Here comes the FAT

[kd24]

this team is by no means perfect, but i've been using it a lot recently and i really enjoy it - it keeps up my defensive personality but uses some mons that deserve more love (primarily bigmence and latias). no i didnt use this in st8 but i definitely wish i would have (i made the team the day after V_V)

Team at a Glance!

Team Building
i started this team with wanting to showcase defensive salamence, basically because it covers a lot of things that are really good to have covered. its mostly how i start most of my teams so i was happy i finally got around to building around him. but i knew i had to separate my mence from dnite so it made wish pretty mandatory - with wish, i knew i wanted a defensive team anyway but now i could work on a stall team that could fall back on mence to deal with big threats like breloom. because one of my favorite sets in dppt was the wishmence with toxic, i knew thats exactly the kind of mence i wanted, especially because i hate toxic spikes (no the actual move is really good!, but i really dislike the mons who lay it if you aren't using rain). i didn't know what the final move would be (although i had a really good idea!) so i waited.

from there, i had the obvious "you need sr and spikes". well this wasn't too hard to pick my stealth rocker....there is no pokemon in the meta right now than heatran at setting up stealth rock, and it has perfect typing with mence except for rock meaning i can get plenty of chances to stealth rock (typing doesn't mean much but it does when i need hazards!) and that led perfectly into my spiker - ferrothorn. not only does he resist rock, but he actually handles threats to the current team like surf/ice beam starmie.

going back to mence, the introduction of sr and spikes pretty much forced my hand to use dragon tail which was fine by me...mence has no business trying to use sweeping moves anyway when i was pretty set into just investing defense.

now i had a weakness to terrakion, ice punch lucario, sd ice fang gliscor, (among others!) - there was no better choice than bringing in starmie and jellicent, both provide valuable spin support (rapid spin and anti-spin) while pretty much countering the above threats. i really happy they both found a spot on my team (i love jellicent but i never really get a chance to use it because it doesnt fit often). both of these water-types also gave me a solid answer to defensive heatran who completely walled my team without a doubt..i now had 2 answers (starmie moreso than jellicent because of a stronger surf, natural cure, and higher speed).

i now had this team basically figured out but i had no idea what to use in the last slot..looking at my team though, sun teams and dragon teams were no good - so why not use my last slot to cover these weaknesses but also give me a way to beat other stall with trick. this is where scarf latias came in, another pokemon i really wanted to use eventually.

so ya dunno how interesting that was to you but now you know xD

DA TEAM

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SDef / 160 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Lava Plume
- Roar

like i said, this is da boss tran, an absolute monster when it comes to special defense and stealth rocking. because of his unique typing, he can come in on a ton of pokemon like ferrothorn, skarm, and jirachi .. all of these switch-ins are pretty obvious. i never want to sac heatran early unless i see sr helps and he'll be useless. however, thats only in extreme situations where i can see latias + starmie pretty much clean up with sr on the field.

i really wanted to use toxic, but roar gives me a reliable phazing move with salamence and its easy to predict when a spinner like tentacruel comes in, so being able to constantly force it out is big for me. if anything has been useless, its protect, but it helps stall out dual screens (heh this isnt that relevant now) but it also gives me a way to scout certain moves like vs choiced rotom-w, latios, haxorus, etc...

set is the one i try to promote the most, because scizor with speed is a huge threat to any team...not risking it. that speed also helps vs slower tran that are for some reason slower so i can roar them out.

Salamence (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef / 36 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Wish
- Toxic
- Dragon Tail
- Protect

here is champ of the team.. you can try and counter him but his bulk and dragon tail will just take you out :naughty:. wish toxic protect mence works just as well as similar sets (like even blissey) except im actually fast to outspeed jellicent and poison it. the set is to pretty much maximize his defensive bulk because of how useful intimidate it (one of the things that sets him apart from dnite)

the reason i like this set more than dnite is because its so much more of a team player. intimidate and wish are useful to anyone, yet dnite is more a stand alone "i can help clean up" .. i don't really like that, so mence is the better all around option here.

Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Protect

well not much to explain here, but he covers a lot of threats like dragons, non hp fire latias, starmie, etc. i guess gyro ball is pretty good, but ferrothorn is still a reliable answer to jellicent especially when it's poisoned by mence first (the jelli has to make 2 50/50s to come out on top for a while but will still be in trouble). along with power whips ability to take out slow pokemon too, it just made more sense.

the female nature ensures that haxorus isn't a gay xD...not really much to say here.

