Kecleon

[MyNameIsVeryCreative]

Overview
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Pros:

• New boon in Protean turns Kecleon from a useless gimmick, to a reasonably powerful and bulky setup sweeper
• Power-up punch, shadow sneak, and sucker punch have great offensive and defensive synergy and you can play mind-games with the opponent by changing types
• Has respectable bulk, can take a few hits.
  
• It's a fucking chameleon. Who doesn't love chameleons?

Cons:

• Slow as fuck, relies on priority moves to bypass faster opponents
  
• Stats are mediocre. If you invest fully in attack, you will be taken down easier, if you fully invest in defense, you will miss out on crucial KOs
• Changing types can also sometimes be a liability, especially if they predict you
• Susceptible to status
• Although his movepool is large, he is sadly restricted (for various reasons) to one set, making him very one-directional and predictable

Bulky Setup Sweeper
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name: Bulky Setup Sweeper
move 1: Power-Up Punch
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Shadow Sneak
move 4: Recover
ability: Protean
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 Hp / 88 Atk / 168 Def
nature: Impish

Moves
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Power-Up Punch is a necessity, as it is Kecleon's only means of dealing significant damage to the opposition, without the attack boosts Kecleon is simply too weak. Sucker Punch is the most powerful move in Kecleon's arsenal, Shadow Sneak is a less powerful but more reliable priority move. And of course Recover is useful for healing off damage taken while setting up. Note that the first three moves cover each other's asses. If Kecleon uses P-Up Punch, then Sucker Punch provides a psychic immunity. If Kecleon uses recover or sucker punch, then Shadow Sneak provides a fighting immunity and bug resistance. If Kecleon uses shadow sneak, then sucker punch provides a dark and ghost resistance.

Set Details
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This EV spread maximizes Kecleon's defensive capabilities. I tried going with max attack and max hp, but the loss of bulk severely limit's Kecleon's staying power, and the boosts accumulated from P-Up Punch makes up for it's slightly weakened attack stat anyway. Leftovers is the superior item choice, increasing Kecleon's bulk and longevity. Adamant because why not?

Usage Tips
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USAGE TIPS GO HERE

Team Options
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Kecleon doesn't really need team support, it can function well on it's own. The only help it needs is taking out checks and possible counters such as Sableye and Toxicroak.

Other Options
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Kecleon has a deliciously large movepool, but is sadly restricted (for loads of reasons) to the set listed above, which is Kecleon's only viable set.


Checks & Counters
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• Sableye
• Toxicroak
• Fighting Types
• Fletchinder

 

[Martin]

I built numerous teams around this very Kecleon set (but with better EVs) an I found that, tbh, Kecleon is practically inviable. Yes, it has a huge movepool... until you realize that practically none of it is compatible with Protean. It has embarrassing stats and, on every single team I tried it on, it was complete dead weight - with me needing to change it to something else to make the team not lose the sheer maj If you're looking for a user of Protean, you're better off just using Frogadier. Also, that spread is seriously messed up. You say "sweeper" and give it an adamant nature, but then you give it defensive EVs. A better spread would be 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def, but Kecleon is basically inviable anyway.

 

[g]

A spread of 252 hp/90atk/168def impish has the same stats and 1 more attack that your current one.

Anyway i don't think Kecleon is a viable choice in the current metagame as it is stopped cold by almost any physical wall that can either kill him, burh him or phaze it while taking next to no damage. It is also super prone to faster Pokemon not weak to dark and ghost such as Hydreigon that can revenge kill it no matter what and it is very, very weak without a lot of boosts

 

[watashi]

kecleon is just a bad physical attacker that's niche at best. the set you listed doesn't even have a reliable attack over 40 bp. it would be good if it had access to drain punch, knock off, and other coverage moves but those are illegal with protean

qc rejected 1/3

 

[MyNameIsVeryCreative]

Oh c'mon, you have no faith in me chums, perhaps i should provide replays to prove just how good Kecleon is. However I perfectly understand all your doubts about him. I will admit i thought Kecleon would be an unviable gimmick at first.

