I think direction this thread is taking is speaking for how OU currently has so much busted stuff at the same time. Mega Metagross, Protean Greninja, Arena Trap/Sableye stall, Baton Pass, etc are all coming together to create an unstable meta where it's impossible to build a team that won't lose just because your opponent is rocking a team you don't have the tools to adequately take on. Entry hazards put pressure on teambuilding. But as much as I hate to admit it, they're admittedly more bearable because it's feasible to pack countermeasures to them in multiple team archetypes without leaving yourself wide open to something else. Things like Mega Metagross, Protean Greninja, Baton Pass, SM stall, Pheromosa, etc. only have a few specific mons that can handle them reliable in a variety situations without forcing yourself to make off the wall plays that can easily backfire. And with 6 slots, you can only pack a solid answer for so many things at once. This probably explains why stall is so prevalent right now. It's probably the only playstayle atm that has the tools to handle the grand majority of the metagame with it having many strong walls, phazers, status inducers, a trapper, hazard countermeasures, and so on.
Clearly some suspects at a later point are necessary but it's tough to tell what should truly go and what should go first. It's quite possible certain things wouldn't be as hard to account provided something else wasn't around at the same time. One thing is certain though. OU is quite unstable and constricting atm and something has to give.
I think this sentiment is wrong, and having this kind of mindset means you're not fully exploring the possibilities. This sounds like I'm being overly negative on you TimG but I'm not trying to be, I just want to steer people away from the mindset of "everything is broken, everything must be banned". Last gen, I had a *hearty* discussion with a *certain* former moderator about how I was dissatisfied with the state of the OU and I thought some more offensive threats should have been re-tested at the end of ORAS - it was *interesting*, with him/her claiming that they were doing what was *best* for the meta and saying I was more or less a know-nothing idiot who should keep his opinions to himself (you can replace the words within the asterisks with more colourful - and probably appropriate - adjectives if you like).
The point is, when it came to the Genesect ban, I whole-heartedly agreed with ABR's opinion that more offensive threats need to be kept in the tier to keep things interesting and challenge players to think on their feet - I think the only problem was that I just didn't think that applied to Genesect. Genesect was too strong and too easy with its mixed sets and good speed, it did need a ban - but of the whole rest of the meta I think it's the only thing that very apparently needed a ban straight away after the initial quick bans.
First and foremost, I think any discussion of "X is toxic" should be tabled until Beedrillite and Mawilite are released. I think M-Beedrill will make a splash, offering stronger offensive hits than Pheromosa with still good coverage (that out-paces the all-mighty Metagross and hits him super effectively with Drill Run) and while it is rocks weak we all know what Fini is for, right? Another fast hard U-turner will put more pressure as well on things like Sash Dugtrio, breaking their sash with U-turn and leading to a possible counter, as it will with Greninja who it outspeeds also (and yes, it can be taken down with Water Shuriken, but the most common set is specs and then it's locked into a checkable move). Mawile, to a lesser extent, will likely also threaten things with insanely strong STAB moves coupled to dark priority to keep Metagross in check. With these two so nearly on the horizon and set to make a bit of a splash, there's no need to get ahead of ourselves.
In the terms of not thinking of additional strategies, I'm currently running Sub CM Keldeo as anti-stall and anti-Greninja. Yes, it won't stop Haze Toxapex, and yes, it won't stop Extrasensory LO Protean Greninja - but beyond those two caveats (which aren't entirely common) it has a lot of offensive pressure. I think a lot of the reason people don't run it is because it's not easy with so many Tapus running around, but that doesn't mean you can't handle them with a different mon and leave Keldeo for the times you need it. Giving yourself a couple of checks to these kind of match-ups, while they don't work against every set, work enough of the time to stop these kind of bad issues ruining your ability to ladder.
And yes, Metagross is strong - very strong - but to be honest I think a lot of the gripes with it are the shift towards fairies and it's annoying ability to boost unpredictably with Meteor Mash. The latter means that players can prepare a check and then lose out for no particular reason, but it's also ignoring all the times when Meteor Mash misses - but I think those frustrating boosts skew players' opinions of it. It's a very strong mon, but to be honest nothing has really changed for it since last gen (there aren't too many people using Lele or Koko to give it suped up Zen Headbutts or Thunder Punches as people thought there would be) so I'd be very on the fence over whether it's deserving of a ban.
All this is to say, yes there are possibly things that should be banned, but harder attempts should be made by players to ladder high than just selecting a load of highly viable mons and expecting to take the ladder by storm (not that this particularly applies to you TimG). I made a top 100 ladder TR team in this meta by considering what was anti-meta, and I'm hoping from current results my Aurora Veil team will be the same - precisely because I challenge myself to think inside the framework of the current meta and take it on by unconventional means rather than hoping for bans that make my potentially restricted views on team-building easier for me.
So let's hold our horses, enjoy this crazy meta while it lasts and think carefully on how we want to vote in future suspect tests or if those ban arguments should be given weight in the first place. I for one still don't ever want to see a meta so toothless that Clefable becomes S rank again (I know, "Paralysis nerf this gen means than wouldn't happen, you noob!" But if not Clefable, a comparable mon).
