Resource RU Viability Ranking: ORAS Edition

[Magis4Life]

I definitely will want to test Medicham more, but so far after some initial testing I find Medicham to be worthy of C/C+ rank. Though Medicham hits reasonably hard, I honestly prefer the other wallbreaking fighting types (like Hitmonlee, Pangoro, Emboar) who can actually deal some good damage to cress, doublade, and the other bulky psychics in the tier (it hits bronzong pretty hard, but so do the others) . Medicham's main role is a wallbreaker but the fact that it can barely do good damage against the things it tends to draw out kinda sucks. Sure it's high jump kick is strong, but so is Hitmonlee's. As a scarfer, I prefer Emboar, who has better offensive STAB and better, actually powerful coverage such as wild charge for bulky waters like alomomola and slowking (thunderpunch just isn't that powerful especially when Medicham is scarfed.) As an all out attacker/banded, Hitmonlee and Pangoro have better coverage and can handle the rather ubiquitous cresselia, reuniclus, and mesprit courtesy of knock off. I agree with Scrafty that Medicham is simply a worse Hitmonlee/ Emboar (I don't really know what niche it can have over the other two other than a really strong high jump kick, which doesn't do enough against the mons that like to switch in). Medicham's main flaw is that it is just plainly outclassed (not to the extent of Hitmonchan ofc. Given some support, it can put in some work) which is why I think C/C+ is fits it imo.

Edit: C+/B- is probably the way to go. It is rather versatile and the scarf set in particular can clean up well when paired with a good pursuit user like escavalier/drapion. It's psychic STAB in zen headbutt can come in handy against poison types and the fairy types in the tier (something Hitmonlee still struggles with).

 

[Choice Banned]

Unranked ------> C/C- Rank (maybe even D)
After testing Garbodor for a bit, it definitely deserves a rank. Even with subpar bulk, it seems to be able to get at least ONE layer of Spikes/Toxic Spikes up. And as many teams have proven, Hazard Stack teams are a reliable archetype, and the more spikes the setter can get up, the better. However, outside of the ability to set Toxic Spikes, there are some setters that do the job a bit better, which is why I am not suggesting a higher rank.

 

[Ms. Sysbit]

Omastar also has t-spikes for a suicide hazard lead. And outside of aftermath doesn't seem like garbodor has really anything going for it over say omastar, accelgor, crustle, etc. I would say unranked is a pretty fair fit for it.

 

[Kyuzeth]

Gonna discuss a few moves here, as well as spark some new discussion.

MOVES

Mega Steelix (A-) -> A | Repeated nomination, but I feel like Mega Steelix deserves the solid A. Carbon snake can set up on tons of common walls and has great bulk with its usual specially defensive spread, while all-out offensive ones can hit hard without the need to boost. Whether it's Curse, SR or any of their variations, Mega Steelix is pretty much guaranteed to decimate entire teams and can waste Stall without much trouble. Its weaknesses to Fire and Fighting kinda hold it back, especially the former considering its much lower SDef, but it's easily covered and Mega Steelix has a really solid typing overall that makes it synergize with common Pokémon really easily, as well as being able to deal with many top Pokémon in RU. Mega Steelix for A.

Fletchinder (A) -> A+ | I saw a nomination for this earlier and can only support this move to happen. Fletchinder has gained a shitton of value as a revenge killer, what with the rise in Fighting-types thanks to Gligar's departure. Its STAB Acrobatics is more dangerous than ever and the large pool of physical attackers makes Will-O-Wisp all the more useful. Still suffers from a lack of definite power and is kinda hardwalled by some Pokémon, but let it set up and this burd can destroy frailer teams on a whim. Fletchinder for A+.

Eelektross (B+) -> A-/A | Eelektross has become a ton more useful with the recent departures of Serperior, Dragalge, Mega Pidgeot and Mega Sceptile. Its AV set checks things as comfortably as ever before, Volt Switch makes it a great momentum keeper and Knock Off has fantastic utility. With some bigger threats gone and thanks to its gargantuan movepool, Eelektross can run Coil or SubCoil sets to amp up its stats while retaining and gaining bulk; thanks to its brutal coverage, it can tailor any (Sub)Coil sets to hit whatever it needs to deal with for its team. All in all, things are looking bright for Eelektross and that's why it should at least move up to A-, if not A.

