Battle Spot Screens + Dragon and friends

[Solerme]

Hi folks, this my Battle Spot Singles team.
Before i get started i hope you will forgive my poor english, i'll try my best to be as much clear as i can.
The team is a pretty simple and straightforward screens + Mega Mence team. The idea behind was to reach good scores on both, PS and cart, with the underestimated dual screens strategy, and with a pokemon that i think it can do a pretty decent job in this tier: Espeon.
Actually i'm pretty happy with the scores i reached, peaking #11 on the BSS Showdown ladder ( http://postimg.org/image/6qez0o0dn/ ) and achieving nearly 1800 points on cart with a score of 44-19 ( i'm actually 1° in my country http://postimg.org/image/6kus787sr/ ) , so i'm here to share my team with you guys, hoping you will like it as much as i do.


Team at glance:

Building process:

As strange as it can be, starting a team from a supporter pokemon is probably not a the best idea. But i would be lieing if i don't say that everything started from Espeon. I wanted to try the dual screen set, pairing it with a strong "boosting" sweeper and a partner in crime that synergize well with it.
I felt that the combination of Salamence, being a very strong attacker in the meta, and Ferrothorn to cover his weakness and checking some of his counters, was what i was searching for.

At this point i had a solid screen + dual combo that was pretty weak to Greninja and Mega Gengar. Assault Vest Conkeldurr seemed like a decent answer to them, while also being able to switch on special attacks or status moves that could threaten Salamence.

Since a team must adapt to multiple situations, i wanted to complete the Dragon/Steel/Fairy core.
This was pretty good in situations where i didn't want to go for the screens, leaving Espeon in the bench, and also to have a screens + Dragon/Fairy combo.

In the end i felt like i needed more speed control, and another way to pressure Greninja, Gengar or Cresselia. With Thunder Wave support plus the combination swagger and foul play, Klefki seemed a good candidate to fill the last spot of my team.

After playing with my team for a while, i noticed that Klekfi was not adding anything special to it. I could still deal with greninja and gengar with Conk, and threaten cresselia with Sylveon, but i lacked a sub-Thundurus counter that could also deal with Gengar.



Team Analysis:

Lumi @ Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 236 HP / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 5 Atk
- Psychic
- Yawn
- Reflect
- Light Screen

Since i started with this team, I brought him in battles 80% of the time. When i do it, he works as my lead.
Many people have told me, why Espeon? You can just use Klefki or Raikou, or also Latios as your dual screnner. I have two different answers for this (good) question.
First of all, i can't deny that i like it. You play this game also to use what you like and try to make it work.
The second answer is that i strongly think that it's pretty viable over those (probably stronger) dual screeners. Why? Well expecially for his fantastic ability Magic Bounce that guards you from all those status/swagger strategies and from the lesser common Taunt or Encore. Then also for the combination of his speed (setting fast screens) and Yawn, a pretty decent (and maybe underestimated) move that forces switches and can stop pokemon that could otherwise set up while espeon is screening, a move that either Klefki, Raikou and Latios doesn't have. I think that this three factors, plus having a good special attack even without any EVs investment, are enough to grant Espeon a niche as a dual screener.

To complete my analysis, the EVs let him survive things like LO Brave Bird from max attack Adamant Talonflame 100% of the time, Shadow Ball from max SpA Timid Gengar 94% of the time and Timid Greninja's Dark Pulse 100% of the time, all BEFORE setting up the screens, while still being able to outspeed Jolly Garchomp by 1.

Enola Gay @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate / Aerilate
EVs: 84 HP / 194 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Earthquake
- Roost


The strenght of Salamence doesn't need explanatios. He is without a doubt one of the strongest pokemon in the Bss tier. Behind the screens, with the help of his normal form ability Intimidate, it's really hard to stop him from getting up a DD or recover damage with Roost. The EVs are to survive an Ice Beam from neutral nature 100 SpA Suicune and HP Ice from neutral nature 244 SpA Mega Blaziken without Light Screen, 100% of the time. EVs in Speed are to outspeed pokemon with 100 base speed, positive nature max EVs. The rest of the EVs are invested attack to maximize his offensive power.
I tested many kind of Mence for my team: a bulkier one with Facade, a Substitute one without Eq, even a Double-Edge max attack/max speed one. In the end i found this combination of EVs and Moves the one i preferred for my play style and my team.

A Hug? @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Protect / Thunder Wave -> Stealth Rock -> Protect


Completes the Dragon/Steel combo behind the screens. I use this as my main Cresselia counter, while still being able to do something also versus Suicune and to tank Dragon moves. With the combination of his ability plus his item it can also destroy Mega Kangaskhan that doesn't carry Fire Punch, and also if it does, behind the screen with Leech seed up plus Protect it would be a 2HKO, leading Kangaskhan to faint due to the recoil damage. Behind Reflect it can also survive a Flare Blitz from Adamant max Attack Talonflame, KOing back with Gyro Ball plus the recoil damage.

