-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokemon Legends - Arceus - 28th Jan 2022 *Official Content Only*
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
I'd guess its one of the ruin halls
I wouldn't get my hopes up for that. Remember that GAMEFREAK didn't patch XY to include the new Mega Evolutions and Primal Reversions and didn't patch SM to include Poipole and co. despite updating these games. They probably aren't going to update a game they feel they're finished with to include these Pokémon, especially since they're already likely working on Gen IX.
I think what's important to note is that in bith those cases, official tournaments were respectively being held in OrAs and UsUm; and they planned to release their next gen by the end of the next year. Here, however, the main game for official battles is still SwSh, and they have announced the next season for early february, and we still likely have 2 years to wait til the next generation; which makes me think updating the roster to mix up the seasons is possible.
While it is by no means a sure thing, the 3DS era didn't even get DLC to begin with and the latest versions of those games were the prevailing standard for the generation.
Here SWSH is, despite 2 new games, still the one they're pushing as the "main" game. They can of course keep ignoring the new ones, perhaps we even get gen 9 this year so it'd be seen as double worthless, but I think it's at least a strong possibility. Especially when it'd give opportunity to use the new Pokemon (& the various gens 1-4 pokemon) forms in a "real" battle setting, since trainer battles seem downplayed in this game & there's no online battles
We'll see in like february whenever the home update winds up coming, so not a long time regardless of what happens
This is probably more because on a technical level, patching new content into the 3DS games would not be feasible in terms of size/inefficiency of the patching system according to SciresM (7 years ago). The only updates they got were bugfixes and even then they took quite a bit of blocks, that would all include the previous updates as well. I don't really know if they will continue to patch mons back in but they've taken advantage of the ability on Switch for sure with Zarude and DLC. I do acknowledge that selling the new thing was probably a factor there too but I think there's another side to the story than just gamefreak chose to not patch ORAS content into XY.
Last edited:
That really just depends on if they want to keep the competitive VGC players interested or not.
The best way to keep competitive interesting is to keep shaking it up.
Actual GS cup is the current format (so pretty much entire pokedex available legal minus mythicals, with 2 restricted allowed per team), unless gen 9 is planned to release by the end of 2022 (not unlikely), and even if it is, having a bunch of extra pokemon available by, say, June, in the games would prevent the VGC meta from becoming stale without requiring any new game.
(Also, if it was any other company, it'd be pretty obvious that giving the chance to the players to try their shiny new toys TM in Sword and Shield would be an extra incentive to actually buy the new games or a home subscription, but GameFreaks doesn't really do logic sometimes)
While I certainly have my fingers crossed for BDSP and PLA compatibility with HOME coming along with a patch to add those mons and to SwSh, I can see it not happening if gen 9 is planned for end of year.
Even if such a patch does does happen, I don't expect the mons not in BDSP or PLA to necessarily be patched in. Even though this gen that would only amount to 60 or so mons, seemingly manageable to add, it would (or should) make it clear that GameFreak is sticking to the new status quo and does not plan on making all mons available in a single generation anymore. If they were to add them all then it just sets the expectation for next gen that all will eventually make it in, asking for another round of backlash and harassment if it happens in gen 8 but not gen 9.
Even if such a patch does does happen, I don't expect the mons not in BDSP or PLA to necessarily be patched in. Even though this gen that would only amount to 60 or so mons, seemingly manageable to add, it would (or should) make it clear that GameFreak is sticking to the new status quo and does not plan on making all mons available in a single generation anymore. If they were to add them all then it just sets the expectation for next gen that all will eventually make it in, asking for another round of backlash and harassment if it happens in gen 8 but not gen 9.
There's going to be backlash & harassment no matter what let's be real so I doubt that's a factor in what they do/do not do
Like if the remainder doesn't happen I think it will begin & end at: Time Constraints &/or Development Problems
aka the recurring problem these games have had the entire generation...at least the entire world state doesn't stop so you can climb a ladder now but I have a feeling Legends Arceus is going to have tell tale signs of "oh...you clearly ran out of time huh" regardless
Honestly speaking, it would be *better* if they don't.
Porting everything was a pandora box that was going to break open eventually, heck it was something that should have never been a thing in first place if their plan was to add a hundred-ish new pokes on top of new moves and mechanics every generation.
It was more or less doable with 2d sprites (still not endlessly sustainable), but as soon as the transition to 3d happened, the ridicolous amount of work required to keep it going every console generation was going to show up. Even if they hired more people, that's just delaying the issue (if that can even be delayed anymore).
It would actually be healthier for them to NOT add the new pokemon to Sword & Shield so they can continue to stick with reduced pokedex going forward. Even though some unreasonable national dex enjoyers who really feel the need to have Wurmple and Maractus in every game otherwise their life will be ruined forever may be annoyed, the healthier solution for the series is to actually stop even trying to have all the pokedex in every game.
(Also fun fact, did you know that the phrase "gotta catch em all" was removed from the games art in gen 3, because duh, it was the first actual Dexit of the series, just reddit wasn't a big thing yet so people couldn't threaten GF employees with murder on the internet yet?)
