Challenge "Replacing" Every Single Unova Pokémon

[bdt2002]

Hey there, everyone. I've had a few pretty neat ideas (or at least I think they're neat) for threads lately, and now that I'm fully moved back into school and am back on a consistent routine, I wanted to share one of these ideas. Pretty much everyone remembers Generation 5, and how it was supposed to be this massive overhaul of the Pokémon franchise. True to this notion, many of the Pokémon released during this time period draw comparisons to previously existing Pokémon across the other regions. The Unova region in particular has received a lot of attention lately, with a number of subtle references popping up across Pokémon media alongside several unconfirmed rumors and leaks of what many expect to be Unova remakes arriving on the Nintendo Switch in the next year or two. This thread isn't a place to discuss trhose, but one thing I would like to discuss is what I believe to be a major game design flaw with the original Black & White games. The problem boils down to how the first set of Unova games only allows the player to use new Unova Pokémon during the course of the main story excluding any trading shenanigans or event distributions. The game developers have specifically gone on record in the past and said that part of this decision was in an effort to get players to experiment with the new, unfamiliar Pokémon and discover for themselves which ones feel more unique and/or powerful than the rest of the cast. In theory, this isn't a problem at all. Many of Generation 5's newer Pokémon and even some returning faces in the sequels took advantage of some of the generation's new mechanics, such as new moves, Abilities, or even Hidden Abilities. The actual problem here is that so, so many of the new Pokémon actually play far too similar to the older Pokémon they were seemingly based on for me to want to call Unova's roster truly unique. So many, in fact, that I've started a new sort of challenge for myself that you guys can join if you'd like to.

Simply put, I want to try and take all 157 Generation 5 Pokémon introduced and find what their most accurate "replacement" would be from a gameplay perspective. Many of these have already been really easy to spot for many fans: Roggenrola and Timburr, Trubbish being similar to two of Kanto's Poison-Types, Pidove, Patrat, the usual suspects. Many of these that I've noticed are a bit more subtle, however, and some don't event apply to a single evolution family. Let's take a look at Tympole and its evolutions for example.

> Level 25 > > Level 36 >

Tympole makes for an excellent example of the kind of challenge I'm looking for with this thread. On one hand, Tympole starts its life feeling very similar to a Poliwag, with both being pure Water-Type Pokémon that share the same evolution level at 25 and even the same PokéDex category (that being the Tadpole Pokémon). After the evolution into Palpitoad, however, one could make a reasonable argument for these Water/Ground-Types turning into Unova's answer to the Mudkip family from Hoenn, notable because of their shared typings and their final evolution levels both being 36. When I said earlier that I want to be able to call Unova's roster "unique", what I meant by that was that, in a hypothetical Unova game where these Pokémon were replaced by these older representees, the gameplay sequence of Black & White (and the sequels, albeit to a much lesser extent) would still arguably feel the same as if the new Unova Pokémon were not replaced. If the whole point of Black & White 1 was to force players to use the new Unova Pokémon and not the old ones, making said Pokémon feel like repeated versions almost feels like backwards philosophy in a way.

Now that I'm done explaining this challenge, this is where you get to join the fun. I'm going to be keeping a running list of every Unova Pokémon and their chosen "replacements" on the side, and would like to encourage you all to leave your nomination and ideas on this thread so we can (ideally) help each other complete this list. Once the list is completed, I plan on making a follow-up thread discussing our results, and if the moderation team is okay with it, just how different this "revised Unova" would feel and play compared to the real version we got back in 2010-11. Alongside the Tympole example I mentioned earlier, I'll get this discussion started with my preferred picks for the Starter Pokémon replacements. Happy discussing, everyone, and thank you all for the help with this project in advance.

• I narrowed down Snivy's replacement to either Chikorita or Treecko, because of their evolutions remaining pure Grass-Type as well as specializing in the Snivy family's best attributes- Defense and Special Defense for Chikorita, and Speed for Treecko. In the end I went with Treecko since our new trio will need at least one special attacker to replace what Oshawott used to be in the Water-Type slot, and because the other available options for both Grass and Water weren't as fast as the Treecko and Snivy families are. What else can I say about Treecko...? Uh, it learns the buffed Giga Drain but not in all of its evolution stages for some reason? It and Snivy were the first two Starter lines to get Leaf Blade...?
• It was pretty obvious from the very beginning that Tepig's most accurate replacement would be one of either Torchic or Chimchar because of the whole Fire/Fighting thing. The real question came down to which one. I went with Torchic for a couple reasons. Chimchar's evolution level being 14 might have some level cap problems come about with the first Gym and take away from its theme of the Grass/Fire/Water type triangle's balance, since a Level 14 Monferno would be slightly better in this fight than our Grass and Water options. Blaziken is also the slower but bulkier of the fully evolved options compared to Infernape, and if necessary we would have this evolution family learn Flame Charge like they do in ORAS to better match up here, a change we never saw with Monferno due to it already having Flame Wheel to fill that niché. One last-minute note too that if this change was made, Torchic would now learn Ember at Level 6 or 7 instead of Level 10 in this generation.
• Finally, Squirtle was chosen as Oshawott's replacement as the new "bulky member" of this revised starter trio as well as being one of only two fully evolved pure Water-Type starters I had to pick from. Totodile also evolves two levels later than Squirtle does, and as luck would have it, Squirtle shares both of its evolution levels with the entire Hoenn Starter trio at 16 and 36 respectively. Earlygame Unova is also surprisingly lacking in Defense-boosting options, so Withdraw could be nice to fill that hole a bit too. Also, if anyone looks at the other two and says "why not just pick Mudkip and fit the whole Hoenn trio?" Well, if you read the Tympole section you would know I already have them covered. :)

