Lower Tiers PU Viability Rankings

-> S

So this will probably be a bit controversial and I'm not 100% sure I agree with it myself, but it would be good to have discussion.

Rotom-F is insanely good in this meta. Both of its sets (including all variants of the sub set) have very little in the way of actual answers and are hard to both play around and accomodate during teambuilding (the latter is almost impossible). The only real flaw this mon has is the sr weakness, which can be accomodated for with not too much difficulty. The main reason this is so good is that it's an Electric type that easily beats almost every answer to other Electric types. This not only gives it few answers in general, but it makes it so that unlike other Electric types, it can easily wear down its counters with Volt Switch provided that Stealth Rock is off the field. The sub set can set a sub up on some of the most common Pokemon in the tier (Audino without Encore, Stunfisk without Sludge Wave) as well as on the huge amounts of switches it forces, and nearly always requires sacking at least one mon just to break its sub. This mon is pretty ridiculous and I could definitely see it in S.
There isn't a S Rank definition in this VR but I think Rotom-F fits in this one (taken from the NU VR): "Pokemon in this rank fill all of the main criteria and then some with a strong proficiency in one or more of the positive traits. If a Pokemon in this rank has any downsides, they are usually tame or eclipsed by their obvious assets."

As Magnemite said, the main issue with Rotom-F is the sr weakness, which is very easy to handle. If the opponent uses a counter/check, Rotom-F can use a powerful STAB Volt Switch to switch into an another mon that can deal with Rotom-F threats. Besides that, thanks to its great offensive double type, the Scarf version is very useful against offensive mons and the Sub set can manage other things.
 
Rotom-F is very much deserving of S rank dude to its ability to fill multiple sets/roles and do well against all types of playstyles while hitting hard with dual STAB electric/ice.

The best sets rotom can run are sub will-o and choice scarf. Both are equally viable in my opinion although they specialize in very different roles. Sub will-o (my personal favorite) functions as a stallbreaker and team disruptor. Because of rotom's high defenses and set variability it can sub on weak defensive mons like knock off audino and stunfisk as well as subbing on forced switches, bluffing a scarf set. After subbing, rotom can freely dismantle the opponent's switch with a burn or hit it hard with either of its dual stab (tbolt/blizzard). Choice scarf obviously functions as a revenge killer set but the momentum with volt switch or the disruption with trick are nice added tools in its arsenal. Both sets benefit from the existence of the other because the switch ins are very set dependent (Ex- Stunfisk may be a switch in to scarf rotom on the volt switch, but Stunfisk is never a switch into the Sub will-o set).

Additionally, Rotom-F can apply a tremendous amount of pressure to teams of all playstyles with very little downside on a wrong prediction.

Stall does the worst vs Rotom-F due to sub sets being able to sub on several stall mons and Blizzard can defeat hard to kill defensive grasses. Most notably is the pressure sub can put on audino as knock off cant break sub in one hit and will-o can outstall heal bells. Scarf trick also does a good job of crippling spdef mons that are needed for wish passing and heal bell support. Overall, I'd say sub will-o is better versus this style because the set provides extra utility with burns and leftoves recovery. Scarf also does well but only slightly worse than its counterpart due to the lack of a recovery item and the inability to beat audino 1v1 without tricking it prior.

Rotom vs Balance: This is a bit trickier as scarf may face problems vs this playstyle because most good balanced teams have both an electric immunity or an ice resist. Mons like grumpig, stunfisk, and probopass all create problems for a misplayed scarf rotom. Avoiding this problem requires losing team speed by tricking the scarf on a wall which usually is effective on balanced teams, but limits the overall role that scarf rotom performs. Sub will-o doesn't face this problem as getting behind a sub on stunfisk, a grass mon, or a weaker/slower flying type (vullaby/altaria) isn't difficult and the switch then has to face a burn or strong dual stab. Overall, i'd say both do very well vs balance and each has various perks that make neither better or worse against this playstyle.

