Metagame SS PU Alpha Discussion Thread

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I don´t play competitive too often, so please take my contribution with a grain of salt. I usually play just to have some fun. That said, here are some sets I like that are a lot of fun to use.

Lampent @ Eviolite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Flamethrower
- Pain Split/haze

I think that lampent is very underrated. It´s one of the very few viable fire types in the tier, and the only one that can do an effective defensive set. The great thing about Lampent is that it's not as passive as many other defensive Pokemon, which let it scare out mons like ninjask, first impression fraxure and gourgeist, as well as other defensive pokemon like vespiquen or solrock. It doesn't fear getting trapped by trapinch, unlike other fire types, which is nice. In fact, offensive sets with energy ball can directly threaten non-sucker punch trapinch sets.

Speaking of offensive sets, lampent can also run scarf or specs sets with trick. It plays very similar to rotom, actually.


Noctowl @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hypnosis
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave/roost
- Nasty Plot

A different take on double dance noctowl. Hypnosis can possibly remove the opponents best noctowl switch in, which can be huge. Obviously, it's not reliable at all, but it can be extremely deadly if it works. If you miss a hypnosis or hurricane, you get a free agility boost, which allows noctowl to sweep. Compared to the normal double dance noctowl set, this set has the advantage of better setup upportunity thanks to hypnosis. The downside is that it's much less reliable, obviously. Still, it's a nice set if you want to test your luck.

now we are really delving into meme territory

Machoke @ Choice Specs
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 208 HP / 252 SpA / 48 Spe (speed is to outrun mawile)
Rash Nature
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Vacuum Wave
- Bullet punch/Knock Off/whatever

Since mawile is everywhere, I wanted a good way to bait it out reliably. Specs no guard machoke is the best thing I could come up with, since it's the only thing with fire blast that draws mawile in like every single time. I don't know what spread mawile usually runs, but specs fire blast OHKO's max HP mawile reliably. fully specially defensive careful varients are still 2HKO'd. specs vacuum wave is a guaranteed OHKO on max HP Stonjourner and pawniard, and it 2HKO's frail fighting-weak Pokemon like Liepard and Persian. The problem with this set is that it relies heavily on surprise factor, It's easily walled by fairies and ghosts. Still, successfully luring in mawile or ninjask can be gamechanging.
 
Machoke @ Choice Specs
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 208 HP / 252 SpA / 48 Spe (speed is to outrun mawile)
Rash Nature
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Vacuum Wave
- Bullet punch/Knock Off/whatever

Since mawile is everywhere, I wanted a good way to bait it out reliably. Specs no guard machoke is the best thing I could come up with, since it's the only thing with fire blast that draws mawile in like every single time. I don't know what spread mawile usually runs, but specs fire blast OHKO's max HP mawile reliably. fully specially defensive careful varients are still 2HKO'd. specs vacuum wave is a guaranteed OHKO on max HP Stonjourner and pawniard, and it 2HKO's frail fighting-weak Pokemon like Liepard and Persian. The problem with this set is that it relies heavily on surprise factor, It's easily walled by fairies and ghosts. Still, successfully luring in mawile or ninjask can be gamechanging.
I imagine Knock Off is the better option in 4th slot, but to go off of this all the fairies we have (besides Mawile and I guess Togetic) get hit hard by Heavy Slam which will probably be 120BP so its not an unreasonable option. Even with a Modest nature you're still doing upwards of 50% on Specially Defensive Clefairy (and between 33-40% on Physically Defensive), if you stick with Rash that could get you a 2HKO on PDef Clefairy with 20% chip.

0- Atk Machoke Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Clefairy: 184-218 (53.4 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Machoke Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Clefairy: 114-136 (33.1 - 39.5%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO

0 Atk Machoke Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Clefairy: 206-244 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Machoke Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Clefairy: 128-152 (37.2 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned deucer.
I've lost the first 3 drafts of this, but the rate which the meta has been shifting is completely spontaneous and even paradoxical at times and writing this slowly helped me enjoy this meta more, definitely still pretty shallow compared to Pu Gen 7 but I think with maybe just a one at a time Ban of: ninjask, Type: Null and maybe throh, we'd have a fairly stable meta it looks.

