Maybe not lead, but I'd at the very least want to see something like it happen. I read over the Haxmons exact ruleset, and it does seem a little different in execution, but it also seems quite interesting and would be pretty cool if it returned.
-
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-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Project Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter KaenSoul
- Start date
DARTSMON : Highest Score
Metagame Premise :
Single battle 3v3, 9 turns. Inspired from the original darts game, you'll have to get the highest score to win, which is the total of HP removed from the opponent's team.
Functioning :
Each pokémon will both throw and receive "darts" (as a dartboard) which means they're gonna use three different moves while getting the opponent's ones. As one move is used per turn, each Pokémon have to stay in battle for three turns. When that's done, they're switched by force with the next one, and the operation is repeated. Then, at the end of the ninth turn, the sum of removed HP from both corners will be compared. The one with the highest score wins.
Clauses :
HP Count Clause : A count is displayed at both players' side, showing the total amount of HP removed during the game ;
Round Clause : Pokémons are switched by force to the next one every rounds of three turns, and you can't switch them yourself during these ones ;
Dart Clause : Pokémons must have at least three different moves in their moveset. Once used, they're permanently disabled ;
Level Clause : All Pokémon must be at level 100.
Smogon-wide Clauses.
Strategy :
In this metagame, you can win even if all your Pokémons faint, because the amount of HP lost in your team can still be inferior to the opponent's. Whether they hit hard or whistand well, Pokemons with low base HP will be much appreciated since they minimize the global harm.
Bans :
Pokemons : Arceus (all forms), Calyrex-Ice, Calyrex-Shadow, Dialga (both forms), Eternatus, Giratina (both forms), Groudon, Koraidon, Kyogre, Mewtwo, Miraidon, Palafin (both forms), Palkia (both forms), Rayquaza, Zacian-Crowned, Zamazenta-Crowned ;
Moves : Baton Pass, Circle Throw, Dragon Tail, Encore, Flip Turn, Healing Wish, Lunar Dance, Memento, Parting Shot, Petal Dance, Raging Fury, Rest, Roar, Whirlwind, Trash, U-Turn, Volt-Switch ;
Items : Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, Eject Button, Eject Pack, Red Card.
Watchlist :
Abilitiy : Regenerator ;
Moves : Destruction, Explosion, Final Gambit, Wish.
Increased Viability :
Dugtrio-Alola
fits well as a lead in this metagame, as it can set up Stealth Rocks first turn, slow down physical attackers with Tangling Hair, then dealing great damages with Earthquake/Iron Head ; for a minimum of 110 HP, its dual type, coupled with Ghost tera-cristal, and its speed, offer an interesting counter-measure against spinners such as Great Tusk or Glimmora.Spiritomb
Decreased Viability :
Dodonzo
Q&A :
Q1 : What happens when a Pokémon faints before the third turn ?
A1 : The "unused darts" will be counted as used and the switch will be forced, as if the third turn passed.
Q2 : What happens when a Pokémon use a n-turns (n>1) move ?
A2+N : The move is cancelled at the end of the turn, unless, in a possible case, a Power Herb is used.
Note : Future Sight and Wish are exceptions since they don't prevent Pokémons from using their other moves.
Q3 : Are recoil/life orb damages part of the HP count process ?
A3 : No, they aren't. However, residual effects are.
Q4 : What happens when my Pokémon with Regenerator switch out at the end of the round ?
A4 : It'll take back 1/3 of HP. A subtraction will also occur to the opponent's HP count, equal to the HP recovered.
Last edited:
I think this is just way too confusing to work. I don’t even understand it myself.
The premise of OMs should be quite simple and should be able to be summarized into a single, concise sentence.
I made the Premise more concise, while adding an explanation below it. I hope it's fine now.
This sounds like it would be difficult to code. Also, you might want to ban Pokémon below level 100, otherwise FEAR teams can win the game with a single Endeavor (which probably isn't hard to pull off in most matchups).
"i have become death, destroyer of worlds." -barbie said this i think
that is to say i made a really fucked up metagame just by theoryposting in OM chat. sorry... >.<
MANIC MOVES
Metagame Premise: You have 6 move slots - however, they do not work as normal. You mix adjecent moves together, adding their effects and 75% of the BP. It uses the type of the first move, category of the second move (first move if second is status), and averages the accuracy (so 80% acc and 100% acc make 90% acc). If a move bypasses acc checks, it counts as being 100% instead (as to not break everything...)
This does mean that fusing 2 status moves is basically Linked. I'm sorry about that, I don't know what to do about it (yet). Also, priority is like linked too - only the lowest priority is used.
Example:
If you fuse Chilling Water and Toxic Spikes, you can set up hazards while reducing enemy attack - a new staple for any hazard setter! Your Sludge Bombs become scarier too when they have extra BP and a chance to freeze.
You think Draco Meteor is scary? What about a 197.5 BP Draco Meteor + Earthquake? With slightly better accuracy too, because why the hell not. You can also add Dragon Breath to U-Turn to add some power (in the form of STAB or turning it special) and a chance to paralyze, or just go with something silly like U-Turn + T-Wave.
This thing can click a physical fire move with 75 BP that boosts its speed by two stages, and after that click Pyro Ball boosted by High Jump Kick. A scary sweeper indeed.
POTENTIAL THREATS
-A lot of mons get moves that used to be wasted as valuable new coverage. Hoopa-Unbound can squash bugs with Rock Tomb, Tyranitar can use BoltBeam (and that's just the start of it), and much more - so be on the horizon.
-However, I had one in particular in mind. Not just because of power, but because of priority, too. Greninja, as you might've noticed, can click a physical 51 BP multi-hit move that will absolutely decimate anything given a Loaded Dice and Battle Bond. It'll... probably be banned, if this ever becomes a thing.
Questions for the community:
-Should Multi-Hit itself be banned? I am not Smart Enough (tm) to know.
-Is this too similar to an existing metagame?
that is to say i made a really fucked up metagame just by theoryposting in OM chat. sorry... >.<
MANIC MOVES
Metagame Premise: You have 6 move slots - however, they do not work as normal. You mix adjecent moves together, adding their effects and 75% of the BP. It uses the type of the first move, category of the second move (first move if second is status), and averages the accuracy (so 80% acc and 100% acc make 90% acc). If a move bypasses acc checks, it counts as being 100% instead (as to not break everything...)
This does mean that fusing 2 status moves is basically Linked. I'm sorry about that, I don't know what to do about it (yet). Also, priority is like linked too - only the lowest priority is used.
Example:
If you fuse Chilling Water and Toxic Spikes, you can set up hazards while reducing enemy attack - a new staple for any hazard setter! Your Sludge Bombs become scarier too when they have extra BP and a chance to freeze. You think Draco Meteor is scary? What about a 197.5 BP Draco Meteor + Earthquake? With slightly better accuracy too, because why the hell not. You can also add Dragon Breath to U-Turn to add some power (in the form of STAB or turning it special) and a chance to paralyze, or just go with something silly like U-Turn + T-Wave. This thing can click a physical fire move with 75 BP that boosts its speed by two stages, and after that click Pyro Ball boosted by High Jump Kick. A scary sweeper indeed.POTENTIAL THREATS
-A lot of mons get moves that used to be wasted as valuable new coverage. Hoopa-Unbound can squash bugs with Rock Tomb, Tyranitar can use BoltBeam (and that's just the start of it), and much more - so be on the horizon.
-However, I had one in particular in mind. Not just because of power, but because of priority, too. Greninja, as you might've noticed, can click a physical 51 BP multi-hit move that will absolutely decimate anything given a Loaded Dice and Battle Bond. It'll... probably be banned, if this ever becomes a thing.
