RU Stage 5: Cheerleader (Oricorio Pom-Pom Banned)

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Feliburn

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RU Leader

YET ANOTHER SUSPECT TEST!!! This time we'll be suspect testing: Oricorio Pom-Pom.

Ever since Flamigo's dominance in the tier, Oricorio Pom-Pom has seen a meteoric rise in usage. Originally used as one of Flamigo's best answers in the tier, Oricorio is now one of RU's most potent set up sweepers. Thanks to its great typing & the combination of Quiver Dance and Roost and other utility moves like Taunt, Oricorio finds plenty of opportunities to set up vs the most common Pokémon in the tier, including Mudsdale, Copperajah, Bronzong, Passimian (usually choice locked), Altaria (set up fodder against Taunt variants), etc. On top of it, once it terastalizes, Oricorio's Revelation Dance becomes the same type as its tera type, making sweeps incredibly easy as it can get past its common answers without sacrificing a slot on Tera Blast, and it can run plenty of tera types (Steel, Dark, Ground being the main ones) making it really hard to guess which move is the right one to click when trying to revenge kill it. It also provides utility as a Defog user and has access to U-turn, just showcasing how versatile of a Pokémon it is in today's meta.

In terms of counterplay, Oricorio is not a naturally bulky Pokémon by any means. It is usually heavily invested in defense, so it's not really an immediate threat without a couple of Quiver Dances. Gardevoir is perhaps the most common offensive answer, as it can Trace Dancer, copying Quiver Dance and Revelation Dance, usually coming on top of the 1v1 vs it. However, Oricorio can Tera Steel to render Gardevoir's STABs useless vs it. The new additions to the tier are great at handling Oricorio, as Grafaiai can Prankster Encore and Toxic it, while Iron Thorns naturally resists both of Oricorio STABs and has Rock coverage to deal with it. Similarly to Gardevoir, both of them can struggle against the right Tera type, as it can run Dark tera to nullify Prankster, and Ground tera to handle Iron Thorns. It really becomes a game of guessing the right tera type once you let it set up.

We'd love to hear your thoughts on how you feel about Oricorio Pom-Pom. Keep in mind that - as is standard for the forum - one-liners and posts lacking substance are subject to deletion and, in extreme cases, may lead to infractions.
Tagging Kris and Marty to announce it on the RU ladder, thank you both!

GXEminimum games
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8040
80.239
80.438
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80.836
8135
81.234
81.433
81.632
81.831
8230

Suspect information:
  • There will be no draws allowed for any potential qualifiers. If you qualify with draws, your suspect requirements will not count, and you will not be allowed to vote. There is no way to actively enforce ties to prevent abuse, so they will be disallowed. Use stall at your own risk.
  • All games must be played on the Pokémon Showdown! RU ladder on a new alt with the following format: "RUP2 (nickname)”. For example, RUP2 Feliploud or RUP2 NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
  • Do NOT impersonate other people in your ladder alt, do NOT use any usernames which are offensive, flame-baiting, or targeting specific users, and do NOT use usernames which could be interpreted as breaking any of the username rules on Pokémon Showdown! Failure to abide to this will result in you being barred from voting in this suspect, and potential infractions.
  • The suspect test will last for two weeks, ending on Sunday, May 14th. Noon - 5
/!\ NOTICE /!\ RU will not be tolerating any form of voting manipulation. Any attempt to manipulate votes can result in an infraction, loss of eligibility to vote in the current test, and loss of the Tiering Contributor badge. While we won't necessarily enforce super strict punishment, this won't be tolerated and will be handled accordingly. Voting manipulation can simply be described as attempting to get people to vote a way on the test in inappropriate manners. Bribing with teams to vote a certain way, directly messaging people to vote a certain way, publicly announcing "vote this way" all fall under voting manipulation. For more query, feel free to PM me or EviGaro.
 
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It's a bit hard to say what I think about Oricorio. Like on some level I know it's broken but also it just feels so manageable. In april my most used team had a spdef mudsdale with stone edge, and it felt like I was always safe against oricorio. Similarly, most of the teams I have built have had a phazer/hazer that handles it well even if it teras. But then there are those times where I'm playing against it and feel pressured to avoid using my mudsdale or copperajah because it needs to be healthy to handle oricorio, or I watch a tournament game where there is only one specific pokemon that needs to be chipped for oricorio to just win on the spot. I feel like the tier would definitely be more fun without oricorio in it, but if you asked me whether I thought it should be banned I would be less confident.

I feel like this should have been delayed a bit after the new tier shifts, because on one hand we have grafaiai that can keep oricorio from setting up but we also lost Kilowattrel, and spdef mudsdale became bad (oricorio is basically the only thing it needs spdef for and now you need physdef for iron thorns).
 
