SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

[Eriorguez]

After the draconian bullshit Nintendo just released about tournaments and general attempt to control what users do with their IP, pretending that VGC is the sole competitive aspect of the game feels like being a corporate shill, ngl.

No seriously, disregarding anything grassroots is pretty much a dick move.

 

[Worldie]

After the draconian bullshit Nintendo just released about tournaments and general attempt to control what users do with their IP, pretending that VGC is the sole competitive aspect of the game feels like being a corporate shill, ngl.

No seriously, disregarding anything grassroots is pretty much a dick move.

I have no idea of what you're talking about, and regardless, BSS/VGC is the only aspect whenever you want it or not.

First, I’m talking singles, second, but something tells me KokoHands will be real popular in VGC.
Second, in STABmons, Spectral Thief is back.
Third, they could suspect Genesect, because it might be balanced now. Defensive and offensive Power Creep have increased drastically, even since last gen.

Daily reminder (to both) that smogon formats do not exist nor matter in any way when it comes to balancing, you're free to go back complaining about Gholdengo now.

And yes, Koko will very likely be super popular in VGC, though if it becomes legal at same time as Miraidon, that'll be a moot point as Miraidon makes Koko completely obsolete.

 

[R_N]

I have no idea of what you're talking about, and regardless, BSS/VGC is the only aspect whenever you want it or not.

Daily reminder that smogon formats do not exist nor matter in any way when it comes to balancing, you're free to go back complaining about Gholdengo now.

When we're on the battle sim website and people say something is scary, i think it's actually very reasonable to assume that they might be talking about the context they play on the battle sim on the battle sim website

Like I get it, VGC is the official one and in relation to certain balancing decisions (or lack there of) yes that's likely why it happens. But this website specifically has other contexts that are still valid when it comes to "oh man, Genesect being brought back could be spooky!"





Also if we're bringing up BSS then Mythics & Restricteds can show up there anyway !

 

[Ironmage]

I have no idea of what you're talking about, and regardless, BSS/VGC is the only aspect whenever you want it or not.

Daily reminder that smogon formats do not exist nor matter in any way when it comes to balancing, you're free to go back complaining about Gholdengo now.

While it may be correct to say that GF does not balance with 6v6 singles in mind as a competitive format, said format demonstrably exists. People play it whether or not GameFreak encourages them do do so. You might as well deny the existence of speedruns for any game that does not provide a built-in timer.

 

[Worldie]

When we're on the battle sim website and people say something is scary, i think it's actually very reasonable to assume that they might be talking about the context they play on the battle sim on the battle sim website

Like I get it, VGC is the official one and in relation to certain balancing decisions (or lack there of) yes that's likely why it happens. But this website specifically has other contexts that are still valid when it comes to "oh man, Genesect being brought back could be spooky!"

Yes, I know it, but as I say a million times, complaining that a format is unbalanced when there's no interest in balancing toward that format is still pointless.

I made a similar comparison somewhere else, it's like trying to play Soccer with 3 balls, and complaining it's too chaotic. Ofc it is, the rules were not made with 3 balls in mind. Or trying to play a Moba with 10 champions instead of 5, duh ofc there's not going to be enough farm for everyone and it'll be a chaotic shitshow.
I really feel people playing "on this sim" should wake up and realize they're trying to balance out a format the game is NOT balanced around in first place instead of acting like 12 years old and screaming at gamefreaks being retards and worse adjectives in every other "official smogon format" topic (yes, I do read these, I have lost count of how many complaints about the game being unbalanced and gamefreaks incompetence are there).

Or, like others say and complain about, keep the fucking smogon competitive things out of OI considering this is meant to be the *casual* part of the forum and mainly related to the cartridges either ways.

 

[Fracterra]

After the draconian bullshit Nintendo just released about tournaments and general attempt to control what users do with their IP, pretending that VGC is the sole competitive aspect of the game feels like being a corporate shill, ngl.

No seriously, disregarding anything grassroots is pretty much a dick move.

Nintendo needs to embrace tournaments, and realize what it does for their sales

Yes, I know it, but as I say a million times, complaining that a format is unbalanced when there's no interest in balancing toward that format is still pointless.

I made a similar comparison somewhere else, it's like trying to play Soccer with 3 balls, and complaining it's too chaotic. Ofc it is, the rules were not made with 3 balls in mind. Or trying to play a Moba with 10 champions instead of 5, duh ofc there's not going to be enough farm for everyone and it'll be a chaotic shitshow.
I really feel people playing "on this sim" should wake up and realize they're trying to balance out a format the game is NOT balanced around in first place instead of acting like 12 years old and screaming at gamefreaks being retards and worse adjectives in every other "official smogon format" topic (yes, I do read these, I have lost count of how many complaints about the game being unbalanced and gamefreaks incompetence are there).