Offense can handle rotom the best out of the mentioned playstyles as it usually carries staple priority mons like pawniard and monferno to revenge or force a switch out. This playstyle doesn't rely as heavily on fat glue mons for team stability so losing a mon and revenging rotom (meanwhile forcing stealth rock damage stack up) isn't quite as much of a problem. Scarf sets handle offense nicely as the added speed is good for handling many fast frail threats like zeb and floatzel that would otherwise outspeed. The sub set does much worse against offense in comparison to the scarf set counterpart due to the fact that rotom very rarely gets an opportunity to set up a sub without it breaking or taking huge damage in the process due to a lot of mons on offense outspeeding or being able to break sub.

I think the last thing I'd like to address with Rotom-F is that its typing allows it to absolutely destroy most of the tier. There are only two mons that resist both its stabs in PU: Seaking (barely viable imo) and Chinchou (not viable but maybe one day lil bro). The mons we use to handle Rotom, such as Audino, Regice, Grumpig, Probopass, are easily worn down from SR, Volt Switch momentum into a physical wallbreaker, the sub will-o set, or Rotom's other non-resisted stab. Rotom's presence in the tier makes running an electric immunity and ice resist very important on almost every team because of how devastating scarfed rotom can be when outspeeding a team with no switch in to either stab.

To conclude, Rotom-F is deserving of S rank in my opinion due to equally viable set versatility, a good match up vs all playstyles, and dual stab that strongly influences running a resist for each on most teams.
 
Machoke from A to A+
Bouffalant from A+ to A
Golduck from B+ to B
Drifblim from C+ to B-
Lickilicky from B- to C+

Rotom is now the highest mon in A+, I'd like some more discussion on whether or not it should be S (specifically I know some people oppose it going to S but haven't posted)

Also it shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone that Machoke moved up, it's almost impossible to switch into, very hard to take down in one hit, and can easily hax its way out of a bad situation. Bouffalant moved down because the meta is kind of shifting away from it, its individual sets just aren't quite as effective anymore.
 
In my opinion Rotom-F should be ranked S because it has a very good coverage to handle all the metagame with boltbeam and trick for special walls and eviolite users.
Also the sub wow set is really frustrating to play against because it destroys fat teams and can sub against too many mons like stunfisk, gourgiest etc..

I would put in A+ rank also Monferno since Pawniard is everywhere now and it's a better check than Machoke and has a very good coverage which makes him comfortable with all variants of teams: the wow taunt version in stall/balanced teams, u-turn version in volturn teams and the sd/tpunch version fit very well in balanced/ho teams.
 
Vibrava to B


While it may not be the best defogger, Vibrava is a pretty good and get it's job done. It's nice defensive typing and decent bulk coupled with eviolite, while resistance to SR and immunity to both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, while having reliable recovery and being a really good pivot with a slow u-turn, capable of bringing a team mate in safely. Vibrava also can defog on common threats and also switch in on common rockers, like Probopass and Stunfisk. Vibrava is also a pretty good partner to everything that has a 4x weakness to stealth rocks due good defensive and offensive synergy, like Ninjask and Articuno. Overall, vibrava is just a really solid pokemon and, even thought not the best, it is pretty good and get it's job done.
 

ShuckleDeath

They call me the kign of typos
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In my opinion Rotom-F should be ranked S because it has a very good coverage to handle all the metagame with boltbeam and trick for special walls and eviolite users.
Also the sub wow set is really frustrating to play against because it destroys fat teams and can sub against too many mons like stunfisk, gourgiest etc..

I would put in A+ rank also Monferno since Pawniard is everywhere now and it's a better check than Machoke and has a very good coverage which makes him comfortable with all variants of teams: the wow taunt version in stall/balanced teams, u-turn version in volturn teams and the sd/tpunch version fit very well in balanced/ho teams.
I will back this up. Rotom is feeding off of the Metagame right now. It almost single handily made Seaking rise in viability which is surprising when you consider that Seaking loses to the SubWisp variant. Rotom has a field day with offensive teams with a Choice Scarf, while also breaking balanced with the above Choice Scarf(or Specs) it is versatile and easy to bluff sets. The biggest draw to me is that it becomming more and more a Metagame defining Pokemon. Its always at the top of the mind when building and preparing teams. It is so easy to fit on teams/ build around, yet so hard to prepare for. It is easy to use, and hard to play around. the big drawbacks i see to Rotom is the shaky accuracy of its STAB Blizzard, and Stealth Rock weakness.

