Cultural assimilation

[Vineon]

Little bothered with opinions conflicting mine about it, stemming from (for example) :

[15:29:00] <Vincent> it is a 7 millions packed minority within a 32 millions countries, it has distinctions that should legitimate a separate state
[15:29:29] <Surgo> what exactly do you gain by seceding
[15:29:33] <Vincent> and frankly, without it, assimilation is hard to fight against
[15:29:44] <cfickle> is that a bad thing?
[15:29:50] <Vincent> I think it is yeah

There has always been problems associated with differences, at the same time cultural exchanges made us evolve the way we did.

Basically, is cultural assimilation a bad thing? Should homogenizing people be favoured over promoting differences? I can understand the multiple cultural clash problems it solves but diversity also brings a lot.

I think every single one of them deserves preservation. As much as I doubt it would or could even potentially get to this point, if we were all to become the same through hundreds of generations of weaker culture assimilation, we'd hit a point where our cultural evolution stops branching.

It needed a trip to the orient for the Europeans to eventually make gunpowder, pasta italian cuisine is usually related (although perhaps only in folklore) to a Marco Polo trip to China. Chinese people are smokers in majority, smoking originating in America and spread throughout the world from the Europeans.

I believe thinking differently, liking different things, having different priorities made us what we are today and we wouldn’t have evolved that much today if we wouldn’t have been different. A lot of that difference, not to say most of it, comes from our culture.

But very little effort is made when it comes to protecting them. Put aside the endangered ones themselves, on the outside, very little people care about them. The majority doesn’t, the majority isn’t concerned, in fact, the majority would prefer them to assimilate.

That’s just wrong; we have a huge registry of endangered animals, it seems more important to protect their diversity than to protect ours. Granted we are all humans at the end, but the benefits of cultural preservation outweigh the problems in my opinion and it should be made just as important to the majority that isn’t threatened as it is to the minority that is fighting to promote its enduring survival.

 

[Basics]

non-resident identity

east is east and west is west/ and never the twain shall meet// i'm running out of patience/ sense my situation/ tense, my ancient body burns/ i learn to bend and turn in self-defence/ self preservation/ cultural invasion/ ethnic mastication/ race-and-nation separation/ face it; nothing sates this age of information// second-generation asian rage/ engaged in recitation/ put my fate into rotation/ mired in contemplation/ tired of waiting for my compensation/ recompense/ i recommence/ i recommend you reconsider your attempts at reconciliation/ rehabilitation/ from your station you catch the scent of rising incense/ thick, but not disguising my societal demise/ my culture's immolation/ it's immense, but then, are you surprised?// NRI/ paradesi/ made to see my race the way they see it/ day-to-day their prostrate grace/ is what i'm faced with/ hate is hastily replaced/ displaced by warm embraces/ great/ but what's it laced with?/ wait until i'm wasted/ seal my fate// exoticize/ eroticize me/ cauterize my conscious highs/ you're carbon-copying me down to size// my star is rising from the east/ my native tongue is unleashed/ scarred/ but each and every part of my speech/ hearkens to the drone of the sitar/ aur kitna beqaraar hai mera intezaar/ it's hard// i'm yearning/ like a cut sardar returning to his turban/ disregard this urban darkness/ i'm unhesitant to learn/ and unconcerned with/ near and far/ it's evident/ that home/ is more than where you are/ a global resident/ remembering the past but living in the present// embers of your pleasant trust/ combust and turn to conscious dust/ we must adjust/ there is/ no justice./ just us.//

NRI: non-resident-Indian, common term for South Asian immigrants
paradesi: Hindi for "stranger", especially to the country, immigrant
"aur kinta ... intezaar": Urdu for "and how chaotic is my wait"
cut sardar: a Sikh who shaves and chooses not to wear a turban


This is a spoken word poem by a guy name Mo Khan who used to go to my school. It might not be the perfect contribution, but it's really beautifully written, and the message is extremely strong.

 

[Bioshock]

I don't really mind cultural assimilation on a minor scale, but I am proud of my culture and I would never want it to be completely assimilated with another.

I remember our teacher saying that the U.S. was a melting pot where all cultures come together. It really isn't a melting pot and I am glad it isn't. Of course I love the fact that sushi is popular here but I wouldn't want to have to start adding kuns, and chans to peoples names.