Well they did actually briefly bring it back for XY, but they dropped it shortly and hasn’t been seen since.
I agree, and not only would is be more sustainable but it gives them a chance to actually look through the older gen Pokemon they are including and maybe reconsider some things about them that doesn't quite match today's standards. Older Pokemon having stats increased and/or re-distributed, really update Movepools (especially with Movexit also being a thing, doing this may even tell them of what moves they need to include or new moves they need to make), maybe change up Abilities (and/or see what Abilities are lacking and give them better/additional effects; maybe consider allowing ways to obtain more Abilities than just the normal 2 + hidden), and for the love of Arceus adjust evolution levels so they at least make sense depending on when you get them in the game (and for post game Pokemon, maybe come up with a "default" evo level for every Pokemon so that, if they're not obtainable main game, they're still more reasonable; yes I'm looking mainly at the Unovan Pokemon but there's a few others which also really need this).
I'm just gonna say I wont hold my breath on any very big, substantial updates happening to Pokemon because of smaller dexes. Stat updates were a thing in gens 6 (the start of new hardware with a big shift on various fronts and a bunch of other gameplay factors like fairy and junk) & 7 (by which poitn we now had over 800 pokemon) but effectively not a thing at all in 8 (Aegislash, and as a nerf), the generation that cut over half the dex then had 2 segregated updates (and are now prepping a game that works on an entirely different design paradigm so we'll ignore it and the game made by another company that clearly had severe development problems).
Like it could, sure, in the future, maybe. But we could also have the home update come out for gen 9 and reveal they applied a bunch of buffs/changes to Pokemon/moves not in gen 9 anyway. Or they never touch a single Pokemon ever again out side of the required move tweaks.
e: I guess to be more clear, it's a neutral thing. They could bring back every Pokemon forever from now on or they keep to limited dexes, either way I think whatever the balancing powers that be will wind up looking at the dex in about the same way. If buffs/changes do or do not happen will or will not happen regardless.
Like it could, sure, in the future, maybe. But we could also have the home update come out for gen 9 and reveal they applied a bunch of buffs/changes to Pokemon/moves not in gen 9 anyway. Or they never touch a single Pokemon ever again out side of the required move tweaks.
e: I guess to be more clear, it's a neutral thing. They could bring back every Pokemon forever from now on or they keep to limited dexes, either way I think whatever the balancing powers that be will wind up looking at the dex in about the same way. If buffs/changes do or do not happen will or will not happen regardless.
Last edited:
Yeah, GAMEFREAK has more than enough resources to add all the Pokémon in, and the models/animations for Sword and Shield are the same as the ones in the 3DS games. It's more that, since Pokémon makes so much money with merchandise, they don't need to try anymore with the games, and considering that removing Pokémon, including the most popular Pokémon according to a recent poll, didn't affect their sales, nothing really will. Pokémon is basically a monopoly at this point, and whenever any new monster catching game comes out, it's automatically viewed as a ripoff of Pokémon even though SMT came first. The other games may have better graphics, more difficulty, etc., but they don't have Pikachu, or Charizard, and thus they will never be able to compete with such a massive media conglomerate like Pokémon.
The way I see it, not having all mons in swsh was more of means of getting us used to this system rather than expect all mons in every following game. At first I was really against Dexit, but as we approach nearly 1000 mons, I feel like not having all mons in is a way to tell to us that going forward not every mons will be available, not because its currently too many mons to handle, but because as the series grows larger, it will inevitably become a huge number of mons to be in the game as transfer-only (given currently regional dexes tend to have 400 ish mons, its already making it more mons in the code that are only available for transfer than mons you can actually catch), so I think they just figured eventually they'd have to axe mons at some point, so they did it sooner to tell the fans that this would be a thing eventually; plus between Lets Go, BDSP, SwSh and Legends, feels like they are at least trying to make it so most mons can be in at keast one gamr on the switch (that said the way they went about announcing this to the fandom was horrible)
ANYWAYS, as far as Legends mons go, I think there is a decent ppssibility of them being added to swsh because with the majority of the forms and evos we know, the species is already in swsh. Scyther, Basculin, Growlithe, Zoroark and Braviary are all already in SwSh, meaning only Wyrdeer and Voltirb are missing (side note, why does the game with a Pokeball mascot not have Voltorb lmao) Also, since Legends won't be where the competitive scene takes place in, I think there is a decent possibility of these mons being added to swsh simply because I don't think they'd add all these new mons only to not make them available in the current meta (the only similar case we had of thid was Melmetal, who isnt allowed in official competitive formats either way). Would be really weird if they added these now but we can't use them in competitive until the next time they show up in a mainline title
ANYWAYS, as far as Legends mons go, I think there is a decent ppssibility of them being added to swsh because with the majority of the forms and evos we know, the species is already in swsh. Scyther, Basculin, Growlithe, Zoroark and Braviary are all already in SwSh, meaning only Wyrdeer and Voltirb are missing (side note, why does the game with a Pokeball mascot not have Voltorb lmao) Also, since Legends won't be where the competitive scene takes place in, I think there is a decent possibility of these mons being added to swsh simply because I don't think they'd add all these new mons only to not make them available in the current meta (the only similar case we had of thid was Melmetal, who isnt allowed in official competitive formats either way). Would be really weird if they added these now but we can't use them in competitive until the next time they show up in a mainline title
You grossly underestimate the amount of animating and modeling work that goes into Pokemon Arnie clones. Just having the models doesn't do much if they don't have animations.