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover
- Scald

ah, i hate this thing :). as jibaku can attest to, ive been constantly beaten solely by this thing in early b/w when im not prepared for it (although im not using the wicked cursed body set). the reason i really like water absorb here though is that it helps protect vs tentacruel so he cant burn me with scald, preventing the burn. i might be overpreparing for scizor with 100 speed, but i don't really see why you wouldnt.

jellicent is my most reliable answer to stall-teams because of his speed and taunt...he also is part of the 2 man bulky water duo (its funny but i am running a f/w/g trio with a second water and 2 dragons xD).

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 240 HP / 16 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Ice Beam

my spinner! normally, youd see starmie using offensive sets and max special attack... i dont really need it. the bulk allows me to handle heatran (who is a big threat to this team) a lot better because surf recover would handle it more reliably. i find with starmie, im just using my stab on super-effective attacks.

the extra bulk has been useful in surviving pursuits from things like ttar and krookadile when i stay in, and then i can hit back with surf (more on ttar later). you may wonder why i didnt go for tbolt considering i already do handle dragons very well...well gyarados, jellicent, and tentacruel just aren't that big of threats to me, not when dragons literally dominate the meta...all it takes is a well played mixmence or scizor + dragons to really hurt this team so im not having any of it. ice beam also gives me coverage vs life orb hp fire latios who could be a really annoyance to this team. also hits breloom x)

Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Trick
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock

probably one of the best sets ive used...usually i try and suggest to people using scarf latios but im thinking this might be better...the extra bulk and surprise gives you a huge edge when you can easily revenge things like +1 haxorus and the people just think you are out of options. with latias, i handle sun a lot better because venusaur is walled and then hit hard by psyshock.

draco meteor is for stab and its hugely important when scarfed because it makes sure i ko pretty much anything fast or something that sets up. this plugs up most holes in the team.

so what are the major concerns???

right now, mixed ttar and even cb ttar are the biggest problems because i have 3 pursuit weaks...however, all of them are so important. i could go tentacruel over starmie but it puts me in a larger hole against other threats (that speed helps!)

i hope i didnt miss any, but if so, i would love some suggestions on fixing them

 

[MMF]

Hey bro, legit team. The Tar weakness can't really be helped without disrupting your the chemistry among your team so the best option is to just try and play around it. One situational threat you might find is a Dugtrio+Venusaur offensive core because if Duggy take out your Heatran, Venusaur if going to be running rampant over your team except for Latias who only takes like 70% from Modest +2 Sludge Bomb but then that leaves you open to another Sun sweeper. But like I said situational at best, but awesome team man!

 

[Reiko]

I don't know where to start :/.
Any decent Weather team in general will most likely stop you.
Rotom Scizor can just storm through this team.
So one recommendation I'd make is switching Latias to a Calm Mind set this way you have an answer to rotom scizor. Also I think you might want Tentacruel over Starmie This way you get Toxic Spike setup while still getting rapid spin coverage.
Hope I helped :]

 

[kd24]

I don't know where to start :/.
Any decent Weather team in general will most likely stop you.
Rotom Scizor can just storm through this team.
So one recommendation I'd make is switching Latias to a Calm Mind set this way you have an answer to rotom scizor. Also I think you might want Tentacruel over Starmie This way you get Toxic Spike setup while still getting rapid spin coverage.
Hope I helped :]

rains covered by ferrothorn, jellicent, and latias ... at worst rain stall would be a problem but because they normally lack a ghost, the phazing power of salamence usually gives me the win one on one (i also play with latias to trick ferro or in the rare case they have jelli, i trick that)

sun teams are basically done for with scarf latias, (except for volcarona whos either beaten by heatran, or it has lo hp ground and i then have to rely on jellicent + mence to finally beat it, as well as latias hitting with a last chance dm). a well played sun team can be almost impossible for anyone to beat tho, i dont see what your changes would give to me though in that sense (it makes losing a lot easier because of scarf darm, +1 volca and venu outspeed)

scizor can't switch in on anything and with 3 members having protect, its extremely easy to scout out attacks from either of these.. i handle this a lot better than most teams imo

tentacruel has some serious problems because i now am outsped by cb haxorus or latios..starmies coverage is really good there, and natural cure has proven to be more useful...i am kind of considering the tenta change for ttar but that speed loss hurts.

 

[Dead Optimist]

Maybe try a Sableye over Jellicent...? Priority taunt helps just as much against stall, and priority will-o-wisp smacks Ttar and Scizor most notably, as well as other physical threats. It also removes one of your pursuit weakness', and gives you an answer to CM Reuniclus (who you can only really phase away right now). Something like:

Sableye @ Lefovers
Prankster
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP, 120 Def, 136 Sp Def
Moves:
Will-o-wisp
Taunt
Recover
Knock off/Foul Play/Nightshade/Substitute

 

[Dragone]

That Salamence is impressive, and I didn't even know it learned Wish. You can bet I'm gonna test him for like a week to see how awesome he actually is. Also, creative Latias set Kd24, and nice team!

