CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 5a - Ability Discussion

[cyberzero]

This thread is open for discussion of existing ingame abilities, and possible new abilities for the pokemon.

This is the concept, and since this is the most important aspect of the concept, I'll be posting it in it's entirety.

Name: Neglected Ability

Description: This pokemon will have an ability [or two] that is currently undervalued (but possibly very helpful) in the metagame but isn't used because the other pokemon with this ability don't have the stats or movepool to make it work.

Justification: This is probably one of the best ways to go about learning about the metagame. Seeing why certain abilities don't see much play and what we can do to make them more used is an easy way to learn about the metagame. There is also the possibility that this pokemon will have a beneficial effect on the metagame and/or will create a new niche in the metagame (or take the niche of an old pokemon that didn't see much play).

Explanation: There are plenty of abilities that we can base a concept around that don't see much play. I'm thinking things like Shield Dust (we all know how much I want a good pokemon to abuse this!), Shed Skin (though Rev has this covered imo), Simple, hell even things such as Solar Power or Forewarn. It would be silly of me to try and list out all the abilities we could use for this.

I like this concept because it doesn't restrict typing or stats or whatever. There are so many possible directions this could go in we aren't narrowing too much down, but at the same time I feel it provides just enough direction to keep the pokemon on track.

Type: Electric / Dragon

It will have a Somewhat Defensive style bias.These are the recommended Abilities for our CAP, but other abilities from the Allowed list can be chosen as well. Please refer to the Concept Assessment thread for details on other Abilities.

Air Lock
Aftermath
Anticipation
Cloud Nine
Color Change
Compoundeyes
Damp
Early Bird
Effect Spore
Flower Gift
Leaf Guard
Marvel Scale
Poison Point
Rough Skin
Shield Dust
Soundproof
Static
Suction Cups
Synchronize
Thick Fat
Trace

These are the other abilities that can be chosen from:
Chlorophyll
Forewarn
Gluttony
Hustle
Iron Fist
Mold Breaker
Poison Point
Quick Feet
Reckless
Rock Head
Skill Link
Solar Power
Tangled Feet
Unburden

Unreasonable and unintelligent posting will NOT be tolerated and will result in post deletion or an infraction. Discuss which 'neglected' abilities would be viable on a Pokemon like ours. Keep it civil, keep it smart, but most of all, keep it fun!

 

[Leviathan207]

I'm liking Thick Fat and Static, to be honest.

Thick Fat covers one of its weaknesses, while Static discourages enemy physical attacks; both effects are welcome on a defensive pokemon.

 

[VKCA]

I do think rough skin would be very nice to have on a specially defensive poke

 

[pikpikcarrotmon]

Static, Cloud Nine/Air Lock, Aftermath - the ones I think look nicest for a bulkyish electric/dragon. Cloud Nine/Air Lock seems like it might hurt it due to losing Thunder, but I don't think that's a real problem.

 

[Buckles]

With the powerful special attacks that come from the Electric and Dragon typings (T-Bolt and Draco Meteor), and the goal of being a defensive minded poke, I like the idea of Cloud Nine (or Air Lock). Sand storm immunity and no more special defense boosts for T-Tar, or any other Rock type, would go a long way to help this thing fit in the OU environment.

Bonus: It also fits flavour-wise!

 

[Psykout22]

I feel that Rough Skin could be looked into with a defensive pokemon but for now i feel Cloud Nine gets my vote

 

[Fuzznip]

Thick Fat and Static are pretty amazing. 4x Fire resist (in a sense) and a neutrality to Ice (in a sense) is pretty awesome for a bulky Draco. Static is also a nice option.

 

[Buckles]

I hadn't really thought of Thick Fat...Ice neutrality would really help it, especially since without the Ice weak, it'll be able to switch into Water types easily (not Swampert, though).

 

[Coram_Boy]

I like the idea of thick fat - effective neutrality to ice and a 4X resistance to fire means that it could, with good prediction, switch in nicely (plus, it fits with the ganondragon that I like so much :D)

 

[tennisace]

The case for Shield Dust:

How much do you hate it when you go to counter Heatran, only to find your Gyarados is burned from Fire Blast? How much do you hate Scarfrachi since you KNOW it's faster and you KNOW it's going to flinch at JUST the right time. Well, Shield Dust would change all of that. It allows you to switch into Lava Plumes, Discharges, Air Slashes, and Iron Heads with relative impunity; Shield Dust nullifies those nasty secondary effects. With that great typing, and presumably good defenses, why not abuse it with Shield Dust?