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Go on then, let's.

So obviously there's things like Timburr>Machop, Roggenrola>Geodude, Pidove>Pidgey as you said, as well as obvious ones like the fossils and Emolga being Unova's resident Pikaclone, so let's look into a few others.

I'm not especially convinced that Snivy being more similar in build to Treecko than Bulbasaur indicates that Snivy is a "replacement" for Treecko specifically; they're all archetypes, just done differently. Snivy is thus no more a replacement for Treecko than it is Bulbasaur, Chikorita, or Turtwig. And though some Unova species bear more than a passing resemblance in terms of stats and playstyle to species from Gens II-IV, I think in the main this isn't the result of deliberate allusion or design any more than it is the result of coincidence - there's only so many different ways a Pokemon can operate based on their type and build. One could identify Braviary as a stronger Swellow, for instance (though the case is probably equally strong for Fearow and Dodrio). But a lot of the Unova species do call to mind the Gen I crew specifically, so I'll largely constrain myself to those:




Scolipede>Beedrill

It's hard not to draw comparisons between these two as the early-game poisonous bugs of their region. Their stat spreads are similar and they learn all the same sorts of moves, but Scolipede's line have vastly higher BSTs; it only hits a little harder than Beedrill does, but far outspeeds it. Beedrill's only advantage over Scolipede in Gen V was getting a far better Hidden Ability (Quick Feet Scolipede sucks hard) but Gen VI fixed that. The two found themselves more or less equalised once XY rolled around: Scolipede got access to a superb Hidden Ability, but Beedrill got a mega evolution. Now that those are gone Scolipede is back to being the king of the Bug/Poisons (with Venomoth as his dainty queen).



Sawk>Hitmonlee and Throh>Hitmonchan

Doing these together, for obvious reasons. Throh and Sawk are an early-game version of the Hitmon duo from Gen I (though, surprisingly, actually have a slightly higher BST than that shared by Chan and Lee - 465 compared to the Kanto duo's 455). Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee parallel each other in a classic "offensive v defensive" set up: equal HP and special stats, but Hitmonlee is slightly faster and offensively powerful and has lower physical Defence while Hitmonchan correspondingly is slightly slower and less offensively powerful, with higher physical Defence (side note: the difference in stats between Lee and Chan is always much less noticeable than I assume it to be).

Throh and Sawk basically exaggerate this dichotomy by differentiating every stat except Special Attack and making the difference bigger: Throh is far slower and noticeably much less powerful, but in return has vastly higher HP and defences, while Sawk correspondingly has much weaker defenses but is a lot more offensively powerful. All four Pokemon learn the same sorts of moves, but without uniformity and with some tweaks that mean the two duos don't play identically - for instance, Throh (the more defensive member of its duo) gets Wide Guard while Sawk (the more offensive member) gets Quick Guard, but Hitmonchan is the one that gets Quick Guard while it's Hitmonlee that gets Wide Guard. Hitmontop, of course, gets both moves.



Cottonee>Oddish and Petilil>Bellsprout

These might not immediately scream counterparts, but there's a resemblance here. They're all early/mid game Grass-types that parallel the other native line mechanically (same catch rate, base experience, base happiness, base stat total, etc) and due to version exclusivity: Oddish is exclusive to Red/FireRed while Bellsprout is exclusive to Green/LeafGreen. As people who've played BW and B2W2 will know, Cottonee and Petilil are nominally version exclusives but there's an in-game trade that allows players to obtain the absent species. Interestingly Lilligant was originally conceived as a three-stage line, which may mean the same was true of Cottonee; alternatively, the decision to pair the two lines in this way may only have been taken after Lilligant's middle evolution was cut.

