I voted for Auto Magic Coat. The reason why we're doing CAPs is to learn about how the game works, and frankly, we have enough knowledge of how Guts (Machamp/Hera) and Poison Heal (Breloom) works already, so if we're learning what will happen if you're afraid to use moves with secondary in case it bounces back against you, Auto Magic Coat is the way to go for this poll i think.
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CAP 9 CAP 9 - Part 7b - Ability Poll
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While I think that all of the options are viable, quality choices (thanks to both the community and Plus ^__^) I'm going to have to go with Auto Magic Coat.
Basically, I was nonplussed with Poison Heal. It does nothing to deter non-damaging effects other than status: its anti-status effects are something we already know about, and instead of "stopping" secondary moves, it either absorbs them or makes them pointless. I just don't see this making CAP9 *change* anything--other than making a new, different-typed, higher-BST Breloom.
Guts, on the other hand, works...but again, only for status. Nothing would change for the many, many Secondaries out there--abilities which deal no damage and instead hobble (or even cripple) the opponent. Trick, Curse (from a Ghost anyway), Taunt, Leech Seed, and to a lesser extent Torment, would all still sail right on through. Instead of actually stopping the Secondary, Guts would just shift the focus of which secondaries are used, putting even more emphasis on the non-status-inducing Secondary moves.
AMC just fundamentally seems to synergize with the CAP9 concept better than Guts, and choosing it over Guts will ensure that Flame Orb sweeper sets do not completely dominate CAP9's usage.
If it's decided that a second ability is acceptable, I'll definitely be considering Guts long and hard. My main reasoning for that is that AMC's fundamental philosophy is "the best offense is a good defense." It defends and retaliates in one stroke. Guts inverts that--the best defense is a good offense. By powering up your offenses, you do smash the *hell* out of status-users and (hopefully) stop the Secondary from popping back up again. That accomplishes the mission, just in a different (and, in my opinion, somewhat less effective) way than AMC.
Additionally, by having the two of them together (if AMC is a 'silent' ability, meaning it doesn't announce itself) people will have to really, really think before they try anything: AMC would make them waste a turn if they try to drop a non-status-inducing Secondary, and Guts would make any status-inducing Secondary a figurative suicide move. However, that choice is up to Plus and the community.
Final note for the question about why supporting posts don't line up with votes. I can honestly say I'm almost afraid to post *anywhere* that isn't flavor-centric, because I'm always worried that I'll be breaking the rules, sounding like a total moron (since I have so little experience), or I feel like all my points have already been stated and therefore anything I say will be slapped with the "bandwagon" label and ignored or deleted.
TL;DR: Auto Magic Coat helps CAP9 do what it's supposed to better than the others. Guts works too, but should only be available as a secondary ability IMO. AMC and Guts both being options would be great, but that's not a decision for me to make. Finally, a lot of people (including me) are scared to post because we don't want to break the rules, bandwagon, or look stupid.
Basically, I was nonplussed with Poison Heal. It does nothing to deter non-damaging effects other than status: its anti-status effects are something we already know about, and instead of "stopping" secondary moves, it either absorbs them or makes them pointless. I just don't see this making CAP9 *change* anything--other than making a new, different-typed, higher-BST Breloom.
Guts, on the other hand, works...but again, only for status. Nothing would change for the many, many Secondaries out there--abilities which deal no damage and instead hobble (or even cripple) the opponent. Trick, Curse (from a Ghost anyway), Taunt, Leech Seed, and to a lesser extent Torment, would all still sail right on through. Instead of actually stopping the Secondary, Guts would just shift the focus of which secondaries are used, putting even more emphasis on the non-status-inducing Secondary moves.
AMC just fundamentally seems to synergize with the CAP9 concept better than Guts, and choosing it over Guts will ensure that Flame Orb sweeper sets do not completely dominate CAP9's usage.