 

[Vineon]

I don't really mind cultural assimilation on a minor scale, but I am proud of my culture and I would never want it to be completely assimilated with another.

What is on a minor scale exactly, what do you consider minor?

You say you love your culture and wouldn't want it to be assimilated. If it was threatened to, would you fight for it? Do you think special measures should be taken to preserve it? Special rights granted? Even if detrimental to a majority? From this belief, shouldn't you fight for the preservation of other cultures as well? Or its it everybody for himself?

 

[Bioshock]

Hmm, well I would fight to preserve other cultures. You should be proud of your culture, and if you are proud of it you shouldn't want to just completely assimilate with another. I do not think special measures need to be taken, as it is your choice whether or not to assimilate. If it was threatened I might fight depending on the situation.

Also I was raised Jewish so I was raised to believe that assimilation is bad in a variety of ways.

 

[God.]

Different cultures were born of different people being in very different environments with little contact to those outside of that culture. In a global society and economy it is ridiculous to think cultures are going to be as distinct as they were say one hundred years ago. Complete assimilation is probably not going to happen any time soon, but in the future as people travel more, national and racial barriers are diminished, culture will obviously become something very different, as culture is a product of environment, and changing environment means changing culture.

 

[CaptKirby]

Cultures should assimilate the strengths of other cultures while keeping their traditions is probably the most popular view. The problem here is to ask what is a strength - "Americanization" (an awful term, but I am using it for simplicity's sake) can be argued to have ruined the traditional way of life in places like Indonesia and all, while at the same time it has brought them more wealth than they otherwise would have had.

 

[Jackal]

Im gonna focus on Canada, cause thats how this came about i think.

This nation was formed originally as a bi-cultural nation, the coming together of the english and french, if not by choice. This is how we were founded, and this is how we should remain. Now, the truth is most of the french people are in quebec, and the french culture is obviously strong there, but weak in most other places in Canada. I have no problem with them preserving their culture in quebec, and I am even ok with learning french in school, having french text on cereal boxes and such and singing the national anthem in half english and half french.

Now what DOES piss me off is when the quebecois say that this is not enough, and that we should adopt MORE french culture in the rest of canada. We should be able to live in harmony in the same country, you live your way and we will live our way. Our differences should bring us together, not seperate us. The people that want to seperate are just bigots who think they are better than the rest of Canada. Just because you are french does not mean you should be treated special. You are an equal with the added right of speaking whatever language you like, and we are even going as far as making everyone else learn your language in school. That is more than enough.

Whats even worse is OTHER cultures who immigrate to Canada. Yes, we are a mosaic country, and everyone has the right to do what they want. But when these people try to force their culture on us, honestly they should be banned from this country. One example, an indian man who joined the RCMP would NOT wear the uniform because he insisted that because of his culture he needs to wear his turban and body wrap. I wanted to fuckin shoot this guy in the face. The case went to court and iirc he won it. Now, if you want to immigrate to a country that accepts your culture, you dont fucking use yours to overrule theirs. RCMP is tradition, and it was just outrageous that he got away with this. Also when immigrants pull out the racist card, it grinds my gears. For example an indian guy in school complaining that his teacher is racist for giving him low grades...ever think you just arent preforming well?

In conclusion: respect and honour where you came from, but dont force it onto other people, cause in reality they dont care. Patriotism is awesome, but dont let it dictate every decision you make.

 

[Hipmonlee]

Cultures are very difficult to protect because they are very difficult to define. Like, you cant just say speaking french is your culture because then you are just assimilated into french culture rather than quebecese culture..

Have a nice day.

 

[Vineon]

Im gonna focus on Canada, cause thats how this came about i think.

This nation was formed originally as a bi-cultural nation, the coming together of the english and french, if not by choice. This is how we were founded, and this is how we should remain. Now, the truth is most of the french people are in quebec, and the french culture is obviously strong there, but weak in most other places in Canada. I have no problem with them preserving their culture in quebec, and I am even ok with learning french in school, having french text on cereal boxes and such and singing the national anthem in half english and half french.