I just finished reqs so I thought I'd share my thoughts! This ladder run was very eye opening because it revealed to me how crazy Oricorio is making us you guys. There were many games where my opponents were willing to get into the Oricorio Pom-Pom mirror match up and risk the game on whoever gets the hax first. Luckily my team had Scarf Gardevoir, so I was able to not get into a set up war with opposing Oricorio's. I personally never like to get into set up wars vs opposing pokemon, so I don't think it is really healthy for the tier to have this scenario repeat itself so often. While laddering, I was very paranoid of different Oricorio Pom-Pom sets with even Defog being in the back of my mind which totally ruined the momentum of my hazard stack teams. Although I had Iron Thorns and Gardevoir, I never fully felt safe from Oricorio turning a game around because it could have Tera Ground or I may need to keep my scarf on Gardevoir for let's say Salazzle. Ultimately I think Oricorio is unhealthy for the tier and I don't think it should stay.

I found to keep up with all the set up sweepers with the tier, I had to run a team I usually wouldn't run with two Choice Scarfers. The scarfers were Gardevoir and Krookodile, because I knew in most games I would be tricking with Gardevoir anyway to stop any set up sweeps from happening. Here's the team that I used to adapt to this meta's ladder:
Screen Shot 2023-05-06 at 6.58.04 AM.png

https://pokepast.es/a48e0a4f0fa11d10. I call it, The Anti Set up Set up Squad. I know its weak to Rotom-mow but there's so much to cover in this meta I'm sorry its weak to Rotom-mow okay. Anyway I wish you all good luck with getting Reqs!
 

Vulpix03

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RUPL Champion
This is more of an iron thorns post than a corio, although I do think corio should be banned and that's what I'll be voting. It's speed tier coupled with tera makes it too much for the tier imo.

As for thorns, please quick ban it. Solid bulk coupled with the instant attack boost from booster energy makes it a super potent set up sweeper. This is just made worse by the fact that tera makes it hard to revenge kill and gives it a way to break past would be counters like mudsdale.

Overall I don't think it's a healthy presence in the tier. A lot of games are decided by who sets up with thorns first, and as I mentioned above tera makes a lot of would be revenge killers ajd counters have to think twice, and often lose the game of they get the read wrong
 
This is more of an iron thorns post than a corio, although I do think corio should be banned and that's what I'll be voting. It's speed tier coupled with tera makes it too much for the tier imo.

As for thorns, please quick ban it. Solid bulk coupled with the instant attack boost from booster energy makes it a super potent set up sweeper. This is just made worse by the fact that tera makes it hard to revenge kill and gives it a way to break past would be counters like mudsdale.

Overall I don't think it's a healthy presence in the tier. A lot of games are decided by who sets up with thorns first, and as I mentioned above tera makes a lot of would be revenge killers ajd counters have to think twice, and often lose the game of they get the read wrong
To me Iron Thorns is just another "broken" setup sweeper, but it's still one of many like Cetitan, Revavroom, Cloyster, etc. where because there's so many of these, none of them get absurd usage or winrates over the other. This means it's quite difficult to blame any one of these Pokemon yet the tier definitely gets better with any of them removed. Because not any one Pokemon can justifiably be axed by the council the tier is just going to be in a shit spot until it's decided to systematically suspect test them all out 1 by 1 unfortanately.
 

Lime

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In my opinion, oricorio was broken when the metagame was mostly centered around flamigo and cm slowbro. In this meta, as I saw from laddering, most ( almost all ) of the teams prepare for oricorio, be it gardevoir or things like prankster, revavroom (to force tera) paired with bruxish.
The most consistent oricorio answer tho, from what I saw (and used) I found is :-
:gardevoir:

Yeah revelation dance may lock your choiced garde into struggle. But ori takes a shitload of damage from it. Specs garde almost koes it with rev dance. It needs tera to beat it's checks, which makes taunt sets less effective and then it gets countered by cm users like blissey, syvleon, florges etc..

It kinda is like a roll which team and which set you roll against. I think I'll be voting do not ban.
 

Ampha

"They don’t call me Greed for nothing!"
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Will be voting ban, my main concern with Pompom over the other oris, is how easy one pompom set can basically ruin a game itself over, while sensu has(and to a way smaller degree, baile) can still be exploitable pre tera, pom pom is times more difficult because Electric/flying is a phenomenal typing for the tier, with only weaknesses being ice and Rock(which again, can be cheesed w tera) and makes it times more difficult because you have to play accordingly to a possible tera, altho this team could pressure ori to not qd up easily (bruxish tera, roar muds, scarf rotom, torb klefki and even specs zoro shredding its hp off) other teams may use other ways that can be cheesed (taunt preventing phasing from non edge mudsdale and perish altaria, tera steel qding in front of cryo, florges and such, tera ground being a great offensive coverage along with flying while bopping any steel type, tera dark to stop grifaiaiaiaiai from prankster shenanigans, pure flying stab like I used on rupl which could've cheesed me the win and even more unexplored options like tera fight which i saw on ladder)
Not to mention it makes teambuilding more tricky taking the possibilities it has, which makes it a p unhealthy mon overall for me

Squad I used is linked on image btw, its a great team overall
 
Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Soft-Boiled

EVs can surely be optimized, even probably one of the coverage moves, I just did it this way because I've played a lot of ADV. There are a billion great Special sweepers in this tier fsr and Bliss beats all of them with CM.

