I don't have a type VRs though, please don't unleash Chi-yu upon me o great one.
Also damn, Ice that high. Any Major reason for that other than Chien-pao?
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Other Pre-DLC SV Monotype Metagame Discussion
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Also damn, Ice that high. Any Major reason for that other than Chien-pao?
Chien-Pao with Baxcalibur makes it surprisingly decent. Ice is a shit defensive typing but an incredible offensive typing so usually if it gets good Pokémon it can work; see Alolan Ninetales, Z-moves, and both forms of Kyurem in past generations.
S:
S: Flying Dark Fairy
A: Steel Water Ground Dragon Poison
B: Ghost Ice Fire Fighting Normal Psychic Electric
C: Grass Bug Rock
@everyone post your type VRs or I, the most powerful man in Monotype, will unleash the wrath of Chi-yu (balanced Pokémon) on your tier
A: Water Dark Flying Fairy Steel
B: Ground Ghost Fighting Dragon Poison
C: Electric, Psychic, Fire, Bug
D: Ice, Normal, Grass, Rock
No type truly feels like an s rank to me right now, all the A and B types are just fine. That being said if I had to choose an S rank its a toss up between Water because of its ability to at minimum neutral fish a wide range of good types, Dark for its overwhelming pressure vs like everything, or Flying just for its versatility. Moreso inclined to lean Water or Dark but regardless I think I'm satisfied without an S rank.
It's defs an underrated type which can fill the role of pretty decent anti meta. Don't think that's enough to justify it being B (it's not), ultimately it seems like a tour type with a few autoloss matches, and imo is a bit less functional than Gen 8 Ice. I mostly attribute Mush putting Ice in B and Bug in D to Washed Player Syndrome and I'll say nothing more on the subject.
S: Flying,
Everything Between S And C: Steel, Water, Poison, Dark, Fairy, Dragon, Ghost, Fighting, Ground
C: Normal, Psychic, Fire, Ice, Bug, Electric
D: Rock, Grass
I was going to post a type VR but i want chi yu free
S: Flying Dark Fairy
A: Steel Water Ground Dragon Poison
B: Ghost Ice Fire Fighting Normal Psychic Electric
C: Grass Bug Rock
@everyone post your type VRs or I, the most powerful man in Monotype, will unleash the wrath of Chi-yu (balanced Pokémon) on your tier
I'm finally getting into the SV meta after about a yearish away from mons in general, and I've been really enjoying it. This gen is panning out to be one of the best and one of my favorites. I've played about a couple hundred ladder games post home over the last few weeks or so.
Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but what do we think of Fire? I've built both sun and non sun variants and have had good turnouts against some of the scary types and mons that are most commonly discussed here. Both variants give you a really favorable matchup against dark, steel and poison just because of how many weapons you have against those types major threats, 3 top tier types in my opinion. Sun fire gives you at least a slight fighting chance against water through the 2 Volcs and Scovillain, especially with Toxapex being reduced this gen. The type definitely struggles against flying, specifically band dnite/scarf lando variants, and I haven't really found a way to tackle that matchup. Ground can also quickly become a troubling matchup depending on team comp. I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks if they've even considered giving the type a look, hopefully we will see it used as a counter pick a little bit more as the MPL playoff race is under full swing now.
Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but what do we think of Fire? I've built both sun and non sun variants and have had good turnouts against some of the scary types and mons that are most commonly discussed here. Both variants give you a really favorable matchup against dark, steel and poison just because of how many weapons you have against those types major threats, 3 top tier types in my opinion. Sun fire gives you at least a slight fighting chance against water through the 2 Volcs and Scovillain, especially with Toxapex being reduced this gen. The type definitely struggles against flying, specifically band dnite/scarf lando variants, and I haven't really found a way to tackle that matchup. Ground can also quickly become a troubling matchup depending on team comp. I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks if they've even considered giving the type a look, hopefully we will see it used as a counter pick a little bit more as the MPL playoff race is under full swing now.
Walking wake screws you up, sun, rain, or weatherless.
Don't think the autoloss to wake is too important in a tournament setting, most waters haven't been carrying it and we even saw a dragon without it, not to mention you're probs using fire for other matchups.
In my experience Sun Fire can break through flying. Well timed Ceruledge, especially in Sun, can be hard to answer. I'll also say that Will o Volc is always nice vs. the Flying matchup. I wouldn't say I'd gone too in depth yet but I definitely think there's more potential to be explored with Fire.
