Serious Political Correctness and Race

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atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
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or can we just accept every single shade of skin can do something crappy to any other shade of skin and we should all just treat each other with respect and dignity????????
This literally what political correctness aims to do? Literally no one has said anything condoning this crime, and you're pretty clearly out of touch if you think that we would be surprised POC can do shitty things (no shit) or that we'd condone this act (pro-torture is a conservative position). Hopefully these people get a long jail sentence.

Unlike when a group of white teens raped a mentally challenged black kid with a coat hanger and got literally no jail time https://www.google.com/amp/www.hotn...mate-with--news.26545.html?_amp?client=safari
 
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/01...-alleged-kidnapping-torture-is-live-streamed/

tl;dr mentally unwell boy kidnapped by 4 people, cut up, wounds used as ash tray, anti-white/trump crap spouted

any white guilters wanna try and excuse away this hate crime?

or can we just accept every single shade of skin can do something crappy to any other shade of skin and we should all just treat each other with respect and dignity????????
Dude what are you talking about?Nobody is saying hate crimes against white people are A-OK? And what are people making you feel guilty about?
I mean like, people being born after racist caricatures were a thing.
Or even, I don't think anyone living right now had been a black slave.
So, another example of my question was, as atomicllamas said, should "go and pick cotton" still be racist nowadays, even when no one living right now had been a black slave?


(I mean, I understand how black people are still very oppressed right now, but I think that calling everything racist is making them more unhappy instead of making the world a better place for them.)
Black people don't claim slavery as our struggle. We have other racial issues,such as discrimination in housing, schools, justice system, and in jobs. However, I will say the system of slavery has constantly recycled itself.
except the professor in question published a paper praising the genocide of white people in haiti and genuinely believes exterminating people of [race] is a good thing? but that's ok because [race] is white? makes u a $#!% person in my book t b h.

but yea it's totally unrelated to bring up a racially motivated hate crime in a thread that was half-dead ABOUT race lmao and try and throw logical fallacies at my posts but ignore the irrelevant ad hominem attempts to claim i'm projecting some.. guilt.. thing? why aren't you calling those out dice?

i didn't realize this thread was just here to circlejerk considering you lot care more about claiming i'm projecting than focusing on the fact a mentally disabled kid got tortured over his race, which, again, he didn't exactly pick. look at your own ugly mentalities when you reflect on how much more you'd care if the perpetrators were 4 white people doing this to a minority spouting UP WITH TRUMP HATE [BLACKS MUSLIMS HISPANICS ASIANS] hateful nonsense and ask yourself why tf it matters what color the victim of a hate crime is in how invested in the incident you are. i didn't vote trump due to my dislike for his views on race before you try and spout that btw.
you're gonna need to specifiy what is so hateful about "our mentalities"
Physically attacking anyone due to their skin color is wrong, no matter what skin color the offenders are...
But it seems that some libs don't agree and think that hate crimes against white people are ok.
What the . . . ? Where are you getting this mess from?
I thought "reverse racism" means when you favor an ethnic minority over a white, (like affirmative action), or that a dark skinned person could get away with something because he/ she has dark skin, so some people think it's a good thing.
I don't think the phrase means oppressing/ abusing white people.
affirmative action isn't racist. You're falsely assuming that black and white people are on an equal playing field.

Reverse racism is a BS concept anyway. To act like the racist acts against minorities such as black people by white people is equivalent to the racist acts against white people by black people is historically ignorant and foolish. What happened to that kid is awful, but it doesn't change the truth.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
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Anyone who knows me knows I think rapists should be punished much worse than they are now so it's truly tragic those scumbags were able to plea bargain down their crimes. What else were you expecting me to say about it? People who do crap things should go to jail, I agree it is stupid the idiots involved in that did not.

So "the truth" is the crime by blacks onto a white disabled kid is lesser than the crime by whites onto a black disabled kid because of historical situations?