Now the bad news? There's also a ton of ludicrous physical sweepers that love to see a Blissey that needs to click CM to do anything meaningful. BUT if you're struggling with the dancing bird this will always win against it at least (afaik)
 
Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Soft-Boiled

EVs can surely be optimized, even probably one of the coverage moves, I just did it this way because I've played a lot of ADV. There are a billion great Special sweepers in this tier fsr and Bliss beats all of them with CM.

Now the bad news? There's also a ton of ludicrous physical sweepers that love to see a Blissey that needs to click CM to do anything meaningful. BUT if you're struggling with the dancing bird this will always win against it at least (afaik)
Taunt ori still beats it....

0 SpA Blissey Ice Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio-Pom-Pom: 92-110 (25.9 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

+6 0 SpA Oricorio-Pom-Pom Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 357-421 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 0 SpA Oricorio-Pom-Pom Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 244-288 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Blissey Ice Beam vs. +6 252 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio-Pom-Pom: 34-42 (9.6 - 11.8%) -- possible 9HKO


Best bet is to fish for freeze...
 
Help the brainless guy i am, where is the alt identification thread plz?
I don't think it's up yet m8

Taunt ori still beats it....

0 SpA Blissey Ice Beam vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio-Pom-Pom: 92-110 (25.9 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

+6 0 SpA Oricorio-Pom-Pom Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 357-421 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 0 SpA Oricorio-Pom-Pom Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 244-288 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Blissey Ice Beam vs. +6 252 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio-Pom-Pom: 34-42 (9.6 - 11.8%) -- possible 9HKO


Best bet is to fish for freeze...
You're right, I just flat out hadn't run into many of them. Thankfully now I've faced 2 and spamming IB still wins, but you do need the freeze lol. The dancing bird is probs broken
 
Oricorio feels far too splashable for how easily It can steam roll teams. I basically only used it on HO, but on that playstyle its extremely powerful, it abuses pokemon that cant hit its amazing typing and is just really hard to beat after it starts setting up, tera water just makes it a bit more obnoxious but quiver dance with that typing is just crazy.

Its sensu time now..
 
:sv/grafaiai: From my experience with this funny lemur, I think poison touch is a much better ability than prankster. By now I think everyone is wise to what prankster encore can do and doesn't play into it. And prankster encore just doesn't have too many targets in this tier. You are certifiably insane if you try to punish one of the ground types setting up stealth rocks, and it's also risky switching into some of the setup threats. Also with krookodile and brute bonnet being as good as they are, you often end up in a nasty prediction game with prankster immunities. Poison touch is so good though, you can stack passive damage so easily when your u-turns have a 30% chance to poison.
 
To get off the topic of the bird of prey in the room:

Toedscruel @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Mycelium Might
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm / Giga Drain
- Earth Power
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin

So Toedscruel was a mon basically everyone was wanting to drop for months now, and now its happened. The interesting part about it is is that since it has Tentacruel's stats, it has Tenta's great base 100 speed power. Now normally this wouldn't be a big deal, but here this outspeeds several key Pokemon, notably hazard setters that it wants to spin on. Klefki (immune to T-Wave!), Krookodile, and Revavroom come to mind. Spinblockers also have to fear losing their item due to its Knock Off access as well.

But you might be wondering why I'm trying to run a more offensive spread with this. One is to take advantage of that speed tier, but also against the mons it wants to beat, Grass + Ground is solid coverage, except against Bronzong who fears Knock anyway and has no recovery. The ability is notoriously not good, especially in a tier with no Magic Bounce users or w/e, so not having to worry about that too is a plus. Base 80 Special Attack isn't a lot, but it gets the job done, at the very least reliably 2HKOing (OHKOing with some little chip) the mons it wants to fight against.

Calcs:
252 SpA Toedscruel Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Revavroom: 297-351 (81.5 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Toedscruel Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mudsdale: 350-414 (86.6 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Toedscruel Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Krookodile: 408-482 (123.2 - 145.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Your matchup vs Copper is shaky as Heavy Slam DOES have a slim chance to OHKO, but you reliably 2HKO in return:
252 SpA Toedscruel Earth Power vs. 60 HP / 252 SpD Copperajah: 212-252 (53 - 63%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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