 

[kd24]

Maybe try a Sableye over Jellicent...? Priority taunt helps just as much against stall, and priority will-o-wisp smacks Ttar and Scizor most notably, as well as other physical threats. It also removes one of your pursuit weakness', and gives you an answer to CM Reuniclus (who you can only really phase away right now). Something like:

Sableye @ Lefovers
Prankster
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP, 120 Def, 136 Sp Def
Moves:
Will-o-wisp
Taunt
Recover
Knock off/Foul Play/Nightshade/Substitute

im willing to give this a try, my only concern is it opens me up to heatran and fire-types even more but the idea of handling reuniclus and ttar is a lot more appealing. thanks for the suggestion

 

[Eos]

Hey kd, really awesome team man! I'd like to give you some props for making a pretty fun team (yeah, I tested it out myself).

Anyways, on with the rate. Looking at Starmie, I feel Tentacruel would be a better choice. It is naturally bulky, it offers Toxic Spikes, and its typing matches better with Latias than Starmie. Tentacruel tends to lure in Ground- and Electric-Types, which Latias can come in and deal a nice amount of damage to. What's more, is that his Liquid Ooze ability can cripple things like Virizion and Conkeldurr that can have a potential threat to this team. With your ttar weakness, this is another thing to keep in mind when pondering over this switch. I'd recommend this set if you choose to try this out:

Hide

Tentacruel @ Leftovers | Timid
Ability: Liquid Ooze
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Toxic Spikes / Rapid Spin / Hydro Pump / Ice Beam

Pretty much standard offensive tenta set. With his natural special bulk, he really doesn't need any major bulk in EVs; however, feel free to tinker with them, as EVs are my weak spot in team building.

Gyarados would do a pretty nice job too, since he has Intimidate as well. He and Salamence would cause a ton of switches together. The only bad thing here is that with no spinner, you wouldn't be able to function as a stall team as well - no switching would drive you below par in most circumstances.

The other thing that I see with this team is a minor switch in moves. With Tentacruel/Starmie/Gyara and Jellicent, you have a nice basis for Water-type attacks, so I recommend you switch Latias' moves up a bit. With Hidden Power Fire over Surf, you are able to beat Scizor/Rotom-W. These two can be annoying to this team, so with HP fire in place, they will be taken care of with simple prediction. A set of
Trick / Psyshock / Draco Meteor / Hidden Power [Fire]
would do excellently.

I hope this helps, and good luck kd.

 

[Joeyboy]

Love this team man, really creative. You can be sure I'm gunna be testing bigmence in the following weeks ;)

So your main problem(seriously the only one I could see too) is your Pursuit weak 'mons. Now I believe Starmie to be the weak link of the three as Latias is so crucial against Sun teams and gives some much needed Speed; and Jellicent is pretty much the only viable bulky spin blocker.

So the only thing I can suggest is running Hitmontop over Starmie. It seems like a weird decision but I just don't see Tentacruel serving much purpose on this team, its too much like Jellicent in my opinion. The Hitmontop set I think would work best is this one:

Hitmontop (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rapid Spin
- Foresight
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch / Stone Edge

First off this would tone down your Tyranitar weakness a lot, giving a very reliable switch in. Hitmontop also arguably spins better than Starmie due to access to Foresight, and can cause tons of switches alongside Salamence, utilizing a double Intimidate core. While the lose of speed switching from Starmie to Hitmontop may seems bad, Sucker Punch's powerful priority may make up some of the difference. Hitmontop can even run some Attack EV's(instead of full Def) to give his offensive moves more of a bite. Stone Edge could also be used if you feel the priority is unneeded and you want a more reliably move for, say, Dragonite. Also this change wouldn't make you more Heatran weak as Top's Close Combat is sure to scare it.

I would also like to second Eos' suggestion of running Hidden Power Fire over Surf, because it so successfully screws with Scrotom.

 

[asterat]

I see one threat slowly ripping you apart: rain Abuse calm mind jirachi. Since your team is special attackers, after a boost or two you can't break its substitutes. Heatran can't kill it effectively because first off its a rain team, and second water pulse will do a lot of damage and confuse etc. To counter this threat I reccomend Gastrodon over jellicent
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
~ Earthquake
~ Ice Beam
~ Toxic
~ Recover
Sassy, 252 HP, 4 Defense, 252 SpD