Lower Tiers PU Viability Rankings

Shelgon from Unlisted to D

Shelgon is a surprisingly decent pokemon thanks to eviolite its massive Defence stat and usable Hp (65/100/50). This makes it a decent physical wall.
Calcs
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Shelgon: 118-139 (35.4 - 41.7%)

252+ Atk Machoke Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Shelgon: 87-103 (26.1 - 30.9%) Without Eviolite (38.7 - 45.9%)

+2 252+ Atk Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Shelgon: 148-175 (44.4 - 52.5%)

Something Shelgon has over other Dragon-Types (Zweilous, Gabite, Vibrava) is Wish. While its Hp wont get Big wishes onto its allies it is still a valuable support move which can be very clutch especially late game for your team and a decent recovery move for Shelgon.
 
Arbok from B+ to A-
Mr. Mime from B+ to A-
Pidgeot from D to E

Huge update, I know. I moved Pidgeot to E because it just doesn't have a niche. Also, I'd like to see discussion on Shelgon, particularly if its tiny Wishes make it worth using over the many more useful comparable Pokemon in the tier.
 

Raiza

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There's not much to talk about Shelgon, I'd like to see it ranked anyway, I don't mind the rank, I could see it in E too, but it has two niches that can make it usable over other walls / Dragon-types, which are enough to put in D in my opinion(not like we're talking about higher ups, it's D lol, still really mediocre). The first niche is its access to Wish, which make it a decent support for teammates and give it an ok recovery. I don't think its Wishes are tiny after all, running Wish implies you are using a defensive set, and Shelgon's HP are actually ok if invested. Second niche is high defense, which is actually very solid along with an Eviolite and Dragon-typing, and make it an ok stop to the plenty physical attackers in PU right now, some examples include Choice Band Dodrio(doesn't even 2HKO with Brave Bird lol, but Knock Off kinda cripples it), Jumpluff, Rapidash, Mightyena and others. Also it carries decent attack even if uninvested so it isn't necessarily set up fodder. Shelgon of course still carries plenty of flaws, such as being very weak to statuses, entry hazards especially Toxic Spikes, and that's why it would be ranked so low anyway, but in my opinion it is D worthy.
 
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Deej Dy

Verified Ladder Scurb 乁( ◔ ౪◔)ㄏ


I'd like to nominate Staryu for D rank because of its pretty solid and defined role as a naturally fast spinner (85 base speed) with access to recovery and status removal (Natural Cure). It can preform as both a speedy spinner with Max HP and Speed invested or a Bulky Spinner with Max HP and Defensive to easily tank Piloswine/Golem's EQ's while preventing their rocks.
Unlike most other hazard removers in the tier Staryu isn't weak to Stealth rock, but unlike its rival Wartortle it has both recovery and speed.
The Set I currently use is:

Staryu @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Toxic

This set has enough speed to outspeed Adamant Pawniard, among other threats. You can add more Speed EV's to out-speed Taunt Misdreavus if you wish to get off a Toxic before it is able to Taunt.
 
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What pokemon can you compare Shelgon to? for Dragon types each have a different role

Zweilous-Spdef Phazer
Vibrava-Hazard Remover
Fraxure-D-dance sweeper
Gabite-Offensive SR setter
Shelgon is used differently to each of these mons

while Vibrava and Zweilous are used more defensively then others Shelgon is physically defensive and checks Machoke which Zweilous and Vibrava don't do. Also they focus on self-healing (Rest/talk+Roost) while Wish is more about keeping everyone healthy.

As a Wish passer in general the prominent Wish users (Hypno and Licki) are put in Specially defensive roles and have different typing. Pure dragon typing is amazing resistance wise and its weaknesses are easily stopped with a Steel type partner

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are highly mediocre in the PU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it. These Pokemon exert a poor presence in the metagame.