That's my problem. I don't think either is lesser due to the race involved on any side. It's all one big heinous act of intolerance and needless aggression onto someone extremely easy to take advantage of. I want anyone who perpetrates violence against someone else, whether due to their skin tone whatever that may be or not, to rot in jail. Rather than saying the white victim is... less a victim because he's part of the majority? Gross.
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
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Anyone who knows me knows I think rapists should be punished much worse than they are now so it's truly tragic those scumbags were able to plea bargain down their crimes. What else were you expecting me to say about it? People who do crap things should go to jail, I agree it is stupid the idiots involved in that did not.

So "the truth" is the crime by blacks onto a white disabled kid is lesser than the crime by whites onto a black disabled kid because of historical situations?

That's my problem. I don't think either is lesser due to the race involved on any side. It's all one big heinous act of intolerance and needless aggression onto someone extremely easy to take advantage of. I want anyone who perpetrates violence against someone else, whether due to their skin tone whatever that may be or not, to rot in jail. Rather than saying the white victim is... less a victim because he's part of the majority? Gross.
Didn't say it was worse because the victim was black, to be frank I didn't read / watch what you linked, so I don't know what crime was worse. My point was that what has been labeled as political correctness "gone to far", by the right is literally what you are saying, that we should treat each other with respect without concern towards demographics (like political correctness is literally affording people (of any race/religion/sexual orientation/etc.) respect).

All this, "political correctness gone too far" shit is from a party that literally has expanding the right to torture gay teens as part of its party platform in 2017. Like conservatives made "political correctness" into some scary buzzword "because Libtards have gone too far!" Too far with what? Thinking perhaps a cop that shoots an unarmed black guy should be investigated and charged, and if there is literal video of them running away from the cop unarmed before being shot 5 times in the back the cop should be convicted and not get a hung jury because a cop was on the jury? Or allowing 2 consenting adults to marry cause why the fuck is it anyone else's business? Or saying hey, I don't think you should allow religious parents to electrocute gay teens until they're straight because that's not how sexual orientation works and electrocuting people who can't consent is a human rights violation?

You don't seem like the kind of person who is mad they can't say (BAN ME PLEASE) or (BAN ME PLEASE) without being called a bigot, so I would also guess you spend at least 98% of your time being politically correct so I don't understand what your problem with this is? And if you don't have a problem with this, then I'm not sure what the point of your post was? Unless you actually think "whites should die" or "I hate all whites" is a mainstream liberal view (it's not). If you think that I'd recommend not watching Fox News for a month or so, it may bring you back to reality.

As for my pointing out they didn't go to jail, white privilege (which this was a clear example of) is going to be relevant in any discussion of US race relations. I once again do hope that the people in your article are appropriately punished, but given the sentencing discrepancies between POC and whites, I doubt that's something I need to worry about.
 

EV

Banned deucer.
I don't think the ones I posted have racist intentions.
But of course, I'd say it's a really bad idea for a UK or American shop to sell them, the shopkeepers should have known the history.
The ones you posted were being sold in the UK, so I don't follow what you mean.

What I'm reading is that you don't think racist caricatures are a thing unless they're happening in places with a history of racial inequality, such as the US or UK. But, again, the golliwogs were sold in the UK, so how aren't they racist?

Also, no one currently alive in the US suffered under slavery (human trafficking tho), but that doesn't dismiss the effects of slavery / segregation, the latter of which existed up until ~60 years ago, meaning quite a lot of people who were around for it are still alive. So to say that "people being born after racist caricatures were a thing" shouldn't be rattled by the golliwogs is confusing, because they probably remember them happening in their own lifetimes. Also why do XY&Z disparities suddenly disappear in the next generation?

(I mean, I understand how black people are still very oppressed right now
Your own words, but you keep contradicting them.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Cresselia~~

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The ones you posted were being sold in the UK, so I don't follow what you mean.

What I'm reading is that you don't think racist caricatures are a thing unless they're happening in places with a history of racial inequality, such as the US or UK. But, again, the golliwogs were sold in the UK, so how aren't they racist?