Or, like others say and complain about, keep the fucking smogon competitive things out of OI considering this is meant to be the *casual* part of the forum and mainly related to the cartridges either ways.

Hopefully no asshat reports this place to TPC/GF, in risk of this place getting shut down. So many communities ruined by one person. Exspecially not Verlisify, who hates Smogon with a passion

I have no idea of what you're talking about, and regardless, BSS/VGC is the only aspect whenever you want it or not.

Daily reminder (to both) that smogon formats do not exist nor matter in any way when it comes to balancing, you're free to go back complaining about Gholdengo now.

And yes, Koko will very likely be super popular in VGC, though if it becomes legal at same time as Miraidon, that'll be a moot point as Miraidon makes Koko completely obsolete.

About Mirai and Koko, fair, but also, I defended Gholdengo, and the numbers show he ain’t that broken, in fact I believed he was kind average at best.

 

[lydian]

Hopefully no asshat reports this place to TPC/GF, in risk of this place getting shut down. So many communities ruined by one person. Exspecially not Verlisify, who hates Smogon with a passion

i feel like they def know about smogon / ps! and just decide not to act on it for some reason. small rom hacks get taken down all the time, much smaller than smogon / ps!

 

[Fracterra]

i feel like they def know about smogon / ps! and just decide not to act on it for some reason. small rom hacks get taken down all the time, much smaller than smogon / ps!

Maybe they don’t see it in the same legal vein? PS! isn’t a game, but a online battle simulator, not a full-fledged game, so it doesn’t interfere with their sales. Also, from what leaks are saying, HToAZ: ID is looking to be massive and the darkest story that any Pokemon game has.

 

[lydian]

Maybe they don’t see it in the same legal vein? PS! isn’t a game, but a online battle simulator, not a full-fledged game, so it doesn’t interfere with their sales. Also, from what leaks are saying, HToAZ: ID is looking to be massive and the darkest story that any Pokemon game has.

whats htoazid?

 

[R_N]

Yes, I know it, but as I say a million times, complaining that a format is unbalanced when there's no interest in balancing toward that format is still pointless.

I made a similar comparison somewhere else, it's like trying to play Soccer with 3 balls, and complaining it's too chaotic. Ofc it is, the rules were not made with 3 balls in mind. Or trying to play a Moba with 10 champions instead of 5, duh ofc there's not going to be enough farm for everyone and it'll be a chaotic shitshow.
I really feel people playing "on this sim" should wake up and realize they're trying to balance out a format the game is NOT balanced around in first place instead of acting like 12 years old and screaming at gamefreaks being retards and worse adjectives in every other "official smogon format" topic (yes, I do read these, I have lost count of how many complaints about the game being unbalanced and gamefreaks incompetence are there).

Or, like others say and complain about, keep the fucking smogon competitive things out of OI considering this is meant to be the *casual* part of the forum and mainly related to the cartridges either ways.

I agree that yeah sometimes people miss the forest for the trees on balance concerns, but that doesn't stop the fact that it does exist and its where the OI forums are. The discussion's going to come up, it's a natural part of things




Anyway Nintendo's tournament rules I don't think apply to Pokemon's tournaments in this case anyway, and smogon specifically would probably skate on by since the big issue is Tournaments over a certain size, in real life. So probably more nugget bridge stuff.

 

[Fracterra]

whats htoazid?

Hidden treasure of area zero, didn’t want to write all that.
Yes
From zombie npcs, Khu asking which we will save, is seeming kinda grim for a pokemon game

 

[AztecCroc]

i feel like they def know about smogon / ps! and just decide not to act on it for some reason. small rom hacks get taken down all the time, much smaller than smogon / ps!

Rom hacks are based on direct code by them, Showdown is not. They cannot legally take it down like they can a rom hack.

 

[spookysocialist]

Rom hacks are based on direct code by them, Showdown is not. They cannot legally take it down like they can a rom hack.

Source: dude just trust me bro

 

[salamiReal]

iirc showdown is in contact with TPC and they allow them to keep running under certain conditions, like being in “beta” forever. theyre probably smart enough to realize that shutting it down would be terrible pr and not very beneficial for their bottom line anyway

 

[Worldie]

iirc showdown is in contact with TPC and they allow them to keep running under certain conditions, like being in “beta” forever. theyre probably smart enough to realize that shutting it down would be terrible pr and not very beneficial for their bottom line anyway

Whatever smogon does in order to not incurr in TPC ire is not publically disclosed anywhere.

Regardless, Nintendo specifically has always been iperprotective of their IPs and never feared taking extremely unpopular approaches (es: shutting down Smash tournaments during COVID because they were using a modded version and rather letting the game completely die than be played on a mod). If they ever decide that showdown (not smogon, which is a separate thing) has to go down, they will nuke it.

