CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 5c - Secondary Ability Poll 2

[cyberzero]

Our Pokemon so far:

Name: Neglected Ability

Description: This pokemon will have an ability [or two] that is currently undervalued (but possibly very helpful) in the metagame but isn't used because the other pokemon with this ability don't have the stats or movepool to make it work.

Type: Electric / Dragon
Style Bias: Somewhat Defensive
Build Bias: Mixed, possibly Special
Main Ability: Shield Dust

We have the option to choose a secondary Ability that will allow us to fulfill the concept, but for this poll, No Secondary Ability is an option.

A number of Neglected Abilities have been decided on, but according to the results of the previous Secondary Ability Poll, we require a second one. The abilities that can be chosen from are:

No Secondary Ability
Trace
Hustle
Marvel Scale
Rough Skin
Static

Make sure to read through the thread before making a vote. Happy voting!
Discussion is encouraged, as well as a readthrough of this discussion thread. When posting in click poll threads, be sure to follow the following guidelines. Posts that add nothing to the thread are not allowed. There is no reason to broadcast your vote to everyone; this adds nothing to the thread, and if people really wanted to see your vote, they can check the poll themselves. Posts like "I voted for ___ ..." or "I voted for ___ because I ..." are unallowed. Better is "Vote for ___ because ...". These posts must be backed up by competitive reasoning, or else they will be deleted and/or infracted.

 

[Veedrock]

Let's Hustle.

Basically I'm looking for 3 things:

1. Offensive ability - Shield Dust is (primarily) defensive, so let's keep with the balanced theme and give offensive options a shot.
2. Does not overshadow Shield Dust - I want Shield Dust to be the primary option, and not be overlooked for some better ability. You expect people to use Shield Dust over Trace? I don't want a superior option that leaves it untouched, and don't think "No secondary ability" is needed to make it used.
3. Not completely worthless - Things like Iron Fist and Reckless are cool and not overshadowing because of their limitation, but they're so limited that they're benefit is not worth it (especially considering that most spreads have a low attack). Sun abilities rely on a rare field condition that's difficult to maintain. Hustle provides a large attack boost which is very handy. For those not convinced of Hustle's usefulness, here are some calcs. 252 +nature, Life Orb, +0, using Outrage, CAP8 has 60 Base Attack (mirroring the Deck/tennis spread).

Mence vs. standard Hippowdon: 47.14% - 55.71%
CAP 8 vs. standard Hippowdon: 42.14% - 49.52%
 
Mence vs. 252/252 Bold Suicune: 46.78% - 55.20%
CAP 8 vs. 252/252 Bold Suicune: 41.58% - 49.01%
 
Mence vs. 252/252 Bold Cresselia: 41.22% - 48.65%
CAP 8 vs. 252/252 Bold Cresselia: 36.49% - 43.24%
 
Mence vs. standard Skarmory: 25.75% - 30.54%
CAP 8 vs. standard Skarmory: 22.75% - 26.95%

Hustle is obviously offensive. It does not overshadow Shield Dust because 80% accuracy (or worse) on all physical moves is ass (ask locopoke :P), and only specific set options will benefit from it. As the calcs demonstrate, it's not completely useless despite the accuracy drop as it does make CAP8 hit pretty hard and leaves room for mixed (or even pure physical) options. Hustle does not affect the accuracy of Special and support moves, meaning going mixed leaves you with with perfect Special moves, with your physical options being "last resort" (like with Blissey, NOT Hippowdon).

For those that advocate "we can't split our priorities, look at Stratagem," A) how do you even build around Shield Dust? and B) Hustle doesn't really need "built" around, just give it physical moves (which it'll have anyways).

 

[Deck Knight]

Ladies and gentleman, now is the time.

Support Static:

Looking at the stat spread polls we seem to have two frontrunners. Both of these would make excellent use of Static. Their ability to capitalize on an opponents paralysis and in general take moderate levels of abuse lends them far more chances to cripple an opponent without even using a moveslot for it.

