Pokémon X & Y In-game Tier List Discussion

[Animorph]

Fair enough. Still not great, because one of those poison types is Toxicroak (which has scarred me forever with Rain Dish last gen).

Hawlucha had Swords Dance for a while. I never used it due to its frailty. Absol didn't really need it, honestly. Its Base Attack is already stupidly high.

 

[Ondore]

-

Noivern - D Tier
Availability: Terminus Cave, dark spots, rare. Has been observed coming at L44-L46.
Stats:
Noibat: 40/30/35/45/40/55 - Bad but um, somewhat speedy? You won't have it long.
Noivern: 85/70/80/97/80/123 - High Speed and relatively high SA, fair defensively.
Typing: Flying/Dragon gives a lot of resists (Fire, Water, Grass x4, Fighting) but has problems with Fairy and especially Ice.
Movepool: Level-up movepool consists largely of Flying moves, freshly caught ones have Super Fang which is a nice oddity, can use Fly upon catching. Would be well served to get to the Move Returner as soon as it evolves to pick up Dragon Pulse and Boomburst (which is the best horde-clearing move in the game). Can pick up the Psychic/Ghost/Dark trio of TMs (Psychic, Shadow Ball, Dark Pulse) but is probably best served by Flamethrower.
Major Battles:
Team Flare - n/a, comes after all of the events
Sycamore - Beats Venusaur, can tank the other two depending on if they're packing coverage moves
Shauna - Might be able to tank the starter, but keep it away from Goodra.
Ice gym - Figures, the one gym you have this thing... If it has Flamethrower, you might be able to do some damage but in general, beware.
Serena/Callum - Keep it away from Vaporeon, Froakie users. Neutral otherwise.

Elite 4
Malva - Resists the primary STAB, might have some trouble with Talonflame's Brave Bird.
Wikstrom - Shouldn't come within a mile of Klefki or Probopass, can wreck Scizor and potentially Aegislash if given Flamethrower.
Drasna - It's an all-or-nothing matchup, you'll either OHKO or get OHKOed back.
Siebold - Safe to assume everything has Ice (Beam/Fang), so don't bother. May be able to squeeze it in against Clauncher.
Diantha - Resisting Hawlucha's Fighting STAB is nice and can beat it+Gourgeist down with Flying STAB. Everything else is a bad matchup.

Additional Comments: I wanted to love Noivern, but the fact that it comes so late in the game and after it would have been useful... it was under ideal circumstances for me (SA+ nature, great Speed/SA and I had the cash to plow $200k worth of Carbos and Calcium into it) and I still can't go above D in good conscience.

 

[Raikaria]

On second thoughts; Malamar was on a team that it fit on really well; it's probobly B-Tier. I've edited the post to reflect that.

Anyway; I have been speaking to other people who have played the game for their opinions on what they have used as well; giving me a much wider pool that I can write up, since a lot of them used pokemon I did not; or have not yet used personally. I also have a few more pokemon that I can add now; as well as ones I still haven't written up:

Chespin/Quilladin/Chesnaught: - D C Tier
Availability: Starter
Stats:
[Estimated]
Chespin: 56/61/65/48/45/38
Quilladin: 61/78/95/56/58/57
Chesnaught: 88/107/122/74/75/64

Chesnaught is a very slow; physical tank; with passable special bulk.
Typing: Pure Grass is a pretty bad typing; and this is the typing that Chespin's first two forms have. Grass/Fighting is pretty redundant in terms of offense; as Fighting only hits Steel out of pokemon who resist grass; and it's pretty bad on the defense; while it removes the weakness to Bug; and adds a resistance to Dark; Fighting adds a Flying weakness [Now x4], Psychic weakness and Fairy weakness. Not really worth the trade-off; especially when you're already weak to Fire, Poison and Ice as well, giving Chesnaught 6 weaknesses; including one x4. That's not good when you're a tank.

Movepool:
Chesnaught's movepool gets quite a lot of coverage early; including Rollout in time for the first Gym; Bite; Pin Missile and eventually Mud Shot. However; while putting in all this coverage; Gamefreak apparently decided to forget to give a Grass/Fighting type a Fighting STAB until Lv 60; and this is Hammer Arm; which is less than ideal. Chesnaught gets a few other notable moves viva TM; such as Shadow Claw; Aerial Ace; Earthquake/Bulldoze; Dragon Claw; Rock Slide and Payback.

However; it is likely to be stuck with either Power-Up Punch or Rock Smash for Fighting STAB until Terminus Cave; and requireing to go into an optional area for a decent fighting STAB before Lv60 is far from ideal. Mercifully; it gets Grass STAB at an acceptable time; with Needle Arm at 26; and Seed Bomb at 35.

Spiky Shield is a pretty awful attack in general; and easily the worst signature move of the three.

Edit: I'm a moron and forgot TM Low Sweep in this run.

Major Battles:
Alexia - Can actually sweep the gym with Rollout, although some grinding may be required beforehand.
Grant - Poor; Amurua can OHKO with Take Down; while my Quilladin failed to even come close to a 2HKO with Vine Whip. Tyrunt easily overpowers it.
Korrina - Poor. Hawlucha rips Quilladin apart, Machoke overpowers it, and even Meinfoo is a slight danger if she burns Hypers on it. You have to beat Korrina's mons fast.
Ramos - If you for some reason have Pin Missile; you can beat Gogoat. Otherwise useless; outside of Return. STAB is resisted x4 by two mons and is an outright immunity to Gogoat.
Clemont - Average to Poor, two pokemon resist Grass. While it resists Electric, it's x4 weak to Flying; won't have a good Fighting STAB for Magneton [Although it may have Bulldoze] and Heliolisk can use normal-type attacks on it. Bulldoze can deal with Heliolist; but it will hardly be swift. Edit: Low Sweep makes Chesnaught good here.
Valerie - Poor; weak to Fairy
Olympia - Poor; weak to Psychic
Wulfric - Poor; weak to Ice; and due to it's slow speed and physical nature; Cryongal will get an attack off before it moves; and Avullg is unlikely to be OHKO'ed.

Team Flare - Awful against the Poison and Fire types; strong against the Darks; although Houndooms are scary; as is Lysandre's Honchkrow. Can beat Mega Gyarados however, provided something else sponges Intimidate.

Rival - Beats Absol

Malva - Useless. Completely useless.
Wikstrom - Can deal with Probopass; but loses to everything else, as they have subtypes strong against Fighting.
Dransa - Can only fight Druggidon
Seibold - Has to be weary of Ice Beams. Gyarados can set up on it, especially with Intimidate. Crushes Barbunkle.
Diantha - OHKO'ed by Hawlucha; can't hurt Goltergheist unless it's carrying Shadow Claw; and even then can lose; loses to Aurorus; loses to Tyrantum; loses to Goodra and completely annihilated by Mega Gardevoir. Chesnaught is completely useless here.