Now what DOES piss me off is when the quebecois say that this is not enough, and that we should adopt MORE french culture in the rest of canada. We should be able to live in harmony in the same country, you live your way and we will live our way. Our differences should bring us together, not seperate us. The people that want to seperate are just bigots who think they are better than the rest of Canada. Just because you are french does not mean you should be treated special. You are an equal with the added right of speaking whatever language you like, and we are even going as far as making everyone else learn your language in school. That is more than enough.

I was so hoping someone would bring it up on the Canadian level.

Here's the thing: I don’t think Quebecois care or are responsible for french being imposed in the other provinces. Politicians are solely to blame for this, those that insists that Canada remain from coast to coast bilingual, when it has never been. Theres never been a single vote won in Quebec for a MP that promotes french in BC. This was never a will of the Quebecois, especially not of the separatists who'd love no less than Canada finally admitting it isn’t fully bilingual. The people care zero about French being on cereal boxes outside the province. The small french spread minorities outside Quebec might however. However it does serve federalism to make believe Canada is bilingual, when reality is, everybody knows it, it isn’t. In a way, it is done to appease soverainists with a make-believe bilinguism, but, it isn’t something they ever asked for.

You don’t understand Quebec separatism the second you believe they see themselves as something special or something better. That is a terrible generalized through Canada opinion, it hurts me to see this is how it is understood. You just called me a bigot that believes I am better than you are. They see themselves differently, not any better or any worse. The day I will be able to identify with Wayne Gretzky hasnt come yet. Believing we are equals is the reason separation is needed. The word different seems to ruffle so many english feathers, it doesn't need to mean special rights granted. Of course you cant blame some politicians to shoot for the fence from that (seat at the unesco for example). As for being forced to learn french in school, come on now, most school systems throughout the world teach a second language and french is the one that makes the most sense for Canada, obviously. You are allowed to switch on collegial level.

What kind of special treatments are we talking about, got any better example than french being taught outside Quebec or french on Albertan cereal boxes? Because that isn’t special treatment to Quebecois considering it even doesn’t affect them. French outside of Canada is already dead, it was never an issue to Quebec. I really would prefer Canada to dump this costly frenchisation of the country, program that costs billions, promoting a language where it doesn’t exist. The only ones to blame for it to continue are english Canadians, this is who are affected but they never made it an important issue when it comes to elect MPs that would fight against it. If that is really a bother, elect MPs that don’t 180 like Harper did on his Quebec policies, to leech off a few more dozen seats.

Cultures are very difficult to protect because they are very difficult to define. Like, you cant just say speaking french is your culture because then you are just assimilated into french culture rather than quebecese culture..

Have a nice day.

Dont agree, always difficult to define, but always easy to see and recognize.

I can say french is one of the main reason it is different, adding that being in NA is one of the main reason it is different than France's.


Happy new year.

 

[Vineon]

Different cultures were born of different people being in very different environments with little contact to those outside of that culture. In a global society and economy it is ridiculous to think cultures are going to be as distinct as they were say one hundred years ago. Complete assimilation is probably not going to happen any time soon, but in the future as people travel more, national and racial barriers are diminished, culture will obviously become something very different, as culture is a product of environment, and changing environment means changing culture.

Yeah, I agree. I'll never argue we could possibly go back to be as diverse as we were. However, there are still some elements that allow us to keep a certain diversity that should be protected.

Religions & languages being two important ones. Although I'd much more be kin on protecting the latter. Another one is allowing nations to have their own state, or at least legitimizing their claim for one.

 

[monkfish]

My opinion on this is quite simply that variety is very much the spice of life.

 

[Casemarqui]

Quoted for truth

 

[Oprah]

Honestly, diversity brings rage, war, and hatred, and sometimes diversity cannot be controlled (ie: people who are gay are born randomly in any community), so we cannot trully control all forms of diversity, but I believe people will feel safer growing up in a place where they are all the same.

The positive aspect of diversity, however, is having more options. If you grow up in a religion/culture you don't agree with, then you have the freedom to associate with people of other religions/cultures. So you are not stuck living with people who are all the same.

 

[Jackal]

I was so hoping someone would bring it up on the Canadian level.