Also, no one currently alive in the US suffered under slavery (human trafficking tho), but that doesn't dismiss the effects of slavery / segregation, the latter of which existed up until ~60 years ago, meaning quite a lot of people who were around for it are still alive. So to say that "people being born after racist caricatures were a thing" shouldn't be rattled by the golliwogs is confusing, because they probably remember them happening in their own lifetimes. Also why do XY&Z disparities suddenly disappear in the next generation?


Your own words, but you keep contradicting them.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Those keychains are produced in China
And are kinda popular right now
There's like a small trend of it.
So it originally was not racist, but it's very awkward for a UK shop to sell them, instead of a China shop.
 

Cresselia~~

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This literally what political correctness aims to do? Literally no one has said anything condoning this crime, and you're pretty clearly out of touch if you think that we would be surprised POC can do shitty things (no shit) or that we'd condone this act (pro-torture is a conservative position). Hopefully these people get a long jail sentence.

Unlike when a group of white teens raped a mentally challenged black kid with a coat hanger and got literally no jail time https://www.google.com/amp/www.hotnewhiphop.com/no-jail-time-for-white-high-schooler-who-sexually-assaulted-black-mentally-challenged-teammate-with--news.26545.html?_amp?client=safari
Screenshot_2017-01-06-16-05-15.png
 

Cresselia~~

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I can sum up the problems social liberals are facing right now fairly briefly, which I'm sure thread readers will enjoy compared to the rest of the thread:

[...]

Arguments were then advanced which relied on these facets (along with some counter-ideological moral browbeating) and pretty much every authoritarian impulse has been bred out of right-of-center people.
I do not see this even in the center-right. An authoritarian impulse is a heightened fear of the outgroup. American conservatives tend to be fearful of immigrants and Muslims. Social conservatives want certain activities to be prohibited such as the procurement of abortion. Conservatives tends to support the US military and see those who oppose military action as being unpatriotic.

Social Justice / Social Left replaced that fixed God with an amorphous Moloch that is never satisfied until you can recite the 78 Tumblr Genders and psychically know which ones apply to all people at all times - and then it will invent a new, even crazier sin to repent from to install in your daily social interaction.
The simplest solution is to ignore the social left and not take them seriously.


However, I believe social conservatives CANNOT ignore them since for whatever reason a large portion of social conservatives derive their political identity by opposing social justice warriors. It would seem that conservatives have nothing better to do than to galvanize other conservatives by presenting the social justice warriors as serious threats.

The entire movement completely lacks empathy for its declared enemies, such that when blatant Christian bigotry is stated and then pointed out, the response is "Oh, the poor Christians! [Subtext: What about real victims without privilege of advantageous power dynamics?]" The guy who lost his factory job in Michigan twenty years ago and has been drifting from non-career to non-career ever since doesn't care that the people he sees shooting up and burning down Detroit every day have higher social value in academia than he does. To him, Academia is nothing but Communist professors and spoiled brats (and current events note: their behavior since November 9th is actively confirming this bias)!

That's his problem, and if he thinks that way, he could not identify any of his legitimate grievances. Most people in academia are not communists. In my alma mater's philosophy department, there is only one professor who could be considered a Marxist (because he referenced Toni Negri) once, but he never explicitly told me his political views, but espouses left-wing views and has an antipathy for Donald Trump. That kid doesn't even know what "communism" is if he thinks academia are communists. Actually, since he thinks that academia is full of "communist" professors, it shows that he has been brainwashed by the right rather than the left.

Ironically, one actual solution for the child's problem is Marxism. Why? Marxism focuses on the material aspects behind production and the relationship of individuals to the productive assets. Marxism does not focus on identity politics with the notable exception of trying to understand class relationships.

It is that kid's father fault, although it is not directly his fault, since he was influenced by the propaganda system of his country. The father likely does not have any class consciousness or even an understanding of what is salutary to his material interests. For instance, socially conservative blue collar workers supported the Vietnam War and regarded opposition to it to be unpatriotic (see the "hard hat riots"). Now, he should wonder how he could have potentially benefited from the war and other geopolitical stances that the State Department assumed. For instance, the fall of the Soviet Union opened up global markets markets and encouraged free trade, so he would be exposed to more economic competition through globalization. Moreover, there is no longer an incentive for the political elite to increase living standards since they no longer have to compete with the Eastern Bloc in order to win the hearts and minds of their population. He should realize those wars were largely to secure resources for a small minority of the population.