 

[dorkknight23]

Of the recommended abilities:
Air Lock: Some possibilities for disrupting weather-based teams, but kind of a one note trick.
Aftermath: A great "f-you" after getting KO'd by an earthquake.
Anticipation: Really, with a limited number of weaknesses (Ground, Ice, Dragon) should have a good clue of who's packing (mostly everyone.)
Cloud Nine: Seems the same as Air Lock.
Color Change: Not sure how this will play out with a dual-type poké.
Compoundeyes: Weird for a dragon but has potential.
Damp: Exploding is not that common of a tactic to begin with, save for a few suicide leads.
Early Bird: Not sure how to really exploit it, other than early rests, which Revenankh generally does better.
Effect Spore: Random statuses could be useful.
Flower Gift: Could be useful for building a Sunny Day-based sweeper.
Leaf Guard: Useful for a Sunny Day team, but little else.
Marvel Scale: Great potential.
Poison Point: Like Effect Spore, but with one setting.
Rough Skin: With enough HP and Defenses could be exploitable.
Shield Dust: Good for spamming some Togekiss and Snorlax, not much else.
Soundproof: Being immune to phazing could be handy.
Static: Flavorwise is good, but not very useful.
Suction Cups: Although a useful ability to avoid being roared or whirlwinded out, which could give the most potential for setting up.
Synchronize: Statusing the statused. Not too intriguing.
Thick Fat: Thick Fat could be an interesting option, effectively neutralizing the weakness to Ice and increasing its resistance to Fire. The only weaknesses it would then have would be Dragon and Ground attacks (very common types in the metagame, but still.)
Trace: Don't see the potential.

Of those not listed but allowed:
Chlorophyll: Again, useful for a Sunny Day team.
Forewarn: Useful for some scouting, but our guy seems too bulky to get enough real uses out of it.
Gluttony: Could make real use of Belly Drum + Salac boosts.
Hustle: I like this idea of hitting hard but being less accurate.
Iron Fist: Not too many applications.
Mold Breaker: Some interesting applications.
Quick Feet: Would be interesting to see on a slower (but tankier) poké.
Reckless: Potentially useful if loaded with recoil moves.
Rock Head: Not too many STAB recoil moves, other than that.
Skill Link: No STAB-linked moves.
Solar Power: Again, useful for a Sunny Day team.
Tangled Feet: Awesome if after becoming confused after Outrage suddenly has heightened Evasion.
Tinted Lens: Not as useful on this poké who has limited STAB-related resistances.
Unburden: Could be useful.

Of the above, the following struck my fancy
Somewhat Defensive
Aftermath
Flower Gift
Leaf Guard
Marvel Scale
Rough Skin
Thick Fat

Others
Chlorophyll
Gluttony
Hustle
Mold Breaker
Quick Feet
Reckless
Solar Power
Tangled Feet
Unburden

 

[Buckles]

The case for Shield Dust:
*explanation*

While I do see your point, and would support Shield Dust over almost any other ability, CAP 8 resists all those moves you mentioned, and with a defensive (albeit slightly) stat spread, the pokes using them probably wouldn't stay in (especially not Togekiss).

 

[Gooey Kablooie]

I agree with psykout22 and Mr.Void in liking rough skin. It's a great ability and only seen on carvahna and sharpedo. Shaving off 1/8 of their life everytime they hit you physically is a big hit to take (It's more than life orb takes off). Not to mention when you predict a resisted physical move you can switch into it would be even more painful, couple this with a STAB priority move and you can take out some of those frailer pokes that would try and EQ you. This is only really viable on a high sp.def poke but since we've already voted somewhat defensive we can most likely do that. Furthermore, physical seems to be the most commonly used moves. Also, if later given a healing move we could have a new type of poke (totally new type of dragon) that wouldn't even need a lot of attack at all and could be a threat.

