Metagame Mega Evolution in Sun & Moon

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Ughhh

Prepare to see TPunch Medi + Tapu Koko a lot. Literally gives you a chance to 2HKO Bold Clefable, does a shitton to Mega Sableye (they will need Def EVs more than before, hello Spikes Greninja) and even breaks Mega Slowbro.

This mon is buffed by Terrains and was already nearly unwallable in ORAS. Lots of people are probably salty about this release
I think the terrain it abuses the most could most possibly be psychic. Psychic terrain Zen-Headbutts so hard, you have to see it to believe it.

252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Clefable in Psychic Terrain: 427-504 (108.3 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Rotom-Wash: 270-318 (89.1 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

-1 252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian in Psychic Terrain: 261-307 (81.8 - 96.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


Yeah, it even OHKOes Offensive Lando after rocks and does ~60% to defensive Lando meaning you can just give up Ice punch for T-Punch or something. Psychic terrain also protects Medichamp from this:

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Medicham-Mega: 164-194 (62.8 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I didn't even have to play ORAS to look at this Pokemon and go "disgusting" in the back of my head. Like bludz said expect Koko Mega Medi to get popular real fast, and probably Lele + Medi too. I probably would still always run Fake Out on Mega Medicham, but I think the only difference from ORAS to now is double priority seems a little clunkier to run right now. Still good for what it's worth, but I would be content with Fake Out / HJK / Thunder Punch / Ice Punch or ZH. Bullet Punch definitely remains viable too.

The worst part is Slowbro is having a hell of a hard time existing, so if anything it might be even worse to face than in ORAS.

Also rofl @ Drain Punch mention. Get out of here.
Stallbreaker Lele and Mega Medichamp. Leave it at that thought.
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
From what I've heard about it's ability to abuse terrain, are we saying this is potential ban territory? And yeah, I still have to try this stuff lol. In the back of my mind, I can see Medi-M + Firium Volcarona to be a very potent offensive core (as well as you're side to terrain fries), and then go from there (ofc you have a Physical wallbreaker + special wincon).

Makes me wonder if Mega Gallade could do the same thing when it comes out, but that's a topic for another day.

Also rofl @ Drain Punch mention. Get out of here.
Hey, it was just food for thought...
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
I'm pretty sure a lack of switchins gives our tiering policy some restless nights, and Mega Medicham has that down to a T let's be honest. Oh and don't say Psychics, because that's not out of the realm of plausibility for it if it can 2HKO (potentially OHKO) PhysDef Clef and similar with terrain boosted crap.

Oh and note how MMedi appreciates the funeral of bird spam (which I've strangely seen no one mention).
 
i would love seeing a SpeedPass Scolipede with a Adamant Mega Medicham make Mega Metagross drop, soon suspect test. I can see forward MSab burning MMedi and wall the shit outta it.
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
I'd say Ghostium Z Lele sounds like good support with Mega Medicham tbh, to lure what few Psychic walls there are to threaten it (as well as that which abuses Psychic Terrain itself).

I'm building a team around it as we speak, and I have the following:

Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Psycho Cut
- Rock Slide
- Bullet Punch

Tapu Lele @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind

Volcarona @ Expert Belt
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Psychic


Just asking what else I could add / what should I consider?
 
i would love seeing a SpeedPass Scolipede with a Adamant Mega Medicham make Mega Metagross drop, soon suspect test. I can see forward MSab burning MMedi and wall the shit outta it.
Who's gonna keep Medicham in on Sableye it's immune to both STABs. I doubt Scolipass Medicham will be the sole reason for a megagross drop.
 
I'd say Ghostium Z Lele sounds like good support with Mega Medicham tbh, to lure what few Psychic walls there are to threaten it (as well as that which abuses Psychic Terrain itself).

I'm building a team around it as we speak, and I have the following:

Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Psycho Cut
- Rock Slide
- Bullet Punch

Tapu Lele @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind

Volcarona @ Expert Belt
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Psychic


Just asking what else I could add / what should I consider?
Well, you should definitely consider this:

252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 388-457 (113.7 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 225-265 (65.9 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

HJK is nearly twice as powerful, and you're dying to at most 2 hits regardless of how much health you drained back.

252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 376-444 (94.4 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 219-258 (55 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Idk basically there's no reason ever not to run HJK on MMedi cause it's stupid brokenly powerful. honestly i have no strong opinion on psycho cut, if you wanna fish for crits over the slightly higher and reliable power of zen, gucci.