Unique in many ways Shelgon is definitely viable ranked here considering this text for D rank
 


I'd like to nominate Staryu for D rank because of its pretty solid and defined role as a naturally fast spinner (85 base speed) with access to recovery and status removal (Natural Cure). It can preform as both a speedy spinner with Max HP and Speed invested or a Bulky Spinner with Max HP and Defensive to easily tank Piloswine/Golem's EQ's while preventing their rocks.
Unlike most other hazard removers in the tier Staryu isn't weak to Stealth rock, but unlike its rival Wartortle it has both recovery and speed.
The Set I currently use is:

Staryu @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Toxic

This set has enough speed to outspeed Adamant Pawniard, among other threats. You can add more Speed EV's to out-speed Taunt Misdreavus if you wish to get off a Toxic before it is able to Taunt.
Lol. Literally just nommed this. Same example set and everything.

Shelgon from Unlisted to D

Shelgon is a surprisingly decent pokemon thanks to eviolite its massive Defence stat and usable Hp (65/100/50). This makes it a decent physical wall.
Calcs
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Shelgon: 118-139 (35.4 - 41.7%)

252+ Atk Machoke Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Shelgon: 87-103 (26.1 - 30.9%) Without Eviolite (38.7 - 45.9%)

+2 252+ Atk Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Shelgon: 148-175 (44.4 - 52.5%)

Something Shelgon has over other Dragon-Types (Zweilous, Gabite, Vibrava) is Wish. While its Hp wont get Big wishes onto its allies it is still a valuable support move which can be very clutch especially late game for your team and a decent recovery move for Shelgon.
Shelgon's problem is that, while its physical bulk is cool, it just sits there. If it toxic's on cb stout, it gets 3hkod. Barbaracle just sets up more shell smashes. IMO wishing and being a physical blob don't justify enough of a niche.

EDIT: MaroGod if you want a pdef wish passer that doesn't suck, try Leafeon. It has actual offensive presence, better speed, and the ability to hold leftovers, which means that it takes hits similarly well:

252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Shelgon: 84-100 (25.1 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Leafeon: 105-124 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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Shelgon's problem is that, while its physical bulk is cool, it just sits there. If it toxic's on cb stout, it gets 3hkod. Barbaracle just sets up more shell smashes. IMO wishing and being a physical blob don't justify enough of a niche.
It gets access to roar and has a usable base 95 attack. STAB dragon claw does good damage even univested
 
It gets access to roar and has a usable base 95 attack. STAB dragon claw does good damage even univested
Yeah, but leafeon has roar, 110 attack, better speed, and a stronger stab move. :/
Plus, if the set you're recommending is
Shelgon @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Dragon Claw
- Roar
then you can't do anything at all against cb stout, which is something that you said this counters.
Sorry man, not trying to hate or anything, but shelgon seems pretty ass.
 

Raiza

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World Defender
You didn't really get the point or misunderstanded something. People are aware that Shelgon seems bad, reason why no one asked for C rank or higher. Just saying that Shelgon is deserving of the D rank for reasons I stated countless times in this thread, so I suggest you go look at them. Leafeon's typing is total bollocks compared to Shelgon's, as it gives it plenty of weakness, preventing it to perform defensive sets without being underwhelming most of the time, so that's already one niche Shelgon has over Leafeon. I don't get how Shelgon can't do anything against Choice Band Stoutland, which first of all is a wallbreaker, so it would be reasonable even if it was able to break through it, but man, Return does like 40% max damage, so Shelgon can just switch on it and recover the damage up with Wish-Protect combination, while Dragon Claw still deals decent damage, or in the worst case scenario, just Wish and pass it to something remotely bulky such as Torterra, allowing it to revengekill Stoutland without losing a Pokemon at all.
 
