Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread

[Gary]

To clarify, while we cannot discuss the ranking of Mega-Mawile and Beedrill themselves, we can make comments regarding the influence of Mawile/Beedrill on the ranking of other mons. For example, we can say that "the inclusion of Mega-Mawile and Mega-Beedrill makes Gengar less viable, as Mawile can use its priority and OHKO with sucker punch, and Beedrill outspeeds non-scarfed Gengar, and OHKOs with drill run or knock off, and could even pursuit trap Gengar." Correct?

Correct. They are a part of the metagame now, and in the case of Mawile's, its influence will be pretty big and that could effect a lot of Pokemon's viability. However, please don't immediately start jumping to conclusions, such as Gengar should drop because Mega Mawile exists or Heatran should rise, because there just hasn't been enough time yet. Normally we completely restrict all forms of new Pokemon discussion for a week, but I'm at least allowing them to be discussed, just not placed in any rank yet, as long as the discussion at least has some evidence to back it up instead of pure theorymoning.

 

[Yoshi]

I mean, I don't even know if they're allowed on PS yet so any talk about them is just gonna be theorymonning at this point...

On a more relevant point, I think Toxapex is actually good enough for A+. It's ability to fit onto any team bar HO is so valuable, with an incredible defensive typing for the meta, especially considering how large Pheromosa is atm. TSpikes are really solid right now, with a lot of teams running subpar hazard control, and helping to stop major threats like Volc and Zygarde. Ultimately, I think Pex is the premier threat on defensive teams, and with stall and BO being pretty potent right now, Toxapex is a huge player in their viability.

I'm sure you already know by now but just to clarify they've been allowed since early morning (EST).

 

[Shouting]

On the topic of Gengar rise, there are a couple people saying that being grounded is huge because it allows benfits from terrian, but I really don't buy this argument for it rising.

First of all, what uses status that Gengar commonly (or can) switch in on? Nothing. There are no status users in the S- or A+ tier. Ferrothorn sometimes carries T-Wave, I hardly see Tangrowth with sleep powder, same for Mega-Venu. Jirachi can carry TWave, but switching into Jirachi is risky to begin with. Not much changes in B+ either. Rotom-W carries Will-o-Wisp, but again, Gengar will not switch in. and Rotom can just KO with Hydro Pump anyway.

It can help with Amoongus, but honestly I see it less and less these days - more people are using Tangrowth or Mega-Venu.

Electric Terrain can boost Thunderbolt if Gengar is carrying it. No other benefit. I don't see how this really impacts viability.

Grassy Terrain doesn't do a whole lot to benefit something as frail as Gengar, although it might be nice for Life Orb sets. Gengar is mostly likely going to die to STAB Earthquakes anyway, and it doesn't do anything to Zygarde.

Psychic Terrain does not protect Gengar as much as people think. Ash-Gren is naturally faster than Gengar, so there is not benefit from being protected from its priority. It is already immune to Extremespeed from Zygarde, and Bisharp is nowhere to be seen. Mega Metagross hardly carries Bullet Punch.

It helps against Mega-Pinsir (who is also declining in usage, even moreso with the new megas), Mega-Mawile, and maybe a little with Mega-Scizor, but again, these are just three pokemon in a tier full of 20-30.

 

[tenkai]

On the topic of Gengar rise, there are a couple people saying that being grounded is huge because it allows benfits from terrian, but I really don't buy this argument for it rising.

First of all, what uses status that Gengar commonly (or can) switch in on? Nothing. There are no status users in the S- or A+ tier. Ferrothorn sometimes carries T-Wave, I hardly see Tangrowth with sleep powder, same for Mega-Venu. Jirachi can carry TWave, but switching into Jirachi is risky to begin with. Not much changes in B+ either. Rotom-W carries Will-o-Wisp, but again, Gengar will not switch in. and Rotom can just KO with Hydro Pump anyway.

