Pokemon VGC 2010 DATES / rules announced for the US!

[blizzcano320]

I know I won't be able to participate in this and probably not the U.S. VGC either, but I will post my ideas. Also, I am sorry if I copy anything, but I only read the first page.

Sunny Day Team-Groudon(slow of course), Exeggutor, Cherrim(with Focus Sash or Endure), and a filler pokemon. The filler could be Roserade, a fire-type with heatwave, a weather-pokemon, etc. My thoughts are that Cherrim with Protect, Focus Sash, and Sunnyday could help thwart F/O users and set up sun if the weather has changed and Groudon is bye-bye.

Also, a gimmicky set would be to abuse fast and powerful Rock Slides coupled with other moves of course and maybe a wide lens. If your 2 pokemon use Rock Slide first and they both hit, than the opponent's pokemon have a 60% chance to flinch EACH. Can someone find the percent that at least one pokemon will flinch everyturn.

 

[Chirnobyl]

would it really be a 60% chance to flinch each? do they really stack like that? o.o, I have thought of a Skill Swap Blissey + Aerodactyl to pull of something like this before though... just... too frail lol

 

[mattj]

would it really be a 60% chance to flinch each? do they really stack like that? o.o, I have thought of a Skill Swap Blissey + Aerodactyl to pull of something like this before though... just... too frail lol

Dunsparce.....

 

[Chirnobyl]

sadly Dunsparce doesn't have the Speed to pull it off lol

 

[mattj]

sadly Dunsparce doesn't have the Speed to pull it off lol

Trick Room. 4 turns of 60% Double Flinch hax fun! XD

 

[blizzcano320]

If Dunsparce and partner go first, it is actually a 90% that each pokemon will flinch.

(30% for partner)+(30%*2 for Dunsparce)=90%

Also, King's Rock does not help the flinch rate.

EDIT: I think 2 regular, non-Serene Grace pokemon have the opponent flinching 79% of the time and one Serene Grace pokemon ups it to 88%.
Someone please correct or verify all 4 rates.

 

[Chirnobyl]

... see that's what I'm questioning, I doubt the flinch rate stacks like that, at best it would be 60% and 30% not 60% + 30%...

 

[mattj]

... see that's what I'm questioning, I doubt the flinch rate stacks like that, at best it would be 60% and 30% not 60% + 30%...

Yeah, it's probably separate.

30% chance, 60% chance.

 

[Chirnobyl]

blizzcano... what are you asking? the chances that at least one of them will flinch? in which case I think it would be 70% for non-serene grace and 88% for one serene gracer, factoring in accuracy

 

[Gymdude]

It's good to see the seemingly always banned Tyranitar get a chance to participate, but I still don't understand many of VGC's bans. Otherwise, it should be pretty interesting...

 

[Chirnobyl]

most of the bans of VGC were due to level restrain, because you couldn't have had a level 50 Dragonite or Tyranitar they were pretty much banned, until the second time after which the event Dragonite was released

 

[blizzcano320]

It seems as if my rockslide idea was dropped out of conversation.
Good.
I am unsure of my math, but I am pretty sure some of these apply.SR=Serene Grace
Tesing Rockslide double flinch chance.
NOT FACTORING ACCURACY

0SR-60% or 79% or approx43%
1SR-90% or 88% or approx50%

Please somebody good at math check if one of these are correct. Otherwise, lets forget about rockslide. Also, Me-First FTW. I am pretty sure it has enough strengths to be considered on a team.

 

[3.14159]

I don't know if I'm right but without accuracy (normal flinch rate=30%), I would say:
1 Rock Slide without Serene Grace: 49% no flinch, 9% two flinches, 42% one flinch
2 Rock Slides without Serene Grace: 24,01% no flinch, 26,01% two flinches, 49,98% one flinch
1 Rock Slide with Serene Grace: 16% no flinch, 36% two flinches, 48% one flinch
1 Rock Slide with Serene Grace + 1 Rock Slide without Serene Grace: 7,84% no flinch, 51,84% two flinches, 40,32% one flinch
2 Rock Slides with Serene Grace: 2,56% no flinch, 70,56% two flinches, 26,88% one flinch

with accuracy (normal flinch rate=27%):
1 Rock Slide without Serene Grace: 53,29% no flinch, 7,29% two flinches, 39,42% one flinch
2 Rock Slides without Serene Grace: 28,40% no flinch, 21,81% two flinches, 49,79% one flinch
1 Rock Slide with Serene Grace: 21,16% no flinch, 29,16% two flinches, 49,68% one flinch
1 Rock Slide with Serene Grace + 1 Rock Slide without Serene Grace: 11,28% no flinch, 44,12% two flinches, 44,60% one flinch
2 Rock Slides with Serene Grace: 4,48% no flinch, 51,11% two flinches, 44,41% one flinch

Its a shame, that Jirachi doesn't learn Rock Slide. Only Blissey and Dunsparce learn it and they don't get Trick Room. For the VGC09 I considered a team with Aerodactyle+Scarf T'tar flinching everyone but as everybody knows poor T'tar wasn't allowed :/

 

[blizzcano320]

Looks good.
But as you said you were not sure, we have to wait for someone who IS sure to confirm. At least Tyranitar is allowed this time. Although I hate all the pseudo-legendaries with passion, except for Metagross.

 

[mattj]

Has anybody confirmed that Lustrious Orb and... that other one... >.> ??? are currently usable in Japan? I somehow never realized Palkia is a base 100 spd, so is actually usable in my eyes (I'm just the type of player that doesn't feel comfortable using anything not base 100^^, + spd nature 252 EVs...)