Do not worry about Shield Dust, our primary ability being overshadowed. Remember when everyone said Technician was a useless and frivolous aside on Stratagem? It turned out that Tech Stratagem was a powerful force that lended great strength to Stratagem's abilities.

Levitate is still used on Stratagem for obvious reasons, but it was not the ubiquitous and only choice among users.

Giving an additional ability allows us to learn far more about the pokemon than leaving it at one. Aren't we proving either way that these abilities were neglected solely because their original possessors lacked the stats or typing to use them?

Static adds another dimension to this pokemon. A crippling status for basically anything that uses physical attacks? How much better an offensive ability could you get being able to paralyze and essentially render one of your opponents sweepers useless and expendable? This is especially true of common physical sweepers. Imagine coming in to Metagross Meteor Mash or Gyarados waterfall and paralyzing them, and then using Magnet Rise to ruin their best option of attack, Earthquake. They are forced to switch out, allowing you a chance to blast something with a powerful STAB attack.

UU players can attest to the havoc Static has caused their teams. Static is a powerful ability that will be able to hold its own weight with minimal drawbacks.

So I must reiterate: Static for great justice.

 

[Not Scicky]

I'd be fine with Trace or Static, but I'm rooting for Trace as it is...

Choiced Flygons earthquakes are wasted, heatrans flash fires are nullified, jolteon and vaporeon fear the use of their own STAB moves, salamence is weakened without CAP8 lifting a finger...

I love it ;_;

(Actually I'm pretty much fine with any of these as long as it's not marvel scale :l)

 

[familyguyman]

As a tankish pokemon, he's either going to be taking big, heavy hits or indirect damage to wear him down. I don't see anyone sitting there trying to poke away at something like this so I don't like Rough Skin or Static (both of which need contact moves to boot). I think Marvel Scale gives him an option as a good rest-talker, and this was my first choice.

As is, he is already have a good Gyarados counter and HaxKiss/Achi (and others) counter with Shield Dust. Trace will let him take on Heatran, Vaporeon, Celebi, Flygon and Blissey (and others) better and still keep the Gyarados counter ability. However, I think Trace overshadows Shield Dust a bit too much, which is against the point of the pokemon.

Hustle gives an interesting option. Being more defensive, there'd be no worry about a miss and it opens up a nice niche to fill. The only problem is, I don't see why this would be used, ever, over Shield Dust.

Therefore, I vote Marvel Scale. I like the ability to compliment his Tanking nature and it makes for a potent RestTalker. It lets him absorb paralysis too, better than before as now Thunder Wave is no biggie. Yes, I think Marvel Scale is perfect for opening other, effective options while not overshadowing Shield Dust.


Vote: Marvel Scale

 

[Mr Escalator]

I changed my vote from the previous poll from No Secondary Ability to Hustle. I decided I would enjoy an ability we could make a build out of opposed to a latent defensive ability by itself. I was never a fan of Shield Dust, so having a second ability to fall back would actually be preferable, opposed to my original sentiment of just keeping this thing straightforward.

So yeah.
If anything, I think Static was originally a good choice, but it suffers the same issue as Shield Dust in that you set it and forget it. Well, not as much, since switching in to cripple is at least something, but I would really like to be able to build around the ability. Marval Scale seems okay, but maybe a bit too good, and Trace is way too good. I wouldn't use Shield Dust ever if given the choice between it and Trace. Rough Skin is a worse Static.

 

[Tint]

Can anyone tell me why this ability can't overshadow Shield Dust?
..... didn't think so.
It's fine to pick any ability you want, if it overshadows Shield Dust, then what's the better ability?

Trace, btw.

 

[Veedrock]

I never understand this "First ability = Primary/Master ability" way of thinking. Personally, if either of the two abilities are "neglected" by our standards, regardless on the outcome you still completed your main goal for the project.

Can anyone tell me why this ability can't overshadow Shield Dust?
..... didn't think so.