Yeah, but leafeon has roar, 110 attack, better speed, and a stronger stab move. :/
Plus, if the set you're recommending is
Shelgon @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat (Rock Head)
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Dragon Claw
- Roar
then you can't do anything at all against cb stout, which is something that you said this counters.
Sorry man, not trying to hate or anything, but shelgon seems pretty ass.
Cant use Overcoat and Wish together
 
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You didn't really get the point or misunderstanded something. People are aware that Shelgon seems bad, reason why no one asked for C rank or higher. Just saying that Shelgon is deserving of the D rank for reasons I stated countless times in this thread, so I suggest you go look at them. Leafeon's typing is total bollocks compared to Shelgon's, as it gives it plenty of weakness, preventing it to perform defensive sets without being underwhelming most of the time, so that's already one niche Shelgon has over Leafeon. I don't get how Shelgon can't do anything against Choice Band Stoutland, which first of all is a wallbreaker, so it would be reasonable even if it was able to break through it, but man, Return does like 40% max damage, so Shelgon can just switch on it and recover the damage up with Wish-Protect combination, while Dragon Claw still deals decent damage, or in the worst case scenario, just Wish and pass it to something remotely bulky such as Torterra, allowing it to revengekill Stoutland without losing a Pokemon at all.
Tbf I'm really just using leafeon as comparison to sheglon. And yeah, leafeon has slightly worse defensive typing (trades fairy weak for bug/poison/fire, of which only fire is really relevant). It also trades fire resist for a ground resist, which is whatever. But, you're right, dragon > grass.
Shelgon doesn't do anything to cb stout. Seriously. They just sit in front of each other, wishtecting and spamming return, waiting for crits.
Is shelgon's ability to blob in front of things really worth even D rank? Like, electrode is a really fast rain setter than doesn't sap momentum because of an ok hitting volt switch. Kricketune is kinda niche in taunt + webs + endeavor, which works against slow mons and stuff. Gastly is sort of like haunter used to be, except worse. Frillish hardstops all poli sets. Natu is the only mon in the tier that has magic bounce. I just seriously don't see how shelgon places amongst this stuff. Do you have any replays where he does useful things? That would be sweet!

Cant use Overcoat and Wish together
Cool, this literally just makes shelgon worse because it's now setup fodder for jumpluff.
 
Tbf I'm really just using leafeon as comparison to sheglon. And yeah, leafeon has slightly worse defensive typing (trades fairy weak for bug/poison/fire, of which only fire is really relevant). It also trades fire resist for a ground resist, which is whatever. But, you're right, dragon > grass.
Shelgon doesn't do anything to cb stout. Seriously. They just sit in front of each other, wishtecting and spamming return, waiting for crits.
Is shelgon's ability to blob in front of things really worth even D rank? Like, electrode is a really fast rain setter than doesn't sap momentum because of an ok hitting volt switch. Kricketune is kinda niche in taunt + webs + endeavor, which works against slow mons and stuff. Gastly is sort of like haunter used to be, except worse. Frillish hardstops all poli sets. Natu is the only mon in the tier that has magic bounce. I just seriously don't see how shelgon places amongst this stuff. Do you have any replays where he does useful things? That would be sweet!



Cool, this literally just makes shelgon worse because it's now setup fodder for jumpluff.
You keep missing the point though. Shelgon isnt great thats why i nommed for D and its not a blob that cant do anything

Its good defensive capabilities is why i nommed it if i thought it was better i would of gone higher but i know it has many flaws

Its got a decent phasing move and can wittle with Dragon Claw also its not set-up fodder for pluff
 

MZ

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After testing Staryu, it doesnt need to get ranked. It doesnt do things other spinners cant and it doesnt perform better than anything else. It has a niche, yes, but the niche of hazard control with recovery is massively overstated and I don't think there's anything else to say about it. After testing offensive, I found it similarly flawed in just not performing well at all. I was initially in favor but it's really garbage and that's about it.
 
What about Torkoal from C+ to B-?

It has great bulk on the physical side and is a good answer to Jumpluff among many other physical attackers. It's also one of few pokemon in this tier that can use Rapid Spin. I haven't used Shell Smash on it yet but I'm doubtful it's any better than the tanky set due to it's awful speed. I feel like Rapid Spin + Lava Plume + EQ/Earth Power are really great options for this thing. If only it had a recovery move...
 
