Lugia got Brave Bird in the Teal Disk DLC. The only thing bird about Lugia is it's feathers and the Kanto Birds. Give Aerodactyl Brave Bird now.
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Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations
- Thread starter Kurona
- Start date
CTNC
Doesn't know how to attack
There's something about the Indigo Disc TMs and a certain event exclusive Pokemon from the end of Gen 4. (No, not Arceus. :P)
I'm putting it in a spoiler tab in case anyone doesn't want spoilers about TMs.
I'm putting it in a spoiler tab in case anyone doesn't want spoilers about TMs.
The 12th Movie Shiny Pichu knew Endeavor, or at least he did when the event happened the first time. There was another event for when the 12th movie was released in South Korea this year, but he didn't know Endeavor this time. That makes sense because they're not making many event only moves any more. (Fly Pikachu in SV and Seismic Toss Charizard in SwSh are the only ones I can think of other than stuff like Celebrate.) Pichu's evolution chain couldn't learn Endeavor through Move Tutors before, but now they can learn it through TM 205! So, it seems like Endeavor Pichu would be fine in hindsight, right? Wrong. Pikachu and Raichu can learn Endeavor. Pichu can't. Even after giving its evolution chain Endeavor, Endeavor Pichu is still event only.
This isn't anything odd, but Flamigo also learns Endeavor through TM and has Feint for Priority. Just pointing that out because it's really fun against opponents that don't know your Level 1 Pokemon has Scrappy. Luring in Ghost types never gets old. :P
This isn't anything odd, but Flamigo also learns Endeavor through TM and has Feint for Priority. Just pointing that out because it's really fun against opponents that don't know your Level 1 Pokemon has Scrappy. Luring in Ghost types never gets old. :P
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Ever notice how much Sing is given out as an event move? It's one of those moves I always assume is way more widespread than it actually is, but it's only learned naturally by 5 Kanto lines, 2 Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Paldea lines and only 1 (non event-exclusive) Unova, Alola, and Galar line. Those that do get it are cute, fey Pokemon like Altaria, Delcatty, and Gossifleur, feminine-themed Pokemon like Blissey and Jynx, and sound-based Pokemon like Primarina, Meloetta, and Chatot. A bunch of Pokemon, however, get it either as an event move or a purification move: Meowth, Marowak, Kangaskhan, Ralts, Mawile, Gulpin, Snorunt, Pichu, Pikachu, Spinda, Eevee, and Piplup.
Event moves can occasionally feel quite out of place, but a lot of those Pokemon are really natural fits for Sing. Marowak and Kangaskhan in particular, since they're maternal species (and Marowak already gets Perish Song). I feel like it'd probably be a bit of a stretch for those two to learn it naturally given their monstrous aesthetic, but it's definitely the sort of move they should have gotten via breeding at least. Ralts, Snorunt, Gulpin, and Pikachu fit the bill as well, and overlap with enough cutesy species that learn it.
Event moves can occasionally feel quite out of place, but a lot of those Pokemon are really natural fits for Sing. Marowak and Kangaskhan in particular, since they're maternal species (and Marowak already gets Perish Song). I feel like it'd probably be a bit of a stretch for those two to learn it naturally given their monstrous aesthetic, but it's definitely the sort of move they should have gotten via breeding at least. Ralts, Snorunt, Gulpin, and Pikachu fit the bill as well, and overlap with enough cutesy species that learn it.
Presumably Sing is given as an event move because you sing when you're happy? It definitely feels like "This Eevee sings!" is a flavor way of making it feel different/better than a generic Eevee. And it's not a particularly strong move, so Sing isn't going to make something like Kangaskhan more busted if something changes for it's balance in the future, but it does open up a new option at lower-seriousness play.
Huh. Scovillain doesn't learn Fire Punch. I mean, it doesn't have GREAT punching arms, but it does have them and is a fire type, I'd expect it to learn the move alongside all the other Fire TMs it gets. It's not a relevant loss, but it is odd that's missing.
I think Scovillain might not get it for flavor reasons: if you look at the fire moves it gets it's all "projectiles" aside from Fire Fang, which is presumably the spicy head biting you.