However



NinJask a monster and a thief of chip​

If You are 2 hit Koed by ninjask as something in this meta You are seriously screwed if You need to stay in for 2 turns and You need to stay inside Your pokeball. This can be set-up sweepers or running 2 utility moves like screens, hazards, weather, TR, and etc. Ninjask systematically undoes all Your work, it ironically is more anti-momentum in many games while still being a breaker/pivot/cleaner, but must commit to being a sweeper, which it can Ko max bulk carkol/mawile with sword Dance life orb Dig so yay, better win con coverage.


It fits on basically every team, often if You're running sun and are worried about being speed checked past timid ivysaur like mane, raichu, scarf leafeon, stone J or other ninjask, You can run protect/sunny day/defog on top of chipping them down for a 2 hit ko or force to make a sack to take more hazard chip, or if You're the type of person doesn't fuck around with leads, let it be known.

252+ Atk Normal Gem Ninjask Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Manectric: 272-321 (96.7 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Ninjask @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Final Gambit
- Protect
- Aerial Ace

This set out speeds modest theifval +2 by 1 extra point and Final gambit Ko's scarf Stone J after rocks and that's kind of nuts seeing how we only have 7 mons with base 100 or more 252 Hp give You 326 Damage

This KO's Type Null at 78.1% and slaps throh and mush around for high hp threats, but doesn't check lapras, only doesn't 65% vs max hp if You want

Ninjask basically 2 hit kos all the things that can creep up to it running lower speed, but in the rare event he's outspeed after a protect

This outspeeds max speed jolly+1 and Ko's ninjask if You want a lure? You can play with it's speed, it can out run adamant 200 speed evs +2
at 216 evs jolly Leaf hits 924 speed while ninjask jolly 252 evs +2 hits 920. So cool anti sun vs sun/ninjask tech

Leafeon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 108 SpA / 20 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Weather Ball
- Solar Blade
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off

2 hit kos ivysaur and bulk hp no Special evs calm shiinotic after rocks/leftovers with weatherball and hp is a nice amount vs First impress+hazards and nails max hp ninjask



Personally on slower teams with ninjask I like to run

423 speed because it outspeeds +2 jolly leafeon or
436 for + 2 modest swoobat

In general Ninjask never needs more speed than that and should always have some bulk investment, so be mindful that You shouldn't be able to correct Calcs unless it Kos max Defense ninjask anyways, so a +1 lapras ice sharding can cause some serious problems with just using spare evs of investment


+1 252+ Atk Lapras Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask: 302-356 (114.8 - 135.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Lapras Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 140 Def Ninjask: 236-282 (89.7 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Lapras Ice Shard vs. 8 HP / 248 Def Ninjask: 204-240 (76.9 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Ninjask Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Lapras: 280-330 (69.8 - 82.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Hustle Delibird Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 140 Def Ninjask: 276-326 (104.9 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Hustle Delibird Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Ninjask: 236-278 (89.7 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Snover Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Ninjask: 224-266 (85.1 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after hail damage

+2 252+ Atk Shellder Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Ninjask: 154-182 (58.5 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Ninjask Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Shellder: 153-181 (76.1 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


Why I tired Sheller in this meta, not terrible, beats contact pokemon besides mawile who it 2 hit Ko's at +1 and outspeeds raichu at +2 Adamant
give it a try

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Beartic Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 100 Def Ninjask: 195-230 (74.1 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
Truly a sad amount of damage


252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Basculin Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask: 214-252 (81.3 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Mystic Water Adaptability Basculin Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 200 Def Ninjask: 112-132 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Ninjask Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Basculin: 219-258 (77.9 - 91.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ Atk Liepard Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask: 271-319 (103 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Pawniard Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask: 177-208 (67.3 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Pawniard Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Ninjask: 235-277 (89.3 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

