RTM Tournament

[vonFiedler]

I mentioned this before a recent RTM as kind of a joke, but immediately I started wondering "Is this feasible?".

Here's the basic format for the tournament itself, please comment if you've got a better system in mind. After sign-ups, you'd figure out how many people you'd want in each game (with 42 participants, you could have 14 people per game). Then each person gets three games in the first round. The tournament follows a point system, with the lowest scoring players rotated out after 3 games.

1 point for winning as Village
2 points for winning as Mafia
1 additional point for living to the end (and winning) as either of the above
5 points for winning as the Wolf

After round 1 (9 games total in this example), the lowest scoring players are rotated out and the scores are reset. In the last round, the player with the highest score wins.

Each game should slightly differ in what roles are used, but major changes and complicated set-ups should be avoided (at least until the final round maybe). Games should also not have a theme I think. The tournament itself could have multiple hosts for running games at different times.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

I think the playerbase in numbers may be a problem here. I doubt we'll get a lot of people, at least for the first attepmts at this, and even if we do get around 30 people, 10-man games are still rather small.

 

[UncleSam]

The problem is...how long one survives in mafia is simply a function of how often someone is randed. For instance, if the inspector AND the mafia AND the wolf all decide they will make it their sole goal to kill me unless I am on their team, I am never going to survive to the end of any game. Plus, when it gets down to it, people will end up killing other people just to avoid some people gaining points, not necessarily to win the given mafia game. On top of this, you would need 42 dedicated people, 14 of whom would have to all get on at the same time, which I don't see happening due to time zones.

I don't like this idea simply because you can't give out "points" in mafia based on results-sometimes one can play perfectly and get 0 points in this example, or play extremely poorly and gain multiple points.

But hey, all that means is I wouldn't play in such a format, if others are interested in it I would watch with an attentive eye to see how it goes.

 

[vonFiedler]

The problem is...how long one survives in mafia is simply a function of how often someone is randed. For instance, if the inspector AND the mafia AND the wolf all decide they will make it their sole goal to kill me unless I am on their team, I am never going to survive to the end of any game. Plus, when it gets down to it, people will end up killing other people just to avoid some people gaining points, not necessarily to win the given mafia game. On top of this, you would need 42 dedicated people, 14 of whom would have to all get on at the same time, which I don't see happening due to time zones.

I don't like this idea simply because you can't give out "points" in mafia based on results-sometimes one can play perfectly and get 0 points in this example, or play extremely poorly and gain multiple points.

But hey, all that means is I wouldn't play in such a format, if others are interested in it I would watch with an attentive eye to see how it goes.

Sometimes you can play perfectly on Shoddy and still lose. Doesn't mean there aren't tournaments for that.

I do understand that some players get randed more than others, but you're a good player. Yesterday, mekkah flawlessly won as mafia. In hindsight, I can't believe no one lynched him after he survived night 1. But he knew what he was doing and that's how he won.

Now, more unique to this format is people trying to prevent others from earning points. But if you kill a player ahead of you in points and he ends up being your inspector, you dun goofed.

I think the playerbase in numbers may be a problem here. I doubt we'll get a lot of people, at least for the first attepmts at this, and even if we do get around 30 people, 10-man games are still rather small.

Well, the gist of it was that people would be more likely to sign up for some sort of tournament than to just show up at a random RTM.

 

[Aura Guardian]

The first mafia games ever saw the villagers getting 1 point each for every surviving villager, and the mafia 1 point each per villager (if they won, of course). Just something to consider. The wolf would be problematic for that, though, having not been present at the first games. Maybe 1 per villager, 2 per mafia? Also, yeah, for the tournament like you described, one point for survival would be a must.

Also, to solve one problem UncleSam mentioned: make alts on IRC mandatory, and make the alts change every so often. Namekills would happen less that way.

 

[vonFiedler]

The first mafia games ever saw the villagers getting 1 point each for every surviving villager, and the mafia 1 point each per villager (if they won, of course). Just something to consider.

Also, to solve one problem UncleSam mentioned: make alts on IRC mandatory, and make the alts change every so often. Namekills would happen less that way.

The scoring system could stand to be changed, sure. I love the alts idea though, it should definitely be put into play. Anyway, the whole reason we'd run 3 games per round would be to compensate for skill vs. randomness. Just like how you'd play best 2 out of 3 in most competitive games.

 

[UncleSam]

More relevant is the possibility of deals between the mafia and villagers which have nothing to do with the game at hand...I will give an example:
Player A has 3 points total, and is in third to last place (the bottom two get cut). He is the village inspector in this case.
Player B has 2 points total, he wins the tiebreaker with Player A should he gain the same number of points as Player A. Player B is a regular vanilla villager in this case.
Player C has 1 point total, he wins the tiebreaker with Players A or B should he gain the same number of points. Player C is a mafia member in this case.

Now then, Player B is cleaned by the inspector N0 and steps up for claims. He discovers Player B is mafia when Player B gives a shit fakeclaim.

What should Player B do in this situation? He should lynch Player C and get the BG on Player A or himself. What would he do in this situation? He would lynch someone else and put the BG on himself, telling Player C to kill off Player A. He would then proceed to ensure the village (his own faction) loses, but that Player C agrees to let him live to the end, thus all three players would end up with 3 points, and Player A would be eliminated due to this cross alliance deal between Players B and C.

This is the problem I have with this format, much moreso than anything else, even though I also think it would be impossible to get enough people on at the same time to run this at all. The Shoddy example is bogus because in Mafia, other players can ENSURE you lose. Shoddy does not ensure you lose, it just occassionally gives you bad enough luck where you lose. But it's not like Shoddy conspired against you, or like this happens regularly.

So ya, that's why I don't like this idea. Sorry I wasn't clear enough before.

 

[vonFiedler]

Fixing games would be against the rules. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but if you had to fix the game to win the tournament well don't you just feel special? Anyone caught cheating would be thrown out and I for one probably wouldn't want them in a regular mafia game if I was hosting. Is that worth winning an RTM tournament?

Also, the additional point for living assumes that your side won. Hence why the wolf doesn't get it. Sorry if that wasn't clear, I'll fix it.