If it's decided that a second ability is acceptable, I'll definitely be considering Guts long and hard. My main reasoning for that is that AMC's fundamental philosophy is "the best offense is a good defense." It defends and retaliates in one stroke. Guts inverts that--the best defense is a good offense. By powering up your offenses, you do smash the *hell* out of status-users and (hopefully) stop the Secondary from popping back up again. That accomplishes the mission, just in a different (and, in my opinion, somewhat less effective) way than AMC.
Additionally, by having the two of them together (if AMC is a 'silent' ability, meaning it doesn't announce itself) people will have to really, really think before they try anything: AMC would make them waste a turn if they try to drop a non-status-inducing Secondary, and Guts would make any status-inducing Secondary a figurative suicide move. However, that choice is up to Plus and the community.
Final note for the question about why supporting posts don't line up with votes. I can honestly say I'm almost afraid to post *anywhere* that isn't flavor-centric, because I'm always worried that I'll be breaking the rules, sounding like a total moron (since I have so little experience), or I feel like all my points have already been stated and therefore anything I say will be slapped with the "bandwagon" label and ignored or deleted.
TL;DR: Auto Magic Coat helps CAP9 do what it's supposed to better than the others. Guts works too, but should only be available as a secondary ability IMO. AMC and Guts both being options would be great, but that's not a decision for me to make. Finally, a lot of people (including me) are scared to post because we don't want to break the rules, bandwagon, or look stupid.
As I imgined the strongest probably broken ability is winning.
This isn't create a Pokemon its CAG - create a god.
I'll vote after giving it more thought...
This isn't create a Pokemon its CAG - create a god.
I'll vote after giving it more thought...
WRONG! You did read my post earlier, right? Guts is, by far, the most overpowered ability possible on this pokemon. AMC only works on the switchin.
All three options make it a fantastic "stop the secondary" pokemon. Personally, I like to see the effect of new abilities into the metagame, it is new and exciting to see. Whether "Auto-Magic Coat" is too much for the initial concept or not, isn't something you can prove during playtesting.
As for those who say how much Poison Heal is more for the defensive type of pokemon, I believe they are mistaken, you look at Breloom's 130 Base Attack, and its terrible defensive typing, and tell me how it is in anyway inefficient, appart from Spore, Poison Heal is one of Breloom's greatest attributes, and allows it to use Substitute more than most other pokemon in the game.
Although there a a fair few decent users of Guts, it 1. isn't used on pokemon with high enough usage (looking at Heracross and Hariyama) and/or 2. isn't used on a pokemon where it's secondary ability is superior. Guts makes it an excellent choice for a pokemon that can utilise it better than its fellow Guts users.
After some thought, my vote goes to Auto Magic Coat, my reason being is that it will bring a whole new experience to the table, rather than bring already used concepts back several times over. Don't get me wrong, Guts and Poison Heal stops the secondary pretty well with anti-status abilties and would be effective, but all in all, I would like to see newer concepts brought forward.
As for those who say how much Poison Heal is more for the defensive type of pokemon, I believe they are mistaken, you look at Breloom's 130 Base Attack, and its terrible defensive typing, and tell me how it is in anyway inefficient, appart from Spore, Poison Heal is one of Breloom's greatest attributes, and allows it to use Substitute more than most other pokemon in the game.
Although there a a fair few decent users of Guts, it 1. isn't used on pokemon with high enough usage (looking at Heracross and Hariyama) and/or 2. isn't used on a pokemon where it's secondary ability is superior. Guts makes it an excellent choice for a pokemon that can utilise it better than its fellow Guts users.
After some thought, my vote goes to Auto Magic Coat, my reason being is that it will bring a whole new experience to the table, rather than bring already used concepts back several times over. Don't get me wrong, Guts and Poison Heal stops the secondary pretty well with anti-status abilties and would be effective, but all in all, I would like to see newer concepts brought forward.