Here's the thing: I don’t think Quebecois care or are responsible for french being imposed in the other provinces. Politicians are solely to blame for this, those that insists that Canada remain from coast to coast bilingual, when it has never been. Theres never been a single vote won in Quebec for a MP that promotes french in BC. This was never a will of the Quebecois, especially not of the separatists who'd love no less than Canada finally admitting it isn’t fully bilingual. The people care zero about French being on cereal boxes outside the province. The small french spread minorities outside Quebec might however. However it does serve federalism to make believe Canada is bilingual, when reality is, everybody knows it, it isn’t. In a way, it is done to appease soverainists with a make-believe bilinguism, but, it isn’t something they ever asked for.

You don’t understand Quebec separatism the second you believe they see themselves as something special or something better. That is a terrible generalized through Canada opinion, it hurts me to see this is how it is understood. You just called me a bigot that believes I am better than you are. They see themselves differently, not any better or any worse. The day I will be able to identify with Wayne Gretzky hasnt come yet. Believing we are equals is the reason separation is needed. The word different seems to ruffle so many english feathers, it doesn't need to mean special rights granted. Of course you cant blame some politicians to shoot for the fence from that (seat at the unesco for example). As for being forced to learn french in school, come on now, most school systems throughout the world teach a second language and french is the one that makes the most sense for Canada, obviously. You are allowed to switch on collegial level.

What kind of special treatments are we talking about, got any better example than french being taught outside Quebec or french on Albertan cereal boxes? Because that isn’t special treatment to Quebecois considering it even doesn’t affect them. French outside of Canada is already dead, it was never an issue to Quebec. I really would prefer Canada to dump this costly frenchisation of the country, program that costs billions, promoting a language where it doesn’t exist. The only ones to blame for it to continue are english Canadians, this is who are affected but they never made it an important issue when it comes to elect MPs that would fight against it. If that is really a bother, elect MPs that don’t 180 like Harper did on his Quebec policies, to leech off a few more dozen seats.

fair enough, i guess "bigot" was a little harsh, but it is not like life in Canada is so bad and you guys have so much to complain about. A lot more could be accomplished in Canadian politics if this topic wasnt always being pushed to the forefront (it seems to have calmed down now but it always pops back up at election time).

If the issue here is not that you want the rest of Canada to aknowledge and learn your culture/language, what is it that you want? What change could be made in Canada that would make you want to stay with us?

Also for the record, im not some English prick who wants Quebec to leave, French is only required up until grade 9, but i still take it because i like the language and know that it is important to realize that Canada is technically bilingual, even though it is questionable that French actually has any real world application living in Toronto.

 

[Vineon]

fair enough, i guess "bigot" was a little harsh, but it is not like life in Canada is so bad and you guys have so much to complain about. A lot more could be accomplished in Canadian politics if this topic wasnt always being pushed to the forefront (it seems to have calmed down now but it always pops back up at election time).

If the issue here is not that you want the rest of Canada to aknowledge and learn your culture/language, what is it that you want? What change could be made in Canada that would make you want to stay with us?

Also for the record, im not some English prick who wants Quebec to leave, French is only required up until grade 9, but i still take it because i like the language and know that it is important to realize that Canada is technically bilingual, even though it is questionable that French actually has any real world application living in Toronto.

Basically all I seek is the acknowledgement that Quebec has what it takes to legimately poll his population on secession and if it passes, let it do it. That legitimacy is disputed (or "made impossible" with anti-democratic laws, see Clarity Act) and that is where my problem lies.

Canada doesn't owe Quebec any special favor, it shouldn't grant it any. I'd favor any form of independence over staying in Canada because the end result is still Canada governing Quebec. If it is to stay in Canada however, I'd favor more rights to the provinces. The one I would want most to be of provincial level is immigration. Simply because Canada controlling it is in direct conflict with Quebec attempting to preserve itself.

I basically am in favor of nearly everything that in my head equals protecting french (in Québec) and it's distinct nature. Every amendment of every law we passed concerning it came from the Supreme Court of Canada. We're just not in the best environment to be able to do it effectively within this country.

If you believe this is always put to the forefront in Canadian politics I let you imagine how it is in Québec, where the population is split 50/50 about it. There is only one clear way to end it. I love Canada and feel both countries could be the best of allies, but I just can't identify to it. A good divorce is better than a bad marriage.

 

[Nekada]

There was a program about this in England recently called 'Make Me A Muslim'. Basically, a muslim man decided that Islam was the best way to stop english people from being promiscuous, drinking excessively and all these social negatives. He got about 20 english people from a predominantly white town to try being muslims for a couple of weeks.