When we look ahead to their evolutions, much like with the previous example Whimsicott and Lilligant share a base stat total that's precisely 10 points higher than that shared by their Kanto counterparts. And there's a similar dichotomy in how the stats of all these lines are organised: Vileplume is slow, with average but generally unimpressive stats across the board except for stellar Special Attack, while Victreebel has excellent offenses on both fronts at the cost of poor defenses and speed. Whimsicott has a spread of stats relatively similar to Vileplume, but has fantastic Speed instead of offenses to play the role of a disruptor and supporter; Lilligant, meanwhile, has unimpressive stats in everything except its Special Attack and Speed, being clearly primed for offense.



Garbodor>Muk

Garbodor is conceptually and mechanically very similar to Muk. They're physically-inclined but defensively competent mono-Poison types that enjoy access to wide movepools. Muk's stats are better, but Garbodor patches up the shortfall slightly by being faster and having balanced defences instead of lopsided ones. Overall Muk is generally the superior choice; it also gets overall better choices for abilities in Sticky Hold and Poison Touch; Garbodor's Weak Armour and Aftermath are both fairly lacklustre.



Amoonguss>Weezing

I know you said that Trubbish/Garbodor bear similarities to both of Kanto's pure Poison-types, but I would lightly disagree. Amoonguss also evokes Electrode with its Pokeball disguise gimmick, but I think mechanically it has a lot in common with Weezing. It's weaker overall but has a similar build: one very high stat (Defence for Weezing, HP for Amoonguss) and one very low stat (Speed in both instances) with the rest being fairly average. They both have relatively wide movepools and can attack straightforwardly, but lean towards tricky moves not based around straightforward offense.



Audino>Chansey

Probably the most blatant and deliberate homage, Audino is positionally similar to Clefairy and Jigglypuff as an early-game Normal-type, but was intentionally designed to be a Chansey replacement in the anime. This should take all of 120 seconds to write.

The two share a swathe of qualities: medical theme, access to various healing moves, wide movepools incorporating various elemental moves. Notably both species give out massive exp yields when defeated in the wild. Audino has only 5 BST less than Chansey and mimics its build generally, but has far lower HP thanks to not having single-digit Attack and Defence.



Jellicent>Tentacruel

Interesting one, this. I mean, they're both squids, and highly common in the waters of their respective regions. Aside from that... well, you could argue this one. The most obvious difference is that Jellicent is part Ghost while Tentacruel is Poison. Their stat spreads are similar, with the expected small differences: Tentacruel's Special Defence is slightly higher while its physical Defence is slightly lower; Jellicent's HP is markedly better but Tentacruel has superior Speed.

As you'd expect, there's a fair amount of overlap in their moves. But their abilities are very different (as opposed to the similarity in playstyle between, say, Machamp and Conkeldurr). I feel like someone will disagree with me if I say they're outright counterparts, but there's a definite parallel.



Reuniclus>Gengar and Gothitelle>Alakazam

Another paired example. The parallel here is more of a visual one rather than one relating to stat spreads or types. Much as Gigalith and Conkeldurr evoke Golem and Machamp, I've always been strongly reminded of Gengar and Alakazam by Reuniclus and Alakazam: one human-like, the other amorphous. All four lean heavily Special, though Reuniclus and Gothitelle enjoy higher overall defences at the cost of Gengar and Alakazam's incredible speed. And obviously Gengar and Alakazam aren't a version-exclusive pair, though there is a definite duality between them that Solosis and Gothita's mutual exclusivity in Unova brings to mind. Gothitelle and Alakazam's position as the ace of their region's resident Psychic-type specialist further reinforces the parallel between them to me. In terms of aesthetics my mind's made up on this one.



Volcarona>Gyarados

I'm noticing a recurring theme of Unova taking concepts introduced in Kanto and exaggerating them. Case in point.

Everyone knows what Magikarp is famous for: it's notorious for being weak as hell and in need of babying if one ever wants to evolve it, at the cost of an evolution widely regarded as powerful and versatile. Other regions have tried their hand at the "horrendously weak Pokemon" concept: Johto has both Hoppip and Sunkern, for instance. But I'd argue that neither of those call to mind associations with Magikarp overmuch: Hoppip evolves early, and Sunkern can evolve right away if you have the right item in your inventory. More importantly, neither transition into top-tier Pokemon in the way that Magikarp does. Feebas is the closest direct equivalent to Magikarp there's yet been: numerous observers have called Milotic the contest version of Gyarados, which is a valid and largely correct interpretation as far as I'm concerned.