Golbat (B+) -> A | Gligar moved to UU, so Golbat now takes its position as the best Defogger in the tier. Like its fellow Flying-type Fletchinder, Golbat appreciates the rise of Fighting-types in RU; aside from Cobalion, all Fighting-types are easily checked thanks to its decently strong Brave Bird coming from 80 Attack. Its Poison-type allows it to check rising threat Slurpuff, as well as wall Aromatisse without much trouble. As most strong special attackers have left, Golbat can run its physically defensive spread again to optimally wall the threats it needs to dispose of. With Cresselia being so big and Golbat's Infiltrator bypassing any Substitutes the swan sets up, Crobat's little bro can easily force it out or wall it, should Cresselia lack any Psychic STABs. Golbat for A.

DISCUSSION

Mega Glalie (A+) -> S | Keep in mind, I merely want to start discussion, nothing else. With the two dominant Megas no longer in RU, there's almost no opportunity cost to using Mega Glalie whatsoever. It's a brutally strong wallbreaker that pretty much decimates anything with its Refrigerate STAB Double-Edges and can just about make the entire tier kneel before it with Explosion. Earthquake is all it needs for coverage, namely to hit Fire- and Steel-types with. It doesn't give a shit about bulky Waters thanks to Freeze-Dry, which thrashes Alomomola, and it's got Ice Shard to pick off weakened or frail Pokémon with. This guy may face some competition from Mega Abomasnow or Mega Steelix, but I'd say Mega Glalie's currently the most dangerous Mega around and worth considering for S.

Changed my mind reading a reply, so I now stand by Mega Glalie remaining in A+.

 

[Ununhexium]

updated op art

 

[Expulso]

DISCUSSION

Mega Glalie (A+) -> S | Keep in mind, I merely want to start discussion, nothing else. With the two dominant Megas no longer in RU, there's almost no opportunity cost to using Mega Glalie whatsoever. It's a brutally strong wallbreaker that pretty much decimates anything with its Refrigerate STAB Double-Edges and can just about make the entire tier kneel before it with Explosion. Earthquake is all it needs for coverage, namely to hit Fire- and Steel-types with. It doesn't give a shit about bulky Waters thanks to Freeze-Dry, which thrashes Alomomola, and it's got Ice Shard to pick off weakened or frail Pokémon with. This guy may face some competition from Mega Abomasnow or Mega Steelix, but I'd say Mega Glalie's currently the most dangerous Mega around and worth considering for S.

Yo, most of your other points are legit, but this is something I really can't agree with. There is definitely opportunity cost to using Mega Glalie; it faces direct competition from the arguably superior Mega Abomasnow, and Mega Banette also fits on offense, which is really the only place you should use this. Yes, it basically tears up 90% of the tier with Double-Edge, and very, very few things are not KOed by Explosion, but the huge recoil it takes really holds it back. At most, this is getting 2 kills per game, and even that's a stretch; offensive teams have many ways to deal with it, such as Scarf Durant, Cobalion, Hitmonlee, and Doublade, while on more defensive teams it cannot hope to break Alomomola, Slowking, etc. It does perform very well against defensive teams, however, setting up Spikes on prospective counters such as Alomomola and whittling away at bulky resists like Doublade with Super Fang; however, I feel like there is too much opportunity cost, and too much fragility, for it to be S.

note that I'm not at all saying this is a bad Pokemon; I wouldn't want to see it any lower than A-rank imo

 

[Natural Talent]

I want to nominate Durant for S. Right now it destroys lowish teams. At +1 it Ohkos most mons after rocks and defensive teams have nothing for it because of it's coverages. It's one of the fastest mons it the tier and the thing that outspeed it don't usually run anything to hurt it. after hustle and hone claws boosts it gets back it's accuracy and it gains an amazing boost in power. This might as well be called the Durant Era.

 

[Ares]

Omastar also has t-spikes for a suicide hazard lead. And outside of aftermath doesn't seem like garbodor has really anything going for it over say omastar, accelgor, crustle, etc. I would say unranked is a pretty fair fit for it.

While Garbodor can be used as a suicide lead, the role that it plays better is coming in continuously throughout a match to lay spikes and to check physically offensive Pokemon with Rocky Helmet and at its time of death, Aftermath. On top of this Garbodor also had more offensive presence with a powerful base 120 move that can also poison things that aren't affected by tspikes. Garbodor is definitely a viable choice and I could see it ranked at C because of the utility it can play throughout a match as opposed to the first couple of turns.