I built numerous teams around this very Kecleon set (but with better EVs) an I found that, tbh, Kecleon is practically inviable. Yes, it has a huge movepool... until you realize that practically none of it is compatible with Protean. It has embarrassing stats and, on every single team I tried it on, it was complete dead weight - with me needing to change it to something else to make the team not lose the sheer maj If you're looking for a user of Protean, you're better off just using Frogadier. Also, that spread is seriously messed up. You say "sweeper" and give it an adamant nature, but then you give it defensive EVs. A better spread would be 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def, but Kecleon is basically inviable anyway.

I tried that ev spread at first, but i found that he was taken out all too often by physical attackers, i tried 252 hp / 252 def / 4 atk and it was incredibly more effective than the previous ev spread. See, this is why you had little success gamerboy, you chose an inferior EV spread. By the way, at maximum defense his Def and SpD stats are essentially equal, so adamant nature is used it up his attack a little more.

C'mon guys, you are complaining about how bad he is when you are not even using the most effective spread, which was the one i suggested you guys use anyway. Jeez.

Seriously, if you use Kecleon well, he will not disappoint.

You know what? I'll change it to BULKY setup sweeper, which makes more sense due to EVs

 

[Royalty]

going to agree with FLCL on this, qc rejected 2/3.

 

[MyNameIsVeryCreative]

Wait, so if people reject it, do i post it on the title even if it's WIP?

A spread of 252 hp/90atk/168def impish has the same stats and 1 more attack that your current one.

Implementing now.

Anyway i don't think Kecleon is a viable choice in the current metagame as it is stopped cold by almost any physical wall that can either kill him, burh him or phaze it while taking next to no damage. It is also super prone to faster Pokemon not weak to dark and ghost such as Hydreigon that can revenge kill it no matter what and it is very, very weak without a lot of boosts

Ok, lemme show you some calcs for a typical scarfed Hydreigon.
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kecleon: 178-210 (54.9 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Hydreigon Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kecleon: 218-258 (67.2 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

"Hydreigon that can revenge kill it no matter what" Yeah right. LO sets maybe but not scarf.

 

[Martin]

Oh c'mon, you have no faith in me chums, perhaps i should provide replays to prove just how good Kecleon is. However I perfectly understand all your doubts about him. I will admit i thought Kecleon would be an unviable gimmick at first.

I tried that ev spread at first, but i found that he was taken out all too often by physical attackers, i tried 252 hp / 252 def / 4 atk and it was incredibly more effective than the previous ev spread. See, this is why you had little success gamerboy, you chose an inferior EV spread. By the way, at maximum defense his Def and SpD stats are essentially equal, so adamant nature is used it up his attack a little more.

C'mon guys, you are complaining about how bad he is when you are not even using the most effective spread, which was the one i suggested you guys use anyway. Jeez.

Seriously, if you use Kecleon well, he will not disappoint.

You know what? I'll change it to BULKY setup sweeper, which makes more sense due to EVs

It wasn't that it wasn't taking hits well, it was because it was always either too slow or too weak when I used it. The fact of the matter is that Kekleon is a gimmick. Besides: why would it matter weather Hydra is scarf or not when it is faster anyway? And a 2HKO i enough when the best thing you can do to it is P-UP. fyi, that is a chance to OHKO under normal battle conditions (~60% health remaining), and Hydra isn't the only example.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I was going to suggest Adamant as more efficient (generally, you give the nature to the highest base stat you will invest anything in as a rule), but it turns out that 252 HP / 4 ATK / 252 DEF Adamant is literally identical to 252 HP / 90 ATK / 168 DEF-- very weird and unusual. Anyway, whichever...

 

[MyNameIsVeryCreative]

If this reaches three rejects, do i delete this thread?

 

[Martin]

If this reaches three rejects, do i delete this thread?

no. It is locked by a member of staff and then moved to the archives later.

 

[Ernesto]

Oh right I'd forgot about this, thanks for the bump you crazy bumper kid

QC REJECTED 3/3 for the reasons Furi Kuri stated