Larvesta is notable for similar reasons to Magikarp: namely, the extreme lengths it takes to evolve. It evolves later than any other Pokemon, and at a level where nearly every other species has long since reached its final form already. All that time for a Pokemon with stats on par with Spinda, and a shaky type combination. But the reward is definitely worth the investment. In the original games and anime, Gyarados enjoys a relatively elevated, borderline sub-legendary status on par with powerful, hard-to-obtain final-form species like Arcanine, Gengar, and Lapras: well, Volcarona actually is considered a legendary in Unova (in-universe if not by official metrics). It's an immensely powerful Pokemon with a versatile movepool and an excellent signature move of the sort Gyarados would love to have (Dragon Rage isn't Gyarados' signature move, but is heavily associated with it in the anime and laughably bad compared to its portrayal there).

There's a definite connection between the two. Notably they're both part of the select group of species with 400-candy evolutions in Pokemon Go (the others currently being Swablu, Noibat, Stufful, Wimpod and Meltan). But the additional effort required to drag Magikarp up to evolution level is magnified by the requirement demanded by Larvesta, and I've no doubt the latter is intended to evoke the former.

Postscript

While not especially mechanically similar, something interesting that's just occurred to me is that Unova has no Pokemon available only via gifts* or in-game trades the way Kanto (initially) does in Farfetch'd, Jynx, Lickitung, Mr Mime, Lapras, Eevee, and Porygon. However, Zorua and Zoroark's initial locking to event-only status once again serves as an exaggeration of this tendency - only one non-wild species, but it's completely unobtainable without outside help. A decision that's aged terribly imo, but that's another conversation.

There's probably other examples out there than the ones I've covered but I'll wait and see if anyone else wants to dive in. Unova has a trio of Flying legendaries like Kanto does, but I'd opine that the Swords of Justice have more in common with the legendary birds than the Kami trio do - the way the latter trio are handled is more reminiscent of Johto's legendary beasts (though not identical).

*fossils aside

 

[Ironmage]

I've seen the comparisons with gen 1 only before, there's some interesting space when opening it up to include all previous mons. Here's my full list, attempting to keep the ingame feel consistent:

494-545

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At some level, straight 100s mythical of choice. I went with the one most related to its region's big legend since Victini kept picking up the Tao Trio's signature moves.

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Turtwig was also in contention as the bulky attacker, though I decided to focus on Serperior being the fastest of the set. The first two Grass starters were out of contention for me because I feel they are more Status-focused while subsequent ones (Serperior included) primarily learn regular attacks by level.

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3rd Fire/Fighting in a row gets marked as based off its predecessors. Either could work, but I feel both Pignite and Combusken share being awkwardly designed middle stages while Monferno actually looks decent.

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More than the speed/bulk axis, I always thought what defined Samurott was being physically biased based off of Razor Shell.

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Of its archetype, I felt that the Furret line was the most fitting. They share the same regular abilities (run away/keen eye) as Patrat, while Sentret matches the concept of always being on alert.

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Early game non-Flying Normals with full 3-stage lines expected to be used into late-game are pretty rare. I decided that despite being more animalistic, the Slakoth line's gimmick is too all-consuming for a simple early mon.

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The only 'early Dark' that actually predates Purrloin, as it primarily became common in gens 7+ (meowth-A, Rattata-A, Zigzagoon-G, Nickit, Maschiff). Glameow/Purugly might fit the aesthetic better, but I feel like these are here primarily for their typing

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It's a leaf stone evo with similar BST to Pansage to fit into the gym the monkeys were designed for, and Exeggutor was often used for gen 1 trainers as the Grass slot when they weren't getting Venusaur.

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Not the biggest fan of breaking the stone evo symmetry, but both Growlithe and Vulpix are locked into Abilities that will influence the battle beyond a typing tutorial. Ponyta can at least use Run Away instead.

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Shellder's also in consideration, but I decided to not mess up the FWG matchups and to have something that can show off Scald where it's still fresh

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While significantly creepier and can't learn Dream Eater, this is the other main Psychic dedicated to sleep.

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The other current option for 3-stage early Flyers is the Starly line, and Unfezant leans into fancy hair a lot more than it does Staraptor's fearsome offense.

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While I've seen the design compared most often to the Ponyta line, its purpose is to be an early Electric-type.

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The cave rock that evolves by trade for the first four generations.

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Another standardized slot.

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While there's the obvious comparison to the diglett line for both being (allegedly) moles, I chose to instead emphasize the status as rare cave encounters.

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Rare grass encounter with a nurse theming

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Another three-stage line that finishes with a trade evo.

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The generic water/ground amphibian line. Drops an evolution stage, but those have been added extra elsewhere and Quag still has presence (and the ground gym uses Palpitoad anyway)

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Most extra baggage for a pair of independant mons focused on fighting styles.

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Yes, 3-stage Bug is an archetype, and was likely the design inspiration. However, we're past gym 2 by this point. We are past the final evolution level for may of the regional bugs, looking for mons that might start to be usable late-game once fully evolved.

546-594

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A Grass-type status user associated with the wind.