Something like this I was trying before. https://pokepast.es/053e30a5bbfd2d95
Fire this generation is an interesting type. I only really played Fire in the pre-HOME era, but I do play it here and there nowadays. Flying doesn't seem to be an issue if you're running sun - perhaps running Rotom-Heat could ameliorate that issue, seeing as Dragonite is scared of losing Multiscale and Lando-T does not want to take Sun-boosted Overheat. Ground can be a troubling matchup without one of the Fire/Flyings or Rotom-Heat, but if one of those are on your team then it should be decent. I hope for a Fire resurgence.
resurgence is actually fairly simple. Do a shamu said, bring chi-yu back.
Yeah I second that on the wake statement. Anyways that sun fire looks pretty similar to one of my first builds, but something I've been experimenting with lately is this Torkoal set:
Torkoal @ Eject Pack
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Overheat
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Clear Smog
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Overheat
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Clear Smog
Not anything revolutionary, but being able to pivot out with a sun boosted Overheat and get Scovillain or Ceruledge in for practically free is worth the sacrifice of sun turns if it means you're claiming 3 or 4 with them. Torkoal is bulky enough to be brought back in, or at least sacked, later should you need more sun. Pair it up with Heattom as your other pivot and the team functions pretty well imo. Obviously the downsides are getting your own hazards up at some point and keeping opposing ones away, but you output so much damage in the sun that I wouldn't consider it a major concern.
As the person who made the Fire sample team (it's really good, you should use it!) and used fire for a decent amount this gen, I'll put my thoughts here.
Fire's a fine mid-tier type with a lot of good matchups (IMO flying/steel/poison/dark/fairy/fighting are all positive mus for fire (or at least they are for the sample)), but it suffers from two main problems:
1. It tends to lose at team preview, and doesn't win at team preview
- To elaborate: Fire has very bad MUs (which are near autoloss territory imo) against Water, Ground, and Dragon; meanwhile the only type I would consider an autowin for Fire is the rarely seen Grass; all other types have a lot of counterplay--for example, Ice can out-offense it, Steel has heatran + Kingambit, and Bug has Kleavor which can 6-0 if played well. This means that although you'll often get a good matchup with Fire, it's usually a 60/40 or 55/45 matchup, meanwhile when you do get a bad matchup it's something like 10-90 territory.
2. It tends to be suspectable to "hax" due to reliance on inaccurate moves like Head Smash, High Jump Kick, Pyro ball, Gunk Shot, Fire Blast, Steam Eruption, etc. I brought Fire to MLT and got owned by RNG against Arch (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9monotype-1896425911-eigr6qmy8omg89utpzq8h2d5si0lwyepw), and this was definitely not the first time I've lost to RNG when using fire.
These two factors combined mean that using Fire for something like voting reqs is something I would definitely not recommend (between losing games to preview and losing games to hax, good luck getting 82 GXE LOL--yes, I speak from experience (see FMSG9 overheat)), but fire's a fine type to bring to tour as long as you're very, very sure your opponent isn't using water/ground/dragon, but I wouldn't bring it otherwise (unless I was facing someone like Trich and I was absolutely desperate for a positive matchup) because the "good" matchups aren't good enough to risk autolosses for IMO.
I love the innovation and I hate to be a party pooper, but quite frankly Eject Pack is just not that good of an item. I experimented with Eject pack last gen on TR chandulure (set up Trick room, use overheat and get a kill and a free switch into your breaker of choice!), and while it was hilarious when it worked, Eject Pack is terribly inconsistent, mainly because it doesn't just activate on Overheat: it also activates on Intimidate from gyra/lando-T, from rock tomb from sash loom, and even drops from Moonblast/Shadow ball/etc. Because of this inconsistency, I would only recommend using Eject Pack when there is a super large payoff, and IMO the payoff here isn't worth the risk when Heat Rock is a perfectly fine alternative.
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Raging Bolt (Paradox Raikou) Electric/Dragon (Protosynthesis)
- Thunderclap (Electric): Strikes before a target's attack -- Electric Sucker Punch
- Tachyon Cutter (Steel, special): Guaranteed to hit twice in a row, cannot miss
- Psychic Noise (Psychic): deals damage and prevents target from healing
- Upper Hand (Fighting): strikes before. a target's priority move, flinching
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Huh, I thought Thunderclap was just a standard Electric priority move on par with something like Bullet punch or Vaccum Wave. Electric sucker punch is going to be interesting.
Also please keep Psychic Noise away from my Poison team please and thank you.
Also please keep Psychic Noise away from my Poison team please and thank you.
TheRealBigC
I COULD BE BANNED!
Thunderclap kinda huge but it also implies Raging Bolt might be pretty slow
Tachyon Cutter will probably be a good STAB if it has like 50 BP but Iron Crown will despise Zapdos, Moltres, Chomp etc. Iron Crown will still be a good pick for Psychic teams at least if it has a good stat spread and movepool, but can't see it being particularly amazing
Psychic Noise and Upper Hand seem too niche for singles, maybe Psychic Noise will see use if it has like 80 BP to help beat stuff like Corv and Clod but I'd be surprised if it's that strong
The literally nobody who thought that Sucker Punch mindgames were fun is absolutely feasting right now.