This set also has trouble breaking bulky waters and fat grounds, notably walled by hippo and lando, suicune can potentially setup on you. The terror of MMedi is that the few mons that can tank it's main STABs (hjk and zen) are wrecked by boltbeam, i don't think it will ever successfully pull of anything other than that. And doesn't need to, cause it's so damn terrifying to switch into.
 
From my post in the viability thread:

"Mega Medicham... what to say about my ORAS hero? I think this time around HJK is more powerful than ever, with the decline of two of it's biggest counters in Slowbro and Starmie. Almost nothing can switch unpunished in a HJK. The only responses to this move alone are Mega-Venusar (OHKO'd by Zen Headbutt), Toxapex (same, but also vulnerable to Thunder Punch), Protect (less popular than it was in ORAS), and Ghost types (all offensive except Sableye). Even if you have a Ghost mon in your team, the best you can do is start a mind game, since Gengar and Marowak are hit hard by coverage moves, and Mimikyu risks losing his much needed Disguise.

Some calcs to demonstrate what a beast he is:

252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Garchomp: 309-364 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 246-291 (61 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Amoonguss: 245-288 (56.8 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 194-228 (48 - 56.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 140-165 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 170-201 (43.1 - 51%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 146-172 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 37.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

It's rather incredible that even Tapu Fucking Fini can't switch safely on this thing. Everytime you switch Cham into something that's on his KO range, hell breaks loose.
He's also very maleable set wise. Except HJK, no move is really mandatory IMO. Personally, considering the current state of the meta, I'd go for:

- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt (because Venusaur)
- Bullet Punch (great cleaning move that makes up for Cham's sub-optimal speed)
- Fake Out (great way to scout sets and amazing synergy with BP)

Of course, forgoing Ice Punch has it's downsides. So has forgoing Thunder Punch, but it's my belief that the latter is the least required unless you're facing the mighty Alomomola.
His biggest nemesis is still Mega Sableye, so he benefits a lot from a partner who can deal with the little turd. Also, Scarf Lele is a huge problem to deal with.
All in all, I'm not supposed to nominate him yet, but boy does he look promising!"

I think you guys are getting overexcited about this terrain thing. Cham's already a mon that requires some level of support to switch in safely, and you're still planning on making it more complicated by needing one terrain setter to go along with it, meanwhile preventing other terrain setters to switch in.
Electric terrain + TP seems rather unimpressive considering HJK or resisted HJK + ZH can already do as much damage as needed to KO lots of shit.
Psychic terrain kills two of Medicham's best moves in order to benefit his inferior STAB. I don't see why the hype.
Instead of dreaming about terrain combos of questionable consistency, y'all should focus on Cham's raw and already outstanding wallbreaking capabilities.
If anything, I'd say grassy terrain is the best terrain for it, protecting it from EQs and giving it a little recovery, but since Bulu + Cham looks redundant, I'd say that Fini would be a good partner, keeping hazard, status, and Dragon moves in check .
 

Leo

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I'd say Ghostium Z Lele sounds like good support with Mega Medicham tbh, to lure what few Psychic walls there are to threaten it (as well as that which abuses Psychic Terrain itself).

I'm building a team around it as we speak, and I have the following:

Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Psycho Cut
- Rock Slide
- Bullet Punch

Tapu Lele @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind

Volcarona @ Expert Belt
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Psychic


Just asking what else I could add / what should I consider?
Ok this is a no-no. There's not a single reason not to use HJK ok Medi and Drain Punch isn't a good replacement whatsoever. Yes you have 1 million attack but when you use 75 Base Power moves (Psycho Cut too) it just doesn't do damage. Even if you're pairing it with Lele terrain won't be up forever (especially with Tapus everywhere) so you'll end up with a weak medi not killing things and dying cause it's frail
What I'm trying to say is don't give Medi Kartana syndrom for no reason
 
I'm really scared of this thing because
A) sableye is the only counter from oras that still have decent usage
B) this think is even scarier with koko/lele boosting his moves(2KO mega sableye lol)
C) differnt from ORAS both sticky web and ScoliPass are really viable, a mega medicham that can outspeed offensive mons is freaking scarry, i really don't wanna face scolpiass using medicham over metagross, you don't even need to pass him speed since you can wallbreak early game and then sweep with xukitree, and for sticky web using this alongside gengar and lele is almost as scarrier(specially with mosa ban).
D) speaking in new archetypes, he is a pain in the ass for TR and Rain, He can OKO magearna the turn she tries to set-up, and for rain you will have to sac something every time rain is over, also he can waste turns with fake out
 
I'd say Ghostium Z Lele sounds like good support with Mega Medicham tbh, to lure what few Psychic walls there are to threaten it (as well as that which abuses Psychic Terrain itself).