What about Torkoal from C+ to B-?

It has great bulk on the physical side and is a good answer to Jumpluff among many other physical attackers. It's also one of few pokemon in this tier that can use Rapid Spin. I haven't used Shell Smash on it yet but I'm doubtful it's any better than the tanky set due to it's awful speed. I feel like Rapid Spin + Lava Plume + EQ/Earth Power are really great options for this thing. If only it had a recovery move...
I personally don't think torkoal warrants a raise. A spinner weak to Stealth Rock and Vulnerable to Spikes often spells trouble, not to mention it has quite a huge problem against many of the relevant rockers in the tier. Most of them are part ground or part rock type meaning its spin opportunities to spin.
I think, in order to make the most effect from Torkoal, you have to run the ss + fblast set to beat Misdreavus or Dusknoir the two most common spinblockers that would (Especially in Misdreavus case) spinblock with little to no loss. A +2 Fire Blast to the Face means Torkoal can beat the spinblockers and spin whenever opportunity arises.
But the likelyhood of that happening is very small due to its subpar typing and speed.
 

Anty

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Uh mime and arbok to a- wtf have you guys done here ;) (and no megazard/fagtron/whoever im not saying i disapprove)

Seriously though, i do see how hard it is to tell what is a- and b+ due to how similar the mons in each rank here (this is directed at pelipper if any mon). There are great mons in both ranks and no objective split near the top of both (for example i would say vigoroth is better than ones like mime and rotom), which is why we have ended up with such a big a- rank. I think we should be a bit stricter in a- to avoid the cluttering, but since this is such a big thing to do im not going to go into detail with what deserves what here. I will mention that pelipper should definitely not be in a- rank, as although it provides great support, it can be quite underwhelming as a wall. Stealth Rock means that it is a lot harder for pelipper to switch into check things and it is often forced into switching in on it as it is the way to remove them and it cannot switch into most rock setters. A huge issue with this is that it means it is often forced into roosting, for example:
252+ Atk Machoke Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 70-83 (21.6 - 25.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
A mon it usually walls brings it down to half on switch in, meaning the machoke gets momentum as pelipper is forced to roost. It is also a shaky check to a lot which it is meant to check from teddeh's list:
The phdef set can wall most of those pokes listed other than pawn, which can SD on switch then SD again (or KO after one SD w/ a little chip + rocks), but the sdef set can hardly switch into any of the mons listed as ninetales 2hko's after NP'ing on switch, simisear 2hko's w/ rock slide, simisage has been talked about already, and floatzel runs hp electric (yeah ik prediction war @_@). They all force it to roost p much which severely limits peli's ability to actually do anything other than get warn down.

Gogoat to B
Gogoat has been underrated in general (+ amazing players say things like 'gogoat is bad'), and it has enjoyed recent meta shifts (fall in tales/etc). Gogoat has amazing special bulk to the point roselia's sludge bomb fails to 2HKO meaning it can set up on many pokes like zebby/wrath/etc and after a few bulk ups it can tank physical hits as well. It works basically like other slow sweepers (vigoroth/duosion) but isnt as crippled by knock off and has a different typing, but it is weaker to status which is why i think it should be a rank below them, and same rank as klang seems alright as that has flaws like reliance on rest + mono steel coverage.

I have used both staryu and shelgon and they are both underwhelming af and i dont think even deserve e rank mainly to do with it being passive and forced to recover/easily pressured making it hard to spin (it is worse than wortortle which imo is e). Shelgon is a mediocre choice on any team as even if calcs show it can seemingly switch in on stoutland and wishtect, that doesnt mean it is good as not only is it warn down by hazards but it is also passive af, especcially due to wish having an extra turn. For example, you are down to just over half by switching into stoutland, so you wish, but your op then switches into fraxure or w/e and heavily pressure you with a chance of dragon dancing (this happens with other mons like vigoroth/roselia/clef). I also dont see a situation where you would actually want to use shelgon; it is a shaky chounter to stoutland (has to be at full if rocks are up and w/ spikes it is going down), i dunno why dundies mentioned two knock off grass types, then others like rapidash arent threatening to defensive teams, and shelgon is a p bad wish passer due to low hp + having to use the wishes for itself.
 