I will hold off on Monferno for now, until the end of suspect testing for Exeggcutor and Vigoroth.
 
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Misdreavus from B+ to A-
Dr. Dreavus (Misdreavus) @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam/Psychic
- Will-O-Wisp

I've been using Dreavus a lot recently on some balance teams for some extra bulk without a dedicated spdef wall. I've found that it provides a lot of utility on balance and it can act as a setup sweeper and team disruptor all in one mon, so I've been fairly content with it. In addition, ghost typing and a ground immunity are wonderful attributes to add to any team. I've found that Misdreavus can fit nicely on most teams and work to handle lead Golem (which has grown very popular recenlty) with WoW. Missy also provides a fighting type immunity for monferno which has become difficult to counter without pelipper or stunfisk on your team, a normal immunity for the likes of scarfed Chatot and Bouffalant, and a bulky mon that can take hits from Regice (which does well vs balance) and also hit back. In addition to adding a lot in terms of defensive capabilities, Misdreavus can do very well offensively to break balance and outspeed problem base 80/81 speed mons. NP + Shadow ball + coverage move is extremely helpful for beating grumpig/vullaby and being able to outspeed and lure in monferno to hit it with psychic. WoW, Taunt, and Heal Bell are all useful utilities Missy can utilize but I prefer will-o because you can outspeed and neuter pawniard and stoutland (as forcing it to facade for the rest of the game works well with rock types on your team). Lastly, Dreavus gives you a ghost for vigoroth and a revenge killer for eggy. Didn't want to make that last point to big as I believe they will both be gone in a few days.

Vullaby from A- to A
Eggland's Best (Vullaby) @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Foul Play
- Taunt/Brave Bird/U-turn

This nom shouldn't go as much of a surprise. Vulbaby is the best defogger in PU because it can check/counter most physical attackers while also being able to defog, reliably recover, and provide utility or momentum. Overcoat gives you a sleep immunity and Vullaby's typing allows it to function as a check to a lot of special psychics (non-dazzling gleam locked mime, kadabra, eggy, grumpig) as well. Utility in taunt allows you to beat stall to an extent while Brave bird gives you a fighting chance against SD monferno and machoke. U-turn goes without saying, but it is very nice for momentum on more offensively oriented teams. Other than that, there isn't much to say. Vullaby is a really straight forward mon and when I look at viability I feel as though it does its job equally or better than a lot of A mons. It can check/counter so many threats in A- through S and foul play makes it more than just a defogger as it can hit back physical attackers hard.
 

Raiza

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World Defender
Despite at first showing my opposition to Rotom-F being moved to S rank, I'm quite torn about it right now, but still more prone to wanting it be left in A+, as S would be quite a huge step for it, and therefore I would need to be completely sure about the matter before approving the nomination fully. Moving Rotom-F to the S rank depends on if its qualities heavily outweigh its negatives and how well it can abuse current metagame trends, so I'll focus on these two points. The post is long so I'll highlight my main points.