Questions for the community:
-Should Multi-Hit itself be banned? I am not Smart Enough (tm) to know.
-Is this too similar to an existing metagame?
Good morning fellas, fellas and fellas, it's your least favorite Smogon user back at it again to talk about this metagame pet mod format idea I had, which sparked from this mysterious letter somehow found in the Natdex Forums. Yeah, yeah, I know this covers a larger range than the "Paldea Dex", and likely definitely won't be accepted, but I just wanted to talk about it (and was also suggested to post it here.)
Presenting... SuperHome Playground (clearly-not-working Title)
The premise for this format is to treat the franchise as if Pokémon Home had been around from the start of the franchise in 1996, and every player-obtainable Pokémon, from either the main series games or games that have the mainline game battle system and can directly trade and interact with the main series games (such as Colosseum/XD Gale of Darkness, Stadium[2]), were able to be deposited in Pokémon Home and used in future, respective titles.
This would essentially be an entirely unrated... metagame/mod/format, made simply to battle and experiment with other players while using any previously obtainable Pokémon you want. Aside from the currently obtainable NDexGen9AG Pokémon, this includes the following:
On to the big fish in the room... Shadow Pokémon.
1) Are they broken? Are they viable?
2) How do we classify their moves?
3)Which game's mechanics do we use?
4) Why are you wasting time pitching this half-baked format proposition, Catzzadilla, instead of getting a job or making your parents proud of you, you stupid, lonely, awkward, crying, cowardly...
These are (almost) all good questions, but let's take it one step at a time.
1)Here's the (showdown-relevant) list of differences for Shadow Pokémon from regular Pokémon, copied from Bulbapedia:
A Shadow Pokémon is unable of doing the following:
The three biggest factors right now that limit their usefulness are their level cap, their limited movepool, and their inability* to evolve. In a metagame where they have to be faithful, this would render them practically non-viable. However, in a metagame that would allow more leniency, such as a Hackmons or otherwise, they occupy a bigger role.
*Technically speaking, a lv.43 Shadow Wyrdeer may be possible, since evolving Stantler requires using Agile Style Psyshield Bash 20 times, a move which a Shadow Stantler may know at that level in Legends Arceus, depending on how we allow cross-generational moveset updates and in-game mechanics. Mega Stones would also be 100% usable on Shadow Pokémon, making Mega Evolution possible.
2) Now as for Shadow moves, the XD system would be in place for most of the moves, with the exception of Colosseum's Shadow Rush, which would be given to Shadow Colosseum mons to make their movesets closer to their initial design and balance. XD's Shadow Rush would still be on its applicable mons, with the move being renamed to "Shadow Rush XD" to avoid confusion between the two.
This means that Shadow Rush (Colosseum) will deal neutral damage to every pokémon, while the rest of the shadow moves deal super effective damage to all non-shadow pokémon and not very effective on shadow pokémon. They cannot receive STAB, have unlimited PP and cannot be Sketched. This might give Shadow Pokémon a niche in gimmick roles.
What about the physical/special split, I hear you snicker from across the school cafeteria, how do you decide which moves are physical and which are special? That's the neat part, imaginary bully constructed solely from my negative repressed experiences, I actually don't have to decide! Shadow moves from Pokémon XD were the first moves to be physically and specially split within a type, well before the generation that made it universal! That means special attackers from XD get to have their nice special shadow moves, and special attackers from Colosseum can go home to their Shadow Rush and cry about it. Boo freaking Hoo.
3) Which game's mechanics do we use?
With the 2023 Bullet Point #2 Shadow Rush Distinction™ established, I think it's fair to say that Colosseum and XD Shadow mechanics should be applied on a per-mon basis, for the sake of balance and consistency. Hyper Mode can greatly enhance Shadow Rush's viability by making its crit rate ridiculously high, at the cost of potentially disobeying you if you choose another move. Reverse Mode, the XD Counterpart, has almost no positive benefits compared to Hyper Mode, apart from not taking up a turn to activate, as it has no critical-hit ratio-raising effect, not even on Shadow Rush XD. Fortunately, XD also has a mechanic that gives a 50% Speed boost to all Shadow Pokémon in battle, Reverse Mode or not, so at least XD Shadow mons have that going for them.
Should we implement the Call function? Without it, Hyper Mode is difficult to end (requiring RNG), and Reverse Mode is inescapable. But with it, Colosseum mons skip a turn for free, and XD mons get a free +1 accuracy at no pp cost. It also wakes up sleeping Pokémon at the cost of a turn. I think the "Call" option should only appear when a pokémon is in Hyper/Reverse mode, to prevent abusing it for stall.
4) Man I just wanna use Pikachu-PHD in gen 9, leave me alone
Here we are now at the end of the post. By now, if you're on the OM council, you're probably thinking "You dare walk into my house... talk about Natdex... Mix multiple rules together... Ask us to code more mons and features... And all that for what, an unrated Custom Game knockoff? Listen sonny, I don't know who you think you are *cocks shotgun* but if you don't start runnin-"
Yeah, I get it. In hindsight, this is definitely a tall order for... whatever this is. But I don't think this is a "Custom Game Knockoff", nor do I think it is NatDex. NatDex has reestablished its identity at the start of this generation, and I think the limits and regulations set in play make it much different from the lv.9999 20-move apocalypse of a game mode that is Custom Game, and this... uhhh, mode... would let you strictly play what is possible from the games only, for cross-generational experimental battling purposes. Sometimes that restriction is nice, it feels safe and scientific and acts like a guardrail.
Speaking of mode, what can I even call this? On one hand, all of the aforementioned mechanics are in licensed, official Nintendo-published Pokémon games, and I tried as hard as I can to make it all fit together with the mechanics untouched from their original variation... so is it an OM? On the other, this does demand a lot of content to be added to Showdown for the purpose of this "playground"... so is it a Pet Mod? And then again, from this base, I could see different variations of this meta/mod forking and making its own playerbases: one where everything stays unchanged from the base games, one where movepools are expanded on the new mons, one where level limits are removed, one where we bring back all previously usable items (
:ginema-berry: 
), and even then we can have STABmons on top of it, or Draft, or past gens, or have usage tiers... so is it a format? Either way, there's a 2/3 chance it doesn't belong in this thread, and for that I profoundly apologize. I just had to get this post out of my head or I would go crazy.
So yeah, here it is. My abomination of a post, as requested. May it be talked about in a better place, at a better time, but certainly not here. Though where that place shall be I have no idea.
I wrote Good Morning on this post and it was the afternoon. It is now 9:00PM. What am I doing with my life.
Presenting... SuperHome Playground (clearly-not-working Title)
The premise for this format is to treat the franchise as if Pokémon Home had been around from the start of the franchise in 1996, and every player-obtainable Pokémon, from either the main series games or games that have the mainline game battle system and can directly trade and interact with the main series games (such as Colosseum/XD Gale of Darkness, Stadium[2]), were able to be deposited in Pokémon Home and used in future, respective titles.
This would essentially be an entirely unrated... metagame/mod/format, made simply to battle and experiment with other players while using any previously obtainable Pokémon you want. Aside from the currently obtainable NDexGen9AG Pokémon, this includes the following:
- the fellas on this previously received declaration (
:pichu-spiky-eared: 
+ totems) - Shadow Pokémon
- that should be it as far as I know
- Pokéstar Opponents
- Missingno, 'M, TMTRAINER, Bad Egg, and all other glitch pokémon
- Eternatus-Eternamax
- "Ghost" from the Pokémon Tower
- The untouchable dog from the start of SwSh
- Floette-Eternal
- Some Unused Shadow Pokémon
- CAP (the format. Pikachu-partner and its bros are still allowed)
- Eggs (an egg can't battle!)