D.Zoff @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe -> 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

AV Conkeldurr works as a bulky attacker capable of switching in on both, special and physical attacks, while also working as a burn/paralisys/poison absorber, that with the combination of Espeon's Magic Bounce offers Salamence alot of protection from statuses. Knock Off is for Gengar (or Extrasensory Greninja) , Cresselia and mons like Sitrus Berry Thundurus; Ice Punch to hits dragons and genies. Mach Punch is a given keeping in mind his poor speed, while Drain Punch is his main STAB move. EVs are pretty standard.
AV Conkeldurr also synergizes pretty well with the screens strategy, being able also to survive attacks like Choice Specs max SpA Modest Sylveon's Hyper Voice or LO Brave Bird max Atk Adamant Talonflame 100% of the time.

Tooth Fairy @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 188 HP / 76 Def / 240 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire -> Hidden Power Ground
- Hyper Beam


Sylveon completes the Dragon/Steel/Fairy core or just adds power to the dual combo dragon+fairy behind the screens. Also here EVs are pretty standard. Shadow Ball is for Metagross and for Gengar (also tho Psyshock was better for him) , and gives some decent coverage versus steel types if i'm forced to guess a switch in and i don't want to be locked in HPFire or just to hit Heatran; Hidden Power Fire is for Ferrothorn and steel type in general; Hyper Voice is his signature move, while Hyper Beam is for the unreal power if i REALLY need to KO or hit as much hard as i can something.

YattaElephant @ Lum berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Knock Off


This thing is a great partner for Mence. Can absorb twaves, eat ice attacks and deal with a pretty solid counter to Salamence: Thundurus. The Lum berry was there for WoW/Hypnosis of Mega Gengar and for the swagger/toxic thundurus strategies. It also helps if you think that both, mence and mamo, are greatly threatened by burns. The moves are pretty standard, the only question is on the last spot. Rock slide is for the Mamo vs Volcarona 1v1-lead scenario, to stop him from setting up, and to deal damage to rotom-h and tflame. Knock Off would mainly be for Gengar.
Credits to 6tennis for suggesting me Mamo :]






Threats List:

Lum berry Tflame can be tricky for my team, sword dancing over Yawn or Twave, making holes through my team. It can WoW Mence, kill Conk, Ferrothorn, Klefki, Espeon and Sylveon... Yes it can pretty much destroy me if i don't play smart. Also a Banded Tflame can pretty much threaten my team.

Also though Ferrothorn can deal with him, i still find hard to answer to Cresselia, being him one of the best checks to Salamence. His move pool is so big i have to keep constantly guessing if he will go for a Twave, Trick Room, or just an Ice Beam (this move is probably the least problematic, also thanks to Light Screen). It can also pretty much stall out my screens with Moonlight, and can handle Conkeldurr if carrying Psychic.

Download Porygon 2 is also pretty tough for my team to handle. He can stall out screens, kill Ferrothorn if running HP Fire, and even has a tiny chance to kill Mence behind light screen with a +1 Ice Beam. If i see him i have to bring in either Conkeldurr or Sylveon. But without one of them, i pretty much have a big disadvantage, and also with them i have to play very safe or just lose vs this mon.

Mega Mawile can be a problem if running Fire Fang. If he doesn't Ferrothorn can handle him. To kill this thing without Ferrothorn i need to bring his life up to 65% to KO with Mence's Earthquake. Behind reflect both, Mence and Conk, can take a Play Rough tho...







Shoutouts:
My shoutout are for the boys of the PS Bss room, constantly helping me if i need an advice :)


Conclusions:
Feel free to give any feedback to my team, because i pretty much think that the team is far from perfect and it probably can still be improved

Thank You :]​

 

[NOVED]

Solid looking team man. Seen it in action so I know it can perform well.

I think Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn over Protect would be a good idea. Since you have Rocky Helmet instead of Leftovers you're not getting an insane amount of healing each turn so I feel like Protect isn't as valuable. Stealth Rock is really good with Mence imo, it helps get some nice chip damage and breaks potential sashes.

I think Double Edge is better over Return personally. In 3v3 I think the recoil usually wont affect the outcome of the game too often, especially when you have Roost. Especially if you run Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn, Double Edge is able to pick up a lot of nice OHKOs after a DD.

some double edge calcs

+1 194+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 244 HP / 12 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 162-192 (84.8 - 100.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 194+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-T: 151-178 (97.4 - 114.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

+1 194+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 168-198 (90.8 - 107%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (in case of Balloon)

some other good calcs without a DD:
194+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 228 HP / 12 Def Azumarill: 178-211 (87.2 - 103.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
194+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 153-180 (85 - 100%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
194+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 159-187 (86.4 - 101.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
194+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 166-196 (99.4 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

And that's just with the Attack investment you have atm, if you put in a few more EVs those chances to OHKO would be even higher than they already are.

