CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Poll 7

[Deck Knight]

For the love of everything, please don't make a wrap move that does 50 BP per turn.

The move I came up with (and is still nogotiable) would have an initial BP of 50 but like Wrap have a percentage effect that dealt damage between turns. This effect would be at 1/8th HP instead of the crappy cancelled by Leftovers 1/16th. It was Ghost type and physical so it wouldn't work on any of Normal/fliers that would counter this or Bloss and Lax for that matter, but Wobbuffet wouldn't be too happy. It also didn'y have perfect accuracy, although at 90 it wouldn't exactly miss a whole lot.

The evil thing would be that you can't Rapid Spin out of it due to Ghost type, and of course it dissipates if this switches out, and this won't have Encore.

Even with stat-ups it would still be very slow. If you gave it Glare and Bulk Up and the trapping move you'd be left with one attack, probably Cross Chop, and you;d still be susceptible to special attacks from faster foes, and status.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Togekiss, you aren't going to need any of those if you can't stat up in the first place. But yah, maybe making 5-->3 or 4 would be better.

The point was if you took his ability to stat-up, he can still Cripple-Trap someone that don't shit to it. I personally don't want it to lose the ability to stat-up just to revive an lost move from the grave of crappiness =/. Beside...we don't need a new ability just for this guy.

 

[Hyra]

For the love of everything, please don't make a wrap move that does 50 BP per turn.

50 BP damage on the first hit, 1/16th of HP at the end of every turn afterwards like Magma Storm and Wrap.

 

[Automatic]

The move I came up with (and is still nogotiable) would have an initial BP of 50 but like Wrap have a percentage effect that dealt damage between turns. This effect would be at 1/8th HP instead of the crappy cancelled by Leftovers 1/16th. It was Ghost type and physical so it wouldn't work on any of Normal/fliers that would counter this or Bloss and Lax for that matter, but Wobbuffet wouldn't be too happy. It also didn'y have perfect accuracy, although at 90 it wouldn't exactly miss a whole lot.

The evil thing would be that you can't Rapid Spin out of it due to Ghost type, and of course it dissipates if this switches out, and this won't have Encore.

Even with stat-ups it would still be very slow. If you gave it Glare and Bulk Up and the trapping move you'd be left with one attack, probably Cross Chop, and you;d still be susceptible to special attacks from faster foes, and status.

Oh, awesome. That's not near as bad as I understood it when I first read it. I way misread it.

Sounds good.

 

[darkjjak]

My first vote is for Snare Trap. I'm not sure what I want to use my second vote for yet. I'm torn (pardon the pun) between three options, and they all have great cases for being this Pokemon's ability.

 

[samtheman]

Insomnia and Sand Veil.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Shadowbind:
Power: 50
Acc: 90
Attributes: Physical, contact
Type: Ghost
Effect: Ensnares the opponent for 2-5 turns, dealing 1/8th damage per turn.

50 * 1.5 = 75 in power.

What if we gave this a special ability that acts like grip claw, making its wrapping moves last for 5 turns every time (and maybe deal 1/8th damage instead of lame 1/16th). It'd be kind of Shadow Tag Lite, but it would neccesitate Wrap (that powerhouse) on a set.

1/8 + 1/8 = 1/4 or 25%

 

[Hyra]

The point was if you took his ability to stat-up, he can still Cripple-Trap someone that don't shit to it. I personally don't want it to lose the ability to stat-up just to revive an lost move from the grave of crappiness =/. Beside...we don't need a new ability just for this guy.

I'm pretty sure we can balance it. Anyways, bringing Wrap back would be amazing. Bulk Up could still actually work, since this only really gets Bronzong and Cressy as set up bait (because of Ghost not hitting the Normal types). Anyways, Bulk Up is less original and exciting than Wrap. It's really a flavor thing. The other abilities are mostly competitive based since we are molding something existing to our Pokemon. The Wrap ability is competitive and flavorful because we designed the ability based off the mummy concept.

 

[ace15]

Dry Skin and Shed Skin.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

I'm pretty sure we can balance it. Anyways, bringing Wrap back would be amazing. Bulk Up could still actually work, since this only really gets Bronzong and Cressy as set up bait (because of Ghost not hitting the Normal types). Anyways, Bulk Up is less original and exciting than Wrap. It's really a flavor thing. The other abilities are mostly competitive based since we are molding something existing to our Pokemon. The Wrap ability is competitive and flavorful because we designed the ability based off the mummy concept.