- You in the safari zone (throwing mud, rocks and bait)
-
Not having a Pokémon on the field
- Other Pokémon in similar condition to these
- Kind of torn between strictly keeping the newly available pokémon's movepools strictly the same as it was in the last game they were available, or allowing them to receive the moveset changes from their core species only (egg moves can be passed without breeding as of gen 9)
- Pokémon caught in a newer generation can go back to a previous generation to learn from a move tutor or TM as long as it is able to learn the move (this rule might be redundant, or might lead to some movepools/legality expanding)
- Event Pokémon must still match their conditions
- Kissing is legal
- As this is based on (NDex) Anything Goes (for now), there are no bans or restrictions that aren't in the games already (only 1 mega, etc.)
On to the big fish in the room... Shadow Pokémon.
1) Are they broken? Are they viable?
2) How do we classify their moves?
3)Which game's mechanics do we use?
4) Why are you wasting time pitching this half-baked format proposition, Catzzadilla, instead of getting a job or making your parents proud of you, you stupid, lonely, awkward, crying, cowardly...
These are (almost) all good questions, but let's take it one step at a time.
1)Here's the (showdown-relevant) list of differences for Shadow Pokémon from regular Pokémon, copied from Bulbapedia:
A Shadow Pokémon is unable of doing the following:
- Level it up through battles or Rare Candy (When it is purified, it gains all the exp. accumulated as a Shadow Pokémon. In Colosseum the Shadow Pokémon only starts accumulating exp once it has opened at least 2 bars on the heart gauge. In XD the Shadow Pokémon accumulates exp right away but only gets 80% of the usual exp total.)
- Evolve it using an evolution stone (This doesn’t apply to Colosseum; however, none of the Shadow Pokémon in that game evolve through stone.)
- Change the order of or delete its moves
- Use a TM on it
- Give it a nickname (due to displaying an OT and ID of "?????")
- Trade it.
The three biggest factors right now that limit their usefulness are their level cap, their limited movepool, and their inability* to evolve. In a metagame where they have to be faithful, this would render them practically non-viable. However, in a metagame that would allow more leniency, such as a Hackmons or otherwise, they occupy a bigger role.
*Technically speaking, a lv.43 Shadow Wyrdeer may be possible, since evolving Stantler requires using Agile Style Psyshield Bash 20 times, a move which a Shadow Stantler may know at that level in Legends Arceus, depending on how we allow cross-generational moveset updates and in-game mechanics. Mega Stones would also be 100% usable on Shadow Pokémon, making Mega Evolution possible.
2) Now as for Shadow moves, the XD system would be in place for most of the moves, with the exception of Colosseum's Shadow Rush, which would be given to Shadow Colosseum mons to make their movesets closer to their initial design and balance. XD's Shadow Rush would still be on its applicable mons, with the move being renamed to "Shadow Rush XD" to avoid confusion between the two.
This means that Shadow Rush (Colosseum) will deal neutral damage to every pokémon, while the rest of the shadow moves deal super effective damage to all non-shadow pokémon and not very effective on shadow pokémon. They cannot receive STAB, have unlimited PP and cannot be Sketched. This might give Shadow Pokémon a niche in gimmick roles.
What about the physical/special split, I hear you snicker from across the school cafeteria, how do you decide which moves are physical and which are special? That's the neat part, imaginary bully constructed solely from my negative repressed experiences, I actually don't have to decide! Shadow moves from Pokémon XD were the first moves to be physically and specially split within a type, well before the generation that made it universal! That means special attackers from XD get to have their nice special shadow moves, and special attackers from Colosseum can go home to their Shadow Rush and cry about it. Boo freaking Hoo.
3) Which game's mechanics do we use?
With the 2023 Bullet Point #2 Shadow Rush Distinction™ established, I think it's fair to say that Colosseum and XD Shadow mechanics should be applied on a per-mon basis, for the sake of balance and consistency. Hyper Mode can greatly enhance Shadow Rush's viability by making its crit rate ridiculously high, at the cost of potentially disobeying you if you choose another move. Reverse Mode, the XD Counterpart, has almost no positive benefits compared to Hyper Mode, apart from not taking up a turn to activate, as it has no critical-hit ratio-raising effect, not even on Shadow Rush XD. Fortunately, XD also has a mechanic that gives a 50% Speed boost to all Shadow Pokémon in battle, Reverse Mode or not, so at least XD Shadow mons have that going for them.
Should we implement the Call function? Without it, Hyper Mode is difficult to end (requiring RNG), and Reverse Mode is inescapable. But with it, Colosseum mons skip a turn for free, and XD mons get a free +1 accuracy at no pp cost. It also wakes up sleeping Pokémon at the cost of a turn. I think the "Call" option should only appear when a pokémon is in Hyper/Reverse mode, to prevent abusing it for stall.
4) Man I just wanna use Pikachu-PHD in gen 9, leave me alone
Here we are now at the end of the post. By now, if you're on the OM council, you're probably thinking "You dare walk into my house... talk about Natdex... Mix multiple rules together... Ask us to code more mons and features... And all that for what, an unrated Custom Game knockoff? Listen sonny, I don't know who you think you are *cocks shotgun* but if you don't start runnin-"
Yeah, I get it. In hindsight, this is definitely a tall order for... whatever this is. But I don't think this is a "Custom Game Knockoff", nor do I think it is NatDex. NatDex has reestablished its identity at the start of this generation, and I think the limits and regulations set in play make it much different from the lv.9999 20-move apocalypse of a game mode that is Custom Game, and this... uhhh, mode... would let you strictly play what is possible from the games only, for cross-generational experimental battling purposes. Sometimes that restriction is nice, it feels safe and scientific and acts like a guardrail.
Speaking of mode, what can I even call this? On one hand, all of the aforementioned mechanics are in licensed, official Nintendo-published Pokémon games, and I tried as hard as I can to make it all fit together with the mechanics untouched from their original variation... so is it an OM? On the other, this does demand a lot of content to be added to Showdown for the purpose of this "playground"... so is it a Pet Mod? And then again, from this base, I could see different variations of this meta/mod forking and making its own playerbases: one where everything stays unchanged from the base games, one where movepools are expanded on the new mons, one where level limits are removed, one where we bring back all previously usable items (
:ginema-berry: ), and even then we can have STABmons on top of it, or Draft, or past gens, or have usage tiers... so is it a format? Either way, there's a 2/3 chance it doesn't belong in this thread, and for that I profoundly apologize. I just had to get this post out of my head or I would go crazy.So yeah, here it is. My abomination of a post, as requested. May it be talked about in a better place, at a better time, but certainly not here. Though where that place shall be I have no idea.
I wrote Good Morning on this post and it was the afternoon. It is now 9:00PM. What am I doing with my life.
Last edited:
This would by definition be a petmod, yes, you should check their sub forum: https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/pet-mods.734/Good morning fellas, fellas and fellas, it's your least favorite Smogon user back at it again to talk about thismetagamepet modformatidea I had, which sparked from this mysterious letter somehow found in the Natdex Forums. Yeah, yeah, I know this covers a larger range than the "Paldea Dex", andlikelydefinitely won't be accepted, but I just wanted to talk about it (and was also suggested to post it here.)
Presenting... SuperHome Playground (clearly-not-working Title)
The premise for this format is to treat the franchise as if Pokémon Home had been around from the start of the franchise in 1996, and every player-obtainable Pokémon, from either the main series games or games that have the mainline game battle system and can directly trade and interact with the main series games (such as Colosseum/XD Gale of Darkness, Stadium[2]), were able to be deposited in Pokémon Home and used in future, respective titles.
