"Higgs-like Boson" discovered at Cern

[Pernicious]

http://www.phdcomics.com/

yes, this is it! thank you. i knew i recognized the guy with short black hair.

and yeah hipmonlee, i thought of rsanimate while watching as well (that series really is excellent, i've only seen a few of them on youtube but i think ken robinson is right about most things in regards to education)...cartoon animation is astoundingly effective at giving me all the necessary information while keeping me 100% focused and entertained. i think it should probably be more common in educational scenarios due to how easy it is to absorb data once you have visual context. that said, i can see how it might be difficult as well.

 

[ssbbm]

ok, i have a question, for any physics people

going through wikipedia (lol), it says that the higgs-mechanism is what gives particles (specifically the w and z bosons) their mass. it does this by having the higgs field create goldstone-bosons, which are then absorbed by the w and z bosons, thus giving them mass. it then says that the higgs-bosons are kind of just made too, but it never really shows their importance in the higgs mechanism.

do they have importance, or are they really just a byproduct in a sense?

 

[sonickid01]

What other properties besides 125 gev? I thought it only had the right mass?

I'm not a proper PhD, so I don't know the specifics, but from the way the researchers described their findings in the press conference, it seemed like they had a bit more information on the particle than just the mass, although not a lot of information. I'm not sure what the specifics of other things that they've measured about this Higgs-like Boson are, but the way they detect these particles are by carefully accelerating particles to very very high energies and then colliding them and analyzing the resulting streams of particles that pop up and decay, called jets. Since reactions have to follow certain rules, it seems reasonable to assume the researchers know that this particle has a few particular conservation numbers to fit the rules of reactions. In addition, the Higgs boson has to have a spin of 0 and a charge of 0.

Also, the researchers know this is a Boson, and Bosons have particular properties that make them Bosons, so I guess the researchers have got that much information too (the primary property of Bosons to my understanding is that they have whole-number spins, like 1, 0, 2, etc as opposed to a half-integer spin like 1/2 or 3/2). In particle physics, most of the properties you talk about are kind of numerical values, so it's a bit abstract and since I'm barely out of high school I don't have the sheer math to comprehend all of it.

ok, i have a question, for any physics people

going through wikipedia (lol), it says that the higgs-mechanism is what gives particles (specifically the w and z bosons) their mass. it does this by having the higgs field create goldstone-bosons, which are then absorbed by the w and z bosons, thus giving them mass. it then says that the higgs-bosons are kind of just made too, but it never really shows their importance in the higgs mechanism.

do they have importance, or are they really just a byproduct in a sense?

I'm looking at the Wikipedia article, and I'm surprised I'd never read much about Goldstone bosons before this. From the description, it seems like the Higgs field generates Goldstone bosons when symmetry breaks (looking at the article, I think it's referring to Electroweak symmetry breaking, that is, when the electromagnetic force splits from the weak force. If this is the case, it seems to make some sense that breaking the symmetry would generate massive W and Z bosons; you have to understand how forces are carried: gauge bosons are "force particles" that carry interactions from particle to particle. The photon is massless and carries the electromagnetic force, while W and Z carry the weak force, and when the two forces are combined, the electroweak force would apparently have a massless force carrier, but when that force splits, the W and Z carriers most suddenly gain mass, and we do observe the W and Z particles carrying the weak force indeed have mass.).

The short description at the top of the wikipedia article says that these Goldstone bosons are what give W and Z mass terms, and says that Higgs bosons are sort of left behind as well, so I believe you are right ssbbm.
The article on the Higgs Boson says that the Higgs field is kind of made of 4 components - two charged fields, corresponding to W+ and W- particles, and two neutral fields, one corresponding to the Z particle. The other neutral field corresponds to the Higgs Boson, which can interact with itself. So a very rough tl;dnr to be taken with a grain of salt: you're right, the Higgs bosons are kind of just generated alongside the Goldstone bosons that interact with W and Z particles as a sort of byproduct of the Higgs mechanism that imbues W and Z particles with mass. The Higgs Boson is a quantization of part of the Higgs field, but its existence would be (is?) a great stride in confirming a large portion of our current standard model.