So it's all on the head rather than the rest of the body, which is probably why it misses out on other primarily-physical staples like Flame Wheel or Flame Charge
Since ORAS, Plusle and Minun have naturally learned Bestow and Switcheroo respectively as similar moves that parallel each other. Bestow was removed in SWSH, and so this slot had to be replaced.
In BDSP they chose to give Skill Swap to Plusle (for the first time), but in SV they decided to take the easy way out and just gave Plusle Switcheroo as well. So now Plusle and Minun have the exact same levelup learnsets now that Minun's Trump Card has also been removed (replaced with Last Resort, which BDSP also did) and SV removed Fake Tears and Charm from both of their levelup pools for an unexplainable reason. It's pretty disappointing.
The odd thing is that SV also gave Plusle access to the Skill Swap TM for the first time, while Minun still lacks it. So I guess you could say this is a case of SV acknowledging a BDSP learnset addition in a way? Both of them already get Entrainment so they have some affinity with ability swapping at least, but I imagine no one particularly associated Plusle with Skill Swapping until BDSP.
Another move Plusle gets now over Minun is the Eerie Impulse TM, which I was actually hoping to use to shut down some special attackers. Meanwhile Minun doesn't have access to any other move over Plusle. This means that Plusle basically just has a bigger learnset than Minun by 2 TMs, or that Minun's learnset is now a subset of Plusle's when they used to be parallels. I don't understand what happened here.
In BDSP they chose to give Skill Swap to Plusle (for the first time), but in SV they decided to take the easy way out and just gave Plusle Switcheroo as well. So now Plusle and Minun have the exact same levelup learnsets now that Minun's Trump Card has also been removed (replaced with Last Resort, which BDSP also did) and SV removed Fake Tears and Charm from both of their levelup pools for an unexplainable reason. It's pretty disappointing.
The odd thing is that SV also gave Plusle access to the Skill Swap TM for the first time, while Minun still lacks it. So I guess you could say this is a case of SV acknowledging a BDSP learnset addition in a way? Both of them already get Entrainment so they have some affinity with ability swapping at least, but I imagine no one particularly associated Plusle with Skill Swapping until BDSP.
Another move Plusle gets now over Minun is the Eerie Impulse TM, which I was actually hoping to use to shut down some special attackers. Meanwhile Minun doesn't have access to any other move over Plusle. This means that Plusle basically just has a bigger learnset than Minun by 2 TMs, or that Minun's learnset is now a subset of Plusle's when they used to be parallels. I don't understand what happened here.
You've never seen a machine using acid? The typing has nothing to do with it.
Psychic types in fact often learn move types that are atypical for their secondary types, es the slowtwins learning Flamethrower, or most of them learning Shadow ball and / or Dark Pulse.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Not really a "why does this get that move?" post exactly, but I've been breeding a bunch of Pokemon in the VC titles recently and sending them up to Bank with some of the funkier transfer-exclusive moves available from the first two gens. Decided I'd do Chinchou next since Curse Chinchou could be interesting... it doesn't get much else of note from GSC except Zap Cannon, but looking at the full list of Chinchou's transfer-only moves in Gen VII, one of them is Sucker Punch. Oh right, Sucker Punch was a tutor move in Pt/HGSS.
A sizeable amount of Pokemon already learned that move naturally in Gen IV - most of the Pokemon who first got access to it via tutoring, such as the Houndour line, the Bellsprout line, Mr Mime, Wormadam, Huntail, and Hitmontop to name a few, eventually regained it in later generations via level or breeding. Interestingly, Nidoran-F couldn't be tutored the move but subsequently got it as a Dream World move in Gen V.
As ever, there's a few oddities - some Pokemon you perhaps wouldn't expect got it in Gen IV and never again, like the Geodude line, Corsola, Celebi, Latias (but not Latios for some reason), . Of the Pokemon who only ever had it as a tutor move, Rotom, Umbreon, Girafarig, Hitmonlee, and the Duskull line all stand out as candidates I'd have presumed would regained it at some point, but none of them have yet. I'm actually fairly surprised Sucker Punch hasn't been a TM or TR in the newer games.