 

[Talpr0ne]

If thus includes Mythicals, well, that’ll be very scary
Zeraora, the Tapus, Marshadow, Genesect, Victini, etc

Legendaries and Mythicals are two separate groupings, one being included in full does not necessarily need to imply the other also being included in full. SWSH did not feature every mythical after Crown Tundra, so it's pretty likely SV won't as well after Indigo Disk.

 

[lydian]

Rom hacks are based on direct code by them, Showdown is not. They cannot legally take it down like they can a rom hack.

right but ps is unquestionably using their intellectual property and mimicking the way their game plays. i feel like they could take it down if they wanted to. no?

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

I honestly think we'll gET to fight Tera legendaries shiny locked. we'll probably fly over some crystals and stuff

 

[R_N]

I honestly think we'll gET to fight Tera legendaries shiny locked. we'll probably fly over some crystals and stuff

If they're tied to a side thing, I'd be pretty surprised if they were shiny locked. Someone like, I dunno, Enamorus (Perrin sidequest, maybe) or Cosmog/Kubfu (probably gifts which they like to shiny lock lately) sure but if we're doing roundabout stuff to fight Reshiram in a tera battle that's probably shiny-capable

 

[Pax_Unda]

I'm pretty sure they'll be unlocked, the big reason GF does locking (besides promoting events) is because they want consistent palettes between the models that appear in cutscenes/static encounters and the ones that appear in gameplay - this can be seen most plainly in how they locked the Ariados in the Bloodmoon quest of all things. Besides, a big part of the appeal of the legendary catch-a-thons is being able to catch legit shinies of previously-locked Pokemon.

 

[StompyStomps]

If all legends come back, the Lati twins are on my main threat list, assuming they keep Mystical Fire, so they can melt steel beams

 

[StompyStomps]

Legendaries and Mythicals are two separate groupings, one being included in full does not necessarily need to imply the other also being included in full. SWSH did not feature every mythical after Crown Tundra, so it's pretty likely SV won't as well after Indigo Disk.

Who thought that all legends and mythicals would comeback? Like, what? Maybe his reasoning is that Mythicals are a sub-group of legendaries

 

[AztecCroc]

right but ps is unquestionably using their intellectual property and mimicking the way their game plays. i feel like they could take it down if they wanted to. no?

Not as long as it isn't actively making money. How copyright works is a lot narrower than a lot of people think (mostly due to places like YouTube allowing it to be enforced far beyond what is actually legal), it's why all the TCG simulators stay up, even the MtG ones despite WotC being notoriously litigious about anything to do with it. Same for the various fan fiction sites.

They can kill a rom hack because it requires a rom of their game itself (something of a grey area, as roms are not technically illegal in and of themselves but distribution of them sort of is) and thus they can take them down on the grounds of piracy. Showdown is not derived from their code base, and merely copying the functionality of their games is not illegal as that cannot actually be copyrighted. The most they could technically do is make us remove the sprites for the pre-3D gens since they did make those.

 

[pika pal]

Not as long as it isn't actively making money. How copyright works is a lot narrower than a lot of people think (mostly due to places like YouTube allowing it to be enforced far beyond what is actually legal), it's why all the TCG simulators stay up, even the MtG ones despite WotC being notoriously litigious about anything to do with it. Same for the various fan fiction sites.

They can kill a rom hack because it requires a rom of their game itself (something of a grey area, as roms are not technically illegal in and of themselves but distribution of them sort of is) and thus they can take them down on the grounds of piracy. Showdown is not derived from their code base, and merely copying the functionality of their games is not illegal as that cannot actually be copyrighted. The most they could technically do is make us remove the sprites for the pre-3D gens since they did make those.

On the Rom point, what is the area (whether precedent or simply theoretical) for a method I've seen where tools to apply something like a Mod or a Translation patch are distributed but a ROM to actually apply them to is the user's responsibility (inevitably pirated but the Mod maker has plausible deniability there)? I remember that being a method for some old SNES and GBA game mods I saw people try out a decade or 2 ago.

 

[AztecCroc]

On the Rom point, what is the area (whether precedent or simply theoretical) for a method I've seen where tools to apply something like a Mod or a Translation patch are distributed but a ROM to actually apply them to is the user's responsibility (inevitably pirated but the Mod maker has plausible deniability there)? I remember that being a method for some old SNES and GBA game mods I saw people try out a decade or 2 ago.

I'm not entirely sure to be honest, it seems to be fine but I have seen certain sites stop allowing them for specific rom hacks after Nintendo goes after a pre-patched version elsewhere.
So probably fine given the actual patch making and patch applying software is fine. Especially given how much they seems to dislike the English patch for Mother 3 but also haven't been able to touch it.