ADD: also I hope Psychic Noise gets wide distribution because screw Toxapex.
ADD: also I hope Psychic Noise gets wide distribution because screw Toxapex.
OK, since everyone's talking about the DLC, guess I'll jump on the bandwagon. Here are some notable returning mons and how I think they'll change things up.
Alolan Ninetales - a much better Snow setter than Abomasnow due to its better Speed it has an easier time setting up Aurora Veil. Snow is a nice upgrade over Hail, since it helps patch up its bad physical bulk. Might see some niche use on Fairy if they want to keep Klefki for Spikes.
Clefable - great, gives Fairy a strong Stealth Rock setter, can also be a nice late game bulky sweeper with Calm Mind. Doesn't miss Softboiled too much, as it had its PP cut anyway and it still has Moonlight.
Snorlax - nice bulky wincon for Normal which doesn't have many good set up sweepers at the moment. Hates that Fighting is actually good now though.
Yanmega - I think it'll be a niche choice on both types it's allowed on, but could serve as a nice late game wincon with Speed Boost. I don't think Tinted Lens sets will be very good on either type, as both types have superior wallbreakers.
Gliscor - Oh yeah, now we're talking. Misses Toxic, Roost and Defog, but Poison Heal + Protect still gives it great longevity. Gives Flying a Rock neutrality and Electric resist, gives Ground a Grass neutrality. I think a Stealth Rock set will be best on Flying, while a Taunt + Swords Dance set will work best on Ground.
Crawdaunt - Between Crabhammer, Knock Off and Close Combat, Azumarill is pretty much the only Pokemon that can safely switch into this thing. Great teammate for Kingambit on Dark since it can shred the Fire types it hates. Might be tough to fit in on Water though.
Mandibuzz - rejoice Dark teams, you now have hazard control! There goes one of the few weaknesses of Dark (is this the best Dark has ever been?). Flying teams can make use of it too, as it frees Corviknight up to run its Bulk Up set, or lets you use Skarmory to set up Spikes.
Vikavolt - Bug now gets a Sticky Web setter that doesn't suck balls! It could also help out in the Flying matchup, since other than the Ground/Flyings nothing on that type wants to switch into it. Like Gliscor it really misses Roost though. Might see some use on Electric, though they don't really need Webs.
Clefable - great, gives Fairy a strong Stealth Rock setter, can also be a nice late game bulky sweeper with Calm Mind. Doesn't miss Softboiled too much, as it had its PP cut anyway and it still has Moonlight.
Snorlax - nice bulky wincon for Normal which doesn't have many good set up sweepers at the moment. Hates that Fighting is actually good now though.
Yanmega - I think it'll be a niche choice on both types it's allowed on, but could serve as a nice late game wincon with Speed Boost. I don't think Tinted Lens sets will be very good on either type, as both types have superior wallbreakers.
Gliscor - Oh yeah, now we're talking. Misses Toxic, Roost and Defog, but Poison Heal + Protect still gives it great longevity. Gives Flying a Rock neutrality and Electric resist, gives Ground a Grass neutrality. I think a Stealth Rock set will be best on Flying, while a Taunt + Swords Dance set will work best on Ground.
Crawdaunt - Between Crabhammer, Knock Off and Close Combat, Azumarill is pretty much the only Pokemon that can safely switch into this thing. Great teammate for Kingambit on Dark since it can shred the Fire types it hates. Might be tough to fit in on Water though.
Mandibuzz - rejoice Dark teams, you now have hazard control! There goes one of the few weaknesses of Dark (is this the best Dark has ever been?). Flying teams can make use of it too, as it frees Corviknight up to run its Bulk Up set, or lets you use Skarmory to set up Spikes.
Vikavolt - Bug now gets a Sticky Web setter that doesn't suck balls! It could also help out in the Flying matchup, since other than the Ground/Flyings nothing on that type wants to switch into it. Like Gliscor it really misses Roost though. Might see some use on Electric, though they don't really need Webs.
Snowslash - can't see it being used on Steel, but on Ice it could be a nice addition to snow based teams. While Cetitan offers more Speed and power, Snowslash's secondary Steel typing makes it neutral to Stealth Rock and more importantly, Scizor's Bullet Punch. With the defence boost of Snow, it could be very hard to revenge kill with physical priority.
Skarmory - While I do think Corviknight is a more consistent wall on both types, Skarmory has an edge in being able to set Stealth Rock and Spikes, thus freeing up slots on your team.