 

[Kyuzeth]

Yo, most of your other points are legit, but this is something I really can't agree with. There is definitely opportunity cost to using Mega Glalie; it faces direct competition from the arguably superior Mega Abomasnow, and Mega Banette also fits on offense, which is really the only place you should use this. Yes, it basically tears up 90% of the tier with Double-Edge, and very, very few things are not KOed by Explosion, but the huge recoil it takes really holds it back. At most, this is getting 2 kills per game, and even that's a stretch; offensive teams have many ways to deal with it, such as Scarf Durant, Cobalion, Hitmonlee, and Doublade, while on more defensive teams it cannot hope to break Alomomola, Slowking, etc. It does perform very well against defensive teams, however, setting up Spikes on prospective counters such as Alomomola and whittling away at bulky resists like Doublade with Super Fang; however, I feel like there is too much opportunity cost, and too much fragility, for it to be S.

note that I'm not at all saying this is a bad Pokemon; I wouldn't want to see it any lower than A-rank imo

Alright, points taken. I now stand by Mega Glalie remaining where it is. Thanks for addressing the information you've listed! I guess recovery, Blizzard and better mixed attacking potential are what make Mega Abomasnow a better Pokémon overall, but I'd like to hear more about it.

 

[Ms. Sysbit]

the thing that outspeed it don't usually run anything to hurt it.

I wouldn't exactly say nothing to hurt it.
252 SpA Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Durant: 234-276 (91 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
That'seven Substitute-Pass without leftovers set. Life Orb variants OHKO 100% of the time
Scarfed Emboar can handle it. As can Scarf Delphox. And Scarfed Moltres but admittedly Life Orb is more common on it now.
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Durant: 123-145 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
Even Fletchinder can do a good chunk which should kill off a wounded Durant.
252+ Atk Life Orb Houndoom Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Durant: 133-156 (51.7 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Similairly for sucker punch users like Doom and Skuntank(228+ Atk Skuntank Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Durant: 102-120 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO)(but admittedly this is underwhelming imo)
252 Atk Life Orb Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Durant: 140-165 (54.4 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even Dugtrio can trap and outspeed and 2 hit Ko it.
I was just saying quite a few mons can handle a wounded Durant. And who lets durant set up for free? Like on what can it (that) safely set up?
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Crunch vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 231-273 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even a specially defensive Almomola can take 1 hit minimum and scald does
0 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Durant: 76-91 (29.5 - 35.4%) -- 23.8% chance to 3HKO
does a decent chunk with a good shot to burn. gettign 2 off means something can revenge kill ant.
I am not saying Durant by any means is not great(it truly is terrifying) but Hone Claws variants are lackluster until they set up(and have Stone Edge accuracy for every move they use until then). In some ways it is like Slurpuff in that it can only set up once and then if it is out its useless or it died before it got a chance. You just need to keep your Scarfer/faster mon alive when handling Durant. While I think S is a bit steep of a jump I support wholeheartedly
A/A+ for Duant.

 

[Ms. Sysbit]

Interesting. I never thought of using it that way as every time I have seen it used(in lower tiers) it was a suicide lead.
My only reservation now is aren't spikes MUCH more useful if up early? plus it cant stop a spin(barring rocky helpmet ko-ing the spinner) nor a defog. And its stats just seem underwhelming imo. But I guess C- or so could work after your convincing Montsegur.

 

[GOthee]

While Garbodor can be used as a suicide lead, the role that it plays better is coming in continuously throughout a match to lay spikes and to check physically offensive Pokemon with Rocky Helmet and at its time of death, Aftermath. On top of this Garbodor also had more offensive presence with a powerful base 120 move that can also poison things that aren't affected by tspikes. Garbodor is definitely a viable choice and I could see it ranked at C because of the utility it can play throughout a match as opposed to the first couple of turns.

I heard Custap REALLY helps with Garbodor, even for a NU pokemon he can stack more spikes and surprise the opponent.

 

[Cowtao]

Crustle - B-
Crustle just keeps getting better the more people test it. It is one of the safest Suicide Leads in the tier thanks to Custap Berry. Very few things can stop this thing from setting up (barring Cincinno). It has a really good niche that set's it apart from other leads like Accelgor and Omastar. It is almost guaranteed to setup Rocks and Spikes in two turns. It also threatens out some common hazard pokemon such as Drapion and Rhyperior. If given even more support, this mon could replace Omastar as the premier suicide lead of RU.