 

[drcossack]

Has anybody confirmed that Lustrious Orb and... that other one... >.> ??? are currently usable in Japan? I somehow never realized Palkia is a base 100 spd, so is actually usable in my eyes (I'm just the type of player that doesn't feel comfortable using anything not base 100^^, + spd nature 252 EVs...)

Lustrous and Adamant (the Orbs for Dialga and Palkia) should be freely transferable between Platinum and HG/SS, since those two don't change form. The only reason all 3 can't be transferred is because of Griseous' other property - the form change on Giratina.

Though, really, the boost those two orbs would provide (to Water, Steel, and Dragon moves) isn't really necessary, unless you want to kill stuff faster. I think all 3 give you the same bonus as STAB (1.5x), so all of your attacks will be 1.5x, 3x, or 4.5x stronger (if my math is correct), depending on the weather. In any case, Dialga and Palkia would be better off with damage-reducing Berries - Chople/Shuca for Dialga and Haban for Palkia.

 

[Pink]

I'd just use a Tyranitar with Garchomp. Garchomp @Brightpowder and throw some Double team on it. Maybe even get some Flash support in their. Who says you need to fight ethically?

 

[drcossack]

I'd just use a Tyranitar with Garchomp. Garchomp @Brightpowder and throw some Double team on it. Maybe even get some Flash support in their. Who says you need to fight ethically?

Sand Veil or not, Garchomp would be killed after the first Double Team: LO Dragon Claw Rayquaza. I run into people on the Ubers ladder who forget about his ability at least once every day; you think some noob who doesn't know about EV's or IV's is going to know what Air Lock does?

 

[Pink]

This is true... Rayquaza sucks lol. Well, If there's a Rayquaza, don't double team. Besides, if you gave T-tar Mud Slap, Garchomp Double Team, and had Bright Powder, even without Sand Veil, it would only hit 50% of the time after Brightpowder, Mud Slap and Double team. Yeah, It's a little gimmicky, but I'm just saying, why play ethically when we don't have to. you know? The opponents might not, so we shouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[drcossack]

This is true... Rayquaza sucks lol. Well, If there's a Rayquaza, don't double team. Besides, if you gave T-tar Mud Slap, Garchomp Double Team, and had Bright Powder, even without Sand Veil, it would only hit 50% of the time after Brightpowder, Mud Slap and Double team. Yeah, It's a little gimmicky, but I'm just saying, why play ethically when we don't have to. you know? The opponents might not, so we shouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt.

From what I've seen, we really have nothing to worry about. If you've seen the videos posted a few pages ago (of Japanese players), these guys SUCK. Fly Lugia? I'd expect a 10 year old to do that. Granted, I don't know how much time they had to adjust to a metagame with Ubers - who knows, maybe the Japanese will have some better stuff in future tourneys.

Even on PBR, I rarely see anything noteworthy in terms of VGC teams. I mentioned two that I ran into earlier in the thread, and ran into an American 2010 Rain team 2 or 3 days ago. It wasn't any particularly great.

 

[Pink]

PBR and those videos are hardly indicative of how we'll do against them >.> Honestly, last year mostly proved to me that luck is not on our side and that abusing it is the way to win, in my opinion. If we just abuse things we've banned because we know they're broken, that seems the surest way to victory to me! =) Anyways, iirc, some teams abused crits and para last year. Evasion would be an easy way to win. Might take ALL fun out of the game, but you're working.

 

[POKEMONBATTLEBRAIN]

If it was Garchomp vs Rayquaza, you would just Dragon Claw Rayquaza and OHKO it instead of using Double Team, since Garchomp is faster(102 base Speed vs 95). Only case where this doesn't work is if Garchomp is Adamant and Rayquaza is + nature and max Speed, since then Rayquaza will outspeed by 7 Speed points. All the other times though Garchomp will outspeed and, barring Haban or Focus Sash, kill Rayquaza.

 

[drcossack]

If it was Garchomp vs Rayquaza, you would just Dragon Claw Rayquaza and OHKO it instead of using Double Team, since Garchomp is faster(102 base Speed vs 95). Only case where this doesn't work is if Garchomp is Adamant and Rayquaza is + nature and max Speed, since then Rayquaza will outspeed by 7 Speed points. All the other times though Garchomp will outspeed and, barring Haban or Focus Sash, kill Rayquaza.

True - Ray's main use would be to stop weather, but that can also be done by switching out and coming back (which you may or may not be doing against another weather - in a doubles weather battle, whoever controls it wins.) Outrage, Dragon Claw, Ice Beam, etc - without the appropriate Berry, Ray is easily OHKO'd (though, depending on the hold item of the attacking Pokemon [and a possible crit], it may still get OHKO'd anyway.

Still, I am tempted to see how useful he might be if partnered with Togekiss. I've got a couple different Rayquaza sets I can use to test; even if it turns out that he'll suck, I'm interested to see what develops.

 

[Team_Rose]

I've been testing a rayquaza set myself. I find it to be very effective on auto-weather teams. They will try to take out rayquaza right away so I have it protect and give its partner a very easy chance to set up, for me its froslass with icy wind. Then on the next turn I have froslass use leer then rayquaza takes out the biggest threat. Froslass can also taunt if need be. Its been very effective against all I've faced, the only losses were very close ones.

 

[Chirnobyl]

the thing about playing with those chances is that you're basically throwing your chances of winning all into that chance that you'll dodge, or land a crit or something
hmm I'm still not used to the fact that Ubers are now running around... I should check on PBR how many people are using them and how well I'd fare if I faced one...