I think HP Ground on Sylveon could be more useful than HP Fire to hit Heatran. The reason for this is since you have some trouble with Cress, tran is one of the most common teammates on cress teams and sylveon already has a good matchup vs cress so having something to OHKO tran will help demolish that core and make it easier for your team to deal with a lot of cress teams. I feel you dont really struggle with Ferrothorn and Scizor that much anyway since your main win condition, Salemence can deal with both of those decently, as can Conk.

I feel like Klefki isn't too necessary on this team. I know you said you wanted it for the Fairy/Dragon/Steel core but you already have Ferro as a good Steel-type. Since you have some trouble with Talonflame I think a bulky Thundurus or Rotom-W would do well. Thundurus can run Nasty Plot to also help vs Cress and P2 a bit. It could even run Swagger similar to Klefki, just not as dedicated to it like Klefki is. Rotom-W however gives you a fire resist which your team really lacks outside Mence. Right now something like a mixed Blaziken with HP Ice could really do some work on your team. Rotom-W helps against Talon and can Wisp Mawile which can somewhat help against them. And getting a slow volt switch off into Salamence or Sylveon can also give you a lot of momentum in some cases. Either of these electric types over Klefki would greatly help the team I think, being weak to Talonflame is something you never want to say about a team.

 

[Omastar68]

Lol the HP EVs on Espeon. 236 is too boring but 238 is too much XD.

Espeon looks nice. I really don't think it's a bad mon, Magic Guard is huge. I'm mayb a little skeptical about Yawn, but less so if you put SR on Ferro, which I agree you should do.

Mence looks interesting. EVs are all over the place, not sure I want to try to figure them out lol. I do like DE over Return. Return is tricky to really determine if it's worth it or not. Yea there's no recoil, but it's work to figure out how much and then decide on if it makes your chance to be OHKOd by X move too high. And then there's other variables like weather that could mess it up. Prolly just easier to use the stronger move that kills more. And you have Roost and possible screens that can make up for he recoil some.

Conk I found an EV spread that seems at least bettr than max/Max. I'm sure there's bettr, but yea. 156 HP/ 252+ Atk/ 100 SpD. This still has a very low chance for Max Atk Kang to OHKO with DE, and raises special bulk a bunch. For instance, avoids even the smallish chance for LO Thund to 2hko with t-bolt, or OHKO at +2. Also always lives Timid Zard Y's Overheat in the sun, with a goof chance to live even Modest. I'm not too sure what more Def really accomplishes, the strong guys mostly still 2hko or OHKO. I guess there's EQ from some Chomp and Mamo, but those are basically OHKOd, sash is finished by Mach Punch.

I think I do like HP Ground on Sylveon. I usually like any team to have at least some fire coverage, but ur not bothered by the main fire weaks so much. Again you got the EVs that are tricky. Spe creep I'm not so sure about. I mean I guess there's uninvested TTar, so if it doesn't hurt bulk much... Also, I like 188 HP/ 76 Def on Sylv to make Mega Blaziken only have a 6.3% chance to OHKO with a Flare Blitz while still having lots of HP to help in the special side a but. You don't need much there with Sylveon's strong SpD and relatively few special weaknesses.

Klefki NOVED discussed, and I agree. Thund can pretty much do what Klefki does and more, so yea. Klefki also steals the Lefties Ferro might want, tho then consider Protect more strongly.

 

[Solerme]

Thanks for the advices boys, as always!

I already did some changes in the team (and edited here in my first post with the changes)
Now i'm trying Thund over Klefki

Rofl just noticed the HP EVs on Espeon xD...

 

[cant say]

Cool team, I like the dedicated lead approach in BSS myself since it makes a lot of set up sweepers viable (except Linoone, I did try that for a while).

I like NOVED's suggestion of Rotom-W, but I think you should try Rotom-H instead. It deals with all the same things you need Rotom-W for but it also stops Mawile, Ferrothorn and Scizor. Only thing it misses out on is Hydro Pump to smash Blaziken and is Rock-weak, but I really like it anyway. Something like this would be cool:

Rotom-H @ Sitrus Berry / Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp / Thunder Wave / Thunderbolt / Trick

Greninja don't use Water-STAB anywhere near as much as its other moves so this should still work. Of course the odd Hydro Pump ones will stop you :(

 

[Omastar68]

You call Cress in your threat list a him. Seriously bro?