Additional Comments: Chesnaught is awful in-game. It suffers from horrible Gym matchups like Chikorita does; while it's a slow; physical attacker like Torterra; that lacks a good move at an acceptable time to make use of it's secondary typing [Unlike Torterra] In fact; I'd go as far to say that Chesnaught's gym matchups are actually WORSE then Chikorita's. At least Chikorita is technically strong against Chuck due to Poliwrath. Chesnaught is strong against no gyms; and only handles the first gym because it can set up Rollouts on the joke Surskit that doesn't even have a Bug move. Hammer Arm at 60 and having to go to an optional area for an even close to good Fighting STAB is just icing on the cake.

So is Venusaur existing, who arguably does physical just as well with a higher BP STAB, Mega Evolution and status moves; and the fact you're giving up Froakie and Delphox for this. Opportunity Cost.

Note Chesnaught being slow also hampers it in terms of efficiency, since the enemy often goes first, leading to more animations, more damage taken, and thus more healing needed.

Being able to Bulk Up is nice; but with 6 weaknesses; it's not getting much chance.

For the 6th generation [And 2 remakes] in a row; the Grass starter is the worst one to pick for in-game purposes. It's like the bad parts of Chikorita mixed with the downsides of Torterra, without the redeeming qualities of either [Utility/Status and actually having GOOD MOVES at a reasonable time]. I lothed using this thing, and the only thing that kept me from boxing it outright was to try and get some use from it.

If Chesnaught didn't have such a good TM movepool and coverage it would been lower. I'm talking putting it in E if it had Serperior's coverage. At least Serperior was fast.


====
I had Froakie typed up but then my browser crashed and I didn't save it; so I'll do that later.

However, I will give some nominations for the F-Tier that shouldn't need much elaboration:

Spinda - Tier F
This thing comes on Route 21. That's after WULFRIC. And it's USELESS.

Carbink - Tier F
Bad offensive movepool? Check. Rare? Check. Base 50 in both offense? Check.

Chingling - Tier F/E
Chimecho sucks. Chingling is worse. It's a time-dependant happiness evolution; yet comes far later than the other happiness evolution babies in the game; such as Budew, Rilou and Azurill. Oh; and you can pick up Mr.Mime or Dwebble here instead. Maybe E because Chimecho isn't COMPLETELY useless.

 

[sickweare]

Chespin/Quilladin/Chesnaught: - D Tier
Availability: Starter
Stats:
[Estimated]
Chespin: 56/61/65/48/45/38
Quilladin: 61/78/95/56/58/57
Chesnaught: 88/107/122/74/75/64

Chesnaught is a very slow; physical tank; with passable special bulk.
Typing: Pure Grass is a pretty bad typing; and this is the typing that Chespin's first two forms have. Grass/Fighting is pretty redundant in terms of offense; as Fighting only hits Steel out of pokemon who resist grass; and it's pretty bad on the defense; while it removes the weakness to Bug; and adds a resistance to Dark; Fighting adds a Flying weakness [Now x4], Psychic weakness and Fairy weakness. Not really worth the trade-off; especially when you're already weak to Fire, Poison and Ice as well, giving Chesnaught 6 weaknesses; including one x4. That's not good when you're a tank.

Movepool:
Chesnaught's movepool gets quite a lot of coverage early; including Rollout in time for the first Gym; Bite; Pin Missile and eventually Mud Shot. However; while putting in all this coverage; Gamefreak apparently decided to forget to give a Grass/Fighting type a Fighting STAB until Lv 60; and this is Hammer Arm; which is less than ideal. Chesnaught gets a few other notable moves viva TM; such as Shadow Claw; Aerial Ace; Earthquake/Bulldoze; Dragon Claw; Rock Slide and Payback.

However; it is likely to be stuck with either Power-Up Punch or Rock Smash for Fighting STAB until Terminus Cave; and requireing to go into an optional area for a decent fighting STAB before Lv60 is far from ideal. Mercifully; it gets Grass STAB at an acceptable time; with Needle Arm at 26; and Seed Bomb at 35.

Spiky Shield is a pretty awful attack in general; and easily the worst signature move of the three.

Major Battles:
Alexia - Can actually sweep the gym with Rollout, although some grinding may be required beforehand.
Grant - Poor; Amurua can OHKO with Take Down; while my Quilladin failed to even come close to a 2HKO with Vine Whip. Tyrunt easily overpowers it.
Korrina - Poor. Hawlucha rips Quilladin apart, Machoke overpowers it, and even Meinfoo is a slight danger if she burns Hypers on it. You have to beat Korrina's mons fast.
Ramos - If you for some reason have Pin Missile; you can beat Gogoat. Otherwise useless; outside of Return. STAB is resisted x4 by two mons and is an outright immunity to Gogoat.
Clemont - Average to Poor, two pokemon resist Grass. While it resists Electric, it's x4 weak to Flying; won't have a good Fighting STAB for Magneton [Although it may have Bulldoze] and Heliolisk can use normal-type attacks on it. Bulldoze can deal with Heliolist; but it will hardly be swift.
Valerie - Poor; weak to Fairy
Olympia - Poor; weak to Psychic
Wulfric - Poor; weak to Ice; and due to it's slow speed and physical nature; Cryongal will get an attack off before it moves; and Avullg is unlikely to be OHKO'ed.

Team Flare - Awful against the Poison and Fire types; strong against the Darks; although Houndooms are scary; as is Lysandre's Honchkrow. Can beat Mega Gyarados however, provided something else sponges Intimidate.

Rival - Beats Absol

Malva - Useless. Completely useless.
Wikstrom - Can deal with Probopass; but loses to everything else, as they have subtypes strong against Fighting.
Dransa - Can only fight Druggidon
Seibold - Has to be weary of Ice Beams. Gyarados can set up on it, especially with Intimidate. Crushes Barbunkle.
Diantha - OHKO'ed by Hawlucha; can't hurt Goltergheist unless it's carrying Shadow Claw; and even then can lose; loses to Aurorus; loses to Tyrantum; loses to Goodra and completely annihilated by Mega Gardevoir. Chesnaught is completely useless here.

Additional Comments: Chesnaught is awful in-game. It suffers from horrible Gym matchups like Chikorita does; while it's a slow; physical attacker like Torterra; that lacks a good move at an acceptable time to make use of it's secondary typing [Unlike Torterra] In fact; I'd go as far to say that Chesnaught's gym matchups are actually WORSE then Chikorita's. At least Chikorita is technically strong against Chuck due to Poliwrath. Chesnaught is strong against no gyms; and only handles the first gym because it can set up Rollouts on the joke Surskit that doesn't even have a Bug move. Hammer Arm at 60 and having to go to an optional area for an even close to good Fighting STAB is just icing on the cake.

With all-due respect I completely disagree. I do not think you're giving Chesnaught nearly enough credit. It is absolutely not awful in-game at all. It has the coverage it needs in most fights you will be in, and learns the TMs it needs to, to do well. You can get the TM for Low Sweep just before the third gym at the Tower of Mastery, and that is a perfectly acceptable STAB move.