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A SPA-leaning dancer with the same number of evolution stages as its counterpart

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An aquatic mon with different-coloured forms to split rarity across versions

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A desert-dwelling animal with the Ground type

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I emphasized the concept of a statue-like mon near the ruins entrance over the typing here. I do have plans for its later version exclusive counterpart Golurk down the line.

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It's a cactus.

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Surprisingly few Rock types feel like they fit a desert with old ruins.

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Another Dark type I associate with badlands environments

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There are a lot of gen 5 ruins, so filling them all out ends up using a lot of the list.

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Being a common encounter drops out Spiritomb, after which Dusclops/Noir feel the most ancient of the availible ghost types.

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Felt the need to split up the fossils between gens due to different concepts: the classic rock/water from gen 1 and a glass cannon mon (in a different method) to match Archeops.

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A harder call given how much muk/weezing are paired. Garbodor feels like it fits into a trio.

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A hard one. At the time, they were event mons, but they were also used by a prominent NPC so a full mythical is out. I considered Rotom as an 'assumed legendary' in gen 4, but with hidsight I feel it diminishes N being able to talk to pokemon if his nonlegendary ace is intellegible in later games. I ended up going with another gen 4 mon that felt suitably rare.

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A more midgame Normal type with a preference for tail-based moves

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Paired three-stage Psychic lines. I actually considered compressing down to just the Ralts line here, since it provides its own counterpart and neither line uses Alakazam's trade evo.

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Water/Flying is all I got.

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The singular nonlegendary vagely inorganic pre-gen 5 Ice line gets prioritized here since I felt that animals didn't really fit with the Cold Storage. Even then, I'm not super satisfied since it doesn't fit the mold as much to me. The later-introduced Bergmite could have worked, but within the scope of gen 5 and below, I find that one of the most maligned designs is one of the hardest to get a satisfying replacement for.

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The season mechanic won't have any good pre-gen 5 representation. I could either pick one line with a weather theme (as shown here) or try to put four different lines for each season all in one encounter slot.

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Doesn't show off the new battle styles like plusle/minun, and it's encountered too late for a terrible mon with a mediocre stone evolution. Only one option remains.

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One of a pair of Bug-type rivals. Scyther was considered given the evolution, but I feel it breaks the symmetry too much

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We're close enough to Chargestone cave to justify an Electric type, and the main point of the deisgn is to be this game's pokeball mimic.

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Common ocean encounter with a jellyfish.

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A rare ocean encounter with high HP. Mantine was considered as a more focused support mon, but its evolution requires bringing along Remoraid as well.

595-649

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At the end of the day is serves a story purpose of having constructed a web that needs to be cleared, so it has to be another spider mon. Might have gotten shifted to the route in front rather than inside the cave.

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A cave-dwelling Steel type.

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A Steel type that evolves by adding more to itself. Despite being pure Steel, the Klink line learns several Electric moves as (its only) coverage.

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I am running out of terrestrial Electric types. This felt like the most monstrous and likely to live in a cave.

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Generic aliens to moon-specific wierdos.

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A three-stage Ghost with total dominance over the graveyard encounter table.

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It feels like the most general dragon of the non-pseudo Dragons, as well as the most likely to be a cave encounter.

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Ice type attackers that are actual creatures

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We're out of crystalline Ice mons, but this at least works as a mountain encounter.

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rival bug #2.

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Funny-looking Ground type fish. The pool is pretty thin by this point.

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Much as I hate to admit it, there aren't really any other mixed Fighting mons to use.

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A tower encounter at least works for a Flying type.

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The remaining ruins mon I held for this slot.

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We're hitting late enough that level evolutions from any other gen don't make sense any more. Here's a nonevolving Steel type made of blades.

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Would we have got Raging Bull in this hypothetical game, or still waited for later?

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Version exclusive rivals that could fit with the terrain, one of which is Normal.

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Ends up being awkward with a level evolution this late, but adding Rock gives some extra reason why its prey might adopt the Steel type.

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Forretress is busy, and Wormadam is too weak for this point in the game, so there's only one armoured bug left.

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As far as the more aggressive pseudos go, the trainers end up needing Salamence's Dragon more than Tyranitar's Dark.

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A gift egg that also shows up in champion rosters. Lucario is being used elsewhere, so it isn't just personal bias against that mon. I would expect the Relic Castle postgame encounter to be changed, possibly to Spiritomb since it's in this dex.

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I chose to focus on the 'hero' aspect by using the legendary set associated with providing virtues.

:thundrus:=
A pair of roamers, with a third member done as a static encounter

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Kyruem's position as the forgotten one fits a lot better with Giratina than it does Rayquaza.

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I would have needed to pick the Regis for the Swords if I was going to have an easy link to an extra, so here's a different Water mythical instead

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Mythical with multiple forms that, unlike Deoxys, has a history with this world.

