Pokemon TCG Revisited

[The.Lost.Hylian]

This topic shall serve three purposes. One, to see if anyone has played the TCG. Second, to see if anyone is interested in playing again using an online program known as Red Shark. And third, to see if anyone would be interested in playing with completely new cards created by (you guessed it) the members of the Smogon community :]

You see, I've found myself growing tired of my usual hobbies, and for some reason, I feel like playing card games again. Magic the Gathering is a little too complex and costly to play competitively lately, but Pokemon is simple and easy to play. On top of that, this Red Shark program allows you to add new cards. So here's my idea:

If there is enough interest in my idea of mine, I'd work with whoever is willing to help in creating a custom set of cards with which to play each other with. My goal is to basically take the skeleton of the current TCG and rework it to make it a little more... involved and in tune with the actual gameplay of the video games. Which I mean, giving realistic weaknesses and resistances to Pokemon, and taking into consideration of defensive capabilities when issuing HP and weaknesses/resistances.

Since the Trainer card availability in the current TCG is already well in place, my emphasis is to be on the Pokemon. That isn't to say that we shouldn't make new Trainer cards, but we shouldn't focus on them.

To give you all an example of what I had in mind, here's the Squirtle>Wartortle>Blastoise idea I came up with. Do take note that I intend on maxing HP at 250, which would be exclusively for Blissey, so take that into consideration when you see my example.

Squirtle
Water
60 HP
Weakness: Electric +20
Resistance: Fire -10
Retreat Cost: 1
PokeBody - Shell Armor
Reduce all damage done to Squirtle by 10 (after applying Weakness and Resistance).
Water Gun - W - 20+
This attack does 20 damage plus 10 more damage for each W energy attached to Squirtle not used to pay for this attack's energy cost. You can't add more than 20 damage in this way.

Wartortle
Water
100 HP
Weakness: Electric +20
Resistance: Fire -20
Retreat Cost: 2
Bubble Shower - WW - 20
Flip a coin. If heads, the Defending Pokemon is now Paralyzed. If tails, this attack does 10 damage to each of your opponent's Benched Pokemon (don't apply Weakness and Resistance for Benched Pokemon).
Tidal Wave - WWW - 70
Wartortle may not use Tidal Wave during your next turn.

Blastoise
Water
160 HP
Weakness: Electric +20
Resistance: Fire -30
Retreat Cost: 3
PokePower - Rain Dance
As often as you like during your turn (before your attack), you may attach 1 W energy card from your hand to any of your W Pokemon. Rain Dance may not be used if Blastoise has a Special Condition.
Flush - W
Count the number of cards in your hand. Then, discard your hand and draw that many cards.
Snipe - WW
Choose one of your opponent's Pokemon. This attack does 30 damage to that Pokemon. Don't apply Weakness and Resistance.
Hydro Cannon - WWW - 20+
Flip a coin for each W energy attached to Blastoise. This attack does 20 damage plus 20 more damage for each heads.



Take note that this is not my final draft, just an idea. If there is interest in this "project" of mine, please reply and let me know. I do not have my own computer right now since my hard drive fried, so my activity on the forum will be limited until I get my computer operable. So, please discuss ideas, but do not post any detailed examples like my own. If there is enough interest in this "project" I will make a new "official" thread for that kind of discussion.

 

[DiamondDust]

does want.
i would be interested.
is there a ban list?
i hear in japan, where they still play it, they limited bill to one.

 

[Marauder Artemis]

I've been trying to get back into the TCG lately. I stopped playing around the end of the "E-" series (Skyridge was the last one iirc) but have recently had newfound interest in the game. Redshark sounds cool and I have been meaning to d/l it as it's kinda pointless to buy cards as 1) No one other than my brother plays, and 2) There are no leagues within a good distance [to my knowledge] from where I am.

Your custom card idea sounds cool ;o

 

[The.Lost.Hylian]

Less interest than I had hoped for ;[

 

[Wolt]

I've recently gotten back into this and spent buttloads on cards and made a few decks. I'm glad I'm not the only one here who wants to play the game. My friends all suck at the game because I got recent cards, whereas they play using base set and stuff from outdated sets. I would love to get this off the ground and play competitively. I have no idea how my actual decks would hold up, but I would like to know.