I'm building a team around it as we speak, and I have the following:

Medicham-Mega @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Psycho Cut
- Rock Slide
- Bullet Punch

Tapu Lele @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind

Volcarona @ Expert Belt
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Psychic


Just asking what else I could add / what should I consider?
Since volc mandates a spinner, I would say add fini. next, u needed rox so landot it is, since it provides u with a ground immune, a check to zygod, and a nice bulky pivot for medicham. finally, it looks like u needed several things: a steel, a scarfer and a lele check, so jirachi it is. it gives u another pivot with uturn + healing wish for medicham. next up is some qol changes to sets: make lele shed shell to help vs stall, since sableye walls ur medi. then u can run firez volc which is more optimal than ebelt imo.
 
Someone remember the hype for Megawile ... No? Well MMedi is just expected to be busted but no. It will be insanely good as Megawile (better) but like no ... i figured out more counters than MSab one of them is defensive arcanine. U just WOW then heal up
 

Leo

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Someone remember the hype for Megawile ... No? Well MMedi is just expected to be busted but no. It will be insanely good as Megawile (better) but like no ... i figured out more counters than MSab one of them is defensive arcanine. U just WOW then heal up
Arcanine is unviable
 

bludz

a waffle is like a pancake with a syrup trap
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Jolly might be recommended (though we will see) to outspeed Tapu Lele and offensive Landorus-T that run +Spe natures. Either way mon hits like a truck. Also the problem with Lele is that it blocks your own Fake Out, which is still gonna be a great move as it chunks Greninja and other mons on offense. Koko doesnt have that drawback and boosts your coverage (which needs a boost more than your STAB) and provides speed + momentum
 
Someone remember the hype for Megawile ... No? Well MMedi is just expected to be busted but no. It will be insanely good as Megawile (better) but like no ... i figured out more counters than MSab one of them is defensive arcanine. U just WOW then heal up
Arcanine can't switch in, it's not a counter or even really a check. Its defensive set doesn't outspeed Medicham so it can't even get a move off before it dies to HJK. And if Medicham gets a safe switch in to it, it does upwards to 99% with HJK, so with any prior damage (SR), Arcanine is a goner.

Plus there's literally no reason to use defensive Arcanine, since Fire is a pretty trash defensive typing (Hello, all the Landos and Zygardes currently in the tier. Hello, A-Gren) and Arcanine is pretty trash in OU anyway.
 
Jolly might be recommended (though we will see) to outspeed Tapu Lele and offensive Landorus-T that run +Spe natures. Either way mon hits like a truck. Also the problem with Lele is that it blocks your own Fake Out, which is still gonna be a great move as it chunks Greninja and other mons on offense. Koko doesnt have that drawback and boosts your coverage (which needs a boost more than your STAB) and provides speed + momentum
The other nice thing about Koko is it resists one of M-Medicham's weaknesses (flying) while also boosting Thunder Punch, as you mentioned.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
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Honestly the only two reasons to run Lele with Mega Medicham is to bust through Mega Sableye (which Koko can do) and boost Zen Headbutt. Koko has the added benefit of outspeeding mons like Garchomp and Mega Metagross while being a safe answer to Zard Y as a check (else risk 50/50s with Jolly Mega Medicham or downright lose Speed with Adamant most of the time).

Koko Medicham sounds like the path of choice with Fake Out in mind, which is still a solid move since it is free chip against faster threats and makes KO ranges easier.
 
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Arcanine is unviable

Arcanine can't switch in, it's not a counter or even really a check. Its defensive set doesn't outspeed Medicham so it can't even get a move off before it dies to HJK. And if Medicham gets a safe switch in to it, it does upwards to 99% with HJK, so with any prior damage (SR), Arcanine is a goner.

Plus there's literally no reason to use defensive Arcanine, since Fire is a pretty trash defensive typing (Hello, all the Landos and Zygardes currently in the tier. Hello, A-Gren) and Arcanine is pretty trash in OU anyway.
This is ridiculous. Halcyon already debunked the assumption of using acrcanine to wall Mega Medichamp, so ten more poeple don't have to like, re-confirm that.


 
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