This is quite easily the most angry i've ever been at something on television. The first problem Jackal already mentioned, is that this muslim man has come to England and decided that they NEED to convert to Islam in order to live properly. When he talked to the participants, he insulted their old lifestyles and professed the benefits of Islam to them constantly. That wasn't giving them the chance to decide, it was forced indoctrination.

However, despite the idiotic behaviour of him, the English people were even worse. One woman repeatedly used expressions like "He's trying to get us with Islam!" The hell?! It was just outright nationalism/ racism.

I guess i'm pretty torn on the issue. On the one hand, I believe that introducing new cultures (such as immigrants) into another is a negative because quite simply, it is your history and traditions they are changing. But on the other hand, sometimes this is for the best. I guess i'm more opposed to the attitude and actual way people do it than the actual transition.

 

[Jackal]

Basically all I seek is the acknowledgement that Quebec has what it takes to legimately poll his population on secession and if it passes, let it do it. That legitimacy is disputed (or "made impossible" with anti-democratic laws, see Clarity Act) and that is where my problem lies.

Canada doesn't owe Quebec any special favor, it shouldn't grant it any. I'd favor any form of independence over staying in Canada because the end result is still Canada governing Quebec. If it is to stay in Canada however, I'd favor more rights to the provinces. The one I would want most to be of provincial level is immigration. Simply because Canada controlling it is in direct conflict with Quebec attempting to preserve itself.

I basically am in favor of nearly everything that in my head equals protecting french (in Québec) and it's distinct nature. Every amendment of every law we passed concerning it came from the Supreme Court of Canada. We're just not in the best environment to be able to do it effectively within this country.

If you believe this is always put to the forefront in Canadian politics I let you imagine how it is in Québec, where the population is split 50/50 about it. There is only one clear way to end it. I love Canada and feel both countries could be the best of allies, but I just can't identify to it. A good divorce is better than a bad marriage.

im not gonna bring up past referendums, because that is the past! But really, in my opinion, it should not be the decision of Quebecs, it should be the decision of all of Canada. If there was a poll and 53% of the people living in Texas want Texas to be sovereign, that doesnt mean its necesarily right or fair to the other states. If a poll was going to be taken, poll all of Canada. Quebec is a part of the Canadian economy, we need you and you need us economically.

Also, you again mention "Quebec is still governed by Canada". I don't see why this is such a bad thing. Granted, I dont have all the information here, I am admitting that, I have been to Quebec once. So what is so bad about being governed by Canada, it seems to work just fine for me! Also, give some examples of Quebec culture being lost within quebec, because when I did go "in the walls" of quebec city, it appeared a very cultural place. This isnt ignorance, trust me no one here is exposed to problem you may be going through.

Edit: also at the end there you say you love Canada, but i find that a little weird if you cannot identify with people like gretzky, someone every Canadian should be proud of

 

[Firestorm]

Think it was pretty obvious this came out of a Quebec/Canada issue.

The thing I don't fully understand is what seperating Quebec will achieve. I admit I don't know exactly what Quebec wants because I'm pretty far away from there. Is it due to how prevalent English is in the province? Even if Quebec becomes its own "nation within a nation" I don't see it changing too much. The countries of the world have crossed so much that English has become the closest thing to a universal language. If you look at any country and compare their usage of English to a Canadian's French (other than Quebec) or American's Spanish, it's amazing how much further along they are.

I just feel like there's no way to escape English from taking over as pretty much everyone's first or second language. What does sort of annoy me is how parents seem to think they need to start teaching their kids English even before their own language. This is a really bad path to take. I know plenty of people just a few years younger than me who can't speak our first language (Tamil). This is because their parents, psycho-school-is-the-most-important-thing-in-the-world types, want them to learn English first to do well in school. English is easily picked up if you're in an environment where it's the dominant language. I didn't speak a word of English until Elementary school. That's the only reason I think I can still speak my mother tongue on a semi-fluent level.

I think I went off on a tangent here, but what I'm trying to say is I do believe preserving one's language is important. But I'm not sure if separating Quebec from Canada would achieve that.

 

[obi]

Before this debate can really progress meaningfully (unless the topic is actually "Should Quebec be its own nation?" in disguise), you'll have to define culture.