For me, it was a tough choice between Guts and AMC. Poison Heal is too defensive of an ability in my opinion. It does not really discourage the opponent from using Status moves, because the worst that is going to happen is that CAP9 gets a free switch in. If CAP9 has either Guts or AMC, then the use of status can severely backfire, and the opponent would be more hesitant to use it.
I think both Guts and AMC are well suited abilities for the concept. Guts turns status into a weapon, and AMC fires it back at the opponent, so both are excellent at stopping the secondary. However, as AMC is so different compared to existing abilities, I'm left wondering just how much we can learn about the standard metagame from it.
Guts gets my vote. There is always the problem of just using a Flame/Toxic Orb sweeper, but keep in mind that if CAP9 holds that, it's not going to be able to combine that power with a Choice item or a Life Orb. For example, most Heracross choose not to use Flame Orb, because the possibility of getting inflicted by status while holding a power boosting item at the same time is too good to pass up. I think it would be the same with CAP9. While this is simple speculation, I think it's about as justified as the "It's just going to run Flame Orb!" arguments I see cropping up everywhere.
I think both Guts and AMC are well suited abilities for the concept. Guts turns status into a weapon, and AMC fires it back at the opponent, so both are excellent at stopping the secondary. However, as AMC is so different compared to existing abilities, I'm left wondering just how much we can learn about the standard metagame from it.
Guts gets my vote. There is always the problem of just using a Flame/Toxic Orb sweeper, but keep in mind that if CAP9 holds that, it's not going to be able to combine that power with a Choice item or a Life Orb. For example, most Heracross choose not to use Flame Orb, because the possibility of getting inflicted by status while holding a power boosting item at the same time is too good to pass up. I think it would be the same with CAP9. While this is simple speculation, I think it's about as justified as the "It's just going to run Flame Orb!" arguments I see cropping up everywhere.
Well I be damned. I come back after a break and we already have Typing, ability poll, and stat submissions. I should have came back eariler. Hmm...all three abilities sounds good but having AMC only working on switch-ins really puts a damper on my opinion on it.
Voted for Auto-Magic Coat.
My reasoning is that if any ability would really stop the secondary, it would be this. Not only status, but almost every other kind of secondary attack. Since CaP 9 is most likely to get taunt as well, the remaining secondary attacks get stopped too, thus filling the purpose of stop the secondary.
I think Auto-Magic Coat should be called "Sand mirror" btw
My reasoning is that if any ability would really stop the secondary, it would be this. Not only status, but almost every other kind of secondary attack. Since CaP 9 is most likely to get taunt as well, the remaining secondary attacks get stopped too, thus filling the purpose of stop the secondary.
I think Auto-Magic Coat should be called "Sand mirror" btw
Not really a fan of any of these, but I voted Guts.
I don't think a pokemon should need a custom ability to stop the secondary - I want to see what CAP9 could do without having to craft a new ability.
Both Guts and Poison Heal, coupled with an offensive bias, tends to make CAP9 become a Flame/Toxic Orb abuser, or simply to become another Breloom (inthe case of Poison Heal).
Personally I would've supported a less all-covering ability like Synchronize - it still punishes those who use status-inducing moves, or at least forces switches on Natural Curers like Blissey and Celebi, which would allow CAP9 to do healthy damage to them on the switch with Pursuit....
Guts is the 'least bad' of the 3 poll abilities; I'm not a fan of a custom ability and Poison Heal would be more likely to produce a Breloom clone in my opinion,so Guts it is for me....though I still think Synchronize would be a nice alternative.
I don't think a pokemon should need a custom ability to stop the secondary - I want to see what CAP9 could do without having to craft a new ability.
Both Guts and Poison Heal, coupled with an offensive bias, tends to make CAP9 become a Flame/Toxic Orb abuser, or simply to become another Breloom (inthe case of Poison Heal).
Personally I would've supported a less all-covering ability like Synchronize - it still punishes those who use status-inducing moves, or at least forces switches on Natural Curers like Blissey and Celebi, which would allow CAP9 to do healthy damage to them on the switch with Pursuit....
