Trick/Switcheroo could also be listed as a counter.
That doesn't mean it shouldn't be listed, otherwise we shouldn't list Roar/WW since "Ingrain is usually up"The only problem with that is that Trick and Switcheroo are blocked by Substitute, which is usually up.
Trick/Switcheroo could also be listed as a counter.
Generally, you only see Trick/ Switcheroo (in OU at least) on Alakazam, so it should be fairly predictable. However it could be mentioned, at least for the people that are making a BP team in UU, because it is fairly more common there.That doesn't mean it shouldn't be listed, otherwise we shouldn't list Roar/WW since "Ingrain is usually up"
Not to mention that team posted has even 1 Poke that doesn't have SUB, then there's an open opportunity.
Snatch seems like an interesting option. I used to use Roar in order to deal with Curselax on my BP team, and Snatch could have been better for that puporse. The main problem is that on the Pokemon you listed generally have better things to do, or are outright terrible (I'm looking at you Spinda). It might have potential, but I think it's uses are pretty limited. For example, it does steal recovery moves, but how often are things going to be damaged enough when facing a BP team that they need to use it? It seems to me the move has too little utility and is to situational to mention.Another reason to use Snatch, since that can steal Subs too, as well as recovery moves which see a lot of use on BP teams.
Completely agree. Snatch deserves a little mention but it shouldn't really be highlighted, it is too situational for most Pokemon. If you think about it, BP team members already have limits on there moveset. Typically it's: Baton Pass, Stat-Up Move, Attack-Move, Support move or Substitute. I just can't see how one could actually fit Snatch on someone's move set.Snatch seems like an interesting option. I used to use Roar in order to deal with Curselax on my BP team, and Snatch could have been better for that puporse. The main problem is that on the Pokemon you listed generally have better things to do, or are outright terrible (I'm looking at you Spinda). It might have potential, but I think it's uses are pretty limited. For example, it does steal recovery moves, but how often are things going to be damaged enough when facing a BP team that they need to use it? It seems to me the move has too little utility and is to situational to mention.
Awesome.Completely agree. Snatch deserves a little mention but it shouldn't really be highlighted, it is too situational for most Pokemon. If you think about it, BP team members already have limits on there moveset. Typically it's: Baton Pass, Stat-Up Move, Attack-Move, Support move or Substitute. I just can't see how one could actually fit Snatch on someone's move set.
I didn't re-read your guide so if you mentioned this already and I forgot I'm sorry but it should probably be mentioned (just briefly like a sentence) that it is recommended you keep a substitute up at all times, or at least as much as possible, just in-case of critical hits. You don't want your +6 in everything guy to fall to a critical hit (especially from a priority move).
As in response to your post that responded to me: Yeah, I'm having fun with a BP team because I was new to the concept of BP teams I kinda had to play around and experiment and it's developed a lot over time.
This guide is really coming along. I think BP teams are some of the hardest teams to use, they require insane prediction skills really and you basically have to know every Pokemon's possible move set because you'll struggle if he one guy goes down. That being said, I think this guide helps to break it down so someone might actually be able to build a successful BP team. Hope it goes on site soon as I think more people will be open to trying a BP Team, it's just a bit intimidating since they are hard to pull off in this hyper-offensive metagame, so a guide that breaks it down is perfect for this.
Also, rofl @ Spinda.
Chains is plural, so it should be have, not has.Baton pass chains, a fairly common strategy in ADV, has almost taken a back seat in D/P.
Did you mean "Access to Taunt is what differentiates"?Floatzel: Bulk Up, Taunt. It plays a lot like Espeon; he's extremely fast, and Bulk Up allows him take some hits. Access to Taunt is differentiates him from the others.
Speed and Attack need capitalization.Gliscor: Rock Polish, Taunt, Swords Dance, Stealth Rock. It is an extremely sturdy Baton Passer. He makes a good counter to Heracross and Tyranitar and can Baton Pass speed and attack, which is extremely unique. Taunt can stop Skarmory from Whirlwinding and Breloom from Sporing.
Somewhat funny-sounding phrasing, would sound better as "It can fit any role you need it to, and should be used if available".Mew said:It can fit any role you need it to, and is something that if you have access to it, you should use it.
Needs a period at the end.Perish Song: Forces a switch or causes a Pokemon to faint. It is blocked by Soundproof
Ground needs to be capitalized.Solrock: Calm Mind, Rock Polish, Psych Up/ Swagger. It is immune to ground and has useful resists. Not too much to say about this one.
Your absolutely correct about the Substitute thing, I only meant this AFTER you have Ingrain up.Awesome.