I'm also in support of forewarn and skill link. Forewarn is very interesting on the grounds of helping prediction and with the right knowledge you can anticipate certain builds your opponent may be using. My support of skill link is simply based on me thinking it would be cool to make a new electric or dragon multi-hit move that would utilize it. I just like the thought of sub-breaking, breaking through berry protection and such.

 

[Kamen Rider]

Now that we have typing and build bias decided, I think Shield Dust would be an ideal ability. Lets look at what Shield Dust brings to the table. First off it has the Inner Focus built into, which means this thing can never be flinched. Considering its electrics typing, it automatically resists the Serene Gracers flinching moves of choice, Air Slash and Iron Head. It also cant be flinched by Gyrados's Waterfall, another move this CAP resist. It also takes neutral to Zen Head Butt and Fake Out, 2 other OU flinche moves of choice. The only Flinch Move that threatens it is Ice Fang, and thats merely cause it deals SE.

Being protected by Flinch Hax in itself is a huge boon for any pokemon, but it doesnt stop there. It never has to worry about paralysis unexpetedly popping up from damage moves. Not only is this another mark against Serene Gracer Jirachi's hoping to hose a switch with body slam, it also works on Bounce Gyrados and all the electric moves, which it once again resists.

The coverage doesnt stop there. It also protects it from extra damage from resisted fire attacks, which can never burn it. It also prevents unexpected status drops from damage moves. While in this case you might think it is so rare it wouldnt happen, since it generally is only a 10% chance on most moves. When you realize the lists includes moves like Shadow Ball, Crunch, Earth Power, Shadow Strike, Paleo Wave, Psychic, Energy Ball, and Seed Bomb, having the extra insurance is pretty nice.

Perhaps one downside is it cant protect against freeze hax, since it is already weak to ice. Though if it manages to get a heal move and either the screens or a defensive boost move, it does have the potential to stall out ice attacks, which of course can be stopped normally by unexpected freeze hax.

Other benefits to Shield Dust also include, never being confused by Machamps Dynamic Punch, never losing an item to Knock Off, and never heal opposing pokemon using moves like Giga Drain and Drain Punch.

Now with this long list of benefits, some might be thinking the ability is overpowered. Do not worry. It is still suspectible to status effects, provided the move doesnt deal damage, it still takes damage and crits like normal, it can still be taunted, encored, tricked, phazed and every other effect that doesnt deal damage in addition to its effect. All Shield Dust does it make it invulnerable to the vast majority of hax effects, and I think that is something everyone can get behind.

Edit: Testing confirms it doesnt block Brick Break and Spin

 

[Buckles]

The thing about Rough Skin is that it will still be weak to Ice Shard, Avalanche and EQ, and the attacker won't receive any recoil.

The most common physical contact moves in standard are Waterfall (Gyarados will run when he sees this poke), Outrage (probably gonna KO anyway), Close Combat/Superpower (some potential here, I guess) and Normal moves (again, could come in handy). The problem is, most pokemon packing those moves are going to have EQ as back-up, and you'll have to switch anyway. I just don't see how it tops Thick Fat or Shield Dust.

EDIT: @ Kamen Rider, I'm pretty sure it doesn't block Rapid Spin or Brick Break.

 

[Magmortified]

I'm not really sure about Cloud Nine. Not taking damage from SS just seems like kind of a minor thing. Tar not having a SpD boost is okay too I guess, but really, choosing the ability just to be able to Draco Meteor Tar harder seems rather along the lines of overkill.

Static I'm on the fence about. It's only a 30 percent chance, and there aren't really many physical resistances to play off of here. It can be a nice bonus, but it's not dependable, and it might not be worth it trying to run into physical attacks praying to get a Static off. Considering we're making this bulky, I'd prefer to go with Discharge, which isn't too bad a trade in power with Tbolt and does things if para doesn't take. Or TWave, which is guaranteed to para. Despite all this, I'm having a rather tough time finding an ability that would really work well here, so I'd back this if I had to.

Rough Skin doesn't give that great a payoff for trying to absorb physical hits either. If there were a better lineup of physical resistances, I'd consider this a little bit more. But even then, I'm not too sure.

I can't imagine why we're anticipating the KO'ing of bulky Electric/Dragon so readily. So I'm not too eager to go with Aftermath either.