As it is, I don't find cultural assimilation to be inherently good or bad, it just is. To me, that question makes as much sense as "Is green wallpaper good or bad?".

That said, if a piece of culture is language, then I'm in favor of assimilation there. I would love to have everyone on Earth speaking the same language.

If by culture you mean the way you dress, that to me is more a function of the climate. As long as the clothing people are generally wearing is comfortable and climate appropriate, I really don't care what style it is.

If it's religion, then on this one I'd like to have many religions from a purely pragmatic perspective. I'm not a believer, and it's not likely that a majority of people will be like-minded in the near future, so if there are many different religions, then perhaps I would be treated with a bit more respect, if for no reason other than that people would have their xenophobia spread out over everyone, so I wouldn't have too much greater a share of it due to religion.

 

[Vineon]

im not gonna bring up past referendums, because that is the past! But really, in my opinion, it should not be the decision of Quebecs, it should be the decision of all of Canada. If there was a poll and 53% of the people living in Texas want Texas to be sovereign, that doesnt mean its necesarily right or fair to the other states. If a poll was going to be taken, poll all of Canada. Quebec is a part of the Canadian economy, we need you and you need us economically.

Also, you again mention "Quebec is still governed by Canada". I don't see why this is such a bad thing. Granted, I dont have all the information here, I am admitting that, I have been to Quebec once. So what is so bad about being governed by Canada, it seems to work just fine for me! Also, give some examples of Quebec culture being lost within quebec, because when I did go "in the walls" of quebec city, it appeared a very cultural place. This isnt ignorance, trust me no one here is exposed to problem you may be going through.

Edit: also at the end there you say you love Canada, but i find that a little weird if you cannot identify with people like gretzky, someone every Canadian should be proud of

I don't agree. I think what it comes down to when seeking legitimacy to secede on cultural grounds is to prove that you are different and threatened in your current environment. Quebec can do that.

We do need each other, I agree, but we don't necessarily need each other to be one country.

A lot of Quebec's distinction comes from its language, coupled with being a state in America. That is what separates it from Canada, and what separates it from France. What it results in is an entirely different culture. For example, very rarely something from France has ever been popular here. Canada can’t even claim that, as most of its culture simply is a cell off America's, adding a few things like hockey. This language is threatened and is decline, because Quebec cannot protect it properly, because it is in Canada. The Supreme Court making amendments to our language laws and immigration being two examples. With the language is gone, Quebec americanises and vanishes. I want it to flourish, not vanish.

I don't see what is so weird about being unable to identify with Gretzky. I am not an English Canadian, I identify with Mario Lemieux, who I am very proud of. I can recognize Gretzky was formidable but I don't feel that fuzzy feeling inside that he is one of ours. I can identify with Gretzky about as much as I can identify to Barry Bonds.

 

[Vineon]

I think I went off on a tangent here, but what I'm trying to say is I do believe preserving one's language is important. But I'm not sure if separating Quebec from Canada would achieve that.

It certainly would be better tooled to and it would be silly to deny it.

Controlling its immigration allows for example to select french speaking immigrants. There are tons of countries to pick from, from Haiti, to Algeria, Morocco, Cambodia, European countries. That would allow the Quebec culture to not sink deeper with every immigrating wave. Granting selective immigration for Quebec is already being done but it certainly isn't at its peak.

I am bringing this for the 3rd time, but when the Supreme Court of Canada can amend any Quebec law like it sees fit, and it has many times, you ought to think Quebec would rather not have that perpetual spine on its foot.
Most of the amendments were made to language laws like Bill 101.

On a recognition level, Quebec gains from separating. There has to be a positive from being on your own on a world map. For example, how many Americans are totally unaware there even is a french state on their own continent.

 

[Vineon]

That said, if a piece of culture is language, then I'm in favor of assimilation there. I would love to have everyone on Earth speaking the same language.

If by culture you mean the way you dress, that to me is more a function of the climate. As long as the clothing people are generally wearing is comfortable and climate appropriate, I really don't care what style it is.

If it's religion, then on this one I'd like to have many religions from a purely pragmatic perspective. I'm not a believer, and it's not likely that a majority of people will be like-minded in the near future, so if there are many different religions, then perhaps I would be treated with a bit more respect, if for no reason other than that people would have their xenophobia spread out over everyone, so I wouldn't have too much greater a share of it due to religion.