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Not a mythical, but the concept matches up too well.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

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It's a leaf stone evo with similar BST to Pansage to fit into the gym the monkeys were designed for, and Exeggutor was often used for gen 1 trainers as the Grass slot when they weren't getting Venusaur.

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Not the biggest fan of breaking the stone evo symmetry, but both Growlithe and Vulpix are locked into Abilities that will influence the battle beyond a typing tutorial. Ponyta can at least use Run Away instead.

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Shellder's also in consideration, but I decided to not mess up the FWG matchups and to have something that can show off Scald where it's still fresh

Gonna be annoying here - I'd argue that, types aside, the clearest analogies to the monkey trio are the three original Eeveelutions.

In Gen I Eevee was a highly useful crutch to augment your starter; each of its evolutions were highly powerful Pokemon you could evolve right away. Yeah there wasn't a Grass one, but Grass is common enough that it's not a big loss and the game pushes Bulbasaur hard anyway.

The monkeys serve precisely the same role: you get the one weak to your starter, which is advantaged against the type your starter is weak to. While the monkey trio sucks compared to the Eeveelution trio, the overall role they play is more or less the same. Jolteon covers the Water-types Charizard dislikes, Flareon covers the Grass-types Blastoise has trouble with, and Vaporeon covers the Fire-types Venusaur can't beat.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

The elemental monkeys are kind of a weird thing, but I'd say they're a mix of two different Pokemon: Pikachu and Eevee, as far as comparing them to Gen 1 Pokemon, and combine the gameplay aspects of them from RBY in different ways.

They're like Pikachu in that they are encountered relatively early in the game, and share the honor of being rare encounters in the first forest of the region, which in Unova's case is Pinwheel Forest, amongst com mons like the bird and bugs. This is like how Pikachu was a rare spawn in Viridian Forest that stood out both for its design and the fact that it was an Electric-type, which made it highly valuable early on. They, like Pikachu, evolve once via an evolutionary stone, and also change their name similarly to Pikachu. Pikachu goes from Pikachu to Raichu, likewise the monkeys go from Pan-second syllable to Simi-second syllable. In Japanese this throughline is kept where they go from -ppu to -kki.

The Simis are a lot like Raichu stats and movepool wise, with good Speed and good mixed offensive stats combined with a wide offensive movepool, making them usable, albeit unimpressive, and outclassed by more specialized options later on, but overall decent.

I think X and Y even alluded to this parallel as well, since all three monkeys and Pikachu share spawn rates in Santalune Forest.

Of course yes, they also share parallels with Eevee in that there are three of them, three elemental types represented among them, with one monkey being given to you as a gift, much like how Eevee was a gift Pokemon back in RBY. And while you had a choice, ideally they would complement your starter well, only the Eeveelutions boasted high stats and were among the stronger members of their types with 430 BST at the time (5 higher than the starters at 425).

So in a sense they are an oddball of being a weird hybrid of two different families with different gameplay functions but both Eevee and Pikachu were particularly unique among the Gen 1 roster.

Marketability wise Pansage, Pansear, and Panpour definitely feel like they're meant to be cute like Eevee and Pikachu, that said they never really took off especially when their evolutions are significantly less popular than the likes of Raichu or any of the Eeveelutions (Simisage, Simisear, and Simipour are generally seen as "ugly"). Eevee and Pikachu are also just a lot cuter than any of the Pan monkeys in my eyes and have always had more standout appeal. Although the Pans are admittedly getting their chance to shine in something now with the upcoming stop motion series Pokemon Concierge, which has the three playing a major role.

 

[Nickeljorn]

Don't have any replacement ideas (yet) but this reminded me of how Chuggaaconroy says the lack of palette swaps are one of the things he likes most about Pokemon, because they're one of his RPG pet peeves.

 

[bdt2002]

Going to address a few Pokémon I've seen brought up in posts so far, but I'm not also not specifically quoting any one user with said post. Hopefully that made sense lol

First up: > , >

Something that's always interested me about this comparison is the lack of an Electric-Type member of the monke "trio", although technically if they did add one it would be a quartet now. I honestly don't hate these Pokémon and while I do agree with them being the best replacements for Vaporeon and Flareon, one has to wonder if Jolteon really fits the original type triangle. Normally I'd try and find some other Pokémon for the Grass/Electric slot of this... "trio", but as luck would have it we can actually cheat a little bit here. Generation 8 fans may recall that that was when Eevee actually gained the ability to use a Leaf Stone to evolve into a Leafeon, presumably because Galar doesn't have designated Mossy and Ice Rocks for the Sinnoh Eeveelutions. The cheating, of course, comes from the fact you can't do this in the Generation 5 games. Further adding to this comparison, your rival (Hau) in... I think it's Ultra Sun & Moon? does use one of the Grass, Fire, or Water Eeveelutions on his team similar to how the Gen 5 rivals all have their own monke.