 

[leafgreen386]

I'm definitely interested. I was actually looking at some of the new cards the other day (which are looking ridiculously broken, btw - for example, an exeggcute that can place any two grass or psychics onto your bench for iirc just a single colorless, with some truly amazing psychics in that set that could be used with it, in addition to some amazing drawing supporter cards). I used to play waaaaaaay back when, and stopped playing around the first rocket expansion (even though I still kept up with the cards for some reason for a while after that). I went to 4 or so prerelease tourneys starting with the ruby/sapphire ex set, and placed decently at two, really well at one, and got terrible pulls at the fourth. I'd be glad to get playing again with an online simulator. I'll need to do some catching up, though, on the new cards, as it's been quite a while since I've been in the loop.

is there a ban list?
i hear in japan, where they still play it, they limited bill to one.

Oh how I wish the ban list in america was that kind. There have traditionally been two formats - the advanced format (or w/e it's called) where you're only allowed to use cards from the past 4 or so sets (and you may use up to 4 copies of any of them - there have been very very rare cases where they have limited a card, the only one that I can think of atm being the sneasel with beat up from one of the gym leader expansions, which I believe was limited to 2), and the unlimited format where you can use anything from any set. As I'm sure you can imagine, the unlimited format is extremely broken, decided mainly by whoever goes first, so it isn't played much.

And although I like the idea of making cards for this... We're gonna have to do some balancing. Like, do you have any idea how broken that blastoise is? Rain dance was already overpowered when blastoise had 100 HP, a 2x lightning weak, and could do at most 60 damage on its own. Haven't you ever seen a good rain dance deck? lol

 

[Shigeru]

I would pick up the cards again (meaning experiment with Red Shark), if there weren't so many new cards to looks over. It would tremendously help if there was some type of text document out there with all the cards' information.

On a side note, I wouldn't mind seeing a TCG game for the DS; has there been any news at all on this?

 

[Marauder Artemis]

I'd love a TCG game for the DS - hell, I still play the original Pokemon TCG for the Gameboy Color!

Concurring with lg here; cards are slowly becoming more and more powerful these days. Cheaper attacks for more damage output is g_g

And for some reason when I click Redshark on Pokebeach, it brings me to an odd page ?_?

 

[Shigeru]

Well the higher damage rate is being matched by ludicrous amounts of HP. I remember how Charizard was coveted for having 120 HP or something, but now, 120 is just 120.

 

[leafgreen386]

I don't mind the ridiculous damage/HP that much. What I do mind are the effects. Pokemon isn't nearly as an effect driven game as yugioh is, but search and draw effects are still incredibly overpowered.

I remember how Charizard was coveted for having 120 HP or something

Tbh I never understood the hype with charizard. Fire spin was basically an auto-KO in those days, but it took so much time to build up, requiring four energy for its attack, and being a stage 2 card, and then having to discard two energy for it... it was ridiculously costly. The HP was the only reason it was even usable, allowing it to survive until it could let loose its attack.

But 120 is still a lot. It seems the typical HP for a basic pokemon is around 60 or so now, but after going through a few sets, I'd say 100 HP is still a very respectable number for a stage 1, and 120 is very good for a stage 2. We're past the days of ex pokemon, where the pokemon were both powerful and hard to take down, but when you did, you got two prize cards. Everything seems to be becoming more aggressive and fast paced, with more powerful, less costly attacks (and some attacks now don't even cost any energy, if I'm understanding this correctly, for example, mewtwo from this set), and several very powerful effects helping you get out your big hitters faster. Now, I don't necessarily think this is that bad. I'm used to playing a game that can end in three turns, after all, and even with all of these new powerful cards, I don't think games are ever going to end that quickly. Well, at least as long as you're not playing unlimited.

 

[Shigeru]

I don't mind the ridiculous damage/HP that much. What I do mind are the effects. Pokemon isn't nearly as an effect driven game as yugioh is, but search and draw effects are still incredibly overpowered.

Just flipping through Majestic Dawn. Lol at Cresselia's Healing Light, Darkrai in general, Dialga in general, etc.