As for the match-up issues, Chespin-Chesnaught does decent to well on most gyms barring the 6th and 7th gyms. Granted, Amaura is trouble but Quilladin can take on Tyrunt if none of your other Pokemon can. If evolved by the third gym (or even if not) it has the bulk to take on 2/3 of Korrina's Pokemon. Ramos isn't a very good match-up, I'll give you that, but it's decent at best with its fighting STAB. As for Clemont, it does very well. It takes on Magneton and Heliolisk with Bulldoze and Low Sweep, and only Emolga causes problems (but it's Emolga it isn't doing much), in my game I was able to solo Clemont with Chesnaught tbh. As I said, 6th and 7th gym are bust (however, you can take on Olypmia's Slowking with Seed Bomb or Wood Hammer if you have it). It has good matchups against Team Flare except for their bats really. It takes on Lysandre decently. Takes on Absol and Jolteon perfectly well. The 8th gym is a mixed bag, you can take on Abomasnow and (yes) Avalugg without too much worry. Cryogonal is very risky. For the Elite Four, Chesnaught is pretty good. Being able to take on Pyroar (mine lived flamethrower) and sometimes Chandelure (only if you have EQ which is out of the way, but still). Takes on Wilkstrom's Probopass like you said, but has to be careful of the other three. Can take on Siebold barring Gyarados. Finally it can take on Drasna's Dragalge with Bulldoze/EQ thanks to its very low defense, and t can take on Druddigon decently. Finally, Diantha is a mixed bag. It can one shot Auroros and Tyrantrum, but the other four are not a good idea outside of Gourgheist who can't really do anything back.

I have to say, yeah it wishes it learned better moves earlier, but Chesnaught is still a very solid choice coming very early with high attack and bulky defense, and he can literally Bulldoze through many trainers and important battles. Sure it needs help from other Pokemon at times, but many other important Pokemon do too. Its match-ups are much better than Chikorita's in HGSS as it has a useful secondary STAB and a nice TM movepool including Low Sweep and Bulldoze. Definitely not D-tier and more towards B-tier. It's the best grass type you get outside of Bulbasaur.

 

[Raikaria]

Admittedly I forgot about Low Sweep completely and skipped it that playthrough; it seems. I can be dumb sometimes.

That would probobly raise it to a C, and make it strong against Clemont instead of average/weak.

Mine had trouble at some points you claim yours succeeded. That said; I tend to run at the lower end of levels; as I do not use the EXP.Share. While I wasn't suicidal enough to use it against fire-types; or Seibold's Starmie [Which I am fairly confident it is outsped by and OHKO'ed by Psychic]. As I said; I really disliked using it in general.

I found mine not very useful against Team Flare. I used my Quilladin [Who was nowhere near evolution; Lv 30- If you're Lv 36 at Korrina you're using the EXP.Share; which is disregarded for this list] against Korrina and it struggled to beat Meinfoo; although she did burn two Hypers on it as it spammed Power-Up Punch.

I recall mine did have a pretty awful nature though. It was a couple of playthroughs ago though.

Roserade is arguably better than Chesnaught too; although I have not had a chance to use it yet. Exeggutour is pretty good too; and even Simisage isn't dreadful. I'd say it's the best physical grass type, but it's far from the best; or even 2nd; for the purposes for a quick playthrough.

 

[Animorph]

Flabebe -> Floette -> Florges - D-Tier

Availability: Route 4 & Route 7 (Only in flowers, has the colour of the flower it was in).

Stats: Florges is designed as a special tank, which deals special damage. It does this. Kind of. It really suffers with its low physical defenses, as it will often lose a lot of HP from that.

Typing: Fairy is a pretty good typing. Its strong against several common common physical attacking types. Most of its weakspots (poison and steel) are generally pretty easy to predict.

Movepool: Terrible. You're stuck with a 40BP STAB move for OVER 30 LEVELS. (As you don't get Moonblast until 46, and you get Dazzling Gleam only shortly before that). It gets access to several physical(?) grass type attacks until then, but its better off with Fairy Wind in most occasions, though. It gains Wish via levelup if that helps, though.

Major Battles:

Gym Battles
Grant - Risky. Can easily lose due to lack of defenses.
Korrina - Can do well, if you don't mind long fights.
Ramos - Poor to average. Due to lack of physical defenses, it can get owned pretty hard by Acropluff.
Clemont - Poor to average; not much it can do to Magnezone.
Valerie - Average.
Olympia - Can tank most of the hits pretty well.
Wulfric - Poor to average. Not able to do too much.

Elite Four & Champion

Malva - Bad. Everything on the team is strong against Florges attacks (Grass and Fairy)
Wikstrom - Bad. Everything is strong to Florges attacks.
Drasna - Sweeps everything bar Dragalge.
Siebold - Does OK with its grass type attacks for everything bar Gyarados.
Diantha - Good against Hawlucha, Tyrantrum, and Goodra. Even then, the first two can fire back with physical attacks.


Team Flare

Moderately useful against the dark types (save Houndoom) - bad against everything else.

Rival

Poor to average at best. There are better counters to everything bar Altaria (and even then, Sylveon is arguably better).

Additional Comments: I found that Florges was always the Pokemon I hated using, but I kept around for the handy Dragon immunity. Being stuck with a 40BP move and a recovery option that takes a turn to activate doesn't save it at all. On top of that, most (if not all) grass attacks it learns are physical based, so it an't make proper use of them. In reality, this things only saving grace is its ability to singlehandedly deal with Dragons.

 

[Mygavolt]

Stunfisk: D-Tier

Availability: Route 14 or Route 19 (preferably the former); Uncommon in the swamp, Common while surfing. In terms of Gym Leaders, just before Valerie, which is fairly late-game.

Stats: The only thing really going for it is its above average bulk, which allows it to take non-SE hits quite well. It's sluggish, its Special Attack is average, and its Attack is best not considered.

Typing: Electric/Ground means that it won't be getting paralyzed any time soon. It can freely switch into Electric-type attacks and offers semi-useful Rock and Flying resistance, but it's not quite worth being weak to Ice, Grass, Ground, and Water.

Movepool: The worst thing about Stunfisk's movepool is that since it doesn't learn Earth Power outside of breeding, you'll either be stuck with Mud Bomb for the entire game or resort to physical Ground STAB. Not to mention, it doesn't get Ice Beam. However, it does get Discharge from the get-go, which means you can fish for a nice paralysis every now and then. You can also run Sludge Bomb for Grass- and Fairy-types, but that's not until Route 19. Until then, either just run dual STABs or teach it a Water move (perhaps Surf) for filler.

Major Battles:
Gym Leaders
Valerie: Deals with Mawile handily, but that's about it.
Olympia: Can hit Sigilyph hard with Discharge, but that's about it. Discharge hits Slowking too, but the risk isn't worth the gain.
Wulfric: Don't even consider it.