Guts is the 'least bad' of the 3 poll abilities; I'm not a fan of a custom ability and Poison Heal would be more likely to produce a Breloom clone in my opinion,so Guts it is for me....though I still think Synchronize would be a nice alternative.
How does Guts fit the concept of "Stop the Secondary" again? Doesn't really stop Burn and Poison from hurting you nor does it stop any other non-damaging move from ruining your day. Poison Heal as the benefit of healing the user by %12 and block other status, but in the end it doesn't stop Taunt and Spike damage from happening. I guess my only choice seem to be AMC despite the illogical call of making it switch-in only.
Well, auto-magic-coat does fit the goal... but I think it will be totally broken. This community really needs to take balance into account when making a pokemon... we already threw it away in stat spreads (the general consensus is we need a fast, bulky, offensively powerful pokemon) and now we have an ability that makes Magic Guard look lame. I partially blame the lack of synergy between different stages of the process, as there is almost no room for long term planning when some parts are set in stone before others are even discussed. I'll save further comments for later, since we usually have these discussions after each CAP.
But if you're running a Toxic Orb with Poison Heal, you could switch into trick users and they'd be poisoned. Same would work with Guts, really.
Auto Magic Coat only works on the switch-in. After that, CAP9 is susceptible to all forms of secondary effect that it isn't already immune to. If you read my earlier post in this thread, you will also see why, even if Auto Magic Coat was permanent, it would still not be all that big an issue.
EDIT: OK, I just looked at the stat spread poll and my reasoning that Guts would break CAP9 is supported by at least three of the four listed spreads. I'm just going to check to see if the one that Guts may be OK on is anywhere near the lead.
EDIT: The spread I was talking about is Petrie911's and so far it is in last place. Thank goodness Guts isn't winning this poll right now.
Guts would just lend itself to making CAP9 primarily a glass-cannon Toxic Orb sweeper, which wouldn't tell us a lot about how stopping the secondary affects the metagame. CAP9 wouldn't be as good at stopping Trick if it had Guts, either, because the Trick user would just have another damaging item to Trick onto one of your Pokemon. A Guts sweeper wouldn't carry Pursuit, so Trick users could switch out with impunity most of the time.
Toxic Orb would lend itself to using Substitute. While Sub stops the secondary by blocking some status, it is a secondary move itself and would suffer from the same problem as Guts with the Toxic Orb and Trick. It would also make CAP9 more defensive than it should be.
Auto Magic Coat, on the other hand, would effectively make people less likely to use status moves early in the game. It would also make Taunt suicide leads not worth using because Auto Magic Coat would reflect Taunt on the first turn. Auto Magic Coat fits with CAP9's purpose the best.
Toxic Orb would lend itself to using Substitute. While Sub stops the secondary by blocking some status, it is a secondary move itself and would suffer from the same problem as Guts with the Toxic Orb and Trick. It would also make CAP9 more defensive than it should be.
Auto Magic Coat, on the other hand, would effectively make people less likely to use status moves early in the game. It would also make Taunt suicide leads not worth using because Auto Magic Coat would reflect Taunt on the first turn. Auto Magic Coat fits with CAP9's purpose the best.
Went with Auto Magic Coat 'cause this CAP is gonna stop the secondary, no? Fits the description. Also, I think it's a neat idea, and it doesn't overpower him.
EDIT: We already know what Guts and Poison Heal would do in the OU tier. The concept of CAP is to experiment and see what would change if ______ happened, or a ______ kind of poke was introduced. This Auto Magic Coat thing is a new concept, so it goes along with the purpose of CAP.
EDIT: We already know what Guts and Poison Heal would do in the OU tier. The concept of CAP is to experiment and see what would change if ______ happened, or a ______ kind of poke was introduced. This Auto Magic Coat thing is a new concept, so it goes along with the purpose of CAP.
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