Other Tiers Fancy Cup and Light Cup Discussion Thread

[MeepBard]

Approved by 16bit​

Introduction
Generation IV introduced a plethora of new, official battle rules that could be chosen for matches at the Pokémon Communication Club inside any Pokémon Center. These included the Standard Cup and Doubles Cup rulesets, which would both later be reworked into the rulesets used for the standard random matchmaking battle modes in Generation V onwards, the GS Cup, which was introduced in HGSS and still exists today in VGC, and Little Cup which certainly needs no introduction.

However, among these relatively known battle rules, there are two extremely unknown formats with rather unique Pokémon restrictions involving weight and even height that have not reappeared since: Fancy Cup, a modern spin on Petit Cup from Pokémon Stadium, and Light Cup, a brand new ruleset created for the Generation IV games. These formats received very little exploration and play during Generation IV's shelf life, and I for one think they deserve to get that exploration now!

Click here to jump to Fancy Cup
Click here to jump to Light Cup ​

 

[MeepBard]

Fancy Cup
A format for cute Pokémon, Fancy Cup is characterized by its unique "level sum" limit similar to early Nintendo Cup formats and its restrictions on height and weight.​

Rules

• Bring 3 format. Pokémon must be level 30 or lower to participate.
  • The three Pokémon chosen can range from levels 1-30, but the total sum of the team's levels must be equal to 80 or lower.
• The Pokémon cannot exceed a weight of 20 kg (44.1 lbs) and a height of 2 m (6'07").
• The Pokémon must be in their lowest stage of evolution. This does not exclude Pokémon that are not part of an evolutionary line like Farfetch'd or Rotom.
• Clauses: Species Clause, Item Clause, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, Self-KO Clause
• Banlist:
  • Uxie, Mesprit and Azelf (as they cannot be obtained at or below level 30)
  • Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Phione, Manaphy, Shaymin

Eligible Pokémon

136 Pokémon are eligible for Fancy Cup.

Challenge command

/challenge gen4anythinggoes @@@@ Species Clause, Item Clause, Sleep Clause Mod, Freeze Clause Mod, Max Level = 30, Max Total Level = 80, Min Team Size = 3, Max Team Size = 3, -all Pokemon, +Abra, +Aipom, +Anorith, +Azurill, +Barboach, +Bellsprout, +Bidoof, +Bonsly, +Budew, +Bulbasaur, +Buneary, +Burmy, +Castform, +Caterpie, +Charmander, +Chatot, +Cherubi, +Chikorita, +Chimchar, +Chinchou, +Chingling, +Cleffa, +Combee, +Corphish, +Corsola, +Cubone, +Cyndaquil, +Delibird, +Diglett, +Ditto, +Dratini, +Drifloon, +Dunsparce, +Duskull, +Eevee, +Ekans, +Electrike, +Exeggcute, +Farfetch’d, +Feebas, +Finneon, +Gastly, +Geodude, +Glameow, +Goldeen, +Growlithe, +Gulpin, +Hoppip, +Horsea, +Houndour, +Igglybuff, +Illumise, +Kabuto, +Koffing, +Krabby, +Kricketot, +Ledyba, +Lotad, +Luvdisc, +Machop, +Magikarp, +Magnemite, +Mareep, +Mawile, +Meditite, +Meowth, +Mime Jr., +Minun, +Misdreavus, +Mudkip, +Murkrow, +Natu, +Nidoran-F, +Nidoran-M, +Nincada, +Oddish, +Omanyte, +Pachirisu, +Paras, +Pichu, +Pidgey, +Pineco, +Piplup, +Plusle, +Poliwag, +Poochyena, +Psyduck, +Qwilfish, +Ralts, +Rattata, +Remoraid, +Rotom, +Sableye, +Sandshrew, +Seedot, +Sentret, +Shellder, +Shellos, +Shinx, +Shroomish, +Shuppet, +Skitty, +Skorupi, +Smoochum, +Snorunt, +Snubbull, +Spearow, +Spinarak, +Spinda, +Squirtle, +Starly, +Stunky, +Sunkern, +Surskit, +Swablu, +Swinub, +Taillow, +Teddiursa, +Togepi, +Torchic, +Totodile, +Trapinch, +Treecko, +Turtwig, +Unown, +Volbeat, +Voltorb, +Vulpix, +Weedle, +Whismur, +Wingull, +Wooper, +Wurmple, +Wynaut, +Zigzagoon, +Zubat

 

[MeepBard]

Light Cup
This format is weight-based like Fancy Cup and limits Pokémon to their earliest evolutionary stage, but does not place any specific restrictions on height and has a much higher limit on weight. Additionally, there are no restrictions placed on the sum of the team's level.
The destructive Latis! The brilliant Zapdos! The elegant Cresselia! All of these are allowed - we're not in cute territory anymore!​

