but it isn't very helpful to tell us that you didn't.

Anyways, I voted for Neglected Ability. I don't particularly like either since both preclude a lot of things, but Neglected Ability does that to a lesser extent in my mind.

 

[hsb39]

I went for Neglected Ability.

 

[Azule]

Voted neglected ability

 

[AnimeAlex]

I voted Kingdra in the Snow

 

[Rody]

The Kingdra in the snow pokemon has the coolest idea of the two cause it's description is much more understandable than the other 1 but it won't make it.
It won't make it because most CAP people already know it's typing (ice) and it's base stats (offensive) so that this CAP will be very short what most CAP people don't want so they vote for the other idea.
That is my opinion.

 

[Dogfish44]

Sorry to both candidates, but the lesser of 2 evils is the Neglected Ability.

 

[Blazebat]

As cool as Kingdra in the snow is it will be cap of creating a poke we already have (Kingdra) with slightly different stats and a different typing. Even though there could be problems with picking an ability for the neglected ability is seems like the better learning experience.

 

[Deucalion2]

Away for four days and this happens.

My thoughts:

Kingdra of the Snow is incredibly restrictive. In order for the fucker not to get fucked, it will need to be a Ice type, or have Magic Guard, or Snow Veil. Hail's only offensive booster, is super-accurate Blizzard, so chances are it will be Ice-type to get STAB from that, otherwise Hail isn't really helping much. People will stick so random secondary typing on to assist somewhat, probably Electric for a STAB-ed Boltbeam, and it'll be given sweeper stats with the usual high speed and special attack. I can practically see the damn thing in front of me (it seems somewhat similar to Syclant, 'cept Syclant doesn't need Hail to function).

On the other hand, it does explore a usable niche in the metagame. There is no Hail sweeper, and introducing a Hail sweeper would be something completely new, so there are a few upsides.

Comparatively, Neglected Ability is completely unrestrictive, and is almost certain to be a clusterfuck. The typing can't really aid the ability in any way, since we chose ability after typing, so that aspect will just be various people voting wildly for their favourite, and end up a mess. Secondly, we've already introduced a Pokemon with a neglected ability into CaP - in fact, six or so of them. Almost all CaPs have neglected abilities. This doesn't exploit any new niches. The best that can be said for this is that if an intelligent person manages to lead people in the right direction, he could kinda bend it to a secondary, useful purpose. But then, that's a rather remote possibility.

Basically, I don't like either option, but I feel Kingdra of the Snow is the lesser of two evils. It may be restrictive, but at least it actually sets out to do what the CaP Project is all about. Of course, NA has already won, basically, and I'm going to have to work with it, but hey, just wanted to voice my thoughts.

 

[Pyromanic]

Kingdra in the snow.

 

[Chomz]

I can't say I really like how this poll turned out. My two votes both didn't make it so far (Leave a Legacy didn't quite leave one behind, and Pivot Point didn't prove very pivotal to the voting process after all), but that's not my point. If my choices were beaten out my an option which was both relatively structed and flexible, I certainly won't have minded.

In this final poll, the two options occupy completely different ends of the spectrum, but if I had to choose one that's left, I would go for Neglected Ability, since I think it offers a greater amount of potential for creativity in CAP 8. As I stated in Concept Poll 1, I still find Kingdra in the Snow begins with too clear an idea of the end product in mind, which will lead to a lack of creative potential in divining stat spreads, movepools, and abilities. While I agree that Neglected Ability is incredibly open-ended and may turn out to be a huge mess, KitS is just too restrictive to allow for true flexibility in any way.

 

[Articanus]

I don't see why it's relevant to state you aren't voting unless you're either Elevator Music or zarator. If you don't want to vote, don't vote, but it isn't very helpful to tell us that you didn't.

do their vote count for 10 or something, otherwise I don't see how this is the case since everyone's is the same

 

[Objection]

To be honest, one of the concepts is too vague and the other is too narrow. At least stuff like para-busting tank and infinite attack allowed us a bit more freedom in ability choices, typing and stats while still having a core theme that would still pertain until the very end. With neglected ability, once we've chosen the ability, we have virtually no direction. With kingdra in the snow, we either have to have it ice-type, or give it an ability that makes it immune to hail, or have an unviable hail sweeper, so one part of the process is set in stone before even being discussed.

Because of this, I am not voting for either concept and will not participate further in this CAP.

 

[ferron]

I would rule out Stall, as I can’t see any way to use it in any way remotely resembling exciting.

might not seem exciting, but there are moves (payback and encore come to mind) that can be useful with that ability.

 

[Jhonny]

voted for kingdra of the snow since its the only 2 which is an actual concept. i mean once the ability is chosen for neglected ability, you can pretty much call it done and move on to the next cap since that was the whole concept.

The rest of the process would be important in securing that the ability will actually be useful in the metagame.

 

[Xellos]

I voted for neglected ability. Although some of the previous CAP's have had "uncommon abilites" they were not built based soley around a single neglected ability.

 

[Naxte]

I voted for neglected ability. Although some of the previous CAP's have had "uncommon abilites" they were not built based soley around a single neglected ability.

How is that relevant though? The point is, they have neglected abilities, and ones like Revenankh and Arghnonaut make full use of them, which shows that it can and has been done. Snow-Kingdra may have been done in Syclant, but at least it hasn't been done in a majority of the current CAPs.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

Neglected ability is just to interesting to pass up! I'd love to see stall, or something like that put to good use