ManOfMany

I can make anything real
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Seviper to C-

Seviper is outclassed by most other special attackers, but it's ability to beat ClefTang is nice, and it more or less has no counters outside of Lickilicky. As a pure wallbreaker, it does just fine, so it should be enough for C-, and certainly is at least as useful as Wigglytuff or Cherrim.



Lampent to E
What does this do? Check fire-types? No, it can't because Ninetales runs either Dark Pulse or HP Ground most of the time, and Rapidash runs Drill Run. Great Wallbreaker? Not really, because 95 SpA isn't so threatening especially when you have to hold an eviolite. Sweeper with Sub CM? Ninetales, Misdreavus, and even Drifblim outclass it in the sweeper role almost entirely. Trick Room? Missy and Dusknoir both learn it. Status Spreader? Nearly all ghost and fire-types learn Will-o-wisp, Lampent certainly isn't unique in this aspect. There's just really no reason to use Lampent- not only does it lack a niche, it doesn't do anything well either.



Linoone to B+
This pokemon is ridiculously underused as it gets a reputation of being a "noob" pokemon; however it is actually a very threatening sweeper, and simply having it on the field changes the entire mindset of the match for your advantage. First of all, it gets much more set-up opportunities than you would expect. It sets up on Scarf Mime, on Zebstrika before and after Overheat, on Roselia without Sleep Powder, on Kadabra without T-wave, on Leftovers Ninetales, on Mightyena, on Simisage after Leaf Storm, on Rotom-F locked into Blizzard, on Duosion, on Mono-Knock off Lickilicky, on Scarf Sawsbuck, and more. Meanwhile, the amount of actual counters it has are few in comparison- Tangela, Probopass, Avalugg, Klang. (Keep in mind that Tangela can be bypassed by Gunk Shot). Pawniard may seem troubling but takes >75% from E-speed, therefore a Rocky Helmet pokemon can easily get it out of the way. However, a smart player can find even more opportunities to set-up with very well played sacks. For example, sacking an intimidate Arbok onto a Torterra suddenly turns Torterra into set-up bait. Or sacking your low-health Grumpig into a Lickilicky's Knock Off suddenly lets Linoone set-up on Lickilicky even though the opponent never intended to stay in. A smartly-timed Encore from Kadabra or Jumpluff can also be extremely useful- for example, encoring a Stunfisk into Earth Power and letting it kill you. Kadabra also has a very unique move called Safeguard that can be used before sacking it to a Status-User like Clefairy or Gourgeist- turning them into set-up bait. The Linoone user always has the mental advantage and can turn around the battle easily at any point. Even when Linoone doesn't get a chance to sweep it is still putting in work. It changes the entire tempo of the battle, forcing the opponent to constantly play offensive and not send in passive pokemon, preventing them from using Scarf users and moves that lower Special Attack, and constantly putting pressure on them not to use their few Linoone counters. And the final perk of Linoone- it is an amazing Pseudo-Pursuit trapper: What I mean by this is that it can pick off any offensive pokemon with <50% health with Extreme Speed, however, the pokemon cannot switch out, because then it would give Linoone a free turn to Belly Drum.



Diglett to D
I want this ranked for this set, because it is such an incredible partner to Linoone. It basically can trap, outspeed and Memento any faster pokemon and render them set-up bait for Linoone (Ursaring, Rapidash, Stoutland, Simipour, etc) It also eliminates Probopass. If Natu can be ranked in D solely for being a necessity to Shedinja, than this should be ranked as well for being the best partner to Linoone and basically guaranteeing it a win against offense.