Elite Four and Champion
Malva: STAB Mud Bomb hits most of her team hard and Talonflame can be dispatched with Static, but watch out for Chandelure.
Wikstrom: STAB Mud Bomb hits hard, but watch out for Probopass' Earth Power and Klefki's Torment.
Drasna: Stunfisk doesn't get Ice Beam and Dragalge has Surf. Not much to do here.
Siebold: Stunfisk can't take Water-type attacks very well, so you'd be lucky to get a Discharge off.
Dianthia: Good against Hawlucha, but that's about it.

Team Flare
Stunfisk handles Team Flare's Pokémon very well, especially Golbat and Manetric. Physical attackers can get shut down by Static (but be wary of Quick Feet Mightyena) and Houndoom doesn't take Mud Bomb too well. However, watch out for Lysandre's Gyarados.

Rival Battles
Serena/Calem: Unless you started out with Chespin, you're gonna have a bad time.
(the next three judgements are based on the Route 19 encounter)
Shauna: Delcatty isn't too bothersome, but Goodra is too bulky and the starter (bar Delphox) should be avoided if possible.
Tierno: It can take on Talonflame, but Roserade and Crawdaunt aren't worth taking on, especially not the former.
Trevor: Raichu is completely walled, but Aerodactyl's Earthquake and Florges' sky-high Special Defense should be avoided.

AZ
Takes on Torkoal and Sigilyph well, but stay away from Golurk.

Additional Comments: First of all, Static. If it doesn't have Static, it's not worth it. Second, its experience growth is Medium-Fast, which I guess is worth mentioning because it levels up faster than your starter.

All in all, the best strategy for Stunfisk is to use Static to its fullest potential, avoid SE hits if at all possible, and use its special movepool to its advantage (oh, and carry plenty of healing items). While its movepool is lacking in terms of coverage, its dual STABs can hit plenty of things in-game for super-effective damage and it can switch in to any Electric-type (how unfortunate that you can't get it before Clemont). If I could summarize this in one phrase: Stunfisk is a fun Pokémon to use, but don't expect too much from it.

 

[stardf29]

Okay, so here's a Pokemon that I used on my team...

Ampharos - C-rank

Availability: Mareep are found on Route 12, in hordes only and at a relatively low level. As such, some catchup training is necessary. You can get the Ampharosite at Azure Bay after getting Surf, and train up your Flaaffy on the Water-type Trainers there in the process.

Stats: Ampharos has solid 90/85/95 defenses and great base 115 Special Attack, but a very low base 55 Speed. Mega Ampharos has even better 90/105/110 defenses and base 165 Special Attack, but an even lower base 45 Speed. Expect to be outsped a lot, but you can tank hits pretty easily and hit back incredibly hard. Thunder Wave can help with the Speed problem.

Typing: Pure Electric for normal Ampharos, and gains Dragon after Mega Evolving. The former means you only have a Ground weakness to worry about, but only has a few resistances to Electric, Flying, and Steel. The latter has more resistances to Fire, Water, Electric, and Grass, but gains three weaknesses, to Ice, Dragon, and Fairy, which can make Mega Evolving during certain battles detrimental.

Movepool: Pretty barren to start with, as you have to make do with Thunder Shock and Thunder Wave for a while. You learn Power Gem at level 35 (which isn't that late in this game), which helps a bit, and you might reach level 40 to learn Discharge pretty soon, too. The two big things, though, are getting Thunderbolt after beating Clemont, and getting Dragon Pulse from the move relearner at Dendemille, though that is fairly late. Once you get those, though, you are set.

Major Battles:
Gym Leaders
Korrina: Might take down Hawlucha, but you're still in the early training stages, so probably useless here.
Ramos: Might stand a chance with Mega Evolution and Power Gem, but otherwise, no.
Clemont: Can at least take down Emolga easily so that your Ground-types can deal with the other two.
Valerie: Not that good, due to her Sylveon having really high Special Defense and Mega Evolving being a bad idea.
Olympia: Sigilyph and Slowking fall easily; is average against Meowstic, though Mega Evolving makes it easier.
Wulfric: Nope. Even without Mega Evolving, you have Abomasnow's Grass-type and Cryogonal's high Special Defense to deal with.

Elite Four and Champion
Malva: Mega Ampharos walls her team and can strike back hard. Talonflame in particular falls fast.
Siebold: Annihilates. Just watch out for Earthquake from Gyarados, though from my experience it usually Dragon Dances first, so if you attack straight away you'll safely knock it out. Also, Mega Ampharos can tank an unboosted Earthquake.
Drasna: Not really that good, especially with low Speed. Definitely not a good idea to Mega Evolve here.
Wikstrom: Average.
Diantha: Best not to Mega Evolve lest you get run over by a Mega Gardevoir. Can take down Hawlucha and do some good damage with Dragon Pulse to her Dragons even without Mega Evolving, at least.

Team Flare
Overall pretty average. Gyarados is tricky as it knows Earthquake; Mega Ampharos may be able to tank it, even from Mega Gyarados, and if it does, it can immediately blast it away with Thunderbolt.

Rival
*shrug* Might be able to defeat Altaria with Dragon Pulse if not Mega Evolved, then can Mega Evolve to take care of the Eeveelution and the starter.

Additional Comments: I rather like this guy and he was helpful during my run, but objectively speaking, he's not that good for an efficient run. I think the biggest problem with Ampharos is that his main appeal is being one of the few Pokemon that can Mega Evolve during the main game, but getting the Dragon-type after Mega Evolving is problematic in a number of major battles; you're better off with Lucario or your Kanto starter of choice if you want a Mega Evolution on your team. Ampharos's barren movepool, low Speed, and need for a lot of catch-up training just make things harder for the sheep. He can be useful if you want multiple Pokemon that can potentially Mega Evolve to react to different threats, but ultimately, I think there are better choices.

Any other thoughts on this guy?

 

[Raikaria]

Agreeing on Greninja's suggested B ranking. Not going to type that out yet.

Kangaskhan - A Tier
Availability: Glittering Cave; Very Rare
Stats:
105/95/80/40/80/90

Kangaskhan is a physical attacking mixed tank; that is also surprisingly fast. It's almost like it min-maxed it's statline.

Typing: Pure Normal is unremarkable. Being immune to Ghost; and therefor one of only two types on resist it is nice; but there is no major battle against Ghost-types. A fighting weakness; on the other hand; is somewhat painful.

Movepool:
As a pure Normal-type; Kangaskhan has movepool out of it's rear end. By level-up it gets some Dark-type attacks to hit Ghosts and Steels; and it even learns Outrage at Lv 46. Kangaskhan can have almost perfect coverage in just two attacks; Bite/Crunch and Return. However; Kangaskhan also has a massive TM pool; and while special attacks can effectivly be ignored; it still has access to Bulldoze/Earthquakeke/Dig; Brick Break/Low Sweep/Power-Up Punch/Rock Smash; Rock Tomb/Rock Slide and Shadow Claw; which can easily be rotated around as coverage requires. In addittion; Kangaskhan has access to moves such as Rest and Sleep Talk; to continue making use of it's 2-move coverage with it's bulk; an option in longer boss fights; and can even set-up with a movepool of Return/Sleep Talk/Rest/Power-Up-Punch in longer fights; like Lyasandre; the Rival's later fights; and Diantha. [Just remember to take Resttalk off it's moveset after that fight and go back to coverage!]