Starting off from its qualities, Rotom-F is mostly known for its BoltBlizzard STAB combo, which makes it hard to switch into, and allows it to break through common Electric-types checks and counters, naming some Stunfisk, Roselia, Golem and so on. This combo, along with high Special Attack and decent Speed, also makes it extremely threatening as a cleaner, when running a Choice Scarf set, against most offensive builds that don't pack one of the really few dedicated answers like Seaking and Chinchou. This set is also able to carry Volt Switch, which becomes extremely effective when running Rotom-F, given Blizzard scares out most Electric-type immunities, and therefore allows it to almost freely pivot in and out against bulky foes or Pokemon Rotom-F can't bring down straight off the bat. Another quality Rotom-F carries, makes it have even fewer checks and counters, and I'm talking about its versatility and unpredictability before having scouted its item. Rotom-F, other than the Choice Scarf set, can also run a SubWill-O-Wisp and a SubSplit set, both really threatening especially when running a slow-paced or unprepared team, making Rotom-F a true pain for balanced and defensive builds too, given it is able to reliably wear down bulkier foes, which in some cases can't even break through the Substitute, this because of Rotom-F's decent bulk even without investments. A Substitute set, as already said by other users, can also be deadly to offensive teams if they let Rotom-F set up one, and can lead them to having to sac at least one Pokemon before being able to dent Rotom-F health bar. Access to Levitate is also quite a feature in Rotom-F's kit, as it is able to provide offensive and balanced teams with one of the few Ground-type immunity, which I mean still gets steamrolled by Rock-type coverage, but can at least offensively threaten and revengekill Ground-types. Moving onto negatives, remember early when I talked about its combo? Well, the combo, despite being really good, also contains one of Rotom-F biggest flaws, which his Blizzard's accuracy: in fact, Blizzard has a shaky accuracy and missing with it isn't rare at all, this makes Rotom-F a less reliable revengekiller and cleaner, which are its two main jobs to put work in. Another pretty big issue Rotom-F has is its weakness to Stealth Rock. Despite not necessarily needing entry hazard removal, Rotom-F is still annoyed by the presence of Stealth Rock in the field, as they limit its potential in VoltTurn cores, and are able to decimate pretty quickly Rotom-F's health bar along with the usage of Substitute, therefore deterring the use of Substitute itself. Stealth Rock, along with Rotom-F decent but not exceptional / high Speed, also put Rotom-F in danger of faster Choice Scarf users such as Simipour and Dodrio, but also a plethora of other offensive Pokemon in case it isn't carrying a Choice Scarf. Overall I would say that Rotom-F is extremely slot efficient, and its positives definitely outweigh its negatives but not that heavily to blankly consider it S rank before going over other points.

This last point will be quite short because it's really late and I want to sleep. Rotom-F has risen as a top Pokemon pick in most teams almost purely because of metagame trends. First of all, the decline of Fire-types hugely helps Rotom-F: Fire-types such as Ninetales are decent checks to Rotom-F, even if they can get worn down quickly by Stealth Rock, but the same goes for Rotom-F, they resist Blizzard and most of them can outpace Rotom-F when it's not running Choice Scarf. Also Ninetales tanks a Thunderbolt even after Stealth Rock damage so it can check the Choice Scarf nicely too, not that sure regarding others such as Simisear though. Other metagame trends that help Rotom-F consolidate its dominance is that it deals well with bulky Encore users such as Audino used to deal with the popular Vigoroth, and bulky Pokemon in general that are used to check Exeggutor, such as Vullaby, bulky Zweilous, Tangela, and so on. Stunfisk, despite the presence of Exeggutor, is still kind of omnipresent on bulkier teams that want something more reliable defensively than Golem, especially against Monferno and Pawniard, so Rotom-F fares against that pretty well too. But, there's a but, with the suspect test coming to an end, we don't know what the result will be and if the metagame will have a different shape compared to the current one, so I would honestly wait a bit before taking a decision regarding Rotom-F's ranking, and that's also another reason for why I'm iffy about promoting it to S right off the bat.
 
two quick and short noms
Munchlax to C
Munchy was always in Vigoroths shadow and now with its beautiful over 90% Ban Munchlax has lost its biggest competition as a fat normal type. Overall its role remains similar in its curse set and C just seems like a reasonable position for it atm.

Regigigas to C+
This is something myself and others have been using a bit more as of late and it honestly is pretty good Both its Para+3 Attacks/ParaSub+2 Attacks set are really nice (personally prefer Para+3 since coverage) its overall really nice for support thanks to Thunder Wave+Knock Off and is able to put a dent in teams with its near perfect coverage options. RegigigAs stands out as being the fattest tank in PU and it is quite difficult to take the colossal pokemon down even with multiple mons.
 