Diglett @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Memento
- Filler
- Filler
 

Raiza

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I think a rise to B is more fitting than one to B+, regarding Linoone. I agree for the most part in what you said, but Linoone still requires a lot of team support to succeed, and it kind of relies on match up to put in work, in fact if it doesn't manage to set up it is really underwhelming because of its bad base Attack without having set up first. Also most of your supposed calcs of situations where Linoone could set up are made null if Linoone switches on a layer of Spikes or on Stealth Rock, and we all know how it is common to keep entry hazards on the opponent's side of the field because of the lack of -really good- Defog or Rapid Spin users and because of how Stealth Rock setters have a really good matchup over them. Also Linoone's other set, the Choice Band one, isn't nearly B+ worthy, because it faces plenty of competition and it is almost outclassed by other wallbreakers such as Stoutland and Ursaring, though Switcheroo is nice to have.
 

Anty

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Seviper to C-

Seviper is outclassed by most other special attackers, but it's ability to beat ClefTang is nice, and it more or less has no counters outside of Lickilicky. As a pure wallbreaker, it does just fine, so it should be enough for C-, and certainly is at least as useful as Wigglytuff or Cherrim.



Diglett to D
I want this ranked for this set, because it is such an incredible partner to Linoone. It basically can trap, outspeed and Memento any faster pokemon and render them set-up bait for Linoone (Ursaring, Rapidash, Stoutland, Simipour, etc) It also eliminates Probopass. If Natu can be ranked in D solely for being a necessity to Shedinja, than this should be ranked as well for being the best partner to Linoone and basically guaranteeing it a win against offense.

Diglett @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Memento
- Filler
- Filler
I agree with Raiza regarding linoone as it requires too much support and is too reliable to be amazingly effective. Regarding seviper, i agree that it should be raised but for a completely different reason. Beating tangclef means absolutely nothing considering that isnt an actual core, rather a specially bulky and physically bulky mon put together that quite a lot beat (knock off/poison types/fire types/etc). Seviper should be raised (maybe even to c) due to victreebel being banned so now the LO/specs sets are no longer completely outclassed. Its a decent wallbreaker so i can see it on the same rank as relicanth, as although its a bit weaker and frailer, it is faster, can go mixed and has priority.

I dont really see your reasoning on diglett. I doesnt trap steel types well as probo often run a balloon (and will try to not let it pop if playing a diglett) and pawniard OHKOs with sucker punch. Memento doesnt guarantee a set up and its not like its a niche for diglett (linoone should always be run with dual screen and or memento). How does it give linoone a guarateed win vs offense? Yes you more reliably get of a memento on a poke that cannot ohko linoone, but it doesnt exactly KO mons like tangela that live a hit. Also diglett is horribly weak, and those types of teams often cannot allow a faster Pokemon to set up, which diglett does
 

MZ

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Speaking of things that can drop now that Victreebel is gone...

Jewish Yellow Man B- --> C+
It's not that this has gotten worse and it still works as a SpDef wall, but being able to beat Vic due to Insomnia was, imo, one of the main reasons that this got so high. With Knock Off Simipour getting more popular and standard offensive teams not really having a problem with it right now because like everything kills it or is Grumpig, the meta has been too unkind to this for it to stay in B-. I'd say it's probably worse than everything in B- outside of Whirlipede, which is just outclassed. Can we drop whirl too because veni is just better and both have gotten worse anyway?
 
Some movements I'd like to see:

Mightyena from A- to B+
The popularity of stuff like Poliwrath, Tangela, and Torterra doesn't do it any favour as well as the high number of checks commonly found on teams such as Probopass and Pawniard makes this less effective than it could be. We can talk about it later if something happens with the shift but atm i dont think this deserves a place in the As.

Golem from A- to B+
Popularity of the aforemention Pokemon give this no way to set up Stealth Rock or utility during the game a lot of the time. It doesn't check any Electric-type well or have a good lead matchup against anything either.

Gourgeist-XL from A- to B+
Controversial compared to other noms but outside of spinblocking (which means you have to pair this with Roselia, clearly not ideal) this doesn't really have much to offer over a Tangela or a Roselia sadly. Wisp is cool i guess.