Return is a complete godsend for this pokemon; as having Base 95 Attack and a STAB up to 102BP so early in the game destroys everything that is not Steel; Rock or Ghost.

Major Battles:
Grant - Can OHKO Amaura with Rock Smash; and 2HKO Tyrunt.
Korrina - Despite being weak to fighting; can defeat Meinfoo and Machoke through the sheer power of Return; although Hawlucha will Flying Press it before it can act.
Ramos - Just Returnspams; although has to be weary of status from Jumpluff.
Clemont - Bulldoze access; or can use Low Sweep. Emolga gets Return'ed. Pick his poison here.
Valerie - Intimidate makes Mawile annoying; but you can just muscle through the remainder of her team with Returns on their lower physical defense.
Olympia - Crunch [Being Lv 49 for Sucker Punch is unlikly]
Wulfric - Brick Break. If you want to be particually evil you can use Power-Up-Punch on Abomasnow and then spam Brick Break.

Team Flare - Can basically solo the entire team with it's coverage and raw power of Return.

Rival - Meowstic falls to Bite/Crunch; Absol falls to a light breeze; the starter can be handled; unless it is Chesnaught. Vaporeon is annoying; but the other Eevees can be handled; and Altaria is just out-muscled.

Malva - Earthquake/Rock Slide are the coverage moves of choice here.
Wikstrom - Switch to Brick Break/Earthquake; although Scizor will still be annoying
Dransa - Rock Slide deals massive damage to Noivern and Altaria. Return can deal high damage to the others. Average.
Seibold - Can Crunch Starmie or Rock Slide Gyarados; or EQ/Brick Break Barbuncle. Unlikly to be able to sweep the whole team; however.
Diantha - Stays away from Hawlucha. Other matchups depend on coverage. Amaura is OHKO'ed by Fighting and Ground takes a massive toll while also dealing with Tyrantum. Crunch deals with Goltergheist; and Shadow Claw or even Return deals a number on M.Gardevoir. Outrage can handle Goodra, as it is SE on it's somewhat low physical side.

Additional Comments:
Fast; bulky; hits hard; is a swiss-army knife in terms of coverage; and can run whatever two moves it feels like in the last two slots because Crunch/Return is nearly perfect coverage after Steel's nerf [You miss out on Sableye, if you don't have Scrappy; and some pokemon such as Carbink]. Kangaskhan can flex to fit whatever your team needs; and will be a complete powerhouse. You don't even need Scrappy, due to a lack of Ghost-type fights in the game; and the fact you have Bite/Crunch anyway. Not many pokemon can freely switch between two TM slots between major fights without hampering their general usefulness.

The only thing stopping me from putting Kangaskhan in S is how rare it is; combined with the mechanics of Glittering Cave encounters. It look mean hour to find one. At which point I found a 2nd immediately afterwards; however; it is well worth looking for; since it proceeded to demolish everything afterwards. Kangaskhan would be a shoe-in for S if Mega Kangaskhan was available before the postgame. Kangskhan is probobly rivaling Snorlax for the best Normal-type in the game; making up in availability with not going last constantly and a better movepool.

Gulpin/Swalot - D Tier
Availability: Route 5; Hordes and Normal encounters.
Stats:
Gulpin: 70/43/53/43/53/40
Swalot: 100/73/83/73/83/55

Swalot is a slow; mixed tank

Typing: Pure Poison is pretty good for defense; but awful for offense.

Movepool:
Some Poison types have good movepools; like Nidoking, or even Wheezing. Swalot... does not. It's level-up movepool is literally poison and normal; and sub-par at that; and while it's TM pool may have some eyebrow raising moves [Infestation?]; aside from Earthquake none of them are actually good. Besides Venoshock.

Speaking of Venoshock; expect to be stuck using Poison Gas/Toxic -> Venoshock for a long time.

Major Battles:
Grant - Useless; cannot really hurt either pokemon.
Korrina - Resistance to Fighting really comes through here; and my Gulpin was newly evolved into Swalot, and as such; had just learnt Toxic; and was able to defeat Hawlucha and Machoke with Toxic-Venoshock.
Ramos - Actually can sweep here; Weepinbel cannot do anything back; and the others are hit SE.
Clemont - Should be able to defeat Emolga or Heliolisk; although both is unlikly.
Valerie - Cannot hurt Mawile; Mr.Mime is risky, and Sylveon is defeated easily.
Olympia - Useless
Wulfric - Beats Abomasnow; and can hold it's own against Avullg.

Team Flare - Not awful; especially factoring Return on their own Poisons; but not good.

Rival - Unless they have Chesnaught; Swalot is pretty awful here

Malva - Gets out-muscled.
Wikstrom - Useless unless you have Earthquake. Then you beat Probopass and Klefki, or even Ageislash if you can survive a hit.
Dransa - Earthquake actually lets Swalot take on Draglage.
Seibold - Poor; out-muscled.
Diantha - Beats Hawlucha and Goltergheist. Technically SE on Mega Gardevoir; but likely OHKO'ed before it can move.

Additional Comments:
I was [un]lucky enough to find a Shiny Gulpin in a horde while going through Route 5; so decided to stick one on my team. I fully expected Swalot to be useless; and while it certainly wasn't good it certainly was far from being as bad as I expected. Venoshock went a long way to this; although being Swalot's best move until Lv 52 or the Sludge Bomb TM [My Swalot had +Sp.Atk; making Tutor Gunk Shot bad] is less than ideal. I was actually bordering on nominateing this guy for C; but then I recalled my Venoshocks were stronger than most Swalots would be.

Swalot has the bulk and the... bad movepool... enough to actually make use of Stockpile; especially as it fights in attrition; and by the time you get Earthquake; Sludge Bomb is literally around the corner so you won't be using Toxic+Venoshock much more. Free Black Sludge just before Ramos helps too.

 

[sickweare]

Wait, what's up with Exp. Share? I know it's easy to get through the game with it but isn't that the point of doing an "efficient run"? I'm not trying to like start any arguments I'm generally curious about this.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Wait, what's up with Exp. Share? I know it's easy to get through the game with it but isn't that the point of doing an "efficient run"? I'm not trying to like start any arguments I'm generally curious about this.

As I have said many times over, Exp. Share causes bias that makes people think Pokémon perform better than they really can. You might as well rate everything A or S Tier if it were to be allowed, since if you are 10 levels above your opponent, of course you are going to wipe the floor with them even if you have a disadvantage. I can attest to this myself.

 

[Lucchini]

Exp Share usage is neither a glitch nor even an exploit however. An artificial "challenge" setting is fine but should the whole tier list assume that we all adapt artificial difficulty?

One could argue that the trainer battles in GSC are too easy because you're 10 levels above everyone who isn't a gym leader or an elite - doesn't mean we have to skip half the trainers or train a team of 12 Pokemon just so that we share the opposition's levels.