The next step with this comparison would be to somehow figure out a way that the gift monke in the Dreamyard would be replaced with an Eevee, while still letting the Striaton (did I spell that right?) Gym's type triangle theme give the player an advantage with the newly chosen gift Pokémon. I suppose you could just give the player a Level 10 Leafeon, Flareon, or Vaporeon, and while that might sound broken for this point in the game, you'd have to consider that other Trainers who do use the monkes would also have their swaps made. Enjoy having an evolved Eevee by the first Gym, guys.

Next up: & replacing... who exactly?

I understand the visual theme that QuentinQuonce was going for here, and while I definitely like this idea (especially since it helps with teambuilding for the Elite Four's Caitlin), my main point of interest doesn't come from what you might expect. You may have been expecting me to say something about trade evolutions, and while that's definitely true, my other concern actually has to do more with Unova's Psychic and Ghost-Types all being relatively slow on average. The fastest options from either type, those being Swoobat and Sigilyph, do have the high Speed one can expect from a fully evolved Flying-Type, but not only are we already probably going to use Woobat elsewhere, but they also don't really mesh well with our three stage evolution goal. Alakazam replacing one of either Gothitelle or Reuniclus does make sense, with the speedy tendencies of Alakazam and Gengar honestly just being more of a nitpick I have. As far as Gengar, the best option I could see here is with it being Chandelure's replacement. There isn't too much to mention here aside from Generation 5's level scaling allowing most wild Litwick to be replaced with Haunter instead of Gastly, and that another evolution stone is required for Chandelure, which similar to trading doesn't have a specific level requirement.

Overall, I think what I may end up doing for the final version of my list is place down the Ralts family from Hoenn as replacements for the Gothita family, and allow Abra and Gastly to replace their slower Unova counterparts of Solosis and Litwick respectively. My only issue with this option is that Black version players wouldn't have to make use of a trade for Gardevoir's evolution, but if we can find a way around this we should be good. The flip side of this coin is that these changes could help provide Unova with a bit of extra Speed for both of these types that may be lacking otherwise.

 

[Scorpio]

Here’s one that I at least think is obvious:

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I mean come on. They’re both Psychic-type, based off tapirs, and come relatively early-game (tho Munna comes a fair bit sooner in Unova than Drowzee does in Kanto)

 

[KalosianPorygon]

Thanks Ironmage for the idea:

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Swords of Justice > Legendary Titans
A trio of optional Legendary Pokémon that are required to unlock a fourth:

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I know this is a stretch to call these two groups counterparts, but I always tied Keldeo to an event that involves the three other ungulates, just like how Regigigas can only appear if Regirock, Regice, and Registeel are in the player's party.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

... Now I want to see what a BW1 hack with only Kanto mons would look like.

Speaking of which, there's merit in taking into consideration where the Unova mons were found in BW1, as the single-player RPG design mentality of that game definitely influenced how certain lines were made.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Guess it's not too late to comment on this. I pretty much agree with a majority of Ironmage choices, but I have a few changes:

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Yes, 3-stage Bug is an archetype, and was likely the design inspiration. However, we're past gym 2 by this point. We are past the final evolution level for may of the regional bugs, looking for mons that might start to be usable late-game once fully evolved.

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An aquatic mon with different-coloured forms to split rarity across versions

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A desert-dwelling animal with the Ground type

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I emphasized the concept of a statue-like mon near the ruins entrance over the typing here. I do have plans for its later version exclusive counterpart Golurk down the line.

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Surprisingly few Rock types feel like they fit a desert with old ruins.

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There are a lot of gen 5 ruins, so filling them all out ends up using a lot of the list.

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Felt the need to split up the fossils between gens due to different concepts: the classic rock/water from gen 1 and a glass cannon mon (in a different method) to match Archeops.

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A hard one. At the time, they were event mons, but they were also used by a prominent NPC so a full mythical is out. I considered Rotom as an 'assumed legendary' in gen 4, but with hidsight I feel it diminishes N being able to talk to pokemon if his nonlegendary ace is intellegible in later games. I ended up going with another gen 4 mon that felt suitably rare.

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The season mechanic won't have any good pre-gen 5 representation. I could either pick one line with a weather theme (as shown here) or try to put four different lines for each season all in one encounter slot.

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We're close enough to Chargestone cave to justify an Electric type, and the main point of the deisgn is to be this game's pokeball mimic.

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Common ocean encounter with a jellyfish.

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At the end of the day is serves a story purpose of having constructed a web that needs to be cleared, so it has to be another spider mon. Might have gotten shifted to the route in front rather than inside the cave.