It really pains me to say this, but there's not really a good ability that I can think of that suits this very well. So if it comes to things, I would back passive abilities Static or Shield Dust. Shield Dust's benefits are a little minor, considering most secondary effects aren't really likely to begin with. For the more likely effects, it'd take a lot of convincing to get me in on Machamp DynamicPunch to begin with, I still resist Jirachi Iron Head or Togekiss Air Slash so that's not really that bad to begin with, Fake Out is really only used to break Sash right now and I can't imagine it being a threat to CAP 8, and anything packing Waterfall will usually have better things to hit CAP 8 with. It can seem a little nice if you're finding Shadow Ball dropping your SpD too often, but I really wish there was something better to work with.

That said, there really doesn't seem like there is, so I'll repeat: Static or Shield Dust...

 

[1059860]

Shield Dust primarily for the resistances of Togekiss' Air Slash and Jirachi's Iron Head, for their Serene Grace paraflinches. As for logic-wise, not only bugs have a shield. Dragon skins can have shield dust too.

Rough Skin can be very nice if the Pokemon has a high Special Defense, forcing the opponents to use physical attacks if want great damage. However, Earthquake doesn't get hurt from Rough Skin, and this already omnipresent move will just get more common.

Compoundeyes have a very nice effect, making the previously neglected Dragon Rush very useable. Defensively, it can benefit status moves such as Glare, Screech, or even Hypnosis (if the community finds it fit). It adds a nice nitch to this zapdragon thing.

 

[silk889]

Right now My number one is Shield Dust. I just think that being able to switch in to and and stay in against Machamp, Fire pokemon, Flinchers and even body slammers without fear of getting crippled (or even just frustrated)is too valuable.

I also like:
Cloud Nine since several teams rely on various weather effects to win.

Marvel Scale so that it could absorb status' and do its job as a defensive poke even better

and Rough Skin because the extra damage would work wonders for scaring off physical attackers.

 

[Deck Knight]

I am running on a Static/Shield Dust ticket.

Static: Static is a truly neglected ability that has failed because its potential has never been harnessed. Every priority attack except Vacuum Wave is a contact attack, and Static combined with good defense, resistance to two (Aqua Jet/Bullet Punch) and a weakness to only one of them (Ice Shard) provides an ideal switchin to cripple their users.

Shield Dust: Shield Dust has similarly been left in the cold on pokemon with stats far too weak to abuse it. Dustox? Really? Shield Dust also profits from decent defenses, being able to retaliate against flinchaxers without worry, never fearing a burn (bar WoW) or freeze, and even in our case being able to switch into a Discharge and Lava Plume with near impunity. It will never suffer a defense lower from ShadowStrike nor worry about the special defense drop that would doom it on a weak Earth Power, or even better, a resisted Seed Flare.

Combined these two abilities are marvelous, since all of the flinching moves bar Fake Out (one use) and Air Slash (resisted) have contact property. You could either fail at flinching or be paralyzed (with the resulting speed drop stopping any pretense of further flinching.) They really won't know which until they take the 30% chance of crippling thier own flinchwhore (or failing and eating Thunder Wave anyway)

 

[jagged_angel]

I shared your feelings about the lack of standout Abilities for CAP8, Magmortified.

However I strongly oppose Static, thinking it would be close to useless with this typing.

If we look at the types Electric/Dragon is resistant to - Steel, Flying, Electric, Grass, Water and Fire - only 1 of those has any common physical moves - Steel. I think Grass Knot might be a contact move too but I'm not sure.

Since you'd only really be able to predict what to get hit by (and not mind getting hit by it) when switching in, resistances are the only typings of moves that really matter with a 'when hit by an attack' Ability like Static.

As a result of this poor typing match up - you could only afford to switch into Bullet Punch, Iron Head and Meteor Mash with any regularity. That's a 30% chance to paralyse 3 pokemon, one of which has a priority attack to avoid the speed drop anyway!

Yes, Static would provide a Very occasionally para for physical attackers but the only really prolific physical moves are Fighting type and they are 2/3kos on most neutral opponents anyway, due to a plethora of high BP move options, so CAP8 can't really afford so switch in when it's only Slightly Defensive.