I recall the BW2 tier list rejecting all attempts to evaluate by Challenge Mode levels/movesets because the tier list is "made for the average player". Should the average player adapt challenge settings or is it more likely that they will use whatever features the game grants them, no matter how advantageous?

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

The concept isn't that Exp. Share lessens part of the challenge of the game, its that it creates a perception that a Pokemon is better than it actually is. It makes it difficult to be objective when ranking Pokemon when your choice is destroying the game by being 15 levels above everyone else. It may have done incredibly well despite being difficult to obtain, requiring babying early on and having a limited movepool, but the level difference made up for that.

The point is that you have to consider how a Pokemon would fare relative to the other Pokemon. If they were placed in a vacuum environment and set for arguments sake to the opponent's levels which would do better throughout the game. That's the ultimate goal of these tier lists anyway.

 

[CJorex]

The concept isn't that Exp. Share lessens part of the challenge of the game, its that it creates a perception that a Pokemon is better than it actually is. It makes it difficult to be objective when ranking Pokemon when your choice is destroying the game by being 15 levels above everyone else. It may have done incredibly well despite being difficult to obtain, requiring babying early on and having a limited movepool, but the level difference made up for that.

The point is that you have to consider how a Pokemon would fare relative to the other Pokemon. If they were placed in a vacuum environment and set for arguments sake to the opponent's levels which would do better throughout the game. That's the ultimate goal of these tier lists anyway.

Excactly how I feel- the exp share makes any pokemon usable, but the pokemon may still be outclassed, and we want to base our tier lists on the latter.

 

[Its_A_Random]

There is nothing stopping you from using Exp. Share, then extrapolating to see how well it would perform at a lower level though. If something is tiered highly on this list, it means it performs even better with an Exp. Share anyway, so for the sake of objectivity, we try to minimise the influence of Exp. Share. Otherwise, basically what Texas said.

That said, I guess I better update the tiers with some new entries.

Bulbasaur: N/A -> S-Tier
Charmander [X]: N/A -> A-Tier
Charmander [Y]: N/A -> A-Tier
Chespin: N/A -> C-Tier
Fennekin: N/A -> A-Tier
Froakie: N/A -> B-Tier
Honedge: N/A -> S-Tier
Spinda: N/A -> F-Tier

Like before, all tierings are provisional until this tier list is sent to C&C. If you disagree with the tiering of something in some tier, do not be afraid to speak up & say why something should be lower or higher; it will be considered. It also means you are still welcome to nominate something tiered for another tier or validate its tiering.

I guess my reasonings are mostly based on what others have said, but I can expand if necessary. Spinda is another one of those jokemons, only available after the eighth badge & terrible, so an F-Tiering is an easy choice.

Other than that, keep up the good work folks.

 

[Raikaria]

Basically; with the EXP Share; you could probobly crush everything even with a Luvdisc or Smergle because you're stupidly overleveled. It's hardly fair to gauge how useful a pokemon is when you're gaining at least 2.5x the normal amount of EXP for your team. Especially since the level curve clearly doesn't make you use the EXP.Share; you can keep up without touching it; with minimal grinding.

===

Zubat/Golbat/Crobat - A Tier
Availability: Connecting Cave; appropriately named Zubat Roost. It's actually deceptively uncommon however outside Hordes; although nowhere near as rare as Axew.

Stats:
Zubat: 40/45/35/30/40/55
Golbat: 75/80/70/65/75/90
Crobat: 85/90/80/70/80/130

The Zubat line is one of the fastest lines in the game; and is a good physical attacker. Golbat and Crobat are also deceptively bulky.

Typing: Poison/Flying is a very useful type combination; although it will have great trouble harming Steel and Rock-types.

Movepool:
Zubat's movepool is not the widest; but it has several tools. Firstly; unless caught in a Horde; Zubat will come with Bite; lessening the infamous 'Zubat Grind' where it is next to useless. It learns Wing Attack at Lv 15; and Confuse Ray at 19; allowing Zubat to ConfuFlinch even bad matchups. Acrobatics is leanrt at Lv 33; just in time for Ramos [Or with a little grinding against the local Ground-types. I've been between Lv 35 and Lv 31 hitting Ramos; based on prior need for grinding and team EXP rates] TM's and HM's include X-Scizzor; U-Turn; Return; Roost; and some special options; such as Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb; that con provide additional coverage; even coming off it's weaker Sp.Atk. Roost is also available.

Major Battles:
Grant - Poor. Rock weakness harms it; although it can Confu-Flinch to be useful
Korrina - Sweeps the gym with a x4 Fighting Resistance.
Ramos - Sweeps
Clemont - Can do littlel as Thunderbolt is highly dangerous.
Valerie - Resists Fairy; and can use Acrobatics to main Mr.Mime and Slyveon. Unlikely to have Poison Fang at this point.
Olympia - Poor; although it can deliver some solid hits; it will not last long.
Wulfric - Beats Abomasnow.

Team Flare - Can overpower most of their pokemon with Acrobatics.

Rival - Can outspeed and defeat most of their team with Acrobatics.

Malva - One of the few pokemon in the game who can outspeed Talonflame. Useless against Torkoal; and can deal heavy damage to the others.
Wikstrom - Useless
Dransa - One of the few to outspeed Noivern, but it'll be a damage race against her whole team.
Seibold - Can't hurt Barbuncle. Can hold it's own against the rest of his team; but is risky.
Diantha - Beats Hawlucha and Goltergheist. Can hold it's own against Goodra and get a solid hit on M.Gardevoir. Useless against the Fossils.

Additional Comments:
Crobat can be obtained as soon as Lv 23 from Golbat; giving you an immensely powerful pokemon for that point of the game. Crobat will OHKO anything weak to Flying after it learns Acrobatics; and will deal heavy damage to anything else with the same move; provided it is not a resistance. Crobat's geratest assest is it's raw speed; alowing it to finish off weaker foes; or OHKO before they can even move. Confuse Ray is good utility as well; especially as the AI will almost never switch out of confusion. It's matchups may not be excellent in Gyms; but it's ability to clean up low HP pokemon even in fights such as Olympia and Wulfric; combined with it's ability to sweep aside standard trainers with Acrobatics spam makes Crobat a very solid in-game pokemon.

 

[sickweare]

The concept isn't that Exp. Share lessens part of the challenge of the game, its that it creates a perception that a Pokemon is better than it actually is. It makes it difficult to be objective when ranking Pokemon when your choice is destroying the game by being 15 levels above everyone else. It may have done incredibly well despite being difficult to obtain, requiring babying early on and having a limited movepool, but the level difference made up for that.

The point is that you have to consider how a Pokemon would fare relative to the other Pokemon. If they were placed in a vacuum environment and set for arguments sake to the opponent's levels which would do better throughout the game. That's the ultimate goal of these tier lists anyway.

Okay, this makes a lot of sense. Sorry I just got a little confused by the wording I guess.