Culture, I'd define by what you are, the way you think, the way you live. It manifests in arts, habits, entertainment. Anything that makes your people in general different from others.

Culture is not language. If culture was language, Quebec would be France. Easiest comparison you can make is the United States and Britain, or Brazil and Portugal. They share a language but remain very different. However, languages still play a huge part, religion also does, they influence culture, but they aren't the only variables. But as being important variables, they should be protected.

I would not make a correlation with clothing either. Not so sure where you digged that from.

You are fine with english alone wherever you go on the globe, 'everybody speaking the same language' almost already is a reality. I find promoting english as a 2nd language to everyone to be a good idea and that is pretty much what is going on. In the meanwhile, because I believe language plays too much of a part in avoiding homogenization of our race, it should not be promoted as the only language. I just dont see a trip around Europe to be as interresting if everybody speaks the same language, while there would still be distinctions between countries, I feel they'd become more and more subtle.

 

[Jackal]

if the immigration in quebec is anything like the immigration in Toronto, I can see why the language might take a hit, yeah. This is happening all around the world though, immigration is a larger scale problem than keeping people out of quebec.

For me personally, i would always rather look forward and revolutionize than look backwards and try to standardize. The (sad) truth is that, as obi said, the time WILL come when everyone speaks the same language. We all used to come from different places, which meant we had different cultures, but now with the interconnectedness of the world, with the internet, trade, immigration and all these things, it is impossible to sit still and try and preserve what you have and try and keep everything out. Its all about moving forward.

Vineon, here is where I am coming from. My grandparents came from Italy, and settled in Toronto with nothing. A mere two generations later, I am an upper class citizen with all the education and opportunities in the world. I have experienced Italian culture through my grandparents, it is great. But really, now that I am here, I might as well be of English descent, the only thing really differentiating me from the next "english canadian" is my last name. There is a very large italian community here in Toronto, and they preserve the culture as best they can, but the new wave italian-canadians (my generation) has completely become assimilated into Canadian culture. Does that bother me to see that all this culture and tradition my grandparents brought over here is lost? Yes, but I cant live my life trying to dwell on that. My grandparents cook the best italian food, will I be able to keep these culinary skills alive? Nope. Will I be able to preserve the language? Nope. What I do have though is opportunity. I am much better off than the people of my generation who stayed in Italy. It is only a matter of time before the english language starts becoming more dominant there. My grandparents were the forethinkers, they saw ahead, and realized resistance was feutile, and they wanted the best life for me. I cannot thank them enough for it. And it is time quebec realized this, and started trying to embrace the future rather than try and stay in the past.

THAT is my opinion. Canada is a nation united. I feel the exact same patriotism for gretzky (from ontario) as I do for lemieux (quebec) as I do jarome iginla (alberta) as I do for andrew cogliano (an Italian Canadian from Toronto). Its about time Quebec did too.

dont hate, this is just how i see it.

 

[Vineon]

That is a nice comparison but there is a difference of size here between Quebec and the italian community in Toronto. I'm not worried about the italians, they have Italy. Quebec isn't Canada's french chinatown, or France's american outpost; it is a nation in its own right. Like Italy, not like the italian community of Toronto, not like the french spread outside Quebec.

When you immigrate, you make the choice to assimilate. When your parents came to Canada, they made that choice. I'm sure they attempt to retain a certain italian flavour but they accept and want to become canadian. Usually the second generation is entirely assimilated.

What makes you think you are so better off than your generation in Italy. Last I checked, it wasn't a third world country, you are almost talking as if it was. As if Canada was a land of opportunities while Italy is on a great collapse.

I want immigrants in Quebec to assimilate to Quebec, not to Canada. I don't want to stop people from immigrating here. There is immigrants better suited for that than others. Immigrants with a french background. Only then do I feel Quebec's distinction isn't weakening. Canada picks it's immigrants, I want Quebec to be able to do that. Perhaps it is inevitable, perhaps it even is for the best but I am not convinced about it yet. I believe the world gets more from diversity. English spread to become the international language. It is clear everybody picks it as their second language but I haven't seen signs it would take over whole languages which would lead to the whole world speaking it as their first and only language. People are attached to what makes them unique, I just don't see it happening. Not when they have the means to prevent it.