National Dex General Information and Simple Questions Thread

[Cabneet]

Is there any reason to use Deo-D instead of Mew?

Uuuuhhh pressure?
Theres not much reason, honestly, and I dont feel like either CM deo-d or mew serve very good checks to magearna or lele.
Ferrothorn, heatran, melmetal, mega scizor and other strong steels are much better checks to both of those mons, depending on what coverage they run.

If you dont need to check both in the same slot, thick poisons like mega venusaur and toxapex can generally handle most magearna (though CM electrium obviously beats pex, idk how common that set still is in 2020)

 

[VCrakeV]

How volatile is the meta currently? It seems to have changed a lot since last month. For example, Zard Y was hardly used in December, but I keep running into it on the ladder. Oddly enough, I haven't even seen it paired with Dugtrio yet. I see Zard Y more than Mega Blastoise, which I hardly see at all.

Is using the usage statistics to predict what I should see on the ladder a bad idea? It just seems like the meta has changed too much since last month, because almost every match there is a Pokemon I didn't expect to see.

 

[N_Mareanie]

How volatile is the meta currently? It seems to have changed a lot since last month. For example, Zard Y was hardly used in December, but I keep running into it on the ladder. Oddly enough, I haven't even seen it paired with Dugtrio yet. I see Zard Y more than Mega Blastoise, which I hardly see at all.

Is using the usage statistics to predict what I should see on the ladder a bad idea? It just seems like the meta has changed too much since last month, because almost every match there is a Pokemon I didn't expect to see.

The meta is still very hectic and new, and at the very beginning of the meta. People are still trying to figure out what works well and what doesn't. Thus the meta will change a lot within a short amount of time.

 

[The Amazonian Rainforest]

This meta will undergo constant change over the next few months. Arena Trap, Mega Blastoise, Genesect, Zygarde, Mega Metagross, Aegislash, Darmanitan-Galar, one after the other these mons are gonna be suspected and the entire offensive scape is gonna change. I think it will iron out in 3-4 months.

 

[Dunfan]

Does the daycare egg move transfer applies to natdex mons as well?
(eg. making stuff like Seismic Toss(gen 3 tutor move) + Aromatherapy(gen 7 egg move) Illumise legal)

Blindly assuming yes, but it doesn't seem to be implemented yet.

 

[Pigeons]

Does the daycare egg move transfer applies to natdex mons as well?
(eg. making stuff like Seismic Toss(gen 3 tutor move) + Aromatherapy(gen 7 egg move) Illumise legal)

Blindly assuming yes, but it doesn't seem to be implemented yet.

This is an interesting question. In the example you gave, we probably would not allow it. Egg move transfer is a mechanic exclusive to gen 8 and applying it retroactively when the moves a Pokemon learns via eggs have changed this gen is pretty blatantly speculatory. What currently isn't implemented is things like Seismic Toss (Gen 3 tutor move) + Recover (Gen 8 egg move) being legal on non-HA Quagsire. Since Quagsire can undergo egg move transfer legally then I see no reason why this sort of combination wouldn't be legalized. I'll bring this issue up with Nat Dex council and we'll see how it pans out.

 

[VCrakeV]

What EV spread(s) have people been using on Tyranitar lately?

 

[sumwun]

| Spreads |
| Adamant:252/252/0/0/4/0 32.202% |
| Adamant:52/252/0/0/0/204 20.999% |
| Adamant:40/252/0/0/48/168 14.918% |
| Adamant:0/252/0/0/4/252 6.502% |
| Adamant:248/252/0/0/0/8 4.051% |
| Adamant:132/252/0/0/0/124 2.091% |
| Other 19.237%

In case you didn't know already, all the usage stats are here.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Why is Corviknight considered better than Celesteela right now other than its access to recovery? Or at least what sets the two apart?

 

[Funbot28]

Why is Corviknight considered better than Celesteela right now other than its access to recovery? Or at least what sets the two apart?

Not only access to reliable recovery, but Corviknight's ability to pivot out against incoming threats with U-turn combined with the ability to provide Defog + Pressure support to harass a large amount of hazard setters makes it more favourable in the current meta despite Celesteela's better special bulk.

 

[KirbCena]

What are the dominant archetypes rn and what are the best cores to build around for those archetypes?

 

[658Greninja]

What are the dominant archetypes rn and what are the best cores to build around for those archetypes?

Balance and Screens HO are the strongest archetypes imo. FWG cores like Bro/Tran/Amoonguss is great for Balance while Grimm + Mega-Toise is a great core for Screens.

 

[KirbCena]

Balance and Screens HO are the strongest archetypes imo. FWG cores like Bro/Tran/Amoonguss is great for Balance while Grimm + Mega-Toise is a great core for Screens.

Alright, good to know. Thanks!

Is there any particular wincon that works well for Balance rn? Ik Reuniclus is kinda decent, but I'm exactly sure what else would be reasonable to build around besides maybe Zygarde.

 

[Predator145]

Balance and Screens HO are the strongest archetypes imo. FWG cores like Bro/Tran/Amoonguss is great for Balance while Grimm + Mega-Toise is a great core for Screens.

Who would provide hazard control for the Bro/Tran/Amoonguss core? I used a similar one with Toad/RotomH/Amoonguss that compresses both rocks and defog.

 

[Cabneet]

Who would provide hazard control for the Bro/Tran/Amoonguss core?

On paper Lando sounds like it has good synergy with those 3. Corv can also U-turn pivot spam in tandem with bro, but loses out on having an electric immunity.

 

[Predator145]

On paper Lando sounds like it has good synergy with those 3. Corv can also U-turn pivot spam in tandem with bro, but loses out on having an electric immunity.