Also, I agree with cant say about Rotom-h. Cress and P2 don't appreciate Trick even when it's Specs, Rotom-h is pretty much the best answer to Talon available, and Mawile hates fire and can't do too much with STABs, tho it does almost always have a dark attack so watch out for that.

I also want to point out that the somewhat rare CM(6.7%) and Sub(3.8%) Cress are really difficult for you, almost unbeatable. This is season 15 cuz battlespotstats.com hasn't updated(what happened to @hetoord?,) but close enough. I'm pretty sure these moves have been on the rise for a little while, cm used to be like 1% of Cress and easily dismissed(*cough* *cough* @freekhoorn,) and I don't remember even seeing Sub in the top 20 moves earlier(seems like season 14 this was.)

Trick from Rotom-H helps vs Cress not behind a sub, but you have to remember you may very well be locking it into a strong Psyshock or Moonblast if it has some CMs. I'd watch for these types of Cress, and if they start seeing more use make some changes.

I'd replace helmet on Ferro with Lefties since you're ditching Klefki for a mon that isn't using the Lefties. You seem good enough against Kang already, and Stealth Rock doesn't seem that good even tho it gets some extra OHKOs with Mence and stuff. Protect is helpful pretty much every game you bring Ferro, while SR relies on you having an oppurtunity to set up(so not against a fire type, and if the fire switches in the turn you're setting, you're not gonna get to chip it with SR, and fires are a big target of SR,) and can be a waste if the enemy team is strong vs rock, like Mega Luc, Conk, and Hippo.

Umm, totally minor, but I think Ferro likes its last 4 EVs in Atk, and Sylveon should perhaps run 4 Spe instead for a teensy bit more SpA. Base 60s generally aren't into Spe creep much, so 4 should be enough for them. Your team is so strong vs TTar that, unless the SpA does pretty much nothing specific, you should forget about creeping TTar that don't invest.

 

[Solerme]

Thanks guys :)
I've replaced Ferro's item with Lefties (also the 4 evs :p) and I'm trying sitrus berry Rotom-H over Klefki. The problem with this change is that without Klef i hugely fear Mega Gengar (exp the hypnosis set). It can kill Mence and Espeon, can Hypnosis Conk or just Destiny Bond him, and handle Sylveon. Instead with Klefki i could just substitute vs hypnosis or could cripple him with priority paralysis. I mainly use Klefki just for that (it's good with cresselia too).
I tried also Thund over Klefki, but i felt like having the double ice/rock weakness wasn't getting along with my playstyle..
I need a way to deal with megaGeng if replacing Klekfi...

For subcm cresselia i feel like Yawn or Sylveon could be a semi-decent answer to it. I still fear him greatly tho, also the other sets.

 

[Solerme]

i found out i'm pretty weak to this:

, and due to the fact that my only 2 special attackers are not effective on steel, this thing can pretty much wall my entire team.

Is there a pokemon that can deal with him, while also having a decent match up vs mega gengar and mawile?
Maybe a bulky heatran?

 

[cant say]

i found out i'm pretty weak to this:

, and due to the fact that my only 2 special attackers are not effective on steel, this thing can pretty much wall my entire team.

Is there a pokemon that can deal with him, while also having a decent match up vs mega gengar and mawile?
Maybe a bulky heatran?

Specially Defensive Heatran would be cool, but you can't swap it for Ferrothorn because then you have nothing for Kang or Chomp (well Mamo can revenge / 1v1 Chomp but can't switch) unless you replace a second mon for a dedicated check, in which case you're changing a third of your team just for Skarm... But if you are interested in Heatran then here's the set:

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 212 HP / 44 SpD / 252 Spe or 212 HP / 4 Def / 44 SpA / 156 SpD / 92 Spe
Timid / Calm Nature Respectively
- Magma Storm
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Protect

 

[PumpedAaron]

Very minor typo I noticed, you aren't using Timid on your Mamowswine, I'm sure. Timid decreases physical attack. I think you meant Jolly.

 

[Solerme]

Specially Defensive Heatran would be cool, but you can't swap it for Ferrothorn because then you have nothing for Kang or Chomp (well Mamo can revenge / 1v1 Chomp but can't switch) unless you replace a second mon for a dedicated check, in which case you're changing a third of your team just for Skarm... But if you are interested in Heatran then here's the set:

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 212 HP / 44 SpD / 252 Spe or 212 HP / 4 Def / 44 SpA / 156 SpD / 92 Spe
Timid / Calm Nature Respectively
- Magma Storm
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Protect

Do you think swapping Mamo for Heatran could be a good idea? Since Conk can still answer to Thundurus (except for the sub/toxic set) and eat paralysis for Mence

Very minor typo I noticed, you aren't using Timid on your Mamowswine, I'm sure. Timid decreases physical attack. I think you meant Jolly.

Yeah it's Jolly :| that was a typing error