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A cave-dwelling Steel type.

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Funny-looking Ground type fish. The pool is pretty thin by this point.

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Much as I hate to admit it, there aren't really any other mixed Fighting mons to use.

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The remaining ruins mon I held for this slot.

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We're hitting late enough that level evolutions from any other gen don't make sense any more. Here's a nonevolving Steel type made of blades.

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Version exclusive rivals that could fit with the terrain, one of which is Normal.

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I understand the want for different Bug-types than the Gen Bug, but we need this to be Bug/Poison family for both Burgh's BW Gym Team and notably Roxie's Ace. Luckily, we don't need it to remain a Bug-type past the first few Gyms. Therefore, I suggest the Skorupi family. Skorupi can be used on BW Burgh's team (he drops using Whirlipede in BW2 so it can be Roxie's Ace) and Drapion fits right into Roxie's style (infact she uses one in the Pokemon World Tournament, though it's easy enough to fill that gap with another Poison-type).

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While for the gimmick Shellos family fits, I would prefer to stick with a fresh water fish. Why fresh water? There's a small gimmick between Cress's and Marlon's teams in BW2: Marlon uses animals which live in mostly salt water, Cress uses animals which live in fresh water. Cress uses a Basculin, and being a waiter you can also say there's a food theme too. So, taking that into account, I'd choose Qwilfish to replace Basculin as some species of pufferfish live in fresh water and they're infamously used in the fugu dish.

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Unfortunetly this is a case where you need two families. Sandile family were the first Ground/Dark-type and both Clay and Grimsley uses the family. With Clay replacing his with the Sandshrew family we need a Dark-type for Grimsley. Since the Sandshrew family has taken the desert niche of Sandile, this Dark-type is free to be whatever would be more fitting to Grimsley. As a gambler from a ruined aristocrat family, I'd go with Absol, Grimsley seems like a guy who would have that sardonic sense of humor.

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Yes, I'm replacing a Level Evo with a Stone Evo, but I have a reason. First off, Chili uses a Darmanitan so like to keep it Fire-type. Second, Darmanitan is an important Pokemon to N, he grew up with one until Ghetsis took him in. So not only does it need to be a Fire-type, I feel it needs to be one I can see tending to a child, and of the choices I feel Arcanine is the best.

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We need it to be Bug-type for Burgh. Plus I can see the Sandy Cloak variety living in the desert.

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Both Skyla and Caitlin use one, so need a Psychic/Flying-type. Natu also fits in with a ruins environment.

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Skyla uses Archeops so gotta be a Flying Fossil.

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Grimsley doesn't use one so don't got to worry about Type. But, as you mentioned, it needs to be a special Pokemon as the Zorua family has a special connection to N. Well, if you need a biped canine with special powers, may as replace the attempted copy with the original (and I bet a skilled enough Lucario could use aura to disguise itself).

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So Cilan doesn't use a Sawsbuck, but Lenora does, so we need it to be a Normal-type more than a Grass. But, with it having the different forms gimmick (based on seasons which can be linked with weather), how about we play with that: make it Castform.

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Need a Poison-type for Roxie. We could go for another Grass/Poison, it's not needed, but no reason not to as well. Too bad Paras family isn't part Poison, though would make more sense as FUNGUS AREN'T PLANTS GF! Guess the next best thing is an unsuspecting flower that ends up smelling like a corpse (or does a hula dance). Surprising indeed.

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Another twofer as both Shauntal and Marlon uses one and they were the first Water/Ghost. Tentacool family is fine for Water, matche's Marlon's salt water theme too. As for Ghost, I feel the only choice is the Drifloon family.

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Burgh doesn't use Joltik, but Elesa does Galvantula. And since I replaced your Voltorb substitute, I'm free to use it here! So we still get our Poke Ball mimic afterall! Now if only we can find someplace to place the Paras family.

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Ask and you shall receive! Cilan uses a Ferrothorn so need a Grass-type, and while there's probably some better Grass-types to use, I just want to have the Paras family since I couldn't for Foongus family.

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Odd choice for Elesa, but she has one and Clay doesn't so we need the replacement to be Electric-type. And we just so happen to have one other electric fish, huzzah!

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Already used Riolu above, I feel Mienfoo and Mefitite would share similar vibes.

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Clay and Shauntal use a Golurk which is the first Ground/Ghost, sigh. I feel the two I selected have obvious enough parallels and fitting for the important NPCs.

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Steel is all nice and good but Grimsley needs a Dark-type... F*** it, Tyranitar.

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Skyla use both so both have to be Flying-type. On top of that, Lenora uses Braviary so it has to be Normal-type, luckily the Starly family is available. Now I could have gone with Murkrow family for Vullaby, but since we don't have to and I've taken away a few Steel-types I'll place Skarmory here.