Rules

• Bring 3 format. Pokémon must be level 50 or lower to participate.
• The Pokémon cannot exceed a weight of 99 kg (218 lbs).
• The Pokémon must be in their lowest stage of evolution. This does not exclude Pokémon that are not part of an evolutionary line like Absol or Heracross, nor Legendary Pokémon like Latios or Cresselia.
• Clauses: Species Clause, Item Clause
• Banlist:
  • Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Phione, Manaphy, Shaymin, Darkrai

Eligible Pokémon

212 Pokémon are eligible for Light Cup.

Challenge command

/challenge gen4anythinggoes @@@@ Species Clause, Item Clause, Max Level = 50, Min Team Size = 3, Max Team Size = 3, -all Pokemon, +Abra, +Absol, +Aerodactyl, +Aipom, +Anorith, +Aron, +Articuno, +Azelf, +Azurill, +Bagon, +Baltoy, +Barboach, +Beldum, +Bellsprout, +Bidoof, +Bonsly, +Bronzor, +Budew, +Buizel, +Bulbasaur, +Buneary, +Burmy, +Cacnea, +Carnivine, +Carvanha, +Castform, +Caterpie, +Charmander, +Chatot, +Cherubi, +Chikorita, +Chimchar, +Chinchou, +Chingling, +Clamperl, +Cleffa, +Combee, +Corphish, +Corsola, +Cranidos, +Cresselia, +Croagunk, +Cubone, +Cyndaquil, +Delibird, +Diglett, +Ditto, +Doduo, +Dratini, +Drifloon, +Drowzee, +Dunsparce, +Duskull, +Eevee, +Ekans, +Electrike, +Elekid, +Exeggcute, +Farfetch’d, +Feebas, +Finneon, +Gastly, +Geodude, +Gible, +Girafarig, +Glameow, +Gligar, +Goldeen, +Grimer, +Growlithe, +Gulpin, +Happiny, +Heracross, +Hippopotas, +Hoothoot, +Hoppip, +Horsea, +Houndour, +Igglybuff, +Illumise, +Kabuto, +Kangaskhan, +Kecleon, +Koffing, +Krabby, +Kricketot, +Larvitar, +Latias, +Latios, +Ledyba, +Lickitung, +Lileep, +Lotad, +Luvdisc, +Machop, +Magby, +Magikarp, +Magnemite, +Makuhita, +Mankey, +Mantyke, +Mareep, +Mawile, +Meditite, +Meowth, +Mesprit, +Miltank, +Mime Jr., +Minun, +Misdreavus, +Moltres, +Mudkip, +Murkrow, +Natu, +Nidoran-F, +Nidoran-M, +Nincada, +Nosepass, +Numel, +Oddish, +Omanyte, +Pachirisu, +Paras, +Phanpy, +Pichu, +Pidgey, +Pineco, +Pinsir, +Piplup, +Plusle, +Poliwag, +Ponyta, +Poochyena, +Porygon, +Psyduck, +Qwilfish, +Ralts, +Rattata, +Relicanth, +Remoraid, +Riolu, +Rotom, +Sableye, +Sandshrew, +Scyther, +Seedot, +Seel, +Sentret, +Seviper, +Shellder, +Shellos, +Shieldon, +Shinx, +Shroomish, +Shuckle, +Shuppet, +Skarmory, +Skitty, +Skorupi, +Slakoth, +Slowpoke, +Slugma, +Smeargle, +Smoochum, +Sneasel, +Snorunt, +Snover, +Snubbull, +Spearow, +Spheal, +Spinarak, +Spinda, +Spoink, +Squirtle, +Stantler, +Starly, +Staryu, +Stunky, +Sunkern, +Surskit, +Swablu, +Swinub, +Taillow, +Tangela, +Tauros, +Teddiursa, +Tentacool, +Togepi, +Torchic, +Torkoal, +Totodile, +Trapinch, +Treecko, +Turtwig, +Tyrogue, +Unown, +Uxie, +Venonat, +Volbeat, +Voltorb, +Vulpix, +Weedle, +Whismur, +Wingull, +Wooper, +Wurmple, +Wynaut, +Yanma, +Zangoose, +Zapdos, +Zigzagoon, +Zubat

 

[Dridri457]

i tried a bit fancy cup, misdreavus looks hella strong with all its stats and nasty plot, u can play lum or colbur, and since your opponent can only have 1 focus sash, it's hard to stop
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4anythinggoes-2079926988-4ddggej9v863lag4evmm0qekwwbgz2xpw https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4anythinggoes-2079929712-3udp4aii3mg70k51fhjt6f5a44i0bpkpw https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4anythinggoes-2079931585-vxiv5uekufq93o29fnlat279ren5znopw

 