It can help with Amoongus, but honestly I see it less and less these days - more people are using Tangrowth or Mega-Venu.

Electric Terrain can boost Thunderbolt if Gengar is carrying it. No other benefit. I don't see how this really impacts viability.

Grassy Terrain doesn't do a whole lot to benefit something as frail as Gengar, although it might be nice for Life Orb sets. Gengar is mostly likely going to die to STAB Earthquakes anyway, and it doesn't do anything to Zygarde.

Psychic Terrain does not protect Gengar as much as people think. Ash-Gren is naturally faster than Gengar, so there is not benefit from being protected from its priority. It is already immune to Extremespeed from Zygarde, and Bisharp is nowhere to be seen. Mega Metagross hardly carries Bullet Punch.

It helps against Mega-Pinsir (who is also declining in usage, even moreso with the new megas), Mega-Mawile, and maybe a little with Mega-Scizor, but again, these are just three pokemon in a tier full of 20-30.

No one is saying the terrains are why Gengar should rise. Gengar should rise because of its versatility, strong Ghost stab in a tier that basically lacks Ghost resists, along with its ever useful ability to check Pheromosa. Being able to take advantage of terrains is just a small, largely inconsequential but occasionally useful bonus.

 

[pika pal]

To be fair, I think dodging Mega Mawile's Sucker Punch is a big deal given how dependent it is on that move against offense and it's going to be a force to be reckoned with on said style. Gengar can actually just barely take a hit from Play Rough while outspeeding to 2HKO, or (more realistically) Mawile can't switch into Shadow Ball and threaten it out with Sucker Punch in that scenario.

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mawile-Mega: 177-211 (58.2 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 208-246 (79.6 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



Regardless, these aren't the things Gengar is being recommended to move up for. Its STAB combo and coverage is unparalleled given Ghost Resists in OU are non-existent right now, Poison is stronger than ever with the Tapus popping up everywhere, and Gengar's combination of Power and Speed makes him an excellent attacker against every playstyle. Mons naturally outspeeding him have declined, and one of the few remaining (Pheromosa) is actually checked by him, which is a boon given Pheromosa is a headache for Offensive teams as a Glass cannon. Even the QD set actually falls short of an OHKO at +1 (50% after SR), while Gengar still beats her back with LO/Specs Sludge Wave.

But I'm deviating. The boon for Gengar is that Pursuit trappers are declining, and find me something in the tier that can switch into this thing safely. Fast enough that it can afford 2HKO's compared to Alolan Marowak (the only other offensive Ghost type I know), while still hitting hard enough to achieve that thanks to fantastic STAB.

 

[YuguY]

Can I make a nom?

Magearna -> A +

Magearna is a mon which can wall and hit hard at the same time, the av set walling ash-gren, protean gren,special pheromosa, tapu lele, gengar, keldeo, and even certain physical attackers like buzzwole, non eq mega metagross and weavile to name a few. It also is one of a small number of steel types that can beat magnezone and mega scizor. It also will wall both new megas. It can also lay a heavy dent on all mons that it walls. That's just the av set.

Shift gear turns it into a monster, a fast and bulky monster often packing a z move to durn it into a dangerous sweeper after just one turn of set up. The av set by itself is good enough but its versatility is what IMO sets it apart from every other a mon and two a plus mons (cough cough... celesteela). The trick-room set allows it to turn the tables (sorry dimensions) on hyper-offence teams by really cheering off their speedier mons. The choice specs isn't quite as good but is an amazing wallbreaker if your to impatient for a soul heart boost. I've also seen heart swap (I know, its an Uber's set) to help with some teams weakness to qd pheromosa or calm mind tapu lele or autotomize celesteela or tg manaphy etc.