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Deej Dy

Verified Ladder Scurb 乁( ◔ ౪◔)ㄏ
Don't play PU as much as I used to, but I was wondering why Gorebyss (Huntail too I guess) was only B+? Seems more of A mon to be honest, as it is extremely potent once it sets up (arguably more so than Huntail) and it isn't too difficult finding a setup opportunity (You can even choose to run Memento or Screens if you choose to be a cancer).
 

ManOfMany

I can make anything real
is a Tiering Contributor
Don't play PU as much as I used to, but I was wondering why Gorebyss (Huntail too I guess) was only B+? Seems more of A mon to be honest, as it is extremely potent once it sets up (arguably more so than Huntail) and it isn't too difficult finding a setup opportunity (You can even choose to run Memento or Screens if you choose to be a cancer).
The reason it wasn't ranked any higher was solely because any team with a Scarfer can prevent it from sweeping. However, I agree with a rise to A- since not every team will use a Scarf Pokemon and it just destroys balance with a little bit of support (Encore/Memento)

also welcome back Deej! n_n
 

Raiza

is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SPL Championis a Past WCoP Championis a Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
World Defender
The are more issues than only that
First of all, as it has already been implicitly said, Gorebyss's main issue is its Speed. In fact Gorebyss is extremely slow pre-setup, making it susceptible to Taunt(not really a big issue as we don't have that many Taunt users and they are scared off by Gorebyss, but still), and harder to force switches therefore find set-up opportunities. And yeah, it's actually kind of hard to find set-up opportunities with Gorebyss, as it is frail and struggles setting up against almost all the s / a+ / a / a- / and even b+ ranks. Gorebyss is kind of slow even after setting a Shell Smash, and so, along with being frail, it becomes an easy target for most Choice Scarf users out there, and also Priority users if its HP bar is chunked out. Another negative aspect is that you need to run HP Electric to break through Water-types, leaving Gorebyss with only Hydro Pump as a STAB, which is yes powerful but also shaky regarding accuracy, being a let down at times. For these reasons, it's also generally not worth wasting a team slot / sacrificing a teammate to support Gorebyss. In case Gorebyss finds set up and can somehow bypass Choice Scarf users, most offensive teams, other than a Choice Scarf user, can also carry a soft check to Gorebyss, such as Machoke, Grumpig, Regice, Articuno, AV Bouffalant and other stuff. Lastly, Gorebyss finds competition with Huntail, which still has kind of the same problems but can deal with most revengekillers because of access to Sucker Punch, but as a downside Waterfall is considerably weaker than Hydro Pump, and despite being more reliable regarding getting lucked, it makes it harder for Huntail to pull off a sweep before having further weakened the opposing team. Gorebyss is still good with a decent setup behind it though, therefore deserving of the B+ rank.
 
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104 defense is nice even with these pathetic HP so it has some setup opportunities against weak physical attackers such as Monferno.
However yeah lots of teams has got a scarfer that can ko Gorebyss (heyy Rotom) and is pretty weak to prios after shell smash :
252+ Atk Choice Band Dusknoir Shadow Sneak vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Gorebyss: 129-153 (51.3 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so it can be worn down by prios after a bit of prior damage which is not hard because of its speed before a shell smash, and it faces competition from his brother Huntail so B+ is nice for her.



and also...
in C- ?
The only thing it can do effectively is supporting Shedinja and wasting a teamslot. Seriously, Shedinja is pretty niche and Magic Bounce doesn't help for his mediocre stats. It loses to physical attackers even with physically defensive investissement :
252+ Atk Golem Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Natu: 198-240 (69.9 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Natu: 186-220 (65.7 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Floatzel Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Natu: 129-153 (45.5 - 54%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO
And they can all KO it before it can Roost the damage.
Also in most matches it only bounces hazards one time and get killed. It's not worth using over a defogger or a spinner like the good ol' Armaldo or Pelipper.
 