I can see this making the games a lot shorter and even a bit centralized, but they also make me interested to try out a game. If someone were to polish Red Shark into a full pledged Pokemon TCG simulator, I would totally give it a shot.

 

[leafgreen386]

Darkrai and dialga aren't that great imo. They require special energy cards just to attack. Of course... there are cards that can retrieve special energy cards from your deck, so perhaps that isn't as big of a detriment as it used to be. Now, if you want to see some truly ridiculous effects, look no further than the psychics of legend's awakened.

 

[Doomsday]

I would play and help out, though I prefer the old school cards :[ whatever as long as this is fun. does the sim have any card images or something?

 

[Truthi]

Yeah, I would totally get into the card game. It sounds like a lot of fun, and if a lot of people from here will do it too, it'd be even better.

So is this Red Shark thing like the Shoddy of the DS games or something?

 

[Wolt]

Darkrai and dialga aren't that great imo. They require special energy cards just to attack. Of course... there are cards that can retrieve special energy cards from your deck, so perhaps that isn't as big of a detriment as it used to be. Now, if you want to see some truly ridiculous effects, look no further than the psychics of legend's awakened.

Sorry, but they introduced basic Dark and Steel energies into the game, not sure when but it makes them and all Dark and Steel cards much more useful/viable. As for rules and such on card sets to be used, why did they ban the ex series? Too old or something? If you want to look at something broken look at the Chimchar evo chain in the recent set, it can entirely survive on 1 Fire energy and put out impressive damage. Another thing I would like to point out is that if we do create our own cards lets remember that not everything needs an effect on attacks.

 

[leafgreen386]

Sorry, but they introduced basic Dark and Steel energies into the game, not sure when but it makes them and all Dark and Steel cards much more useful/viable.

You're... kidding... right? Wow, I'm way out of the loop. Hm, well that would explain why the darkness and metal energies in majestic dawn say "doesn't count as a basic energy card." But wow... that makes some cards really... really... broken.

As for rules and such on card sets to be used, why did they ban the ex series? Too old or something?

I don't know exactly how far back they're allowing sets nowadays, but in the past they've always banned all sets further than 4 or 5 sets back.

If you want to look at something broken look at the Chimchar evo chain in the recent set, it can entirely survive on 1 Fire energy and put out impressive damage.

Yeah, I noticed that. I was gonna look for pokepowers or trainers that might make getting energy easier, because with just three fire energy, that infernape can take out pretty much any card in the game. Although after looking through some of this stuff, I think there are more broken things out there worth taking advantage of.

 

[TheMantyke]

Just got back into this stuff recently. It can be pretty fun, but it's pricey as hell. A single booster pack is FIVE DOLLARS.

The red shark program helps though, I knew there was something like this on the internet.

And yeah, the new D/P cards are insane. The Secret wonders Gallade card has a 60 damage attack that allows you to flip over your prize card and add 20 percent for each card you flip.

 

[Shigeru]

does the sim have any card images or something?

I recall trying it once for the hell of it. I don't remember the cards having images. I may not have been using the program correctly, or it may have been updated to include them now.

One thing I dislike about Redshark is the lack of automation in the gameplay. As quoated from PokeBeach:

Redshark DOES NOT know or enforce the Pokemon TCG rules. This is the responsibility of the players. Mistakes and cheating can occur, just like in real life, so it is each players's prerogative to insure the game is played correctly.

This is unlike the official GB game, and it looks like it could slow a match. Especially being a game based on a Magic: The Gathering simulator. It's also apparently PokeBeach exclusive, so they hold all the cards when it comes to programming.

 

[leafgreen386]

Why does it matter if the game doesn't know the rules? This is a very simple game, and unlike other games (ie. yugioh) there isn't much need for consulting rulings and such, as everything is pretty much right on the cards. I've had games of yugioh get very hung up over complex rulings on the way the cards interact, but usually things go very smoothly, despite nothing being automated. As long as the sim provides a way to actually carry out each of the different cards' effects, it shouldn't be a problem.

And yeah, the new D/P cards are insane. The Secret wonders Gallade card has a 60 damage attack that allows you to flip over your prize card and add 20 percent for each card you flip.