Another thing I want to discuss is how this beast isn't as viable as celesteela. Celesteela I understand has better phys. def and can utilise physical moves as well as special moves and ha reliable recovery, but magearna's sp.def, offensive prowess and pivoting abilities (volt switch) are better. It also has more viable sets (check out the sets viability rankings if you haven't already), harder hitting moves, better coverage and the ability to support its team better (trick room, general wallbreaking and walking etc). I can understand that they can be the same ranking but Magearna lower than celesteela? Just no.

Edit: celesteela doesn't even have higher phys.def

 

[Gary]

RANKING UPDATE

Rises

A ---> A+

A- ---> A

A- ---> A

Drops

A+ ---> A

A- ---> B+

Pretty small update, but I just wanted to get this out before any shift happens due to Mawile being released. All of them should be pretty self-explanatory because they've all pretty much been discussed extensively. Jirachi was supposed to drop last update but we kinda overlooked it. Jirachi's main niche is checking Tapu Lele, which is does a pretty good job at that, but with Scarf Lele no longer being as popular, and other sets such as Ghostium or Specs Shadow Ball becoming more common, it can't be reliably depended on to check it as reliably. Zygarde rising has mostly to do with its Choice Band set, which has gained a lot of traction lately as a hard hitter that lacks reliable switch-ins outside of fat Grasses and Mega Scizor, and it heavily punishes teams that depend on stuff like Celesteela, Skarm, and Landorus-T as their Ground switch-in. And of course, Banded E Speed is always great late game for stuff like Pheromosa and Ash Greninja.

Remember that we are not going to discuss ranking Mawile or Bee until next week, so keep up with that lol. Any other discussion about them is fine but again, just be smart about it.

 

[GlassVeins]

Y'know, I think Mega Beedrill has some serious potential due to the new mega mechanics. However, its role in u-turn spam has been eclipsed by Phermosa, which doen't take up a mega slot. Let's compare power on u-turn:
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Manaphy: 170-200 (49.8 - 58.6%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pheromosa U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Manaphy: 118-141 (34.6 - 41.3%) -- 68.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
As you can see, it hits significantly harder! Plus, it has poison STAB to threaten Fairy types. Lastly, it has some pretty decent coverage with u-turn, drill run, poison jab, and knock off now that protect isn't mandatory.
Sadly, it's still paper frail, has a pretty shallow movepool, and takes up your mega slot, but given hazard control it should easily be able to force out the plethora of faries and gain momentum for your team. Also, has anyone tried a u-turn spam team with this and phero? that.... seems like a bad idea, but it might be fun!

 

[Dracma127]

Y'know, I think Mega Beedrill has some serious potential due to the new mega mechanics. However, its role in u-turn spam has been eclipsed by Phermosa, which doen't take up a mega slot. Let's compare power on u-turn:
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Manaphy: 170-200 (49.8 - 58.6%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Pheromosa U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Manaphy: 118-141 (34.6 - 41.3%) -- 68.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
As you can see, it hits significantly harder! Plus, it has poison STAB to threaten Fairy types. Lastly, it has some pretty decent coverage with u-turn, drill run, poison jab, and knock off now that protect isn't mandatory.
Sadly, it's still paper frail, has a pretty shallow movepool, and takes up your mega slot, but given hazard control it should easily be able to force out the plethora of faries and gain momentum for your team. Also, has anyone tried a u-turn spam team with this and phero? that.... seems like a bad idea, but it might be fun!

Mega Drill certainly benefits from the mega buff, as being able to hit something turn 1 is huge. While Pheromosa has the phenomenal advantage of an item and not taking up a mega slot, Drill has the power of CB Phero while keeping itself being locked into moves. Landorus-T is a huge threat to Drill, but U-Turn helps bring in your answers to Lando.

Drill+Phero U-turn spam is surprisingly effective, and the two work great in a VoltTurn team. No matter which item you give phero, the core's threatened by things that can tank a hit from either mon. Hazards are also a problem, but carrying an answer to popular rockers are a solid way to keep rocks off the field.