edit: i'm just a kid out of high school so I'm not a proper physicist, anyone with more/better information would be gladly appreciated to correct me where I'm wrong/laugh at my uneducation/add a better explanation. If anyone wants me to clarify anything I sort of just glossed over or answer any other questions, I'd be glad to try.

edit2: i'm also ashamed that i'd known so little about the Higgs when i thought i understood it relatively well, and i'm further ashamed that i'd never heard of goldstone bosons til now given their importance in this issue, but oh well

edit3: derp forgot to list the articles i was reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_mechanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldstone_boson

 

[aVocado]

How long until traveling by the speed of light or teleport is possible ? :p

 

[sonickid01]

How long until traveling by the speed of light or teleport is possible ? :p

Probably never in my opinion, but maybe I'm just a pessimist. The light-speed barrier really is a barrier; as you start moving faster, it becomes harder to get faster, a kind of asymptote. The universe is, in a way, really not a fan of things going faster than light as far as we know, and it kind of resists anything trying to. Even if we had technology to go superfast, it would likely burn huge (like bigger than you can imagine huge) amounts of energy, plus more to build it.

Teleportation would be cool; people are working on sending bits of information around by employing quantum mechanics, but I don't know how far along that is or where it's headed. Although I really like the idea, I don't know how plausible it is and I'm leaning toward thinking that it's highly unlikely.

The God particle also helps the explain why the Universe is expanding rather than shrinking.

Does it? I might have to look into that, that sounds really intriguing actually. If the Higgs is connected with dark energy, that'd be really fascinating but I'd have to ask a cosmologist about it.

 

[TheValkyries]

Probably never in my opinion, but maybe I'm just a pessimist. The light-speed barrier really is a barrier; as you start moving faster, it becomes harder to get faster, a kind of asymptote. The universe is, in a way, really not a fan of things going faster than light as far as we know, and it kind of resists anything trying to. Even if we had technology to go superfast, it would likely burn huge (like bigger than you can imagine huge) amounts of energy, plus more to build it.

Didn't the LHC at CERN already have a particle that traveled faster than light?

 

[iDunno]

twas a miscalculation

 

[capefeather]

The God particle also helps the explain why the Universe is expanding rather than shrinking.

fuck you

 

[Jebus McAzn]

okay since we're pretty sure it exists can we please stop calling it the "god particle"

 

[VKCA]

okay since we're pretty sure it exists can we please stop calling it the "god particle"

wasn't it only called the god particle because the publisher wouldn't let the author of the book about it call it the god damn particle?

 

[sonickid01]

wasn't it only called the god particle because the publisher wouldn't let the author of the book about it call it the god damn particle?

I have the book (had it since 8th grade). That's the story he says; whether that was a tongue-in-cheek remark to take out religious connotation or whether the term "God particle" had some semi-philosophical significance that he doesn't want to mention, I'm not sure. He goes on to say that it would be more accurate to call it the Champagne-Bottle Particle, since that's what scientists would drink if it was found (or drank on Wednesday).

 

[Codraroll]

Probably never in my opinion, but maybe I'm just a pessimist. The light-speed barrier really is a barrier; as you start moving faster, it becomes harder to get faster, a kind of asymptote. The universe is, in a way, really not a fan of things going faster than light as far as we know, and it kind of resists anything trying to. Even if we had technology to go superfast, it would likely burn huge (like bigger than you can imagine huge) amounts of energy, plus more to build it.

I think I read in an article somewhere in school that it would take 45% of Norway's annual energy consumption to accelerate a pack of sugar (a kilogram of mass) up to 99% of light speed. Similarly, it would take the same amount of energy to slow down as well.

Also, the famous relativity equations. The faster you travel, the slower time goes for you in relation to the world around you. I can't remember the exact equation here, and it's a boring read anyway, but it implies that moving at the exact speed of light would send you straight into the end of the universe, with proton decay and everything. Basically, for you it appears that time goes really, really, really fast outside your area of reference (space ship, for instance). Even at 99% of light speed, you'd lose about a month of "stationary world" time for every year you travel. And there's no way to go back in time in relation to the rest of the world. You'll be stranded in the future.