Okay I understand that and all but I was more afaird and irked out about the fact that you're ditching one of the key things that made this creature what it is today over something just to get back some old school feel.

Also, has anyone ever though of the subtle message involving bondage from it's ability and the idea of wrapping it's foe with it's bandages?

 

[zxn666]

Insomnia=win
Snare trap=win

With all the sleep moves flying around, i think it's about time we make something that can effectively counter pokemon that rely on sleep (I'm looking at you gengar and mismagius and yanmega).

 

[Ambitions]

Dry Skin Synchronize and don't rename it, thats just plain silly.

 

[Hyra]

Okay I understand that and all but I was more afaird and irked out about the fact that you're ditching one of the key things that made this creature what it is today over something just to get back some old school feel.

Also, has anyone ever though of the subtle message involving bondage from it's ability and the idea of wrapping it's foe with it's bandages?

I'm sure there's someway we can balance it. First of all, having the binding move means dropping Shadow Claw. If you want Shadow Claw, you have to use Wrap/Bind over Substitute/Other move. It's just finding the right balance of turns trap to Bulk Up power. Because 4 turns of Bulk Up for free is pretty bad. It's gonna be hard, but I'm pretty sure we could manage it.

 

[Deck Knight]

50 * 1.5 = 75 in power.



1/8 + 1/8 = 1/4 or 25%

The concepts wouldn't stack. Either the ability Snare Trap would make it deal 1/8th instead of 1/16th, or the move itself would simply have 1/8th and Snare Trap would only affect Wrap and general trap duration.

Although I did think fleetingly of making it like Stealth Rock, where it starts ar 1/8th and then, based on type, did 1/16th to types that resist Ghost and 1/4th to types weak to it (screw you Cress and Wobby >_>)

But that would be a little TOO evil.

 

[Pulse]

Oh god I hope Snare Trap doesn't win... If I understand what Gothic Togekiss is saying, then I agree that this sounds kinda broken. 75 power, high base attack stat, -1/8 per turn. For five turns. I think we should stick to the fundamentals for this, I don't really see the point in making a new ability just so people can use Wrap and the like of more. >_>

One man's take on this...

 

[Hyra]

AHA! I found out how Snare Trap isn't broken with Bulk Up.

You switch in Mummymon.
Other guy does stuff.

Guy realizes the threat and switches to Mummymon counter.
You use Shadowbind/Wrap.

Either Shadowbind hits a Normal type and fails, or you see the counter and run like crazy without being able to Bulk Up.



Basically, Snare Trap reinforces switching in a roundabout way.

 

[Deck Knight]

Oh god I hope Snare Trap doesn't win... If I understand what Gothic Togekiss is saying, then I agree that this sounds kinda broken. 75 power, high base attack stat, -1/8 per turn. For five turns. I think we should stick to the fundamentals for this, I don't really see the point in making a new ability just so people can use Wrap and the like of more. >_>

One man's take on this...

75 BP is after STAB.

In contrast, even weak STAB moves START with 75 BP. The Punches and Brick Break all start with 75 BP, and get boosted up to 112.5

And the alternative to 1/8th is 1/16th. 1/16th blows. It's cancelled out by Leftovers, and this won't likely be trapping very well in a Sandstorm. 105 Base Atk also isn't that high, and it is resoundingly inept if your plan is to use Shadowbind(as I have dubbed it) as a primary attack move. It's weaker than Shadow Punch and doesn't have perfect accuracy, although I suppose you could make the case the 1/8th makes up for the BP differential.

Using Shadowbind on this for your main offense would be like using Charge Beam on Jolteon for your main offense. It just doesn't have the power to KO anything, even things weak to it. Nothing in existence is 4x weak to Ghost, the only thing that would be is Ghost/Psychic. In a best case scenario, where supereffective, this is equivalent to Primeape Karate Chop.

After a Bulk Up, this has the power of Primeape Brick Break. After 2, Primeape Cross Chop. In other words, this should not ever be constituted as a primary form of attack. It's a better built trapping move, not a sweeper/trapper hybrid like Magma Storm.

Much as I hate to bust my own ideas:

AHA! I found out how Snare Trap isn't broken with Bulk Up.

You switch in Mummymon.
Other guy does stuff.

Guy realizes the threat and switches to Mummymon counter.
You use Shadowbind/Wrap.