Because Shield Dust is damn cool. It swept the primary poll because people like it, and people want incentive to use it. That's probably why NSA did so hot last time; because they don't want something else detracting from a sweet ability. On the subject of trace, there is no way CAP8 will use it better than Porygon2, and no way people will use Sheild Dust over it.

I think Hustle is a horrible ability since that accuracy drop is really sucky, and the power boost isn't enough.

How is the power boost not enough? It hits almost as hard as Salamence with your spread!

 

[Not Scicky]

How is the power boost not enough? It hits almost as hard as Salamence with your spread!

Once again, it hits almost, repeat, almost as hard as salamence, how is giving it hustle a good choice when it's just going to be outclassed by salamence in power and accuracy?

 

[Magmortified]

I honestly don't think we need anything other than No Secondary Ability.

I don't like having to take a status just to get the Defense boost Marvel Scale provides. Besides ReSTalk, which I'm not really that eager to use, there's not really a good way to make that work out.

I'm not really liking the implications of Hustle. Personally I'm just in favor of keeping this thing focused on using Special moves in opposition to giving it a number of viable physical options.

I'm less opposed overall to the other three abilities, I just think they don't really add all that much to this. Frankly, it could get a little annoying. :S

 

[hydrolphin]

Meh... nothing appeals to much.
Hustle does nothing for me, the accuracy drop outweighs the boost.. I'd rather stick with mence.
Trace would be better suited on a pokemon that could switch in on mence... Draco Meteor would really hurt.
Marvel Scale and Rough Skin are not in contention currently, but neither is appealing to me.
Static is the best of these choices, and I would actually be glad to see it win, but I would prefer nsa.

Voted No secondary ability

 

[tennisace]

How is the power boost not enough? It hits almost as hard as Salamence with your spread!

Outrage is 100% accurate with Mence. Also "almost" in Pokemon is the difference between a win and a loss most times, so "almost" being as powerful as Mence isn't worth the drop in accuracy and the loss of a better ability, since Mence is much better mixed, and can actually force switches with Intimidate. Hustle CAP8 simply cannot compare with Mence at all.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Because Shield Dust is damn cool. It swept the primary poll because people like it, and people want incentive to use it. That's probably why NSA did so hot last time; because they don't want something else detracting from a sweet ability.

I thought the main reason people wanted Shield Dust is because they had horrible experience and/or horrible luck with it comes to hax. Now will Shield Dust cure you of your horrible luck problem and/or stop hax from ruining your day, not excatly but at least one pokemon doesn't have to worry about random and rare hax (other than crit) in it's life.

On the subject of trace, there is no way CAP8 will use it better than Porygon2.

This is mostly because of P2's typing? If we had given CAP8 the movepool and stat of P2, the only thing that P2 would have over it is being neutral to Ground and Dragon.

And no way people will use Sheild Dust over it.

Again, if one of the two abilities are considered "neglected" by default then it doesn't matter if one is used more than the other since we still completed our mission goal. Mind you though, both abilities should probably be considered "neglected" to make my statement true.

 

[pikpikcarrotmon]

I voted for Static, but I'd be happy with Static or Hustle. By voting for these, you're picking perfect complimentary abilities to Shield Dust that do not overshadow it but rather add variation to CAP8, making it less predictable to fight and fit the 'mixed' image we've all been voting for from the beginning. Voting for No Secondary Ability just needlessly limits what we can learn about the metagame, which is the purpose of this Pokemon - to see what would happen if neglected abilities were put on good, fitting Pokemon. Adding a second ability can only help.

 

[TotalPotato]

I voted for Rough Skin. The direction this Pokémon seems to be taking is towards the defensive side, making it feasible to switch into contact attacks once in a while and do a Stealth Rock's worth of damage, which can make all the difference in certain situations. The nice typing of Electric/Dragon helps here. Granted, it's not an amazing ability, but that's what this concept is all about - exploring how one can effectively use these often overlooked abilites.