A sizeable amount of Pokemon already learned that move naturally in Gen IV - most of the Pokemon who first got access to it via tutoring, such as the Houndour line, the Bellsprout line, Mr Mime, Wormadam, Huntail, and Hitmontop to name a few, eventually regained it in later generations via level or breeding. Interestingly, Nidoran-F couldn't be tutored the move but subsequently got it as a Dream World move in Gen V.
As ever, there's a few oddities - some Pokemon you perhaps wouldn't expect got it in Gen IV and never again, like the Geodude line, Corsola, Celebi, Latias (but not Latios for some reason), . Of the Pokemon who only ever had it as a tutor move, Rotom, Umbreon, Girafarig, Hitmonlee, and the Duskull line all stand out as candidates I'd have presumed would regained it at some point, but none of them have yet. I'm actually fairly surprised Sucker Punch hasn't been a TM or TR in the newer games.
Speaking of oddities with "one off" Tutors, Hitmontop in this generation has finally regained access to Sucker Punch, which was previously a gen 5 exclusive move.
No idea why it just got added back to its moveset (and as a learnset move nontheless). I noticed it cause I was transferring a Hitmontop from Home to SV for pokedex and it shown up in the relearnarble moves and I was like "wait what since when".
Also fwiw Chinchou line regained access to the Curse TM with SV as well, I am curious if someone went checking which "new" Pokemon got access to it and which instead lost it.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Hitmontop learns a grab-bag of priority moves so Sucker Punch is very much a move that's fitting for its natural moveset. It's an odd-seeming exclusion in VI/VII.
Ah nice, I was only looking as far as Gen VII when I was choosing which moves to transfer it with.
There's a severe amount of Pokemon which didn't regain Curse in Gen IX because in GSC just about every Pokemon (aside from the usual exclusions like Magikarp, Metapod, Wobbuffet, and Unown) learns it; in ScVi the distribution is significantly more exclusive. From a quick look, some notable* Pokemon that don't appear to have access to it any more include: Charmander, Squirtle, Ekans, Clefairy, Jigglypuff, Oddish, Magnemite, Doduo, Tyrogue and all the Hitmons, the Elekid line, all the legendary birds, the Dratini line, Spinarak, Mareep, the Azurill line, Aipom, Gligar, all the legendary beasts, and Ho-Oh. A lot of the Pokemon who formerly got it as an egg move or by level but are compatible with the TM - such as Bulbasaur, Exeggcute, Zangoose, and the Hoenn Regi trio - lose it as an egg move.
*meaning ones who might miss it, I doubt Hoppip does
Because it learns Super Tera Blast as signature move.
It's due to its shape. Smart Strike is mainly executed by piercing the enemy with a pointy appendage, and Iron Boulder is pretty rounded.
(yes, it tecnically has horns, but they're curved toward itself and aren't really practical for piercing anything)
Iron Boulder's pointy horns are exactly as curved towards itself as Terrakion's, but even without that the horns merge together at a point to super stab you
Terrakion has other smaller horns that are probably more appropriate to the kind of piercing Smart Strike usually implies (stuff like Kartana's appendages f.e.).
Iron Boulder's horns like Terrakion's main ones seem to serve better for the purpose of Megahorn's (which both learn), aka a strong charged stab, rather than a "hit and run" one.
I think the only thing smart strike implies is "has a horn" and "hits you with it"
thats it
Iron Boulder has prominent, spiky horns. If Togetic can get smart strike with its goofy ring of """"horns"""" on its head or Ariados' dinky little horn or Heracross' not-even-remotely-pointy-or-designed-for-piercing horn, then these things
Should absolutely count. They're sharp, they're horns, they're pointy. The position also shouldn't matter when so man yof the other learners get it with horns yo uhave to controt your body for or that you, as a person, would have to actively touch.