This would essentially be an entirely unrated... metagame/mod/format, made simply to battle and experiment with other players while using any previously obtainable Pokémon you want. Aside from the currently obtainable NDexGen9AG Pokémon, this includes the following:
This does NOT include the following Pokémon:
- the fellas on this previously received declaration (
- Shadow Pokémon
- that should be it as far as I know
Before we move on to the elephant in the aquarium, let's go over a couple things.
- Pokéstar Opponents
- Missingno, 'M, TMTRAINER, Bad Egg, and all other glitch pokémon
- Eternatus-Eternamax
- "Ghost" from the Pokémon Tower
- The untouchable dog from the start of SwSh
- Floette-Eternal
- Some Unused Shadow Pokémon
- CAP (the format. Pikachu-partner and its bros are still allowed)
- Eggs (an egg can't battle!)
- You in the safari zone (throwing mud, rocks and bait)
- Other Pokémon in similar condition to these
- Kind of torn between strictly keeping the newly available pokémon's movepools strictly the same as it was in the last game they were available, or allowing them to receive the moveset changes from their core species only (egg moves can be passed without breeding as of gen 9)
- Pokémon caught in a newer generation can go back to a previous generation to learn from a move tutor or TM as long as it is able to learn the move (this rule might be redundant, or might lead to some movepools/legality expanding)
- Event Pokémon must still match their conditions
- Kissing is legal
- As this is based on (NDex) Anything Goes (for now), there are no bans or restrictions that aren't in the games already (only 1 mega, etc.)
On to the big fish in the room... Shadow Pokémon.
1) Are they broken? Are they viable?
2) How do we classify their moves?
3)Which game's mechanics do we use?
4) Why are you wasting time pitching this half-baked format proposition, Catzzadilla, instead of getting a job or making your parents proud of you, you stupid, lonely, awkward, crying, cowardly...
These are (almost) all good questions, but let's take it one step at a time.
1)Here's the (showdown-relevant) list of differences for Shadow Pokémon from regular Pokémon, copied from Bulbapedia:
A Shadow Pokémon is unable of doing the following:
(Unlisted is the fact that they cannot have any friendship points, and transform will fail if used on one. Shadow Pokémon from XD also cannot be shiny.)
- Level it up through battles or Rare Candy (When it is purified, it gains all the exp. accumulated as a Shadow Pokémon. In Colosseum the Shadow Pokémon only starts accumulating exp once it has opened at least 2 bars on the heart gauge. In XD the Shadow Pokémon accumulates exp right away but only gets 80% of the usual exp total.)
- Evolve it using an evolution stone (This doesn’t apply to Colosseum; however, none of the Shadow Pokémon in that game evolve through stone.)
- Change the order of or delete its moves
- Use a TM on it
- Give it a nickname (due to displaying an OT and ID of "?????")
- Trade it.
The three biggest factors right now that limit their usefulness are their level cap, their limited movepool, and their inability* to evolve. In a metagame where they have to be faithful, this would render them practically non-viable. However, in a metagame that would allow more leniency, such as a Hackmons or otherwise, they occupy a bigger role.
*Technically speaking, a lv.43 Shadow Wyrdeer may be possible, since evolving Stantler requires using Agile Style Psyshield Bash 20 times, a move which a Shadow Stantler may know at that level in Legends Arceus, depending on how we allow cross-generational moveset updates and in-game mechanics. Mega Stones would also be 100% usable on Shadow Pokémon, making Mega Evolution possible.
2) Now as for Shadow moves, the XD system would be in place for most of the moves, with the exception of Colosseum's Shadow Rush, which would be given to Shadow Colosseum mons to make their movesets closer to their initial design and balance. XD's Shadow Rush would still be on its applicable mons, with the move being renamed to "Shadow Rush XD" to avoid confusion between the two.
This means that Shadow Rush (Colosseum) will deal neutral damage to every pokémon, while the rest of the shadow moves deal super effective damage to all non-shadow pokémon and not very effective on shadow pokémon. They cannot receive STAB, have unlimited PP and cannot be Sketched. This might give Shadow Pokémon a niche in gimmick roles.
What about the physical/special split, I hear you snicker from across the school cafeteria, how do you decide which moves are physical and which are special? That's the neat part, imaginary bully constructed solely from my negative repressed experiences, I actually don't have to decide! Shadow moves from Pokémon XD were the first moves to be physically and specially split within a type, well before the generation that made it universal! That means special attackers from XD get to have their nice special shadow moves, and special attackers from Colosseum can go home to their Shadow Rush and cry about it. Boo freaking Hoo.
3) Which game's mechanics do we use?
With the 2023 Bullet Point #2 Shadow Rush Distinction™ established, I think it's fair to say that Colosseum and XD Shadow mechanics should be applied on a per-mon basis, for the sake of balance and consistency. Hyper Mode can greatly enhance Shadow Rush's viability by making its crit rate ridiculously high, at the cost of potentially disobeying you if you choose another move. Reverse Mode, the XD Counterpart, has almost no positive benefits compared to Hyper Mode, apart from not taking up a turn to activate, as it has no critical-hit ratio-raising effect, not even on Shadow Rush XD. Fortunately, XD also has a mechanic that gives a 50% Speed boost to all Shadow Pokémon in battle, Reverse Mode or not, so at least XD Shadow mons have that going for them.
Should we implement the Call function? Without it, Hyper Mode is difficult to end (requiring RNG), and Reverse Mode is inescapable. But with it, Colosseum mons skip a turn for free, and XD mons get a free +1 accuracy at no pp cost. It also wakes up sleeping Pokémon at the cost of a turn. I think the "Call" option should only appear when a pokémon is in Hyper/Reverse mode, to prevent abusing it for stall.
4) Man I just wanna use Pikachu-PHD in gen 9, leave me alone
Here we are now at the end of the post. By now, if you're on the OM council, you're probably thinking "You dare walk into my house... talk about Natdex... Mix multiple rules together... Ask us to code more mons and features... And all that for what, an unrated Custom Game knockoff? Listen sonny, I don't know who you think you are *cocks shotgun* but if you don't start runnin-"
Yeah, I get it. In hindsight, this is definitely a tall order for... whatever this is. But I don't think this is a "Custom Game Knockoff", nor do I think it is NatDex. NatDex has reestablished its identity at the start of this generation, and I think the limits and regulations set in play make it much different from the lv.9999 20-move apocalypse of a game mode that is Custom Game, and this... uhhh, mode... would let you strictly play what is possible from the games only, for cross-generational experimental battling purposes. Sometimes that restriction is nice, it feels safe and scientific and acts like a guardrail.
Speaking of mode, what can I even call this? On one hand, all of the aforementioned mechanics are in licensed, official Nintendo-published Pokémon games, and I tried as hard as I can to make it all fit together with the mechanics untouched from their original variation... so is it an OM? On the other, this does demand a lot of content to be added to Showdown for the purpose of this "playground"... so is it a Pet Mod? And then again, from this base, I could see different variations of this meta/mod forking and making its own playerbases: one where everything stays unchanged from the base games, one where movepools are expanded on the new mons, one where level limits are removed, one where we bring back all previously usable items (
So yeah, here it is. My abomination of a post, as requested. May it be talked about in a better place, at a better time, but certainly not here. Though where that place shall be I have no idea.
I wrote Good Morning on this post and it was the afternoon. It is now 9:00PM. What am I doing with my life.
I would recommend that next time you post an idea here you should focus on the concept, no need to make the post unnesesary larger by talking about unrelated thoughts. You can add personality to your posts, just try to make it so the original idea doesn't get lost between some wall of texts.