I'm fine with most of the other ones, but the one that really bothers me is No Secondary Ability. A lot of users have said that an extra ability is either unnecessary or will go against the concept. I disagree with this, because the justification for this concept is to do with learning about the metagame through these undervalued abilities. Surely having two possible abilities can only allow us to learn more about the metagame than if we were to have just one?

 

[-Zer0-]

Let me just say, if you choose TRACE, you are deciding to completely negate shield dust. I dont like that shield dust was chosen, but you cant base a pokemon around trace, we can do something with shield dust though.

It is such a ridiculous idea.

Hustle for me.

 

[Not Scicky]

Let me just say, if you choose TRACE, you are deciding to completely negate shield dust. I dont like that shield dust was chosen, but you cant base a pokemon around trace, we can do something with shield dust though.

It is such a ridiculous idea.

Hustle for me.

Bull >:U

If you don't want trace to overshadow shield dust, then don't use trace, simple as that

 

[TekkenStorm]

If Trace overshadows Shield Dust, than Shield dust wasn't a good choice from the start.

I voted for Trace as i find Shield Dust being useless since this pokemon resists the majority of the hax moves or they don't even effect him, so they won't be even used on him in first place.

 

[dorkknight23]

Hustle is a good offensive alternative to Shield Dust, giving a wider potential of builds (both offensive and defensive) to CAP8. Its special-leaning attacks might be canceled out (or overshadowed) by this ability, making for a greater variety of possibilities for moves (making it a great tank or a great offensive tank.)

 

[Fuzznip]

No Secondary Ability.

I honestly don't think we need this CAP to have another ability.

I don't like Static because Discharge is basically the same thing but it actually does damage, and you don't even need to be damaged by an attack.

Trace is decent option, but I don't exactly see the point. This CAP resists Fire coming from Heatran, Electric coming from Jolteon, and Water coming from Vaporeon. Even though it will gain 25% HP or increase Fire power, I don't think it's that useful since this CAP already resists them with ease because of it's great SpD and HP. A Choiced Flygon's Earthquake is extremely easy to resist as basically every team has a way of dealing with Ground moves. An Outrage coming from Salamence will hurt even if you Intimidate it.

 

[Robo-Ky]

After giving it some thought, I now support Marvel Scale.

I really, really love Shield Dust as a tanking ability, and while I used to think that our Pokemon really only needed one central, grounded way of walling, I now believe that giving it a second option would give it much more versatility. While the contact (Rough Skin and Static) abilities are great, most of the moves this Pokemon will be weak to are not contact moves. With Shield Dust and Marvel Scale, I now realize this Pokemon's potential as an incredible status absorber and versatile wall.

Once again, I support Marvel Scale.

 

[Hugamari]

After reading other people's opinions, I think that Marvel Scale will be a nice ability.Marvel Scale would allow him to safe switch into alot of things with prediction. I think also that it could come in on the ever popular Spore Smeargle, and be used as a good wall/possibly tank later.

Vote: Marvel Scale

 

[Magmortified]

Marvel Scale would allow him to safe switch into alot of things with prediction.

Marvel Scale is by no means, grounds for a safe switch. It just provides a benefit to help ease the fact that you've still got a nasty status.

I think also that it could come in on the ever popular Spore Smeargle, and be used as a good wall/possibly tank later.

Except... you're asleep...

 

[Urza]

really disappointed to see that no secondary ability is going to win. shield dust is just...lame. anti-hax....*sigh*

 

[Farewell]

Vote for Trace because Trace makes sense since it replicates any ability barring Arceus' ability, to essentially make more use of all neglected abilities.

If you are voting no secondary ability, consider how Trace is a way to up the "indirect" use of all abilities a Pokemon switches into. Trace is pretty much a way of boosting the use of any ability, so if anything Trace would be the 1 to choose for that reason alone. Especially if you didn't see any abilities that you suggested make it this far.

Last but not least, if u are opposed to "no secondary ability" getting chosen, choose Trace even if you wanted something else, since Trace is the only one that stands a chance of winning before its too late.