Overall, I feel Beedrill's going to be B(ee)-tier OU. It fits a niche and does its job well. However, its weaknesses and requirements are rather restrictive on teambuilding, and takes up a valuable mega slot on top of that. Pheromosa can support its team, Beedrill's team needs to support him.

 

[Kyuzeth]

A brief comment on the Mega slot: A Mega Evolution is always picked for the specific niche it provides (or niches in the case of some Mega Evolutions), so the whole deal about 'taking up the Mega slot' is generally not that good of an argument. Mega Beedrill, for example, is used as a blazingly fast hard hitter that can provide momentum with U-turn.

What sets the Bee apart from Pheromosa, though, is Fell Stinger, which turns Mega Beedrill into a frightening late-game attacker with +3 Attack under its belt. A simple set of Fell Stinger/Poison Jab/U-turn/Knock Off is all it really needs.

 

[volx757]

A brief comment on the Mega slot: A Mega Evolution is always picked for the specific niche it provides (or niches in the case of some Mega Evolutions), so the whole deal about 'taking up the Mega slot' is generally not that good of an argument. Mega Beedrill, for example, is used as a blazingly fast hard hitter that can provide momentum with U-turn.

What sets the Bee apart from Pheromosa, though, is Fell Stinger, which turns Mega Beedrill into a frightening late-game attacker with +3 Attack under its belt. A simple set of Fell Stinger/Poison Jab/U-turn/Knock Off is all it really needs.

What can you hit with a 50BP bug attack that's gonna get you a KO that wasn't gonna switch out to a u-turn absorber anyway? Fell stinger seems highly situational, too much so to base a set off of.
Say you get the +3, this leaves you with poison jab and knock off as your attacking options (if you want to keep the boost and you want to not use a 50BP move).

+3 252 Atk Beedrill-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 279-329 (86.3 - 101.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+3 252 Atk Beedrill-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 285-336 (71.6 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (heavy slam KOs bee)
+2 252 Atk Beedrill-Mega Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 171-202 (53.6 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So a +3 knock off fails to KO the things that wall beedrill anyway, and they can all OHKO it back.
Poison Jab is gonna hit the same things regardless of stat boosts.

There's only one 'cool' calc i can find with fell stinger beedrill if you can get the boost:
+3 252 Atk Beedrill-Mega Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Metagross-Mega: 276-326 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Maybe beedrill can get surprise KOs on mons the opponent was gonna sac to a u-turn? Assuming they have no steels or landogs left, then this is the one case I could see this working, but it seems very hard to get to, and kinda like an ash-ninja thats harder to get the form change/boost and doesn't even get to keep it when it switches out.
________

The mega slot argument I think is fine. You might pick beedrill for a specific niche (fast STAB uturn?), start building your team, and then realize that you NEED megazor to check xyz and for a backup wincon (for example). Well, your mega slot is taken up, so you can't have scizor, and your team will have to remain without a check to megameta. Is it worth keeping beedrill in the mega slot on this team? No, because scizor provides so much more utility. It also has uturn and knock off, but gets roost, defog, can actually take a hit to set up an SD, has a much better typing and infinitely better bulk, etc.
That's the 'mega slot' argument, and I think it's totally fair game.

 

[giovanidude]

Hello, I don't normally post here but I couldn't help but see how criminally underrated Kyurem-B is and how it's represented in the Viability rankings. I think that Kyurem is more than deserving to be placed in B+. It's so much better than all the other B ranked mons and is closer in viability to the likes of manaphy, tyranitar, rotom, lati, etc. Kyurem, just to be honest, puts in work.

Allot of people have the idea that Z-Freeze shock is what gets Kyurem into B rank, but honestly that set is so underwhelming and is only good for heat/meme teams. For serious play the life orb set is by far the most consistent and puts the most pressure on teams. Kyurem is able to put so much pressure on teams due to it's amazing offensive coverage and BULK. The pressure that Kyurem is able to apply is similar to greninja, although not as extreme, because it's so hard to switch into and forces in allot of glue mons that can allow teammates to clean up.