It is extremely useful to have a Substitute up often, but there are a few times that you have to be careful with that. The best example that I can think of is this: Say I have a Scizor out and they have Garchomp. I use Substitute, and they switch to Skarmory. Putting the Substitue up actually allowed my chain to be phazed and me to lose all of my boosts in the process. As a general reccommedation it is fine, but should I highlight on some times it might be better to predict and Baton Pass out instead? In the situation I mentioned, if I think Garchomp is going to switch, it would be better to BP out immedetly, and if they switch to Skarm like they did in the example, I could go to Smeragle. Spore, Sub, Ingrain and I'm set. What does everybody think?
Ok I'll enter that in. Should I include the example in the article?Your absolutely correct about the Substitute thing, I only meant this AFTER you have Ingrain up.
Going by that, shouldn't any apostrophy amalgamed words (e.g. "aren't") be changed to there full versions? (e.g. "are not").One little thing, I would remove the word "shitty." It's true and it's fine to say for a post on the forum but something that goes on site should be professional sounding, in my opinion, and it doesn't sound very professional. The rest of the guide seems to be of that nature so I would probably change it for another word, even just a simple "poor" would do.
whoa, I've actually tested this exact set with similar expectations and...... they failed me. Drifblim would be much better if you could stockpile 6 instead of 3; with that being said, its not a horrible option, but in a team where speed is a matter of essence, I'd rather just CM or Iron Defense up and pass on. He still can function as your primary CMer howeverGreat guide. After reading that, I'm considering getting me an ingrain Smeargle.
I've been playing around with an experimental Drifblim set recently.
Drifblim@citrus berry
Timid
Unburden
Stockpile/hypnosis
Thunderbolt
substitute
Not sure about Evs yet...It does need a good balance of speed and defense.
So the idea behind this is to pass fully intact subs to something like Umbreon. Switch in against a Pokemon who you expect to switch out and use cosmic power on the switch. Next turn, use substitute. Even if Drifblim has only 1 HP left from the attack, it can still make a sub because of the sitrus berry. It then becomes faster than the opponent due to unburden, and passes a fully intact sub on the next turn.
Of course, taunters are an issue...
A Baton Pass chain can still get victories.
Driftblim : 101+ Substitutes, Calm Mind. It has access to Unburden, which allows him to use a pinch berry and get off a Baton Pass. He has good typing, Hypnosis, and can pass extremely bulky Substitutes. Driftblim stands out as the only ghost that can Baton Pass.
Pokemon that sport the Spider Web/ Mean Look and Baton Pass combination are extremely useful to have on a Baton Pass team, but by no means required. If you manage to trap a wall like Blissey with them, your chain will be unbreakable. You will find that if you can trap the right thing, setting up and sweeping becomes a lot easier. Umbreon, Smeragle, Asbol, and Ariados are the only Pokemon that sport this combination, so you would have to choose between these four.
Example Team
In order to make sense of the explaination, an example team should help put everything in context, and give you ideas for your own Baton Pass team.
Speaking of Substitute, it is recommended that you keep a Substitute up as often as possible when you get Ingrain up. Substitute will protect you from critical hits that can cut through your defense boosts. They also stop against status and the move Trick. When you don't have Ingrain up yet, you should be more careful. Here's an example. Say they bring in Garchomp, and I pass to Vaporeon. I use Substitue, and he brings in Skarmory. Skarmory then proceeds to Whirlwind you, making you lose all of your boosts and your Substitue. Instead of using Substitute, it might have been smarter to Baton Pass and predict the switch. That way, if they actually go to Skarmory, you can bring in Smeragle and Spore, then Substitute, then Ingrain. If they keep Garchomp in, just go to your defense passer and set up. This kind of "prediction" is something that comes from experience.
One of the most difficult Pokemon to get out happens to be the most important to your Baton Pass Chain. Smeragle is extremely fragile, and if it faints you might be out of luck. Predicting to get Smeragle in against a Choice Specs Shadow Ball is too risky to be effective. The best way get Smeragle out is to either bring it out against a wall like Skarmory or Blissey, or pass a bulky Substitute that won't break on the switch. An early Ingrain is ideal, but it is often not worth the risk. The best way to ensure you get the Ingrain off is after you have a few defense boosts and a Substitute to pass to it. Smeragle is also the most vulnerable Pokemon in a Baton Pass chain to the move Taunt. If you aren't carrying a Shed Shell and you have Ingrain up, a well timed Taunt can leave you trapped and force you to Struggle. Don't take any unnecessary risks to get an early Ingrain or Spore, most of the time it isn't worth it.
I didn't forget per se, I just didn't put the passers that didn't have any potential in my eyes. Encore does nothing if its defenses are shit, and yeah Gengar uses Thunderbolt. Stealth Rock is also a huge issue. Thanks for reminding me that I should add a few more passers, but I doubt Ledian will be one of them.You completely forgot about ledian. With 252 Hp and 252 Sp def EV's its a 3hko against an Hp ice gengar. It can pass agility, swords dance and can abuse encore to get that set up. Encore is devastating when paired with baton pass.
With a focus sash to cover your ass against physical hits, you'd be in business to pass at least an agility for sure.