Part of cultivating that attitude in comity with imperialism requires implicit racism towards domestic minorities. It does not often manifest itself as overt hostility towards socially and economically disadvantaged and historically aggrieved minorities, but it does manifest itself as contemptuous attitudes and stereotypes. He may think of black women as undeserving "welfare queens" and black men as lazy but sexually virile and violent. He still regards them as "the other" who exert an inimical influence on society and culture and are not worthy of to be regarded as his social and economic equal.

If this assessment is incorrect, then why is there so much expressed animus and disdain towards Colin Kaepernick who eloquently articulated his stance towards police brutality and the impunity of law enforcement and do so without any violence? Kaepernick did not harm anyone, but he has earned the enmity of most people.
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
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If you don't know who Lauren Southern is by now...

Do you seriously not know who she is?

Facebook posts are only shit if they are from insignificant people.
Didn't know who she was. Wikipedia says she's sympathetic to the alt-right (not exactly reliable for race relations information) though so like, do you believe shit Alex jones posts?

Anyways I googled and found a real news source that apparently that dude did say stupid stuff (I mean honestly another 2 seconds, step it up). But 1) Facebook posts aren't news sources unless maybe posted by a journalist, if a political activist posts something you should double check it with other sources (this should be obvious). And 2) someone saying stupid things is dumb but these kids still (correctly) got charged with a hate crime.

To answer Lauren southern's question. I don't need to imagine what would happen if roles were reversed, because it literally did happen. Actually worse happened because they didn't get charged with a hate crime. The story got one run through the national news cycle (probably similar to this story) but I don't recall them releasing the name of the district attorney who completely undercharged these kids and let them off with a plea bargain. Then when I brought it up on smogon, some girl complained about how I was saying that one crime was worse cause it had a black victim, in spite of me literally never saying that.

There was however, no international outrage, no outrage at every level of government. There was apathy towards and/or ignorance of this miscarriage of justice. The fact that a Canadian political activist was complaining about the police superintendent's statement means there was more international outcry about that then there was about the 3 white kids not being jailed for a hate crime. So thanks for proving my point I guess?
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Didn't know who she was. Wikipedia says she's sympathetic to the alt-right (not exactly reliable for race relations information) though so like, do you believe shit Alex jones posts?

Anyways I googled and found a real news source that apparently that dude did say stupid stuff (I mean honestly another 2 seconds, step it up). But 1) Facebook posts aren't news sources unless maybe posted by a journalist, if a political activist posts something you should double check it with other sources (this should be obvious). And 2) someone saying stupid things is dumb but these kids still (correctly) got charged with a hate crime.

To answer Lauren southern's question. I don't need to imagine what would happen if roles were reversed, because it literally did happen. Actually worse happened because they didn't get charged with a hate crime. The story got one run through the national news cycle (probably similar to this story) but I don't recall them releasing the name of the district attorney who completely undercharged these kids and let them off with a plea bargain. Then when I brought it up on smogon, some girl complained about how I was saying that one crime was worse cause it had a black victim, in spite of me literally never saying that.

There was however, no international outrage, no outrage at every level of government. There was apathy towards and/or ignorance of this miscarriage of justice. The fact that a Canadian political activist was complaining about the police superintendent's statement means there was more international outcry about that then there was about the 3 white kids not being jailed for a hate crime. So thanks for proving my point I guess?
I agree with you that there's less international outcry for the white kid who got no jail time.
I didn't even know about that case until you mentioned it.
Could it be because it happens so often, that it isn't news anymore? (People are desensitized?)
 

shaian

you love to see it
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rebel media... lul

im sure u can do better than a garb-tier reactionary tabloid famous for captivating pieces such as:
- Meryl Streep is Retarded
- Why Whites Aren't the Most Racist People
- How the Left Pushes Pedophilia
- Does Trans-Friendly NBA Apply "Bathroom Bill" Logic Equally
- Globalist War on Tobacco (seriously)
- SJW's Target Roasts
- Study: Christian's Most Persecuted Religious Group
- Ruling Against Free Speech in Canada (a really warped view of what free speech is in Canada btw)
- Who is Really Driving UN's Anti-Tobacco Agenda
- Jennifer Lawrence's Butt Scratching Tale Triggers SJWs (my personal favourite)

basically, rebel medias just crazy trash pieces for crazy trash people.
 