The best set for Kyurem, in my opinion, consists of:

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 8 Atk / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
- Roost
(Speed Is For Jolly Gyrardos)

Last gen Kyurem was strapped for moves between HP Fire, Earthpower, and Roost in it's last two slots (Fusion Bolt and Ice beam are Necessary). This gen Kyurem has a bit more freedom and is able to be more effective with this simple set. Scizor is allot less common and ferrothorn gets bopped by ice beam anyways, and I can't remember the last time I saw a Jirachi. This along with the absence of clef also allows for Kyurem to be much harder to check defensively, allowing it to demolish common cores.

Sure the amount of steel types and fairy types in this meta prove "problematic" but honestly Kyurem beats most of them 1v1 anyways. You beat fini with fusion bolt and roost on moonblast, tapu koko doesn't normally carry dazzling gleam, bulu...dies, ferrothorn takes a TON from ice beam, celesteela is almost OHKOd by fusion bolt after rocks, AV magearna takes almost half from earth power, heatran dies, and skarmory dies.
This leaves Tapu Lele, Excadrill, and Metagross as the only real steel/fariy mons that threaten it. All of which are checked by common mons such as celesteela/scizor/lando

Overall I think Kyurem matches up very well against both offensive and deffensive teams due to it's power and bulk allowing it to act as either a pivot (into things like greninja, koko, zygarde, zard y, toxapex, etc.) or punch holes through any deffensive core that doesn't consist of scizor.
And with what it doesn't beat it's so easy to support! It is very independent, aside from needing defog or spin, and helps teammates to wall or sweep teams late game. It pairs so well with some of the best pokemon due to it's ability to pressure and lure things like Toxapex, Skarm, Tapu Fini, and Ferrothorn allowing it to pair well with lando, Metagross, Greninja, Pheromosa and many more. It also finds plenty of opportunities to switch in and do it's job too because of its bulk.

Tldr; It's so strong and is very good at pressuring and weakening teams and pivots into many mons allowing for either itself or a teammate to sweep.

I don't have very many replays but I plan on adding more. For some reason they're not saving. (I know they're not the best but I'm only a mid-ladder player oK)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-545298067 - Here Kyurem breaks stall and allows for Zygarde to clean
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-545293592 - Here Kyurem weakens fini and allows Pheromosa to clean
I had one where Kyurem 6-0'd this guy turn one but I didn't save it. It was some semi stall with tran, Venu, Skarm, A-wak, something else, and greninja

 

[Leo]

Fell Stinger M-Bee is so overhyped and it's definitely not a niche over Pheromosa, I think the post above explain well why. What I want to address is how important the megaslot this gen is and why it's a legit argument against Bee and will get worse for it as we get the other good megas. One of the main reasons for the megaslot being so important this gen is Mega Metagross, one of the best if not the best mon rn, being able to both check some scary threats (Tapu Lele, Pinsir, Mosa with BP) and being really tough to deal with for offense. Its sole presence in the tier decreases the viability of other megas (being 3 ranks above any other) and increasing the viability of its counters (M-Scizor, who was sitting at B+ gained a lot of usage thanks to it even though some mons it used to check (Weavile, Lopunny, etc) aren't prevalent anymore. The addition of Mawile also gives Bee some competition due to its sheer power and very few reliable good answers. Basically, when you add a M-Bee to your team, you automatically decide that you won't use any of these great megas, whereas you could use Pheromosa (slightly weaker U-Turns and better coverage+Speed) and still have a Megaslot.

 

[Night Train Lane]

Using Mega Metagross all the time gets boring so quickly. There's no skill required to use it since it's so broken.

This is your opinion and doesn't address why anyone would ever use mBeedrill over Mosa so I don't see why you felt the need to include this.

Mega Beedrill has some bulk unlike Pheromosa where it may survive some hits especially priority moves.