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104 defense is nice even with these pathetic HP so it has some setup opportunities against weak physical attackers such as Monferno.
However yeah lots of teams has got a scarfer that can ko Gorebyss (heyy Rotom) and is pretty weak to prios after shell smash :
252+ Atk Choice Band Dusknoir Shadow Sneak vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Gorebyss: 129-153 (51.3 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
so it can be worn down by prios after a bit of prior damage which is not hard because of its speed before a shell smash, and it faces competition from his brother Huntail so B+ is nice for her.



and also...
in C- ?
The only thing it can do effectively is supporting Shedinja and wasting a teamslot. Seriously, Shedinja is pretty niche and Magic Bounce doesn't help for his mediocre stats. It loses to physical attackers even with physically defensive investissement :
252+ Atk Golem Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Natu: 198-240 (69.9 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Natu: 186-220 (65.7 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Floatzel Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Natu: 129-153 (45.5 - 54%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO
And they can all KO it before it can Roost the damage.
Also in most matches it only bounces hazards one time and get killed. It's not worth using over a defogger or a spinner like the good ol' Armaldo or Pelipper.

Natu SHOULD be running enough speed for Golem and other neutral nature base 45's. Reflect also helps mitigate the damage taken so it can effectively block rocks for Shedinja. Just something I felt needed to be mentioned here. But i support the drop to D, to be honest.
 
Natu SHOULD be running enough speed for Golem and other neutral nature base 45's. Reflect also helps mitigate the damage taken so it can effectively block rocks for Shedinja. Just something I felt needed to be mentioned here. But i support the drop to D, to be honest.
Yeah but Natu doesn't really have a room for it, if you want to use reflect it has to forget T-Wave which is useful to help the team Shedinja against Stoutland and Simipour and alike, and you still are weak to special attackers such as Zebstrika.
At least he's better and more useful than Bellossom or Wormy-Ground and is as good as Lunatone and is the only user of Magic Bounce so Unranked dorsn't fit I guess.

Natu to D
 
i don't see why it doesn't have room for it, a set of reflect / twave / roost / u-turn probably works fine since you really won't ever be clicking weak base 70 spa uninvested psychic and between twave and u-turn you already have enough to not be fodder for everything.

galbiaedit: Reflect is a necessity on Natu for sure and you can easily drop U-turn (not amazing since you dont cover hazards if faster or you take a lot of damage if slower) or Night Shade for it. With it you can beat Specially Defensive Golem, Gabite, Solrock, and Metang very easily (also some Monferno) and with Light Screen you can beat Probopass and Stunfisk if you are into that

that said i don't particularly care if natu is c- or d
 
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Why the viabs is dead and no one is talking about Banette?
Personally I can't really talk about because I didn't tested it and imo it's just a worse Dusknoir with Knock Off and usable SpA so C is fine
 

Raiza

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World Defender
well I tried mixed Banette, it wasn't that useful, but it wasn't that terrible at a point where I would've replaced it with another Ghost-type Pokemon. Mixed Banette is cool to lure Defog users such as Vullaby and wear down common physical walls that usually switch into physical Banette, such as Vullaby, Avalugg, Stunfisk, Relicanth and other stuff, thanks to Banette's ok special attack, and access to coverage options such as Dazzling Gleam and Thunderbolt. Running a mixed set still allows Banette to not deal abysmal damage physically, therefore it can still take advantage of moves such as Knock Off, which is one of its main niches over other Ghost-types, and a priority between Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch, so yeah I think it can carve out a little niche for itself running a mixed set. That said, Banette is really slow, and carries pathetic bulk, making it useful only against bulkier and slower foes, and almost completely useless against faster Pokemon(and a lot of Pokemon in this tier are faster than Banette) that carry at least decent damage output, as Banette won't have the opportunity to click anything other than Sucker Punch / Shadow Sneak, which aren't KOing anything that isn't preemptively weakened. Its really low bulk makes Banette threatened by even some defensive Pokemon at times and an easy target for priority users that don't want to get hit by Shadow Sneak / Sucker Punch, while a Choice Band / Life Orb physical set is still not really able to truly dent common aforementioned physical walls and makes it have though competition with the many other wallbreakers in the tier. I think D or C- at best is appropriated for Banette at the moment, even though I saw people such as galbia play with it, so I would wait for them before deciding a proper rank for it.
 