I'm not if I'm uderstanding this corrently, by adjacent you only mean the one after? Or would Move 3 be affected by Move 2 and Move 4?"i have become death, destroyer of worlds." -barbie said this i think
that is to say i made a really fucked up metagame just by theoryposting in OM chat. sorry... >.<
MANIC MOVES
Metagame Premise: You have 6 move slots - however, they do not work as normal. You mix adjecent moves together, adding their effects and 75% of the BP. It uses the type of the first move, category of the second move (first move if second is status), and averages the accuracy (so 80% acc and 100% acc make 90% acc). If a move bypasses acc checks, it counts as being 100% instead (as to not break everything...)
This does mean that fusing 2 status moves is basically Linked. I'm sorry about that, I don't know what to do about it (yet). Also, priority is like linked too - only the lowest priority is used.
Example:
POTENTIAL THREATS
-A lot of mons get moves that used to be wasted as valuable new coverage. Hoopa-Unbound can squash bugs with Rock Tomb, Tyranitar can use BoltBeam (and that's just the start of it), and much more - so be on the horizon.
-However, I had one in particular in mind. Not just because of power, but because of priority, too. Greninja, as you might've noticed, can click a physical 51 BP multi-hit move that will absolutely decimate anything given a Loaded Dice and Battle Bond. It'll... probably be banned, if this ever becomes a thing.
Questions for the community:
-Should Multi-Hit itself be banned? I am not Smart Enough (tm) to know.
-Is this too similar to an existing metagame?
Its seem like a more complex linked either way.
WeatherSwap
The weather changes every turn, this would be based off the OU powerlevel and have mostly the Pokemon in it, though this could be subject to change if any Pokemon become overbarring because of the tier.
Potential bannable Pokemon which stick out to me is Basculegion or Walking Wake, Basculegion is an incredible Rain sweeper and Walking Wake benefits from both Sun and Rain while working as a solid choice in Sand and Snow still. Walking Wake has also proven to be a threat in Sun especially in regular OU.
Would it be better for the weather changes to be random or go in order? An example of this would be Rain --> Sun --> Sand --> Snow or something like that.
IMPORTANT EDIT:
Yeah RNG with turn order would suck so it would go in the order I put above.
The weather changes every turn, this would be based off the OU powerlevel and have mostly the Pokemon in it, though this could be subject to change if any Pokemon become overbarring because of the tier.
Potential bannable Pokemon which stick out to me is Basculegion or Walking Wake, Basculegion is an incredible Rain sweeper and Walking Wake benefits from both Sun and Rain while working as a solid choice in Sand and Snow still. Walking Wake has also proven to be a threat in Sun especially in regular OU.
Would it be better for the weather changes to be random or go in order? An example of this would be Rain --> Sun --> Sand --> Snow or something like that.
IMPORTANT EDIT:
Yeah RNG with turn order would suck so it would go in the order I put above.
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I see a lot of metagame based around the OU or Ubers powerlevels. Would it hypothetically be possible to make one for, say, UU or lower power level? Just for personal preference?
This already existed
Commonly Rejected Metagame Ideas:
I want to be a Smogon Tier Leader when I grow up: Tiers made up of Underused(/Bad in ubers) Uber pokemon or a usage based tier under ZU. Basically, no usage based tiers.
Also, this is just a fundamental misunderstanding of what an OM is. An OM isn't "Ubers or OU + a rule/mechanic", it's "Pokemon + a rule/mechanic". Using tiers as 'power levels' is arbitrary, because tiers exist on the fundamentally different metagame that is standard. Standard play has no ruling on what is good/bad/broken in an OM, nor what Pokemon should be on the initial banlist. A metagame using the OU Banlist to start isn't "OU + a rule/mechanic", it's a metagame that bans things that would be broken in that specific metagame. The idea of a metagame at the power level of X tier is just "Metagame + Rule", which isn't what OMs areI want to be a Smogon Tier Leader when I grow up: Tiers made up of Underused(/Bad in ubers) Uber pokemon or a usage based tier under ZU. Basically, no usage based tiers.
It would have to be a set order, there shouldnt be unnecessary RNG.
We don't actually accept ideas that just say "we are gonna use X's banlist", all bans should be there for balancing reasons, if someone just go to the actual submission saying "this is OU powerlevel" we shut it down or ask for an actual banlist, all OM have to be as independent as possible from any other format.
I didn't check all previous metagames existing so far, but I think this wasn't suggested yet. I didn't mention it before, but thank you in advance for your interest and comments !
Single battle 6v6. A Pokémon replaces its last move used with the opponent's as soon as the latter is defeated with.
Example : Dragapult [Choice Specs] vs Spidops [Focus Sash]
1st turn => Spidops manadges to put the Sticky Web on the ground despite losing its Focus Sash because of Flamethrower;
Flamethrower/Draco Meteor/U-Turn/Shadow Ball =>
Sticky Web/Spikes/Circle Throw/Memento
2nd turn => Dragapult moves first and defeats Spidops, then replaces its move Flamethrower with Sticky Web.
Sticky Web/Draco Meteor/U-Turn/Shadow Ball
This includes :
Pokémons : Arceus (all forms), Calyrex-Ice, Calyrex-Shadow, Dialga (both forms), Ethernatus, Giratina (both forms), Groudon, Koraidon, Kyogre, Landorus, Magearna (both forms), Mewtwo, Miraidon, Palafin (both forms), Palkia (both forms), Rayquaza, Spectrier, Zacian (both forms), Zamazenta (both forms) ;
Abilities : Arena Trap, Contrary, Moody, Sand Veil, Shadow Tag, Snow Cloack, Speed Boost ;
Moves : Baton Pass, Last Respects, Shed Tail, Shell Smash.
Q&A :
Q1 : Do Pokémons that changed moves keep them once out of battle ?
A1 : Yes, they do.
Q2 : Does the replacement happen when Pokémons use suicide moves ?
A2 : Yes, only if Pokémons on both sides faint.
Q3 : What happens if a Pokémon defeats its opponent before it could do anything ?
A3 : There's no move change happening.
Q4 : Does the replacement happen if the opponent is hit by a physical/special move and faints because of a secondary effect ?
A4+N : No, the process only works with hits, so secondary effects are ignored. Note : as a consequence, for example, a Pokémon can't get a new move if it defeated its opponent with statut moves like Confuse Ray/Toxic/Will-o-wisp/Leech Seed/Destiny Bond/Sandstorm ; but it could do it with Assist/Copycat/Me First/Metronome/Mirror Move.
Updatemon
Metagame Premise :
Single battle 6v6. A Pokémon replaces its last move used with the opponent's as soon as the latter is defeated with.
Example : Dragapult [Choice Specs] vs Spidops [Focus Sash]
1st turn => Spidops manadges to put the Sticky Web on the ground despite losing its Focus Sash because of Flamethrower;
Flamethrower/Draco Meteor/U-Turn/Shadow Ball =>Sticky Web/Spikes/Circle Throw/Memento2nd turn => Dragapult moves first and defeats Spidops, then replaces its move Flamethrower with Sticky Web.
Sticky Web/Draco Meteor/U-Turn/Shadow BallThis includes :
- Unlimited change : one moveslot can have a new move as many times as opponents are defeated with.
- Complete set change : all moveslots can have a new move.
- Latent change : A Pokémon won't change moves if its opponent faints from status/hazards/weather/latent (Doom Desire, Future Sight/Leech Seed/Sandstorm) damages.
- Same Move Clause : Pokémons from a same team can't share identical moves ;
- Smogon-wide Clause.