Relevant Prio

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Water Shuriken (15 BP) (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Beedrill-Mega: 195-230 (71.9 - 84.8%) -- approx. 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
VS
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Water Shuriken (15 BP) (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pheromosa: 335-405 (118.3 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Beedrill-Mega: 201-243 (74.1 - 89.6%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Vs
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pheromosa: 354-423 (125 - 149.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill-Mega: 220-259 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Vs
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 233-275 (82.3 - 97.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

As you can see the difference is pretty negligible, with rocks taking away any advantage mBeedrill's bulk has over Mosa's

Fell Stinger may seem niche on paper but late game it's deadly considering it's Adaptability boosted, and Mega Beedrill has spammable STABs unlike Pheromosa where High Jump Kick or Focus Blast can miss and Beedrill has more coverage than Pheromosa. It may be a solid B+/A- mon

Fell Stinger is extremely niche on paper and in practice and people have already discussed this.
Pheromosa has the strongest Focus Blast and HJK currently available in OU. The miss chance doesn't matter for pokemon like Mosa since how powerful the hits truly are.
mBeedrill has horrible coverage.
Bug (which is only uTurn) - Ground (which is only Drill Run) - Dark (which is only Knock Off) - Posion (which is only PJab) isn't impressive.
mBeedrill cannot touch the most used pokemon in the tier in Landorus; cannot touch A+ tier threats in Zygarde and Celesteela, takes 50 mil chip from Chomp, cannot break stall, cannot touch Scizor, is revenged by literally every scarfer.
While Phero has enough coverage to hit every relevant threat in the OU metagame, has set up options for punishing switches, DOESN'T TAKE UP A MEGA SLOT so it can run a plethora of items: Scarf, Specs, Orb, Belt, Sash, zMove (which is huge).

TL;DR as long as Pheromosa is available there is no reason to use mBeedrill other than trying to be different.

 

[Night Train Lane]

--> A+ the scarf set is pretty good which has been discussed in length, the zShadow Ball set is really splashable for teams that don't have a better zMove user with the addition of nabbing surprise kills on would be checks/counters (Celes, Sableye, Tox etc.) Specs has really good power behind the unwallable Ghost STAB. Sub-Split I haven't tested but I imagine it still has its niche, especially since phero still exists. Orb is still around and maintains one of it's better sets since non boosts Gengar is pretty weak which I feel is the main issue when using it. After Fini lived a Sludge Wave from from Specs Gar i went "yo wtf Gengar u good?"

I've also seen many people complained that Gengar is getting too much credit. Which I think isn't the case since we should thoroughly discuss pokemon that have a very big presence in the meta, which Gengar is starting to have.

 

[Night Train Lane]

I don't understand what these calcs prove. The volcarona calc is very random considering it gets 2hkod on the switch by specs focus blast

Hide

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pheromosa Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 160-189 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and it can't switch it if rocks are the the field.

The other calcs are you showing an adaptibility poison move coming off a 145 Atk stat vs Fairy Types... It damn well better kill. Also, since when does "96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery" = wouldn't be able to touch

Oh and,

Hide

252 Atk Pheromosa Acid Downpour (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 272-322 (79.3 - 93.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ SpA Pheromosa Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 16+ SpD Tapu Fini: 267-315 (77.8 - 91.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Pheromosa Acid Downpour (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Clefable: 432-510 (109.6 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

These sets have been used in tour play to do exactly what you said it couldn't.

Pheromosa outclasses mBeedrill, I don't understand why people want this pokemon it be good so bad. We shouldn't shy away from calling a pokemon what it is. mBeedrill is a bad Pheromosa as it's outclassed in every category apart from damage, which phero still has the edge in with addition to items.

 

[BARABOY]

I think dugtrio should be ranked up. With earthquake and stone edge/rock slide, it's a hard counter to a lot of the meta, easpecially since it can switch in and trap a pokemon it has an advantage over.