Banette added to D
Monferno from A to A+
Seaking from C+ to B-
Lickilicky from C+ to C
Regigigas from C+ to C
Weepinbell from unlisted to C+
Lumineon from E to D

Banette is pretty bad, it's really frail, and while it has stronger stab than Dusknoir, it's really not that strong at all, and it's slow and OHKOed by just about everything. People have found a bit of success with mixed sets, but this mon is generally really terrible. Monferno moved up because the loss of Pelipper alleviated quite a bit of 4mss, and it's still a really splashable mon. Seaking moved up because it beats a lot of mons that are hard to account for currently, as well as being able to hold its own on a team thanks to decent power / coverage and access to moves like Agility.
 
May I ask where the rise of Lumineon came from? Was it mostly (or completely) due to being a mediocre replacement Defogger for Pelipper?
 
May I ask where the rise of Lumineon came from? Was it mostly (or completely) due to being a mediocre replacement Defogger for Pelipper?
it is an ok defogger not weak to Stealth Rock, able to ohko golem and to check threatening Pokemon like Floatzel very easily. Also has access to U-turn and has usable bulk invested. Now that pelipper is not there it also lost the pokemon that completely outclassed it so there is some reason to use it
 

ShuckleDeath

They call me the kign of typos
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
OK I feel Mr.Mime should be in at least A Rank as both of it's Choice sets threaten a big portion of the tier. Roselia, Monferno, Machoke, Vullaby, Audino, all get at least 2hko'd by its Modest Specs set. It is also one of the best Scarf users at the moment as not only does it threaten fast Mons such as Zebstrika, Floatzel, Jumpluff, and Raichu it also threatens other scarfers such as Rotom and Chatot. On top of this it is also the best Healing Wish user in the tier, which is great atm supporting the likes of SD Monferno, Quick Feet Ursaring, Banded Dodrio, Rock Polish Relicanth and other Mons that appreciate a "Second Chance". I just think Mr.Mime Ranked a little to low, i mean it seems like the biggest Drawback to using Mr.Mime, especially the Scarf set is that your not using scarf Rotom or Simipour which is reason enough for me not to up it to A+ but it looks better than most A- Mons in the current meta.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mr. Mime Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 284-336 (69.2 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mr. Mime Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 224-266 (65.3 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mr. Mime Psychic vs. 160 HP / 28 SpD Eviolite Machoke: 390-462 (114.3 - 135.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
OK I feel Mr.Mime should be in at least A Rank as both of it's Choice sets threaten a big portion of the tier. Roselia, Monferno, Machoke, Vullaby, Audino, all get at least 2hko'd by its Modest Specs set. It is also one of the best Scarf users at the moment as not only does it threaten fast Mons such as Zebstrika, Floatzel, Jumpluff, and Raichu it also threatens other scarfers such as Rotom and Chatot. On top of this it is also the best Healing Wish user in the tier, which is great atm supporting the likes of SD Monferno, Quick Feet Ursaring, Banded Dodrio, Rock Polish Relicanth and other Mons that appreciate a "Second Chance". I just think Mr.Mime Ranked a little to low, i mean it seems like the biggest Drawback to using Mr.Mime, especially the Scarf set is that your not using scarf Rotom or Simipour which is reason enough for me not to up it to A+ but it looks better than most A- Mons in the current meta.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mr. Mime Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 284-336 (69.2 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mr. Mime Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 224-266 (65.3 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mr. Mime Psychic vs. 160 HP / 28 SpD Eviolite Machoke: 390-462 (114.3 - 135.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I wouldn't be opposed to Mr. Mime moving up to A. With Monferno, Roselia, and Machoke on the rise, I feel like Mr. Mime deserves a bit of a boost. However, I don't think he deserves to rise any higher than the bottom of A. Keep in mind that these calcs are for specs Mime, pokes like Choice Band Floatzel and Rapidash can mess up its life pretty easily, due to Mime's horrible defense and low HP. Choice Scarf Mime struggled to get the KOs/2HKOs that you described in your calcs. It's hard to ignore that Mr. Mime counters a lot of good pokemon right now, but I don't think it deserves that high of a rise, especially not to A+.
 

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