Also, I don't know if anyone else has used Nidoking in a playthrough, but I did nominate it for B-tier because its still a very solid Pokemon with a wide movepool and upgraded Attack this generation! If you have used Nidoking, any input is appreciated, and my nomination is on the last page.

I'd also argue Chesnaught deserves better than C-tier, and there are other posts in this thread I think we should maybe possibly look at that ranked it at B-tier. Idk this is just my opinion but Chesnaught performed very well for me and I know that is subjective, but I truly don't see why Chesnaught is considered the worst of the three.

 

[Goutland]

Sooo about exp share again... I used it for the entire game, but was never overleveled at any point. I skipped as many trainers as I could and entered the E4 with my team around 58 or so. Does that make my opinion moot?

Anyway, last nomination for me since everything I used besides this has been posted already:

Clauncher - D/E Rank

Availability: X only, Good Rod (found in Coumarine City) required. You have to backtrack to Route 8, Ambrette Town, or Cyllage City to catch it, and on top of that it'll be roughly 10 levels under the current trainer level at that point of the game (~25 as opposed to ~35).

Stats: Clauncher has godawful stats until it evolves at 37. Not a single stat above 63, if that says much. It's essentially useless until it evolves, given that most trainers have fully evolved pokemon by the time Clauncher is available. Even after it evolves it kind of sucks. It's strong at 120 spA, but it's slow as balls and has only average bulk, meaning that if you want to use it you'll really have to be spamming those potions to keep it alive.

Typing: Mono water. Not much to say here. Not too many weaknesses, not too many resistances. Only one real STAB, but with Mega Launcher you get pseudo STAB on a bunch of moves.

Movepool: This is really the only area which Clauncher/Clawitzer shines. Powerful STAB in surf as soon as you get it, and once evolved you can immediately relearn Dark Pulse, Aura Sphere, and Dragon Pulse which all get pseudo STAB through Mega Launcher.

Major Battles: Not the 4th gym (grass) for starters. OR the 5th (electric). It's really not useful for the 6th gym (fairy) either because of the abundance of specially bulky mons. At the 7th gym (psychic) you can do some work with dark pulse, but you'll still have to heal often due to Clawitzer not having any useful resistances here. And at the 8th gym (ice) you'll be getting nailed by Freeze Dry enough to where you won't want to be using Clawitzer.

So yeah, Clawitzer sucks against pretty much every gym leader after you get it. Having a strong water STAB lets it do well against Team Flare grunts at least. Clawitzer picks up a little in the elite 4, being able to hit everything on Malva, Wikstrom, and Drasna's team super effectively except Scizor, who won't enjoy taking a surf anyway.

Additional Comments: I really just chose to use it because it looked cool. Turned out to be pretty bad in game though. For something so out of the way, it requires too much extra work leveling it up to par with the rest of your team and also getting heart scales to realize its full potential. It's really not worth the effort unless you really like Clauncher. Decent surf/waterfall slave though, even though you get a free one in Lapras before Clauncher is even available.

 

[stage7_4]

I'll add some of my team that haven't had full write-ups yet.

Medicham: - B Tier
Availability: Early, Connecting Cave
Stats:
Meditite: 30/40/55/40/55/60
Medicham: 60/60/75/60/75/80

But don't let those stats fool you, Pure Power is not to be trifled with. But overall Medicham is a little on the frail side, with only okay speed. But the POWER.

Typing: Fighting/Psychic is an okay combo, leaving weaknesses to flying, ghost, and fairy.

Movepool: Wide. Hi Jump Kick as your great STAB, and now it gets Zen Headbutt as a move tutor (in addition to the elemental punches)! Unfortunately, the move re-learner is later game, but until then Medicham does okay with fighting and Return. You get Rock Smash almost at the same time as Meditite which helps his poor early-game movepool until Force Palm at 29.

Major Battles:
Grant - Sweeps, even with Rock Smash.
Korrina - Risky. Weak special-based psychic moves and her Hawlucha are hard to overcome, but he'll resist the rest of her team.
Ramos - Poor. His half flying and poison types will resist your fighting, but it's possible to muscle through with Return.
Clemont - Solid. Emolga isn't that threatening, but Heliolisk and Magneton are a piece of cake (and you should be evolved by now).
Valerie - Poor. Medicham can handle Mawile, but that's it.
Olympia - Average. You have the re-learner now, so Thunder or Ice punch with Return can handle her team. But that's a large heart scale investment (assuming you also pick up Zen Headbutt).
Wulfric - Sweeps. Hi Jump Kick them all, heal when you miss (or keep Force Palm around).

Team Flare - Tons of dark types, tons of fun! Their only threatening pokemon (Zubat and Gulpin line) only get threatening after Zen Headbutt. Lysandre's only threat is Honchkrow (his Gyarados ironically gets less threatening due to the mega evolution).

Rival - Above Average. None of her pokemon or starters really threaten Medicham, and she always has her Absol.

Malva - Risky. You'll cream the first half, but Chandelure and Talonflame will get revenge.
Wikstrom - Above average. Would be sweep except for Aegislash. Klefki isn't really a threat.
Dransa - Average, just don't mess with Noivern.
Seibold - Above average. Sweeps if you have Thunderpunch for Gyarados.
Diantha - Very good, except for Gardevoir. In fact, the whole league could be summed up as "great except their last 'mon"

Additional Comments: Later evolution, okay speed, and over dependence on the move re-learner keep Medicham from being A rank material, but a solid B rank simply because of Pure Power.

 

[HedgeKnight]

All Right, Lapras.
Lapras-A Tier (Possibly S tier)
Availability: Pretty Early, as soon as you beat Korrina and get the mega ring. Level 30 gift.
130/85/80/85/95/60

Movepool: Solid, access to 7 relevant special attacks, with boltbeam coverage available before level 40. You get a few decent physical attacks, but they aren't really worth it for the most part. It also has a passable support movepool.

Major Battles:
Ramos: Not useless because it already has STAB Ice beam, and its bulk lets it take a few super effective hits.
Clemont: Useless.
Valerie: A roleplayer.
Olympia: Pretty useful, since you get super effective thunderbolts on her first two pokemon.
Wulfric: Surprisingly useful, since after abomasnow is out of the picture he'll have a hard time knocking lapras out, while you attack unresisted.
Malva: You can sweep by surfing them all.
Wikstrom: Okay, you'll have better options though.
Drasna: Sweeps easily with STAB ice beams. Will 2hko the first 2, and 0hko altaria. You take out noivern in one hit, but he outspeeds you and can potentially knock you out first if you've already taken some damage.
Siebold: Sweeps everything but barbaracle.
Diantha: Has supereffective moves on all but gardevoir, but it's risky because several of her pokemon have super effective moves on lapras.

Additional Comments: If you haven't surfed on it, I encourage you to do so. It looks awesome, and that's worth something in itself. The reason I think it's worthy of A-tier is because you have STAB surf and ice beam by level 32. (2 levels after you get it.) It doesn't take any effort to get, and comes already at what your party level should be. You get thunderbolt and toxic only about 5 levels after ice beam, in the upper thirties. Lapras is one of the few pokemon that can brag of getting an optimized moveset before level 40.