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Cresselia~~

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rebel media... lul

im sure u can do better than a garb-tier reactionary tabloid famous for captivating pieces such as:
- Meryl Streep is Retarded
- Why Whites Aren't the Most Racist People
- How the Left Pushes Pedophilia
- Does Trans-Friendly NBA Apply "Bathroom Bill" Logic Equally
- Globalist War on Tobacco (seriously)
- SJW's Target Roasts
- Study: Christian's Most Persecuted Religious Group
- Ruling Against Free Speech in Canada (a really warped view of what free speech is in Canada btw)
- Who is Really Driving UN's Anti-Tobacco Agenda
- Jennifer Lawrence's Butt Scratching Tale Triggers SJWs (my personal favourite)

basically, rebel medias just crazy trash pieces for crazy trash people.
Insulting people who feel that Rebel Media is rational now, are you?

I think I know why libs are so not respected among older people.
You aren't respecting other people at all.

You claim rightists are toxic, but you are the ones with behavior problems and insulting manners towards other people.

Just because you call people trash for believing Rebel Media doesn't convert people.
Same as calling stuff "racist".

A lot of college educated Asians support Rebel Media (and Trump), fyi.

I find Lauren Southern to be way more rational than Laci Green and that Fanny, and I think people who support Lauren Southern are better behaved.

You should well know by now that insults are the worst tier of a debate.
How is Rebel Media trash?
How is Rebel Media not correct? (statistics? Logical fallacies? Studies?)
You have no arguments to support your views at all. You only know how to insult.
How am I supposed to believe that you are a clever being for not supporting Rebel Media?

Your posts are simply not rational.
 
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shaian

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if you find rebel media, a "news source" that unironically explores globalist anti-tobacco conspiracies, to be a rational source you should stop to consider the mistakes you've made in your life that got you to that point.

and no, being a college educated asian doesn't mean you can't believe and help perpetuate stupid shit.
 

Cresselia~~

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if you find rebel media, a "news source" that unironically explores globalist anti-tobacco conspiracies, to be a rational source you should stop to consider the mistakes you've made in your life that got you to that point.

and no, being a college educated asian doesn't mean you can't believe and help perpetuate stupid shit.
I'm an academically accelerated student (as in, I'm not an idiot) who believe in Rebel Media unless you can directly prove to me that it's not correct.

I give you 2 days time to disprove 5 videos from Rebel Media.
If you can't do it, then.
 
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TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
It's bizarre how treating violent beliefs and people who actively propagate violent beliefs with disdain is so looked down upon by people on the right. It's such a beautiful catch 22. "I dress up my hatred and disdain as well reasoned and factual and you respond with vitriol at my lies tsk tsk not very dignified of you."
 

shaian

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i'll gladly do it but first i need to stop to consider whether or not the need to explain to someone that that there really isn't a leftist push for pedophilia, global warming is an immediate and long-term concern, marriage equality isn't an attack on christianity, that there are reasons to get married other than to have a baby (and that you can have babies without being married), or that anti-smoking campaigns are based on health concerns and not a globalist plot to infringe upon our god-given freedom is really a worthwhile effort.