[MeepBard]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4anythinggoes-2079926988-4ddggej9v863lag4evmm0qekwwbgz2xpw https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4anythinggoes-2079929712-3udp4aii3mg70k51fhjt6f5a44i0bpkpw https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4anythinggoes-2079931585-vxiv5uekufq93o29fnlat279ren5znopw

very fun games, thank you for sharing them here and for giving the tier a shot!! mawile went crazy in that last game, i underestimated the value of having a decent steel type in this meta :O

i've done a lot of theorymonning on fancy cup and i think rotom might be top 1. it's by far the strongest special attacker in the tier, sports great bulk and coverage, and can run quite a few sets convincingly - scarf, specs and even kasib berry for opposing rotom and misdreavus or colbur berry for opposing sucker punch seem viable. there's some counterplay though - spdef dunsparce can switch into shadow ball and shrugs off non-specs attacks thanks to roost while also threatening rotom with a yawn or even a calm mind:

Lvl 30 252+ SpA Rotom Hidden Power Fighting vs. Lvl 30 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dunsparce: 44-52 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

sableye can also OHKO max HP rotom with payback, and has just enough bulk to survive one specs thunderbolt:

Lvl 30 184+ Atk Sableye Payback (100 BP) vs. Lvl 30 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom: 98-116 (100 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lvl 30 252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom Thunderbolt vs. Lvl 30 64 HP / 252 SpD Sableye: 69-82 (82.1 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

it can also opt to 2HKO it with sucker punch, which allows it to invest more in bulk (lv28 sableye can 2HKO max hp / spatk lv30 rotom with sucker punch and no attack investment). murkrow and houndour can also pick off a weakened rotom with sucker punch or pursuit, and the two share many similarities in this role - murkrow sports significantly better attack and reliable recovery in roost in addition to being immune to sleep, while houndour is able to potentially switch into a choice-locked rotom-H's overheat and has better dark STAB options in crunch and dark pulse.

aside from rotom & co though, here's an unsorted list of some other pokemon i've thought about:

• - wynaut's ability to trade itself in return for KOing dangerous threats with sash makes it a worthy consideration for any team, but the real draw of having wynaut is that it is so one-dimensional that you can very easily run it at level 20 so that the rest of your team's able to reach the maximum level of 30 and it'll still perform just fine, so removing the strain on levels is certainly very appealing! the catch with wynaut is that it's extremely easy to outplay - misdreavus can run taunt to beat it, and non-choice rotom variants can even run toxic to prevent it from KOing with mirror coat or destiny bond. at the end of the day though, why not wynaut?
• - qwilfish can set rain for itself and immediately start punching holes with rain boosted max attack waterfalls. explosion and destiny bond make even a low HP qwilfish something to fear, and just the threat of having destiny bond can probably induce some tricky mindgames with rain up. double boom with lead damp rock voltorb + qwilfish might be a thing, but i'm not completely sold on that in a tier where ghost types are this good
• - abra's shaping up to be the best screener in the tier for the sole reason that there are practically no other screeners in the tier. depending on how valuable screens may be abra certainly excels in this role, and 3v3 means that being forced to run sash instead of light clay isn't too big of an issue. it's also fairly strong offensively - shadow ball coming from lv28 abra can even 2HKO max hp lv30 rotom!
• - nasty plot + thunderbolt coming off of a threat as fast and strong as plusle with practically no ground types to speak of is already a scary thought, but perhaps the scariest thought is that it's able to freely baton pass into scarf rotom, who's already very difficult to handle at +0!
• - bulbasaur is the second fastest user of sleep powder in the tier behind hoppip (though with base 45 speed the competition isn't particularly stiff...), so that maybe gives it a niche as a lead? it dreads murkrow however, who's immune to sleep and can switch into an oncoming sleep powder while OHKOing it in return; though with sash, bulbasaur can KO it with overgrow boosted leaf storm after brave bird recoil depending on the level gap. scarf might be worth looking into as well - a level 29 scarfed max speed bulbasaur can outspeed all non-scarf rotom variants and put them to sleep.

i haven't done as much thinking about light cup, but soul dew being legal means latios is easily the king of the tier. sneasel, absol, banded azelf and scarf heracross all seem like viable checks for their ability to at the very least threaten it with a kill (sneasel and azelf are unique among these answers for their ability to outspeed latios without the need for scarf) and spdef cresselia seems to be the only realistic defensive answer. smeargle also seems like an alright lead especially in a meta with no sleep clause - maybe with spore + metal burst?

very much appreciate the interest in these very strange rulesets! feel free to @ me in the DPP discord for games

 

[Charliezard7]

was searching for light and fancy cup info and stumbled upon this. This is awesome dude. I'll start building teams

 

[BlueGold]

Back on HG, I'll give a try at Fancy Cup. Looks fun with the possibility to have a L30 joker like in the old days of Poke Cup where it was possible to have a L55 joker.

[EDIT]

MeepBard ,
Whismur is missing in the list of eligible Pokémon for the Fancy Cup.

 

[MeepBard]

[EDIT]

MeepBard ,
Whismur is missing in the list of eligible Pokémon for the Fancy Cup.

fixed, thank you!

 

[Charliezard7]

Quick doubles game I played vs Meiling:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4doublescustomgame-2103289152?p

Lol coming from DPP LC I thought Oran Berry was gonna be legit here but it just recovered 10%. Level 30 changes stuff