Pokémons : Arceus (all forms), Calyrex-Ice, Calyrex-Shadow, Dialga (both forms), Ethernatus, Giratina (both forms), Groudon, Koraidon, Kyogre, Landorus, Magearna (both forms), Mewtwo, Miraidon, Palafin (both forms), Palkia (both forms), Rayquaza, Spectrier, Zacian (both forms), Zamazenta (both forms) ;
Abilities : Arena Trap, Contrary, Moody, Sand Veil, Shadow Tag, Snow Cloack, Speed Boost ;
Moves : Baton Pass, Last Respects, Shed Tail, Shell Smash.
Q&A :
Q1 : Do Pokémons that changed moves keep them once out of battle ?
A1 : Yes, they do.
Q2 : Does the replacement happen when Pokémons use suicide moves ?
A2 : Yes, only if Pokémons on both sides faint.
Q3 : What happens if a Pokémon defeats its opponent before it could do anything ?
A3 : There's no move change happening.
Q4 : Does the replacement happen if the opponent is hit by a physical/special move and faints because of a secondary effect ?
A4+N : No, the process only works with hits, so secondary effects are ignored. Note : as a consequence, for example, a Pokémon can't get a new move if it defeated its opponent with statut moves like Confuse Ray/Toxic/Will-o-wisp/Leech Seed/Destiny Bond/Sandstorm ; but it could do it with Assist/Copycat/Me First/Metronome/Mirror Move.
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SHARING is CARING! (WIP) (IDEA)
This is a metagame where all Pokemon share the effects of the items they bring into battle.
The Rules:
This is a metagame where all Pokemon share the effects of the items they bring into battle.
The Rules:
- -Each Item held by a team member applies it's effect to the rest of the team (only once, multiple Leftover's don't stack)
- -Item's restrictions and downsides apply as well, example, Eviolite would still only work on pre-evolutions
- -If the holder loses it's item, the rest of the team loses it's effect
- -Single use items work as is normal, aka only once for each pokemon but if the original user uses it then the rest of the team does as well
- -There is no item restriction so multiples can be brought to counteract moves like Trick and Knock Off if you are willing to sacrifice the item slot.
- -Fainting a Pokemon removes an item from play, Revival Blessing brings it back into play
- -Gaining Items applies their effects to the team, example, being tricked Sticky Barb, having harvest proc (berry also acts as a new item meaning it can re-proc on others)
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I'm not sure single-use items can be coded as stated. Also, this seems very unbalanced; for example, Choice Band + Life Orb + Sharp Beak + Sky Plate is a massive power boost and still leaves you with two more slots for other items. I don't think any combination of defensive items can even come close to that (unless you use Eviolite + Assault Vest, which has massive downsides).
This concept is kind of obvious and kind of bland, but I'm curious if anyone would find it fun.
Strong Pieces (excluding likely bans)
This idea is made to be future-proof, so it can be iterated upon in future Generations without too much hassle or upkeep.
EDIT: Having reread the rules, this is a very "National-Dex"-ey an idea, which I understand might be against the rules. The format could be altered to only include Pokemon present in the Existing Generations and the Current Generation; even if that wasn't the initial idea, it probably would accomplish a fair amount of what I want it to, but it does sort of ruin some of the appeal. (Unless there are relevant Nat-Dex Other Metagames? I didn't check admittedly.)
7, 8, 9
A meta featuring only Pokémon from the latest three Generations played under the ruleset of the current Generation.
A meta featuring only Pokémon from the latest three Generations played under the ruleset of the current Generation.
- Pokémon introduced prior to the earliest available Generation, in this case Generation Seven, do not exist.
- Regional Forms are tied to the Generation the Form was introduced to, rather than the Base Pokémon. All Regional Forms, Alolan, Galarian, Hisuian, and Paldean, are all available.
- Evolutions of Old Gen Pokémon don't learn any moves that can only be passed forward from learning them prior to existing Gens, or moves exclusive to Pre-Evos that don't exist.
- Example: Ursaluna cannot learn Baby-Doll Eyes. The move is only available to Ursaluna by first learning it as a Teddiursa, which no longer exists.
- Mechanics are tied to the Current Generation. This includes moves, abilities, items, base stats, etc.
- It also includes gimmicks, so 7, 8, 9 will feature Terastalization (unless it is banned separately)
- Pokémon that don't exist in the Current Generation have access to all moves they had as of their latest appearance, but do not have access to moves that no longer exist in the Current Gen.
- Points of concern; Snowscape for Hail learners, Universal TM Toxic inconsistencies, Tutor-move stuff. Likely that everything is simply going to be left as-is, even with the inconsistencies.
Very obvious Bans listed here
Probably worth Banning; Pokemon that I strongly suspect will be too powerful, but could be convinced otherwise about.
Zacian, Zacian-Crowned, Zamazenta-Crowned, Eternatus, Calyrex-Shadow, Calyrex-Ice, Koraidon, Miraidon, Solgaleo, Lunala, Necrozma-Dawn, Necrozma-Dusk, Marshadow, Melmetal, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Spectrier, Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle, Pheromosa, Darmanitan-Galar, Palafin, Dracovish, Naganadel, Urshifu-S
Standard ability bans (Moody, Arena Trap, etc.) and move bans (Baton Pass, Shed Tail, Last Respects)
Standard ability bans (Moody, Arena Trap, etc.) and move bans (Baton Pass, Shed Tail, Last Respects)
Probably worth Banning; Pokemon that I strongly suspect will be too powerful, but could be convinced otherwise about.
- Zamazenta-Hero, Tapu-Lele, Blacephalon, Kartana, Magearna
- Regieleki, Tapu-Koko, Kingambit, Espathra, Annihilape)
- Dragapult, Iron Moth, Roaring Moon, Baxcalibur, Urshifu-R,
Aegislash,(oops) Enamorus-I, Iron Valiant, Gholdengo
Strong Pieces (excluding likely bans)
- Offense
(Rapid) , 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
- Walls
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, , 
, 
- Tanks
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
- Breakers
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
,
, 
, 
- Setup Sweepers
, 
, , 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
- Weather / Terrain
- Setters
- ,
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
(no Drought, Drizzle, or Sand Stream!)
- Abusers
, 
, 
, , 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
- Setters
- Hazard Focus
, 
, 
, 
, 
, , , , 
, 
, 
- Other Fun Stuff
, 
, , 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
This idea is made to be future-proof, so it can be iterated upon in future Generations without too much hassle or upkeep.
EDIT: Having reread the rules, this is a very "National-Dex"-ey an idea, which I understand might be against the rules. The format could be altered to only include Pokemon present in the Existing Generations and the Current Generation; even if that wasn't the initial idea, it probably would accomplish a fair amount of what I want it to, but it does sort of ruin some of the appeal. (Unless there are relevant Nat-Dex Other Metagames? I didn't check admittedly.)
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I like this a lot, but I do have a few questions/concerns with it
- Is this different enough from standard play to be fun? Many teams tend to carry multiple of the same item-- multiple Leftovers, multiple Heavy-Duty Boots, Multiple Booster Energy, etc. While this meta does encourage item variety, does it encourage it enough to be substantially different from standard play?
- This feels like a *very* fat-oriented metagame. One or Two leftovers on the team means that everything from your sweepers to your walls are always regaining HP, while discouraging Choice Items / Life Orb at the same time. I feel like this discourages different styles of play, which isn't a bad thing, but does seem like a balancing issue. Sure, you have potentially crazy things like Band/Specs + Scarf or ChoiceTrick, but at the same time those items demand an entire team to be built around them and are quite easily played around.
- Knock Off becomes incredibly overcentralizing, to a degree that I'm surprised it isn't on the initial watchlist. Knock Off is a great move when its' just removing one item, let alone functionally removing six. The same applies to Trick/Switcheroo to a lesser degree. Something like Meowscarada is going to be overbearing with the combination of Knock Off, Trick, and Taunt.