Either Shadowbind hits a Normal type and fails, or you see the counter and run like crazy without being able to Bulk Up.

Basically, Snare Trap reinforces switching in a roundabout way.

One set with Bulk Up that would be fairly effective:

Shadowbind
Bulk Up
Substitute
Focus Punch

There's loads of dangers to switching in here. Normal types have to fear Focus Punch. Steel type switchins will need a psuedohazingf move, but otherwise can come in fairly well. However, if this traps something like Bronzong while behind a Sub, it'll be a tough rut for opponents. Shadowbind won't ever have unholy power, but after two bulk ups it will be as good standalone as Cross Chop. Focus Punch will obliterate anything that doesn't resist.

We may want to rethink the number of trapping turns down to 3 or 4. This set could be quite a force. Not even Staraptor wants to switch in on Focus Punch more than once or twice.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

I'm sure there's someway we can balance it. First of all, having the binding move means dropping Shadow Punch.

Never had Shadow Claw to begin with since it doesn't have claws but that's not the main point you were trying to get.

If you want Shadow Punch, you have to use Wrap/Bind over Substitute/Other move.

"Moveset Sydrome? in mah pokeyman??"

Yeah...I think having that alone kinda balance him out lol

It's just finding the right balance of turns trap to Bulk Up power. Because 4 turns of Bulk Up for free is pretty bad. It's gonna be hard, but I'm pretty sure we could manage it.

This here is the only part that is important to me and I agree, a right balance between stat-up and trapping is needed.

@Deck Knight~ Why did you chose 50 BP on the attack anyway?

 

[Bourbon]

SHED SKIN or ROUGH SKIN is good for me. Rough Skin on a tank would be awesome... Shed Skin would allow it to absorb status in a pinch.

 

[Deck Knight]

Never had Shadow Claw to begin with since it doesn't have claws but that's not the main point you were trying to get.

"Moveset Sydrome? in mah pokeyman??"

Yeah...I think having that alone kinda balance him out lol

This here is the only part that is important to me and I agree, a right balance between stat-up and trapping is needed.

@Deck Knight~ Why did you chose 50 BP on the attack anyway?

I chose it at random basically. 50 BP is where all the, shall we say, WEIRD attacks land. Rock Tomb? 50 BP. Charge Beam? 50 BP.

60 would be too powerful and would always usurp Shadow Punch.

55 didn't feel right.

80 or more would have been like "LOL Deck you broken &%$*er."

40 seems uncharacteristic, since that's where all the priority moves and attack basics land.

Wrap, Sand Tomb, and Bind are all at 15. They're also patently useless because of it. At least Sand Tomb gets STAB on most things.

30 would invade Astonish's territory.

Which left 50, which seems to be characteristic enough without being overpowered.

 

[Pneuma]

I would have thought 40BP, a "double Wrap" as it were.

 

[junior]

Synchronize and Insomnia seems appropriate for a mummy.

 

[Sheed]

Insomnia and Shed Skin

Thinking purely off of flavor purposes, it doesn't seem likely that a 'dead' poke is going to sleep. Actually, it doesn't seem like it'd get any status conditions, and if it did, it'd have endless ages of knowledge to rid itself of such problems.

 

[speedwobbles225]

rough skin + insomnia

 

[Deck Knight]

I would have thought 40BP, a "double Wrap" as it were.

Eh, felt a little too stretched, and 40 BP for a non-priority move is crap. It's why Icicle Spear and Bullet Seed will never be used.

For me 50 BP is the tolerance threshold for any attack whose somewhat mediocre effect makes up for BP loss. Rapid Spin's effect is extremely powerful, as is Knock Off's. Temporary trapping is situational at best, and this won't be getting "free Bulk Ups" even after a switch because every turn it uses Bulk Up, it could be hit by Will-O-Wisp, Hypnosis, STAB EQ, or some other thing. It isn't like Wobbuffet where if you're trapped you're playing roulette or facing Encore.

I'd never use Charge Beam if it were 40 BP. Even with the 70% SA to boost it, it would still be crap. I'd actually consider using Sand Tomb on Steelix if it had 50 BP. The reason Wrap moves aren't prevalent or even seen is because the trapping moves are plagued by bad accuracy, insignificant damage, and a crappy effect. Even Magma Storm, which does have awesome BP, isn't seen over Fire Blast or Overheat on Heatran because of the questionable Acc, despite the fact it would give a "free turn" of setup to Heatran.