Edit: Also backing up that froakie is B-tier. weak moves in the early game, and very frail, but able to basically sweep everything in the late game.

 

[WL-0]

Gardevoir: A tier
Availability: Very Early as Ralts, Route 4. Somewhat rare.
Movepool: Crap at the beginning, awesome on the later parts of the game. You're stuck with Magical Leaf and Confusion (and the somewhat useful Teleport) as Ralts/Kirlia, then in the midway you gain gems like Psychic, Dazzling Gleam/Moonblast (a lot better), Thunderbolt, Calm Mind and Shadow Ball. You can even relearn Stored Power, but in-game is slow to set up and inferior to Psychic.
Typing: Very good (Psychic/Fairy), you'll be surprised to find Gardevoir effective against dark types. He is only weak to Steel, Poison and Bug, and out of these Poison is the most common, while the other two are rare.
Stats: nice speed and specials but very low defense, she takes painful hits from anything physical.
Major Battles: Grant - risky because of low defense and crappy movepool.
Korrina: roflstomp here.
Ramos: don't remember having problems against him.
Clemont: Magneton is a bitch but that's everything.
Valerie: somewhat painful due to Mawile (who is neutral only to Tbolt) and Mr. Mime (if you don't carry Shadow Ball).
Olympia: 2/3 of her them are stomped by Tbolt, Meowstik is just not a problem.
Wulfric: even match, nothing particular to say.
Rival: roflstomp if you have Dazzling Gleam or Moonblast, Meowstik ALWAYS tanks whatever you throw to him but doesn't backfire in any particular way.
Malva: even match, easier if you spam Calm Mind.
Wikstrom: stay even from him.
Drasna: LOL.
Siebolt: Tbolt barrage like Olympia and that's it.
Diantha: pretty much good against anything but watch out from physical Attacks.
Additional comments: A tier because Ralts is absolute shit EVEN WITH SUPERTRAINING AND GOOD NATURE, Kirlia is just annoying but as Gardevoir and with all the TMs is just another story. Not S tier because of the painful and annoying beginning.

Hawlucha: A tier
Availability: Early-to-mid game, Route 10.
Movepool: Lovely. He doesn't start with anything useful but on the way he learns Aerial Ace, Bounce, High Jump Kick, Hone Claws (damn useful on this thing) and you can even teach him Rock Tomb (and later Rock Slide) for coverage.
Typing: frail but still very good offensively. STAY AWAY from fairies.
Stats: attack and speed are awesome, the rest is meh. You need to play focused on what you're doing in order to not let him die.
Major battles: Korrina - I remember having Bounce or something like that, major roftstomp.
Ramos - easy as before.
Clemont: watch out from electric Attacks, other than that you can still spam fight moves if you have ones. Magneton in my memories has Sturdy, so he will ALWAYS OHKO you.
Valerie - Sadly Hawlucha is just useless there. Even bouncing isn't very useful.
Olympia - Very bad match up as before. You can Bounce here and there against regular trainers, though.
Wulfric - Even match I would say, you can outspeed him but you need to do everything correctly. One missed High Jump Kick: you will die.
Rival - piece of cake, just watch out from Meowstik.
Malva - pretty alright if you go Hone Claws then Rock Slide.
Wikstrom - meh, Klefki can do some damage and you can set up Hone Claws for Scizor and Probobass (it has Sturdy and some annoying moves, though), but Aegislash TOTALLY TANKS Hawlucha.
Drasna - Haven't used Hawlucha here.
Siebold - Hawlucha fares good against Clawitzer and Barbarecles but has a lot of problems against Starmie and some problems against Gyarados because of Intimidate.
Diantha - You can destroy everything apart of MeGardevoir, DON'T SET UP on enemy Hawlucha!

Addition comments: he is damn funny to use (my favorite one in Y run) and brings a diverse and risky gameplay (in comparison to other mons), he somewhat lags in the end but will never cease to inflict important damages to the enemies.

I also had used Greninja, Venusaur, Mamoswine (although a breeded and massively trained one with Icicle Drop) and Aegislash, although I almost didn't use Venusaur because I was annoyed I couldn't give him Lucky Egg or Amulet Coin; also I used very little Greninja because he was Always overleveled.

 

[Raikaria]

A pokemon isn't A if it's useless for a large portion of the game and just sucks EXP. Gardevoir is B at best. It only really becomes great after the 6th badge; which is 5 badges later than you actually get it. Compare with Froakie; who is B for being good lategame with it's movepool and speed; but is pretty bad early and midgame; saved only by Surf.

I'd also argue Chesnaught deserves better than C-tier, and there are other posts in this thread I think we should maybe possibly look at that ranked it at B-tier. Idk this is just my opinion but Chesnaught performed very well for me and I know that is subjective, but I truly don't see why Chesnaught is considered the worst of the three.

Low speed. The other two can outspeed and OHKO everything; while Chesnaught goes second against nearly everything; meaning either more healing or more trips to the pokemon center. Combined with it's many weaknesses and generally poor gym matchups and it's just not as good as Delphox or even Greninja. It's not even that strong. It's power is about the same physically as Greninja's is specially; but Greninja's STAB of choice is 15 BP higher; while Delphox hits even harder with it's high Sp.Atk; uses it's second STAB far better than both Greninja and Chesnaught can; and even has utility in Screens and Will-O-Wisp. It can even use Psyshock to bypass special bulk.

 

[Gokuzbu]

Gardevoir is at least a B, it has awesome typing and destroys everything once it gets its movepool sorted out

 

[Lasagne]

ok so I've thought about it a bit, and I'm fine with Diggersby in c as opposed to b as I said in my original post. It has quite a few flaws that prevent it from being b tier worthy, notably the lack of powerful moves that aren't return/surf until reasonably late game.

 

[Kairyu24]

My first post here, but I have been reading this whole topic and the other ingame tiering ones.(Wanted to sign up with the new XY games anyway).

Seeing the discussion about the Ralts tiering, I'm having a few thoughts about the exp.all in specific situations. I have beaten the game and agree that it makes most pokemon behave like S tier if you aren't careful, and I agree the vast majority should be judged without it.

However, certain pokemon like Ralts are intentionally designed to be dead weight until you baby them enough to let them evolve. In past games, using these pokemon equals some time loss, no matter what. Pokemon XY gives a new method of training a pokemon that does not negatively impact your pacing. For example, Ralts can be caught such a early point in the game it won't infringe on efficiency(still filling out team slots) with being benched until it evolves. With it's movepool issues and Kilia not being much better it's still a meager payoff however, but it was mostly the principle that I wanted to bring up. A more classic example might be catching a magikarp at perfume palace, which will evolve soon after with no real assistance or loss of time involved.

It's still a negative if a pokemon needs to rely on such a method, but in my opinion it might deserves a mention when tiering the extreme intentional examples like those two, although with the amount of options the game offers it still needs to be judged harshly if it's worth it.