This concept is kind of obvious and kind of bland, but I'm curious if anyone would find it fun.
7, 8, 9
A meta featuring only Pokémon from the latest three Generations played under the ruleset of the current Generation.
- Evolutions of Old Gen Pokémon don't learn any moves that can only be passed forward from learning them prior to existing Gens, or moves exclusive to Pre-Evos that don't exist.
- Mechanics are tied to the Current Generation. This includes moves, abilities, items, base stats, etc.
- It also includes gimmicks, so 7, 8, 9 will feature Terastalization (unless it is banned separately)
- Points of concern; Snowscape for Hail learners, Universal TM Toxic inconsistencies, Tutor-move stuff. Likely that everything is simply going to be left as-is, even with the inconsistencies.
Very obvious Bans listed here
Zacian, Zacian-Crowned, Zamazenta-Crowned, Eternatus, Calyrex-Shadow, Calyrex-Ice, Koraidon, Miraidon, Solgaleo, Lunala, Necrozma-Dawn, Necrozma-Dusk, Marshadow, Melmetal, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Spectrier, Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle, Pheromosa, Darmanitan-Galar, Palafin, Dracovish, Naganadel, Urshifu-S
Standard ability bans (Moody, Arena Trap, etc.) and move bans (Baton Pass, Shed Tail, Last Respects)
Probably worth Banning; Pokemon that I strongly suspect will be too powerful, but could be convinced otherwise about.
Banned alongside Tera; Pokemon that could be OK without Tera but are definitely too strong because of the mechanic in this environment.
- Zamazenta-Hero, Tapu-Lele, Blacephalon, Kartana, Magearna
Other stuff that might be too strong, I'd leave them in to start and see if they're broken.
- Regieleki, Tapu-Koko, Kingambit, Espathra, Annihilape)
The loss of Gens 1-6 cuts out a lot more Defense than Offense compared to Current Gen OU. So, while these aren't necessarily Ubers in any existing settings, lacking certain checks like Heatran, Zapdos, or Amoonguss might make these unexpectedly powerful.
- Dragapult, Iron Moth, Roaring Moon, Baxcalibur, Urshifu-R, Aegislash, Enamorus-I, Iron Valiant, Gholdengo
Strong Pieces (excluding likely bans)
Super far from being perfectly complete or accurate but hopefully it paints a picture.
- Offense
- Walls
- Tanks
,
- Breakers
- Setup Sweepers
- Weather / Terrain
- Setters
- Abusers
- Hazard Focus
- Other Fun Stuff
This idea is made to be future-proof, so it can be iterated upon in future Generations without too much hassle or upkeep.
EDIT: Having reread the rules, this is a very "National-Dex"-ey an idea, which I understand might be against the rules. The format could be altered to only include Pokemon present in the Existing Generations and the Current Generation; even if that wasn't the initial idea, it probably would accomplish a fair amount of what I want it to, but it does sort of ruin some of the appeal. (Unless there are relevant Nat-Dex Other Metagames? I didn't check admittedly.)
An other metagame should be able to build upon the current meta, not take away from it, and if it does take away from it, doing so in a way that it gives something back of equal or greater depth or value. Your idea sounds a lot more like a Pet Mod, try submitting your idea there.
Speaking of which,
Isn't that every metagame? AFAIK MissingNo. has never been allowed. /s
(omitted the part that said Flying Type + Bird based pokémon, for transparency)
you can't convince me they don't already /s
Again, I don't mean to undermine or offend any of these metagames, their council/leaders, or even the common rejections I've listed (even the ones I haven't listed - cmon, Praise Mimez could be a funny april fools joke). I'd just be interested in hearing what makes the metagames we have different from the ones listed in the common rejections.
Been rereading this recently for fun and some examples seem either very similar to existing metagames or metagames we've had in the past. This confuses me because I don't find any indication of if it's a bad idea, or just that it's been done before (or both)? I'm not saying that the elements presented in those sometimes can't be tweaked or built upon to make them more interesting, I just might like some clarity on why/how some of these were accepted. I think it could also give some helpful pointers, too.
Debated putting this one on here, but I think "Inheritance with one extra step" is kind of unclear. Frantic Fusions was accepted recently and it is Inheritance but instead of moves you inherit a quarter of the base stats, and you get to decide if you want to keep your original abilities or not. I get that it was a Pet Mod prior to being an OM, but was it greenlit due to nostalgia or did it differ enough to warrant being an OM? It's also entirely possible that "Please no more fake Inheritances" means that we already have enough of metagames with a similar concept to inheritance (CE comes to mind as well), and not that an Inheritance clone is a bad concept and you guys are getting way too many requests for these, in which case I simply misread.
Aside from abilities, that's Alphabet Cup. The complexity of bans for moves is basically "anything that doesn't normally learn them can't use them, except for these specific moves", which... I don't find too complex, but I can see newcomers being confused on why Annihilape can Rage Fist but Corviknight can't, and Houndstone can't use Last Respects. These are obvious and reasonable bans, of course, just an example. I guess I'm more curious on what made the scale tip with this one.
This was Scalemons last gen. Is this one of the reasons why there isn't a gen 9 scalemons, or is it just lack of leadership?
(omitted the part that said Flying Type + Bird based pokémon, for transparency)
Although the typing has to be exact, this is Convergence. You even get access to abilities. I suppose having the exact typing and dex cuts narrowed down the possibilities for really broken combos?
As stated by KaenSoul, this existed once as Haxmons. Is it there so no one suggests it again? Or was it a bad metagame?
Full Potential sounds like a beefed-up version of this, minus the defense part.
This is First Blood. Again, was it a bad metagame, or merely there for repetition?
I don't even have to name the metagame for this one.
Unless I'm mistaken, isn't this Godly Gift minus the vice-versa? I might be misinterpreting.
Three turns? Not fast enough. Make that one move, unless you target yourself. That's VoltTurn Mayhem. Prankster Taunt says hi, btw. Hope you're a dark type if you plan on staying in.
Nature Swap was basically a boosted version of this. Put this under the "wha happun" section with the other old metagames.
Well instead of individual base stats, it's the entire base stat total, but yeah, that treshold is 350. Rip Krokorok
Again, I don't mean to undermine or offend any of these metagames, their council/leaders, or even the common rejections I've listed (even the ones I haven't listed - cmon, Praise Mimez could be a funny april fools joke). I'd just be interested in hearing what makes the metagames we have different from the ones listed in the common rejections.
I think it's actually the opposite problem: it's too easy for HO teams to tear fat teams apart. Brave Bird spam can OHKO virtually every non-resist and 2HKO all but the fattest resists (and with good predictions you can take out Garganacl/Kingambit with coverage moves), and there are probably other types that could be spammed as well.
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Zapdos-Galar Brave Bird (173 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 458-539 (103.1 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(+1 to simulate Choice Band, and 173BP for Sky Plate + Sharp Beak)
If all Choice items (or at least Band and Specs) were banned, then fat teams might be hard to beat due to Leftovers, Covert Cloak, HDB, etc.
This idea is quite fun, I imagine it could suffer from some balancing problems, as stacking offensive items is much easier than defensive, it should be possible to balance that out with proper tiering of the items, but you would have to be careful to not go so far that all the interesting strategies end banned.
Well, for starters we avoid having formats that are too similar to each other, some of those ideas were blacklisted after the metagames we have were made, as we don't need multiple trying to take on the same concept. They are often added there after someone tries to submit a format that is just a different version of another, there may also be older versions of formats that were changed in an effort to fix something about them.Speaking of which,
Been rereading this recently for fun and some examples seem either very similar to existing metagames or metagames we've had in the past. This confuses me because I don't find any indication of if it's a bad idea, or just that it's been done before (or both)? I'm not saying that the elements presented in those sometimes can't be tweaked or built upon to make them more interesting, I just might like some clarity on why/how some of these were accepted. I think it could also give some helpful pointers, too.