 

[boltsandbombers]

Crustle - B-
Crustle just keeps getting better the more people test it. It is one of the safest Suicide Leads in the tier thanks to Custap Berry. Very few things can stop this thing from setting up (barring Cincinno). It has a really good niche that set's it apart from other leads like Accelgor and Omastar. It is almost guaranteed to setup Rocks and Spikes in two turns. It also threatens out some common hazard pokemon such as Drapion and Rhyperior. If given even more support, this mon could replace Omastar as the premier suicide lead of RU.

While I dont disagree with a Crustle rise in general, Rhyperior has a decent chance to OHKO Crustle with Rock Blast if it gets 4 hits (or if it invests a little more in attack than the usual), which isnt too far out of the picture. And how does it threaten Rhyperior in the first place? Its not like crustle has a water or grass type move. In addition, Drapion can easily just Taunt Crustle since its basically forced to use a Custap Berry over Mental Herb in order to have some relevance in the tier.

Edit: Ok, you can have balls of steel and run power herb solarbeam but I guess thats beside the point.

 

[Natural Talent]

I wouldn't exactly say nothing to hurt it.
252 SpA Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Durant: 234-276 (91 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
That'seven Substitute-Pass without leftovers set. Life Orb variants OHKO 100% of the time
Scarfed Emboar can handle it. As can Scarf Delphox. And Scarfed Moltres but admittedly Life Orb is more common on it now.
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Durant: 123-145 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
Even Fletchinder can do a good chunk which should kill off a wounded Durant.
252+ Atk Life Orb Houndoom Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Durant: 133-156 (51.7 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Similairly for sucker punch users like Doom and Skuntank(228+ Atk Skuntank Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Durant: 102-120 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO)(but admittedly this is underwhelming imo)
252 Atk Life Orb Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Durant: 140-165 (54.4 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even Dugtrio can trap and outspeed and 2 hit Ko it.
I was just saying quite a few mons can handle a wounded Durant. And who lets durant set up for free? Like on what can it (that) safely set up?
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Crunch vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 231-273 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even a specially defensive Almomola can take 1 hit minimum and scald does
0 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Durant: 76-91 (29.5 - 35.4%) -- 23.8% chance to 3HKO
does a decent chunk with a good shot to burn. gettign 2 off means something can revenge kill ant.
I am not saying Durant by any means is not great(it truly is terrifying) but Hone Claws variants are lackluster until they set up(and have Stone Edge accuracy for every move they use until then). In some ways it is like Slurpuff in that it can only set up once and then if it is out its useless or it died before it got a chance. You just need to keep your Scarfer/faster mon alive when handling Durant. While I think S is a bit steep of a jump I support wholeheartedly
A/A+ for Duant.

implying you are running all of those mons. Implying mola is used a lot now. The mons you are choosing to pick mean that it affects the way you think. That would me it changes the way people team build. it can clean up slow team and it can runs a scarfed set too. also houndoom doesn't run max atk adamant smh. It deserves s rank and until you come up with a good counter statement i'm sticking to it

 

[The Bravest Bird]

implying you are running all of those mons. Implying mola is used a lot now. The mons you are choosing to pick mean that it affects the way you think. That would me it changes the way people team build. it can clean up slow team and it can runs a scarfed set too. also houndoom doesn't run max atk adamant smh. It deserves s rank and until you come up with a good counter statement i'm sticking to it

While I don't really mind whether Durant raises or not, it definitely isn't S-rank material. Hustle is honestly its main issue; it gives Durant a lot of power at the cost of reliability. Having accuracy equivalent to Stone Edge for every otherwise reliable move is that much of an issue. While Hone Claws patches this up, its shoddy bulk, especially uninvested, makes it difficult to set up on more offensively inclined teams. While sure, it can clean up slower teams, a lot of other mons are able to do that as well(e.g. Pangoro, Clawitzer) so Durant beating slower teams(which isn't even /that/ true, emboar is solid, camel is a pretty decent check to it, as is doublade on variants lacking crunch) isn't really special. Though it could probably raise to A because the Choice Scarf set is really nice against offense, having nice power for a scarfer and can even run Baton Pass to maintain momentum, it's definitely not S material.