Frankly, Smart Strike is a move that only takes up any space in my brain whatsoever because its learnset is so consistently weird. It got a bit more consistent after its debut in Gen VII, but it's always stuck out in my mind for its weirdness - only a handful of Gen VII 'mons learn it at all despite debuting in Gen VII, it was originally learned by Togetic but not Togekiss (despite neither 'mon having a real justification to learn it), and only two Pokemon have ever learned it naturally (and out of the two, only Iron Crown gains STAB - Rapidash does not).
Iron Boulder not getting it is, perhaps, the least of the move's weirdness.
Iron Boulder not getting it is, perhaps, the least of the move's weirdness.
So, I was going to do a comparison between the learnsets for Horn Attack and Smart Strike, since the two have similar flavor and I thought there might be some interesting things there, and...what is the deal with Horn Attack?
Gen 1, it was an uncommon early-game normal move, a way of rewarding mons that should be a bit more dangerous than the ones spamming Tackle or whatever.
Gen 2, it's added to Tauros, given to Heracross, and given to Piloswine and Donphan but not their preevos as a lvl-1 move in a game with no move reminder.
And then that's basically it. Bouffalant in 5, Tapu Bulu in 7, Paradox-Donphans and Iron Boulder in 9. Notably, Iron Boulder gets the move when Terrakion doesn't. And the new Tauros don't get it despite having more prominent horns than the base version. And it's a breed move on Karrablast, but no other mons.
The move's not powerful, it should be relatively common based on mon designs, and yet, it's basically vanished. Not completely, GF clearly remembers it exists enough to give it to a couple mons every couple generations, but ALMOST.
Gen 1, it was an uncommon early-game normal move, a way of rewarding mons that should be a bit more dangerous than the ones spamming Tackle or whatever.
Gen 2, it's added to Tauros, given to Heracross, and given to Piloswine and Donphan but not their preevos as a lvl-1 move in a game with no move reminder.
And then that's basically it. Bouffalant in 5, Tapu Bulu in 7, Paradox-Donphans and Iron Boulder in 9. Notably, Iron Boulder gets the move when Terrakion doesn't. And the new Tauros don't get it despite having more prominent horns than the base version. And it's a breed move on Karrablast, but no other mons.
The move's not powerful, it should be relatively common based on mon designs, and yet, it's basically vanished. Not completely, GF clearly remembers it exists enough to give it to a couple mons every couple generations, but ALMOST.
Base Tauros-P has tiny blunt horns compared to regular Tauros. Blaze and Aqua Breed Tauros have the exact same level-up pool as the Paldean form, only swapping out Assurance and Double-Edge for Flame Charge/Aqua Jet and Flare Blitz/Wave Crash. Egg moves are the same for all four.
So this made me go look up the actual Tauros sprites over the years, at which point a few things became clear.
One, his horns have grown since the GBC days. Not a huge amount, but they started as smaller than his skull nose-to-forehead and are now notably larger than it. I picture K-Tauros as having basically buffalo horns, which was close to how it started but is no longer accurate. (I'm also Texan and used to longhorn cattle, so my personal scale for "oh those are cute baby horns" may be slightly off)
Two, all Tauros deserve Horn Attack as their lvl 1 move and Headbutt at lvl 20. You can't tell me there's any real combat difference between these heads.
Four, if Nidoking gets Horn Attack then so should a bunch of the dex, which was my original point.
Look at how blunt base Paldean Tauros's horns are.So this made me go look up the actual Tauros sprites over the years, at which point a few things became clear.
View attachment 584902
One, his horns have grown since the GBC days. Not a huge amount, but they started as smaller than his skull nose-to-forehead and are now notably larger than it. I picture K-Tauros as having basically buffalo horns, which was close to how it started but is no longer accurate. (I'm also Texan and used to longhorn cattle, so my personal scale for "oh those are cute baby horns" may be slightly off)
Two, all Tauros deserve Horn Attack as their lvl 1 move and Headbutt at lvl 20. You can't tell me there's any real combat difference between these heads.
Three, they really need to try more with the shinies in modern generations. That's just disappointing.
Four, if Nidoking gets Horn Attack then so should a bunch of the dex, which was my original point.
Also, you think it's bad here? It's worse in game thanks to how the fur texture warps the colors.