Lastly, Static could be used for a 'memento' or 'grudge' effect when CAP8 is fainted by a SE attack. Never mind that this would only happen a measly 30% of the time - but EQ, Ice Beam and Draco Meteor are all non-contact - I'm not even sure about Outrage.

Sooo CAP8 fails to have a chance to use Static against almost All the common moves it might get hit by. Given a proper typing, Static could be decent. But with this typing, it Fails.

Therefore I only really support Shield Dust for the reasons mentioned so far.

Resisting Steel, Flying, Electric and Fire is the Perfect typing for defeating Serene Gracers and Para/Burn abusers.

 

[Magmortified]

I just think that being able to switch in to and and stay in against Machamp,

I don't see why you'd want to switch this thing into Machamp DynamicPunch. Even without confusion it can still take out quite a chunk of health.

Fire pokemon,

Not only do you resist Fire, the chance of getting Burned is still pretty low.

Flinchers

You do resist Iron Head, Air Slash, and Waterfall. Which are three of the most common flinch moves. A few flinches probably aren't going to ruin you. And everything but Jirachi will either be trying to get out instead, or otherwise hit you with something that'll do a lot more damage.

and even body slammers without fear of getting crippled

I'll concede this.

Cloud Nine since several teams rely on various weather effects to win.

There are a couple of rain teams and maybe a hail team or two, but this is a bit of a stretch...

Marvel Scale so that it could absorb status' and do its job as a defensive poke even better

It'd be okay, I guess. I'm just not too big a fan of taking a status just for a defense bonus. It has a tendency to be too big of a tradeoff.

and Rough Skin because the extra damage would work wonders for scaring off physical attackers.

Given the choice of EQ'ing CAP 8 for minor recoil, or not using EQ, I'd take EQ. You'll usually have to switch into a physical hit, which you're not necessarily going to take with a smile. It can be helpful sometimes, if rather minor.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Static and Shield Dust. They aid in switching in this guy (ok, maybe not Static), which is what we really need to focus on right now, with counters being screwed up by extra effects. I think Trace would be cool, but the other two are the best combination.

*EDIT*

Actually, there are still some interesting choices out there. I'm looking through more, and may be changing my mind on how this thing could go.

 

[Deck Knight]

I shared your feelings about the lack of standout Abilities for CAP8, Magmortified.

However I strongly oppose Static, thinking it would be close to useless with this typing.

If we look at the types Electric/Dragon is resistant to - Steel, Flying, Electric, Grass, Water and Fire - only 1 of those has any common physical moves - Steel. I think Grass Knot might be a contact move too but I'm not sure.

I look at this from the other angle: The fact this resists so many kinds of primarily special attacks will require the use of physical attacks to adress it. This is where neutralities come into play, and Elec/Dragon is neutral to nearly all common contact physical attacks. Earthquake, Stone Edge, Rock Slide, and Seed Bomb don't have contact properties. Everything else that you would commonly see does. Many of the "third option" attacks like Aqua Tail (resisted), Zen Headbutt, Crunch, and Superpower will activate it. U-Turn also activates it, and scouts with U-Turn are in vogue recently. There might even be an amusing Endure/Custap set you could employ that would paralyze an Outraging Dragon, activate your Berry, and let you finish them off with a Dragon attack of your own.

 

[Blazebat]

Personally i have seen the merits of marvel scale on Milotic in uu. I think that with ou stats we could easily have the ultimate rest talking wall. With only moderate defense and slightly above average special defense we could see how people react to not wanting to sleep a pokemon. There would be the obvious taunt strategy but also an increased viability of grass types with worry seed. Shield dust is likely the most supported ability but Marvel scale could teach us so much more than simply being immune to secondary effects. Shield dust is fantastic but I am convinced the marvel scale would be a better chance to learn something.

 

[ferron]

i cannot believe that people wish to back thick fat...
people, i know that it is tempting to lessen a weakness, but we are already making a somewhat defensive poke. it only has 3 x2 weaknesses and lucario has proven that having many x2 weaknesses is still workable.

i would much rather give this poke static, shield dust or trace. the first two are great passives that help its defensive nature, while the third allows for a more strategic (if more difficult) play style that would allow it to be a check for various pokes.