Debated putting this one on here, but I think "Inheritance with one extra step" is kind of unclear. Frantic Fusions was accepted recently and it is Inheritance but instead of moves you inherit a quarter of the base stats, and you get to decide if you want to keep your original abilities or not. I get that it was a Pet Mod prior to being an OM, but was it greenlit due to nostalgia or did it differ enough to warrant being an OM? It's also entirely possible that "Please no more fake Inheritances" means that we already have enough of metagames with a similar concept to inheritance (CE comes to mind as well), and not that an Inheritance clone is a bad concept and you guys are getting way too many requests for these, in which case I simply misread.
Aside from abilities, that's Alphabet Cup. The complexity of bans for moves is basically "anything that doesn't normally learn them can't use them, except for these specific moves", which... I don't find too complex, but I can see newcomers being confused on why Annihilape can Rage Fist but Corviknight can't, and Houndstone can't use Last Respects. These are obvious and reasonable bans, of course, just an example. I guess I'm more curious on what made the scale tip with this one.
This was Scalemons last gen. Is this one of the reasons why there isn't a gen 9 scalemons, or is it just lack of leadership?
Isn't that every metagame? AFAIK MissingNo. has never been allowed. /s
(omitted the part that said Flying Type + Bird based pokémon, for transparency)
Although the typing has to be exact, this is Convergence. You even get access to abilities. I suppose having the exact typing and dex cuts narrowed down the possibilities for really broken combos?
As stated by KaenSoul, this existed once as Haxmons. Is it there so no one suggests it again? Or was it a bad metagame?
Full Potential sounds like a beefed-up version of this, minus the defense part.
This is First Blood. Again, was it a bad metagame, or merely there for repetition?
I don't even have to name the metagame for this one.
Unless I'm mistaken, isn't this Godly Gift minus the vice-versa? I might be misinterpreting.
you can't convince me they don't already /s
Three turns? Not fast enough. Make that one move, unless you target yourself. That's VoltTurn Mayhem. Prankster Taunt says hi, btw. Hope you're a dark type if you plan on staying in.
Nature Swap was basically a boosted version of this. Put this under the "wha happun" section with the other old metagames.
Well instead of individual base stats, it's the entire base stat total, but yeah, that treshold is 350. Rip Krokorok
Again, I don't mean to undermine or offend any of these metagames, their council/leaders, or even the common rejections I've listed (even the ones I haven't listed - cmon, Praise Mimez could be a funny april fools joke). I'd just be interested in hearing what makes the metagames we have different from the ones listed in the common rejections.
Old formats can come back at any time if someone submit them, it is not an automatic process, if their old council doesn't do it then someone else can ask if they can lead it instead.
For both, there may be exceptions, a format that may be trying to return could end rejected because it did poorly the previous generation (like never winning OMotM voting or having extremely low games played during those months), and an idea that may not look original enough at first can be approved if you can convince the staff that is actually good or that it would be distinct enough in practice and appeal from what may look like similar formats.
Thanks! That clears up a lot, thank you for the clarification!
I swear I had this exact same idea but was afraid to post.
If one team member (e.g. Breloom) has Toxic Orb, another team member (e.g. Ursaluna) has Flame Orb, and you lead with a 3rd team member (e.g. Dragapult), which orb procs/triggers first? Would it be random or not?
Also, by "but if the original user uses it then the rest of the team does as well" regarding single-use items, does that mean that the rest of the team procs the item successfully when the original holder uses it (e.g. original Sitrus Berry holder is Rotom-W, Rotom-W eats its Sitrus Berry, does the 90%-HP Blissey in the back heal too?), or do they attempt to proc it but conditionally fail (e.g. that Blissey doesn't heal, but 26%-HP Baxcalibur in the back heals)?
Regardless of whether this is better off in the Pet Mods section or not...This concept is kind of obvious and kind of bland, but I'm curious if anyone would find it fun.
7, 8, 9
A meta featuring only Pokémon from the latest three Generations played under the ruleset of the current Generation.
- Pokémon introduced prior to the earliest available Generation, in this case Generation Seven, do not exist.
- Regional Forms are tied to the Generation the Form was introduced to, rather than the Base Pokémon. All Regional Forms, Alolan, Galarian, Hisuian, and Paldean, are all available.
- Evolutions of Old Gen Pokémon don't learn any moves that can only be passed forward from learning them prior to existing Gens, or moves exclusive to Pre-Evos that don't exist.
- Example: Ursaluna cannot learn Baby-Doll Eyes. The move is only available to Ursaluna by first learning it as a Teddiursa, which no longer exists.
- Mechanics are tied to the Current Generation. This includes moves, abilities, items, base stats, etc.
- It also includes gimmicks, so 7, 8, 9 will feature Terastalization (unless it is banned separately)
- Pokémon that don't exist in the Current Generation have access to all moves they had as of their latest appearance, but do not have access to moves that no longer exist in the Current Gen.
- Points of concern; Snowscape for Hail learners, Universal TM Toxic inconsistencies, Tutor-move stuff. Likely that everything is simply going to be left as-is, even with the inconsistencies.
Very obvious Bans listed here
Zacian, Zacian-Crowned, Zamazenta-Crowned, Eternatus, Calyrex-Shadow, Calyrex-Ice, Koraidon, Miraidon, Solgaleo, Lunala, Necrozma-Dawn, Necrozma-Dusk, Marshadow, Melmetal, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Spectrier, Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle, Pheromosa, Darmanitan-Galar, Palafin, Dracovish, Naganadel, Urshifu-S
Standard ability bans (Moody, Arena Trap, etc.) and move bans (Baton Pass, Shed Tail, Last Respects)
Probably worth Banning; Pokemon that I strongly suspect will be too powerful, but could be convinced otherwise about.
Banned alongside Tera; Pokemon that could be OK without Tera but are definitely too strong because of the mechanic in this environment.
- Zamazenta-Hero, Tapu-Lele, Blacephalon, Kartana, Magearna
Other stuff that might be too strong, I'd leave them in to start and see if they're broken.
- Regieleki, Tapu-Koko, Kingambit, Espathra, Annihilape)
The loss of Gens 1-6 cuts out a lot more Defense than Offense compared to Current Gen OU. So, while these aren't necessarily Ubers in any existing settings, lacking certain checks like Heatran, Zapdos, or Amoonguss might make these unexpectedly powerful.
- Dragapult, Iron Moth, Roaring Moon, Baxcalibur, Urshifu-R, Aegislash, Enamorus-I, Iron Valiant, Gholdengo
Strong Pieces (excluding likely bans)
Super far from being perfectly complete or accurate but hopefully it paints a picture.
- Offense
- Walls
- Tanks
- Breakers
- Setup Sweepers
- Weather / Terrain
- Setters
- Abusers
- Hazard Focus
- Other Fun Stuff
This idea is made to be future-proof, so it can be iterated upon in future Generations without too much hassle or upkeep.
EDIT: Having reread the rules, this is a very "National-Dex"-ey an idea, which I understand might be against the rules. The format could be altered to only include Pokemon present in the Existing Generations and the Current Generation; even if that wasn't the initial idea, it probably would accomplish a fair amount of what I want it to, but it does sort of ruin some of the appeal. (Unless there are relevant Nat-Dex Other Metagames? I didn't check admittedly.)
...Chuck Aegislash from this meta entirely; it's from Gen 6.