It takes out both mega zards, heatran, volcarona, mega metagross (sucker punch helps a lot here), magnezone, tapu koko, and a lot more. Basically any steel, fire or electric type it can take out with ease.

This is the set I like to use:
Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Sucker Punch
- Memento
You can switch into anything and survive thanks to sash, take out the opposing pokemon, and use memento to cripple your foe. Then bring out a boosting pokemon while the pokemon you used memento on either switches or does pitiful damage, giving you at least one turn to set up.

I've never made one of these before, and I hope I made a convincing argument!

 

[Kyuzeth]

Pheromosa outclasses mBeedrill, I don't understand why people want this pokemon it be good so bad. We shouldn't shy away from calling a pokemon what it is. mBeedrill is a bad Pheromosa as it's outclassed in every category apart from damage, which phero still has the edge in with addition to items.

I think people just really want Mega Beedrill to be good because of all the hype there's been around it, especially considering it benefits from the Speed changes more than any Mega Evolution in the entire game. This thing was one of the most hyped-up Mega Evolutions regarding the instant Speed changes. However, Pheromosa clearly outdoes Mega Beedrill overall, so if the bee is to be ranked, then it'd be in the C-ranks, I suppose.

To any mods reading this: Apologies if this comment contributes nothing at all, and feel free to delete it if unnecessary. Just thought I'd give my final words on the bee.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I never thought about acid dour pour Pheromosa so I'll admit it definitely out does mega bee now

Dugtrio is fine, if anything I've been struggling to make it shine more than focus sash mamoswine that can hit a great deal more harder.

The metagame has gotten bulkier and we have a lot or revenge killer ground options that can fill many roles, my team personally doesn't need heatran/exdrill/char X taken out as before

 

[Boopiester]

Everyone is arguing about mega bee vs mosa but no one is talking about Mawile. It has quite huge tanking capabilities and has huge power on top of that. There's a reason this thing was Uber before. Is this like S, A+ or A tier?

 

[pika pal]

We were allowed to discuss their effects and influence, just bot nominate them for a rank until given some time. Mawile is definitely a Pokemon expected to show an impact, so there is discussion to be had.

 

[13_luckynumber]

Mega Alakazam to B

This thing is just really outclassed by Tapu Lele. Since basically every serious team has to prepare for the infinitely better Tapu Lele, they are prepared for Mega Alakazam too. By prepared, I mean that those teams have plans to stomach couple hits from Lele or has revenge killers to take Lele out and inherently, Zam cant do much to those teams. The speed advantage it has over Lele doesnt mean much when there is a Pheromosa or a base 102+ scrafer on every team. Zam also offers zero team support defensively (horrid defense, no Psychic Surge) or offensively (again, no Psychic surge). Zam struggles against all the strong Steel Megas (Meta (kind of), Maw, Zor) because it is either not immune to their priorities or cant hit them hard enough. These 3 Megas are much better choice for the Mega slot too. The "Psychic spam" core of Zam and Lele that was hyped earlier this gen has been dropped for the much better MegaMeta + Lele core.

tl;dr Zam is outclassed by Lele; there are better Megas for the one slot. Drop to B

Zapdos to A-

While the defensive Defog set is still solid, I believe Zapdos should rise for its offensive sets, namely Roost + 3 attacks and Agility + 3 attacks (either can be with Electrium Z). First off, Roost + (Electric + Ice + Fire coverage) is so good right now when most teams rely on the Fini/ Lando/ Tangrowth/ Heatran core as their defensive backbone. These 4 either cannot switch into Zapdos or cant do much back. Second, the Agility set is an excellent late game cleaner with the speed, coverage and the fact that it fare well against other common late game cleaners like Ash-Gren, Pheromosa, Mega Meta.

tl; dr Zapdos has good coverage and good cleaning potential, it deserves to rise to A-