Of course... because it needed to be able to compete with ex cards at the time (from power keepers and probably dragon frontiers), all the early DP cards are ridiculously powerful. It's a trend I'm just now starting to notice as I go further back in the sets. It seems that the newest cards have broken effects, while less new cards have broken everything ._.

 

[Maku~thehowlingvortex~]

Pokemon TCG, eh?

Man.....that takes me back >.>
I really enjoyed it, but there weren't many people around me to battle against. I had over 20 decks (and still do) and over 7,000 cards. I'm glad I was finally able to kick the stuff. (...waste of money if no one plays ya...) I still have all my cards though. They're in a binder in my closet....a binder that weighs...well....greater than an encyclopedia or two. ^^

Haven't seen too many of the newer cards though. The GB game was awesome though. Though for those who did play me with the cards, my water deck was pure destruction. The old base set Blastoise pours liquid joy upon my Suicune EX/Wailord EX/Walrein!!! (hehe....that was fun..) ^____^

Well, I guess that's all I have to say on that subject. =D

 

[skyfox500]

I haven't played the real-life TCG, just an old copy of the GB color game, but this sounds like a good idea. If it does work out, I would definitely be interested in playing it.

 

[Wolt]

As far as complex rules go, certain cards do have enough descriptions for certain effects of attacks, although its a small concern, I'm just not sure how a particular scenario would play out. The card that first comes to mind is Double Rainbow Energy, providing 2 energy of any color, but I'm unsure if it means that both can be any color or it acts as 2 of the same. Its just a weird thing that has bothered me ever since I got the card in a booster. If we were to make our own cards, I suggest we introduce the random engine into the game. Certain attacks that let you target any pokemon on the opponents field become random. It would also let us use the Legendary cards from the GB game, which I have always wanted to use even if some of them did suck.

 

[Deck Knight]

There are still quite a few places around like Pokebeach where they use Apprentice Patches to get all the cards and get their decks. I still have it installed on my comp. Apprentice never really did shell out a user-friendly connection system, but it can be done.

 

[leafgreen386]

As far as complex rules go, certain cards do have enough descriptions for certain effects of attacks, although its a small concern, I'm just not sure how a particular scenario would play out. The card that first comes to mind is Double Rainbow Energy, providing 2 energy of any color, but I'm unsure if it means that both can be any color or it acts as 2 of the same. Its just a weird thing that has bothered me ever since I got the card in a booster.

Double rainbow energy is no different than the original rainbow energy, except for that it provides an additional energy. Rainbow energy is probably one of the most confusing cards in the game, that I actually didn't completely understand myself, until I read an article that explained it. Cards like ho-oh get the benefits from all 6 (or is it 8 now?) types of basic energy, but it would need three additional energy to perform the attack, despite technically having every type of basic energy attached. Double rainbow energy should be the same, in that it "provides" two energy to carry out the cost of attacks, while the pokemon is treated as if it has every type of energy equipped at a time. And of course, it only counts as a single energy card.

If we were to make our own cards, I suggest we introduce the random engine into the game. Certain attacks that let you target any pokemon on the opponents field become random. It would also let us use the Legendary cards from the GB game, which I have always wanted to use even if some of them did suck.

...why? We can recreate the legendary cards from the GB game to work with the roll of a dice or flip of a coin. We can do that for any "random" effect. Furthermore, does redshark even have a random engine (besides for picking a card from hand)?

 

[Wolt]

Double rainbow energy is no different than the original rainbow energy, except for that it provides an additional energy. Rainbow energy is probably one of the most confusing cards in the game, that I actually didn't completely understand myself, until I read an article that explained it. Cards like ho-oh get the benefits from all 6 (or is it 8 now?) types of basic energy, but it would need three additional energy to perform the attack, despite technically having every type of basic energy attached. Double rainbow energy should be the same, in that it "provides" two energy to carry out the cost of attacks, while the pokemon is treated as if it has every type of energy equipped at a time. And of course, it only counts as a single energy card.

Funny you would mention Ho-oh, because that was where the confusion originally lied when it came about. What I meant though was that if it could provide two different energy at the same time, or if it was like double colorless energy and could only provide two of the same. Not sure what the difference between it and Multi-energy is though. The random effect was to possibly balance out certain cards, but it's not that big of a deal.