Smeargle - If you want to run Sticky Web hyper offensive Normal, now you can. Sticky Web, Nuzzle, Taunt, Parting Shot / U-turn imo will be its best set, maybe Lunar Dance if you want to give a teammate another go.
Blaziken - Can't see this thing staying unbanned to be honest, if it does by some miracle it'll be S rank on both types.
Mamoswine - On Ground it helps out in the Flying matchup, as only Corviknight, Skarmory and bulky Moltres can switch into its Ice moves (even then Moltres has to watch out for Stone Edge). On Ice it can shatter the bulky Poison core of Amoonguss, Glowking, Toxapex. It can also set up Rocks for Ice teams, freeing up a slot on Avalugg and Snowlash.
Metagross - Don't think Steel will bother with it much, but on Psychic it gives them a reliable hazard setter, a strong physical attacker and some physical bulk, all of which they have very few of. SR 3 + 3 attacks or Choice Band will be the go to sets imo.
Shaymin - Not sure if this will be any good, I think 3 attacks + Healing Wish will be the go to set. Earth Power, Psychic and Air Slash all help out against the Steel, Poison and Bug matchups respectively, all of which Grass struggles with.
Serperior -Losing Hidden Power was a massive blow, it has pretty much no coverage now.
Reuniclus - Faces stiff competition from Espathra as a Clam Mind + Stored Power mon, but Reun's niche comes from Magic Guard and its superior bulk. You could even try a Trick Room + 3 attacks set to sweep opposing hyper offensive teams.
Skarmory - While I do think Corviknight is a more consistent wall on both types, Skarmory has an edge in being able to set Stealth Rock and Spikes, thus freeing up slots on your team.
Smeargle - If you want to run Sticky Web hyper offensive Normal, now you can. Sticky Web, Nuzzle, Taunt, Parting Shot / U-turn imo will be its best set, maybe Lunar Dance if you want to give a teammate another go.
Blaziken - Can't see this thing staying unbanned to be honest, if it does by some miracle it'll be S rank on both types.
Mamoswine - On Ground it helps out in the Flying matchup, as only Corviknight, Skarmory and bulky Moltres can switch into its Ice moves (even then Moltres has to watch out for Stone Edge). On Ice it can shatter the bulky Poison core of Amoonguss, Glowking, Toxapex. It can also set up Rocks for Ice teams, freeing up a slot on Avalugg and Snowlash.
Metagross - Don't think Steel will bother with it much, but on Psychic it gives them a reliable hazard setter, a strong physical attacker and some physical bulk, all of which they have very few of. SR 3 + 3 attacks or Choice Band will be the go to sets imo.
Shaymin - Not sure if this will be any good, I think 3 attacks + Healing Wish will be the go to set. Earth Power, Psychic and Air Slash all help out against the Steel, Poison and Bug matchups respectively, all of which Grass struggles with.
Serperior -Losing Hidden Power was a massive blow, it has pretty much no coverage now.
Reuniclus - Faces stiff competition from Espathra as a Clam Mind + Stored Power mon, but Reun's niche comes from Magic Guard and its superior bulk. You could even try a Trick Room + 3 attacks set to sweep opposing hyper offensive teams.
Dragon fans stay winning! Raging Bolt should be fun (although its probably going to be slow by the looks of it). Archaludon is going to really good with IronPress sets, especially since it gets Stamina and a pretty solid defensive typing in Steel/Dragon. Eviolte Duraludon meant be a better defensive option, but we'll just have to wait till the stats come out. And unless Dripplin has above 90 speed, he'll be just as irrelevant as the other Applin line.
Oh, and Iron Crown is a thing. Just looks like Metagross 2.0 to me. It might by a decent scarfer on Steel to help with the Fighting MU but overall, its just a robot Cobalion. Lame.
Oh, and Iron Crown is a thing. Just looks like Metagross 2.0 to me. It might by a decent scarfer on Steel to help with the Fighting MU but overall, its just a robot Cobalion. Lame.
It doesn't matter if it gets a wide distribution or not. Mono has no tera and Toxapex is screwed by Psychic attacks anyway.
if psychic noice blocks regenerator, poison is gutted. If not, poison will still be worse because gardevoir learns the move and it's not part of base learnset so the move is either a tutor move or a TM meaning a lot of pokemon will get the move.
actually, psychic noise screwed the entirety of poison, I can see physical psychic types running this solely to screw open pex and clod etc.
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A physical Psychic-type should not have difficulty opening up Clod.
Well the only real thought is that Heal block didn't block regenerator for the three generations they shared together and that is this moves closest comparison so I think Regen will be safe.
I also don't think it will be distribution will be quiet as high as Psychic/Psyshock since I don't see something like Flutter mane getting this.
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