 

[tehy]

For those discussing garbodor, riddle me this:why should i use him over qwilfish?

just off top he seems nearly outclassed, so yea

 

[Natural Talent]

While I don't really mind whether Durant raises or not, it definitely isn't S-rank material. Hustle is honestly its main issue; it gives Durant a lot of power at the cost of reliability. Having accuracy equivalent to Stone Edge for every otherwise reliable move is that much of an issue. While Hone Claws patches this up, its shoddy bulk, especially uninvested, makes it difficult to set up on more offensively inclined teams. While sure, it can clean up slower teams, a lot of other mons are able to do that as well(e.g. Pangoro, Clawitzer) so Durant beating slower teams(which isn't even /that/ true, emboar is solid, camel is a pretty decent check to it, as is doublade on variants lacking crunch) isn't really special. Though it could probably raise to A because the Choice Scarf set is really nice against offense, having nice power for a scarfer and can even run Baton Pass to maintain momentum, it's definitely not S material.

It basically has the power of pangoro but faster, if you don't mind making moves 80% for power it's fine. Not to mention the lack of speed in the tier. It gets to set up on things it forces out

 

[Mistress Remilia]

Can we just rank Lickilicky again? I know it has some echoes, and the competition with Audino who has Regenerator, but seriously:
- Lickilicky's bulk to begin with, is pretty damn sweet. 110/95/95 allows Lickilicky to take quite a few hits, and avoids 2HKOs from hits Audino wouldn't resist, the most known of these moves being Fire Blast from Moltres. His overall bulk even allows him to do well against mixed threats, which is a cool niche.

- Dragon Tail seems so overlooked when it comes to one of Lickilicky's niches, but honestly, Lickilicky should be your choice over Audino if you run a Stall team based around Hazards, Lickilicky makes good use of this move and it can be cool for reads & punish switches. Oh and overall, Lickilicky has okay offensive presence, so against frails mons,
even an uninvested Body Slam will hurt a bit, same goes for Knock Off against mons that are weak to it, and it has utility.

- Last but least, Lickilicky is not one sided like non mega Audino, and has a surprisingly good set in Choice Band. At first, it may look completely outclassed by the likes of most normal types such as Bouffalant. But Lickilicky has 2 powerful tools: Power Whip & Explosion ( eventually Knock Off, since most normal physical attackers lacks it )
Power Whip is very, very useful in RU. It allows Lickilicky to 2HKO Alomomola, 2HKO Rhyperior with a chance of OHKO. These 2 threats are usually very annoying to normal wallbreakers, so the access to something that can kill them is very appreciated )
Explosion is risky, Explosion might not be worth it, but damn, it can save you from getting sweep, or stalled. It pretty much annihilates everything in the tier that isn't a Ghost, and these Ghost won't like getting Knock Off/EQ'd.

I suggest Lickilicky for C for these reasons.

 

[Swagodile]

There's also the fact that Lickilicky can't be taunted. (Oblivious)

 

[Oddish is the best]

Following up on why Durant is just too unreliable... http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-209456433

Those 2 misses cost him the game :o. Really having stone edge accuracy on EVERY MOVE sucks and makes durant a little too unreliable for S rank.

I'd say put it in A.

 

[Natural Talent]

Following up on why Durant is just too unreliable... http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-209456433

Those 2 misses cost him the game :o. Really having stone edge accuracy on EVERY MOVE sucks and makes durant a little too unreliable for S rank.

I'd say put it in A.

that has nothing to do with anything. Don't run the mon if you don't want to miss. If you don't want to miss get up a hone claws. Unreliabilty is in mons stone edge is 70% accurate after Hustle. and idek why you run it over rock slide. and meloetta would keep subbing up on you anyway.

 

[Froggyboy]

Following up on why Durant is just too unreliable... http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-209456433

Those 2 misses cost him the game :o. Really having stone edge accuracy on EVERY MOVE sucks and makes durant a little too unreliable for S rank.

I'd say put it in A.

Wait, so you are saying Durant is too unreliable, yet you are saying to rise it to A?

 

[aVocado]

Wait, so you are saying Durant is too unreliable, yet you are saying to rise it to A?

He's saying it's too unreliable to be in S

 

[Froggyboy]

He's saying it's too unreliable to be in S

Well fuck me then xD

Yeah, Durant isn't S Rank. It misses a lot when you use Hustle, and is too weak without Hustle. Yes, Durant is a good Pokemon, probably should raise too, but it is far from S rank atm.