You claim rightists are toxic, but you are the ones with behavior problems and insulting manners towards other people.
i didnt claim rightists are toxic. rebel media is toxic, and people who read it and are like "this makes sense" are toxic. and im sorry, but the organization that literally has a video called "meryl streep is retarded" deserves to be made fun of and if you see that and think it has even the slightest resemblance to a credible institution than you also deserve to be made fun of.
A lot of college educated Asians support Rebel Media (and Trump), fyi.
you can be educated and still hold stupid beliefs. just because you're an engineer, doctor, lawyer, historian does not remove you from the capacity to be ignorant of things. this is an actual fact.
I find Lauren Southern to be way more rational than Laci Green and that Fanny, and I think people who support Lauren Southern are better behaved.
congratufuckinglations this has nothing to do with anything! they're also more likely to hold mildy-to above mildly racist and homophobic beliefs given that lauren southern is at the very least sympathetic to those views.

and this wasnt a debate like wtf kinda bullshit you tryna turn this in to?
 

Cresselia~~

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I give you two days time to prove why getting good grades entitles you the privilege of an automatic appeal to authority, and divests any burden of proof from your end.


see? this works both ways.
Getting good grades usually means that person is more intelligent. It's correlated.

You know, in Asia, people know their places and get sorted into places easily.

And proof: Wikipedia doesn't list Rebel Media as a conspiracy site, whilst they list Alex Jones as a conspiracy/ false news site.
 
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Cresselia~~

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i'll gladly do it but first i need to stop to consider whether or not the need to explain to someone that that there really isn't a leftist push for pedophilia, global warming is an immediate and long-term concern, marriage equality isn't an attack on christianity, that there are reasons to get married other than to have a baby (and that you can have babies without being married), or that anti-smoking campaigns are based on health concerns and not a globalist plot to infringe upon our god-given freedom is really a worthwhile effort.

i didnt claim rightists are toxic. rebel media is toxic, and people who read it and are like "this makes sense" are toxic. and im sorry, but the organization that literally has a video called "meryl streep is retarded" deserves to be made fun of and if you see that and think it has even the slightest resemblance to a credible institution than you also deserve to be made fun of.
you can be educated and still hold stupid beliefs. just because you're an engineer, doctor, lawyer, historian does not remove you from the capacity to be ignorant of things. this is an actual fact.
congratufuckinglations this has nothing to do with anything! they're also more likely to hold mildy-to above mildly racist and homophobic beliefs given that lauren southern is at the very least sympathetic to those views.

and this wasnt a debate like wtf kinda bullshit you tryna turn this in to?
I believe global warming is real and I am an environmentalist and conservationist myself.
And I support marriage equality, and think that laws should make LGBTQ people have a better life.

But I absolutely cannot agree with the whole "Make up is racist" "New ID laws are racist" "This is sexist" "That is sexist" and so on.
I think they are ridiculous and are made up.
 

Deck Knight

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I wouldn't bank on Wikipedia to be a good arbiter of "fake" vs "real" news sites.

Then again, CNN isn't on anybody's fake news site listing yet but it's been fake for years.
 

Cresselia~~

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that's fantastic, but heres your source on those topics:
- How the world was deceived about global warming and climate change
- Is gay marriage really about "revenge, sabotage" and anti-Christian bias
- a million other pieces along those lines

that's not credible journalism, that's toxic propaganda.
I know that somehow, climate change denial is linked to the right due to, you know, those people who own oil businesses affect the election a lot.
So like every rightist is going to act like climate change isn't real.
But that's one of the few things I don't agree with the right/ conservatives.

Meanwhile, I have a ton of things that I don't agree with leftists/ libs.
Like socialism. How is it not communism 2.0? How is it not overly idealistic? How is it going to work in the real world?
And like "countries should not have borders, we should just choose where to live"-- I mean obviously there are better countries and inferior countries. If there aren't borders, more than half of the global population would want to live in USA and Europe, and probably less than 10% would like to live in Africa.
Also, all these "this and that are racist" "this and that are actually sexist" are so made up.

It's rather bad how USA lacks a strong enough 3rd party.
It only swings between 2 extremes over and over again.
I just think it isn't quite healthy for a country to go on like this.

You need a party to represent centralist people.
Like, if I were American, I would have voted for Obama, but I would have also voted for Trump. Because there's not a strong enough 3rd party for people to vote.
 
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