In short, Star Wars would never work. Even if they had mastered quantum physics so they could communicate across the galaxy, they would have no way to travel efficiently, and coordinating the galactic empire/republic/monarchy/anarchy would be impossible.

Teleportation might work. Eventually. But it would require quite a lot more understanding of things. The LHC might be a good start.

 

[cookie]

I think I read in an article somewhere in school that it would take 45% of Norway's annual energy consumption to accelerate a pack of sugar (a kilogram of mass) up to 99% of light speed. Similarly, it would take the same amount of energy to slow down as well.

Also, the famous relativity equations. The faster you travel, the slower time goes for you in relation to the world around you. I can't remember the exact equation here, and it's a boring read anyway, but it implies that moving at the exact speed of light would send you straight into the end of the universe, with proton decay and everything. Basically, for you it appears that time goes really, really, really fast outside your area of reference (space ship, for instance). Even at 99% of light speed, you'd lose about a month of "stationary world" time for every year you travel. And there's no way to go back in time in relation to the rest of the world. You'll be stranded in the future.

In short, Star Wars would never work. Even if they had mastered quantum physics so they could communicate across the galaxy, they would have no way to travel efficiently, and coordinating the galactic empire/republic/monarchy/anarchy would be impossible.

Teleportation might work. Eventually. But it would require quite a lot more understanding of things. The LHC might be a good start.

note: all this talk about quantum teleportation does not permit information transfer faster than the speed of light. The promise it holds is fully secure data transmission.

the current understanding of physics allows faster-than-light travel by bending space-time (since the light barrier applies to your local environment only), but we basically have no idea how we'd go about doing that

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Yeah as a scifi nerd I know that there are many other ways of travel that doesn't require the breaking of light speed:
-worm holes
-hyperspace (my personal fav)
-mass teleportation
-bending of the space time fabric (probably the same as wormholes, but with the scifi flare of not making an actual worm hole)
-moving all of the universe around you relativity (star trek is badass)

I also saw a science channel special that noted that if you could get your ship to act like a quantum particle, I believe a taceon, you can travel anywhere instantly.

 

[breh]

He goes on to say that it would be more accurate to call it the Champagne-Bottle Particle, since that's what scientists would drink if it was found (or drank on Wednesday).

Wikipedia also tells me that a champagne bottle has the same shape as the Higgs Potential.

I really wish I knew more about this stuff; it looks genuinely interesting.

 

[sonickid01]

Wikipedia also tells me that a champagne bottle has the same shape as the Higgs Potential.

I really wish I knew more about this stuff; it looks genuinely interesting.

Ah, that's pretty cool too; I like that explanation better. Today I learned something then!

Just go to Wikipedia and skim through whatever you can understand and hop around pages; you learn a lot of fascinating stuff and kind of piece things together while skirting around the math that's too high-level to understand on a layman's level. You could use Simple Wikipedia as well, although it's sort of fun to drown in things you don't understand and pick out the things you do understand from the muck (or am I the only one who enjoys doing that). If you'd like a start, look up something like the Higgs Boson or Gluons or Quantum Mechanics and just learn by flipping around between articles and gathering whatever information you can fit together as best you can.

Also, you could get Leon Lederman's book The God Particle, which is fairly good at making a good synopsis of physics from Democritus to now (though it's probably slighly outdated now that we've probably found a Higgs Boson). That book is what got me really interested in physics.

 

[VKCA]

Standard model page is also an excellent starting point.
Been looking for an image that I've seen on a couple wikipedia articles, it's a very nice tree diagram showing the travel from fundamental particles to molecule, and the travel from the four forces -> the electro weak -> gut -> toe.
anybody know the picture I'm talking about?

 

[sonickid01]

Standard model page is also an excellent starting point.
Been looking for an image that I've seen on a couple wikipedia articles, it's a very nice tree diagram showing the travel from fundamental particles to molecule, and the travel from the four forces -> the electro weak -> gut -> toe.
anybody know the picture I'm talking about?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...no_WMAP.jpg/800px-CMB_Timeline300_no_WMAP.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Universe_expansion2.png
http://williambrownscienceoflife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/history-universe-08.jpg

Are any of those it? I doubt it but I tried, if I find something better I'll probably just PM it to you.