Swanna from B to B+
Flying moves are broken as hell and in the moment in which the best Flying-type resists are Probopass and Stunfisk and the best check on offense is Ice Shard Piloswine it is clear how good this is. It also switches in easily on special Poliwrath and checks Simipour too while being a Water-type that beats Roselia.
 
Rapidash from A+ to A rank (second, below Tangela)

Rapidash is still a good Pokemon with great coverage and is very good vs certain offensive teams, but I think it is less effective in a bulkier meta due to low power vs bulkier teams and a struggle to accomplish everything it wants to do (Flare Blitz is necessary leaving one of Wild Charge, Drill Run, Morning Sun, Will-o-Wisp omitted). Without Wild Charge or Drill Run it is easy to wall by common Pokemon (Poliwrath Pelipper Probopass etc), without wisp it is smasher bait and without Morning Sun it dies really easily due to the longer game time in a bulkier meta. Ninetales isn't that common anymore either and that is one of Rapidash's niches. All in all it's still a very threatening unpredictable anti-offense Pokemon but I think it's a little bit worse in this meta and a worse Pokemon overall than Stoutland and Tangela, hence the 2nd Pokemon in A rank.
 
I thought about something randomly right before I fell asleep and now I'm up late making this post because I have an idea :p

So this thread is an Extremely helpful tool for new players to get into the pu metagame, and I really think it's starting to get more and more accurate, (though we might get some tier shifts soon :S). In fact, this is one of the most helpful threads for me when I started learning the meta. however, as a new player back then one thing I always had a problem with was the question why.

For example, Zebstrika is currently A+rank right now. When I was a new player, I was unsure of why this pokemon was A+ rank, what made it so good, you know? So the thread shows you what is good in this meta, however it doesn't tell you why it is good (or bad). Don't you think that would be very useful for new players to have? I know that analyses Can give a small taste of how effective it is, but it really doesn't always hit the mark exactly on WHY. So I am proposing this:

Why don't we start to integrate reasonings for why the pokemon are as high or low or mediocre as they are?

It isn't that hard, we can just start with like A+ and S rank and slowly work the way down. it is kind of like a side project to the viability rankings. We could just type up a small paragraph for the mon explaining why it is where it's at, and link it on the name of the pokemon as a pastebin. It's simple and effective.

I think that doing this would really help new players figure out not only WHAT is good (or bad), but WHY it is good (or bad). It's just an idea to throw out there, because I can't count how many times someone on ps would ask "why is delcatty e rank?" Or "why is Roselia S rank?" What do you all think about this?
 
i would be on board with descriptions like a threatlist but i think it should be in a separate thread so it doesn't clog up the main nomination thread with a bunch of descriptions. so two things:

a) this viability rankings
b) a threatlist ordered by viability rankings which isn't intended to go onsite

i can host the latter if anyone wants me to
 

MZ

And now for something completely different
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We already have sets viability ranking thread, which explains what these things run to make them so good, an EV spread compendium for a similar purpose, analysis for nearly all of these mons even if some are outdated, and the room. Is another thread really that much more useful?

Edit: actually this is literally suggesting a thread for PU boTTT's mini-analyses lmao

I like all of galbia's noms except Gourgeist, the rank might be crowded but its defensive utility is amazing at countering so much shit and checking even more, not to mention offensive is cool for luring things and performs decently. As much as I use it, I think rotom could instead stand to drop, as it isn't really on par with the rest of a-. As a breaker it's cool for its unique stab combo that can pressure teams well, but it also has poor speed without a scarf which makes it easier to play around and tends to be more dead weight vs offensive teams. I found myself using some occa utility offensive variant that was kinda cool but it really couldn't stay around too long. Not to mention, it misses one blizzard and you're actually pretty much fucked, and it's really reliant on hitting said 70% accurate move, which is really obnoxious as well as a legitimate issue.
 
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