So Lando would be offensive defog with either SD or scarf? If lando is a bulky spread as well I fear the team loses too much offensive presence. But I guess bulky defog Lando or Corv would fit with offensive Heatran. The type synergy is still great.

 

[Cabneet]

Is there any particular wincon that works well for Balance rn?.

Genesect often can win on it's own in the late game.

So Lando would be offensive defog with either SD or scarf? If lando is a bulky spread as well I fear the team loses too much offensive presence. But I guess bulky defog Lando or Corv would fit with offensive Heatran. The type synergy is still great.

I am kind of torn on what kind of set to run, honestly. SD lando is better at setting rocks than keeping them off, and scarf defog seems like a massive liability in this hyper offensive meta.
Honestly I WOULD run a bulky set rn for slow uturns and to fully counter dracozolt from full without having to worry about z draco (offensive landorus is also OHKO'd by banded double iron bash after intimidate while defensive survives, and neither OHKO in return)
Torn is also as good of a defogger as ever if you want to better diddle fat teams

 

[Rarycaris]

What sets does Zygarde typically run in this meta?

 

[sumwun]

What sets does Zygarde typically run in this meta?

https://www.smogon.com/stats/
Click a date, click "movesets", and click "gen8nationaldex-1760.txt". Y'all don't need this thread to answer your usage stat questions.

 

[N_Mareanie]

I don't know how much support is behind a National Dex UU, but if we were to create one, this would be the banlist (using 1630 stats).

Hide

Pokemon that were either Ubers or OU last gen that would now be UU

Hide

Every single UUBL from last gen is back, as well as some old UU picks that got some buffs like Mew, Gengar, Hydreigon, Rotom-Heat etc.

Idk how much demand there is for a NatDex UU, but I personally would love one and I know other people will too. It would start off hectic but we can just quickban the super problematic stuff, it shouldn't be that big a deal.

 

[KirbCena]

I don't know how much support is behind a National Dex UU, but if we were to create one, this would be the banlist (using 1630 stats).

Hide

View attachment 221351

Pokemon that were either Ubers or OU last gen that would now be UU

Hide

View attachment 221353

Every single UUBL from last gen is back, as well as some old UU picks that got some buffs like Mew, Gengar, Hydreigon, Rotom-Heat etc.

Idk how much demand there is for a NatDex UU, but I personally would love one and I know other people will too. It would start off hectic but we can just quickban the super problematic stuff, it shouldn't be that big a deal.

Holy moly! Just seeing the mons that would wind up in or ar least be tested in a theoretical NatDexUU makes me wish it existed even more! While we definitely won't know until or unless it becomes a thing, I think this gen's powercreep will bring at least a couple of the less stronger BL mons to less insane levels.

 

[VCrakeV]

I don't know how much support is behind a National Dex UU, but if we were to create one, this would be the banlist (using 1630 stats).

Hide

View attachment 221351

Pokemon that were either Ubers or OU last gen that would now be UU

Hide

View attachment 221353

Every single UUBL from last gen is back, as well as some old UU picks that got some buffs like Mew, Gengar, Hydreigon, Rotom-Heat etc.

Idk how much demand there is for a NatDex UU, but I personally would love one and I know other people will too. It would start off hectic but we can just quickban the super problematic stuff, it shouldn't be that big a deal.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is enough support. I'd love to try out this hypothetical NDUU, but there aren't even many players of NDOU. I've never seen 40 or more battles on the server, as opposed to the seemingly constant 100+ battles in OU.

Perhaps a tour would be a good idea? It may not help get a ladder up, but it might be fun in itself.

By the way, is there really enough reason to use the new cut off for national dex? Regardless of hypothetical tiering cut offs, I personally use the old cut off when building a team and deciding what to prep for (I try to prep for everything ~3.41% or higher in usage). It's for this reason I might start using shed shell on Corviknight.

 

[Zrp200]

Unfortunately, I don't think there is enough support. I'd love to try out this hypothetical NDUU, but there aren't even many players of NDOU. I've never seen 40 or more battles on the server, as opposed to the seemingly constant 100+ battles in OU.

Perhaps a tour would be a good idea? It may not help get a ladder up, but it might be fun in itself.

By the way, is there really enough reason to use the new cut off for national dex? Regardless of hypothetical tiering cut offs, I personally use the old cut off when building a team and deciding what to prep for (I try to prep for everything ~3.41% or higher in usage). It's for this reason I might start using shed shell on Corviknight.

How about a challenge-only format to start? That way you could run tours on it as well as play it much easier to help gauge interest. It's a whole lot harder to be interested in a format when you can't even play it for yourself.

I have no interest in playing it myself, but I do see the appeal, and as such I support this.

You can use this pastebin to create National Dex UU tournaments in the meantime. Simply paste it into the the room you want to create the tournament. If desired, users can create groupchats themselves to make tours by using the command /makegroupchat in any PS! room.

 

[Cabneet]

You know there's a lot of people mentioning that there isn't a lot of support for Natdex UU, but I disagree.
You know all those people who questioned why anyone would want to play Natdex with mons like Lando and Chansey in it?
Yeah, as scrub-tier as an opinion as this is, those are the people who would want Natdex UU. Indeed, many of the complaints people have with natdex, even some legitimate ones, wouldnt exist in a UU format.

 

[Predator145]

Now if the NDOU tier could be cleaned up from all the broken stuff running around you may attract some from the vast base of players who still stick to Gen7 OU. Most of them find Gen8 a stale disappointment. Me personally I can't see why on earth anyone would find limitation to be an improvement. I can't see myself sticking around for more Pokemon in the future if no new tiers are added. Playing Gen7 lower tiers is not a real option since they're pretty much dead.