Mega Pinsir to drop

Mega Pinsir still packs lots of power and can still sweep teams but i dont think it's A- material. While not outclassed by either, I prefer either Volcarona or Pheromosa as an offensive bug type atm. Volcarona has a much better set up move in Quiver Dance, has more defensive utilities, and can opt for the bulky spread for more endurance, and stab Fire is more useful because of all the steels. Pheromosa can run more sets and the Quiver Dance is infinitely better than Mega Pinsir's SD set. Also, since I nom Zapdos to move up, MegaPinsir should logically move down. I'm not too passionate about moving Pinsir down because of its power but there are better choices than it atm so it should move down to reflect that

tl;dr Mega Pinsir should be considered for a drop

 

[The Hallows]

Personally I think Tangrowth should be considered to rise from A to A+ in the VR.
Assault vest has become an invaluable glue on offense, blanket checking a plethora of mons in the tier, including Tapu Koko, ash Greninja, Serperior, Manaphy, Keldeo, and Alakazam, to name a few ,while still maintaining the bulk required to beat pokemon like Zygarde and Tapu Bulu and potentially pokemon like Garchomp & Scizor depending on your hidden power. Having a pokemon like Tangrowth that is able to consistently pivot in and out of these due to regenerator eases building an extraordinary amount in a tier where so many threats have to be prepared for.
Rocky helmet Tangrowth is also an option, being one of the few things that can consistently come in on Metagross, and can provide good team support with access to knock off & sleep powder.
Tang is one of the most splashable pokemon in ou at this point in time, and should most definitely be considered for a rise.

 

[Martin]

Mega Venusaur --> somewhere lower
I keep trying to think of reasons to use this, but in the current meta conditions I simply can't think of when I ever would.

You have three significantly more splashable megas to choose from on bulky offense/balance (Mawile, Metagross, Scizor). On stall there is no reason to not use Mega Sableye 'cause other variants have a whole host of issues which Sab patches up whilst helping the stall vs. stall matchup and turning it into utter hell for both players due to Magic Bounce's ability to block SR resulting in no way of punishing endless switching. For teams which opt to build around their chosen mega, the Zards are simply way easier to utilise as a central point for a team due to them functioning as cornerstones rather than glue, as is also the case with other megas like Sharpedo and Gyarados.

Tangrowth offers more utility as a bulky Grass-type due to its ability to keep things like Lando, Mega Metagross etc. in check, depending on Tangrowth's chosen variant, with its pure Grass typing not opening up a weakness to the common Psychic-type and retaining a Ground-type immunity, and with Regenerator it acts as a significantly better pivot in general as well. I find myself plugging Tangrowth onto the vast majority of teams nowadays, which really speaks for just how important these characteristics are relative to Mega Venusaur as well as just how valuable retaining the ability to utilise other megas is in the current meta. AV Tangrowth also does a fine job of keeping Keldeo and Ash Greninja in check, which is one of the big things that Venusaur has going for it.

 

[feel da rain]

I would like to express my belief that Bronzong should be higher than Slowbro. Bronzong has the ability to check several threats, such as Garchomp, Lando-T, Mega Metagross, Tapu Lele, Magearna, Tapu Bulu, and DD Mence. I will admit that it does not fair as well against other major threats, like Pheromosa, Greninja, Bisharp, Hoopa, Ash Gren and Gengar. Thus, I am not saying that Bronzong should be like A or A-, but I believe that B- is a but too harsh for it. Especially considering that it can form great defensive cores with others mons like Fini as well as a hazard stacking/defensive core with Toxapex. I'd therefore be happy with Bronzong rising to B (or maybe B+).
Simultaneously, I'd like to nominate Slowbro to drop from B. It does not fair well against several prominent threats and certainly does not benefit from the rise in usage of mons like Gengar. It is also relatively pointless to use it, when Toxapex is easier to use, and checks a larger portion of the metagame more efficiently.