It's a extremely popular feature amongst the kids. And the pokemon have a TON of animations there, some of which reused from previous versions, some not.
I do wonder how many Camp animations are actually new; most of the ones I see are either from Amie/Refresh, from their normal battle animations, or are the walk/run animations they made in gen 7. I know there are a few, Gengar has this weird elaborate crash animation, but I've not seen that many otherwise. You'd think with the games being torn wide open we'd just have a full animation archive for every game somewhere. We're the pokemon fanbase, we love archives of information!
While I don't think they're in general going to be making big decisions based on fear of backlash, the magnitude of harassment that employees seem to have gotten over twitter and other outlets in response to dexit seems big enough that I could see GF/TPC at least internally floating the idea of not wishing to appear to partially cede to the #bringbacknationaldex 'movement' by including all mons by the end of the generation, only to not do so next generation and trigger a resurgence of the movement. Maybe it doesn't end up being weighted too heavily in the consideration of the business plan in the grand scheme of things, but if I were an employee there I think I would certainly feel like we should make a point of sticking to our decisions to demonstrate that toxic harassment campaigns aren't going to work.
Like, people love to ascribe many of GF's decisions to poor resource/time management or laziness, but I think some of those examples may be overly ascribed these reasons. For example, many questioned why all Kanto mons were not originally in SwSh given that their models were updated for LGPE, and while updating the models for camp and Dynamax and whatever else is certainly something they could have not had time for, I think it's also very possible that once they realized they could not feasibly include every Pokemon their choice of which mons to include pre-DLC was determined by some actual deliberate thought and not just "which mons are almost ready to go already"? (Like, even if all LPGE models were ready to include in SwSh, surely someone at the company would have said "Won't it look too conspicuous if all Kanto mons just so happen to be in Galar? Maybe we should leave some of them out?"*). If the last 60 or so do not make it in, we'll probably never know the real reason, but I would not just assume it's wholly 'ran out of time' and that it may have been a deliberate choice that GF sees as just part of the new status quo that not every mon will make it into every generation.
(*"Like, do we really need to include Charizard? Can't we make Dragapult Leon's ace?"
"You're fired.")
not necessarily, I know that it depends on the game (& the programs used) but the animation archives of stuff like smash bros or phoenix wright are floating around.I think classifying animations is a bit more complex than datamining movesets and putting them in a excel file
And I know you can do this at least partially with Pokemon, I've seen people open them up in whatever animation program and play or swap around animations which is how you get things like making pokemon do horrifying contortions to do the team skull poses.
CTNC
Doesn't know how to attack
I'm dying for leaks, not just because I'm thirsty for spoilers, but because I'm worried about one thing. I'd ask if I'm the only one worried about it, but I know I am. Please tell me it's possible to catch Wurmple, evolve it into Dustox, and teach it Poison Powder before the first battle you have to win! If you can't do that, please at least tell me it's possible to stall stuff until they use Struggle. I didn't buy my title from the 12 days of likeshop just to become unworthy of it after just a month!
The higher HP and different turn order style makes me wonder how about how different battles will be, especially with Status Moves Only. I have hopes that it will at least be more interesting, even if it's just because it's different, and I wonder if they rebalanced stuff like Poison and Leech Seed for the different battle system or if the different battle system's changes makes them work differently.
Does anyone else have any unusual questions, worries, or hopes that they think almost no one else has?
The higher HP and different turn order style makes me wonder how about how different battles will be, especially with Status Moves Only. I have hopes that it will at least be more interesting, even if it's just because it's different, and I wonder if they rebalanced stuff like Poison and Leech Seed for the different battle system or if the different battle system's changes makes them work differently.
Does anyone else have any unusual questions, worries, or hopes that they think almost no one else has?
Another thing about Status Moves for the game mechanics is the style mechanic. So far there doesn't seem to be any advantage of using Status Moves in Strong Style. If all Strong does is boost your damage, Status sounds to be unnaffected, which in turn means you would always want to use Agile for Status, which idt sounds very interesting. Wonder if we are missing anything that could change that?
On the topic of Leech Seed though, me and some friends were discussing Voltirb and Yung Dramps brought up the possibility of it being a SubSeeder. Its site desc mentions it stores Seeds inside itself, and assuming it evolves to something at least somewhat similar to Kantonian Electrode, its going to not only have impecable Speed, but also have the ability Soundproof, which improves SubSeed sets since Sound moves no longer can bypass your strat (with the bonus effect of being immune to the main Special Bug STAB lol)