+1 252+ Atk Trevenant Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask: 209-247 (79.4 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Grapploct Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask: 220-259 (83.6 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Grapploct Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 140 Def Ninjask: 229-270 (87 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

So close Grapploct, but very doable in the right positions.
It really needs the attack investment to make+1/+2 look so good

+2 252+ Atk Shedinja Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask: 243-287 (92.3 - 109.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Honedge Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask: 195-229 (74.1 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 140 Def Ninjask: 239-282 (90.8 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO



252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask: 209-246 (79.4 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Trapinch First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask: 126-148 (47.9 - 56.2%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Fraxure First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask: 140-165 (53.2 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


But it really doesn't care about having to deal with most priority as long as You can u-turn/switch/Protect out from there



+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Ninjask Dig vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Carkol: 400-473 (110.1 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Ninjask Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Type: Null: 216-255 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Ninjask Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gloom: 242-283 (74.6 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Ninjask Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Type: Null: 216-255 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


The only realiblecounters are lapras and Stone J which can easily be beaten/put into range with scarf leafeon(energy ball/leaf storm needed)
Sillvally fighting, water

But You also consider AV Grapplolock, throh, mush, machoke, Bronzor can switch into both specs and banded running max defense then pairs with anything that eats water+ Fire coverage forever like

+1 252+ Atk Stonjourner Heat Crash (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arctovish: 105-124 (32.7 - 38.6%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO


it just seems like this thing has endless wacky bullshit tech, and it loves to burn items and I just can't seem to stop digging deeper into the amount options this thing has.
140 SpA Ninjask Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Stonjourner: 382-450 (112 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO



I really hope we quick ban Ninjask at the start of the next drop, I don't think we can handle this pokemon well without making starting reading+creating conditions that the other player can see easier knowing their set

Quick Ban it

I think is a pokemon little lillgant in the sense the meta wraps around it, but it's not as threatening but much less check-able and swarming on at least 25% of these teams I play. I just completely controls the flow of games protecting through critical turns and forcing teams to build what seems like otherwise shaky(they just u-turned or You switched in to it at +2) pivots without recovery or trying to luck fish vs it with stuff like static/fake out

Thank You Pu, overall enjoyed my time
 
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Sliggoo is good. Very much so, sap sipper allows it to check certain grass types, although bellosom wins most of the time without chip. It's specially bulky and decently fast. Here's the set I use, probably could be improved upon.
Sliggoo @ Eviolite
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Muddy Water
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
If your opponent lacks a capable fairy this set is very effective. Another slept on mon is Torracat. Torracat can check Mawile and Ninjask, pivot and potentially sweep but not likely. Its coverage is poor but its fast, and can get free switch-ins with its decent bulk with eviolite to things like Clefairy.
Torracat @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Double Kick
- Parting Shot
Double kick is its best shot at doing anything to Carkoal, although Toxic may very well be a superior option.
This tier is fairly jank right now, I feel Mawile is more busted than Ninjask as Ninjask has more solid counters than Mawile. Final Gambit Ninjask is a powerful wallbreaker but it guarantees Ninjask's death so idk.
Mawile @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Blast/Fire Fang
I don't know why Mawile has fire blast, but it eliminates perhaps its best counter, the bulky version of itself. SD Mawile is silly once it reaches +2 you have to have sucker punch resists or fast strong priority users, otherwise you're done. Mawile seems ridiculously powerful, both it and Ninjask need to suspected in beta.
Also ban arena trap. I don't think it's great for the tier.
Edit: I loove this feeling of being able to use sucky Pokemon. After the DLC drops we will probably get back to the old PU, which while ok isn't quite what I and several others are looking for. Could you perhaps create a new tier under PU when this happens, and call it the Useless tier? You could simply list it as Useless or use a single U as the acronym. Please, I want to be able to continue to use silly bad Pokemon.
 


Onix @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Body Press
- Toxic/Explosion

Stonjourner is a better lead, but I still think Onix has its place due to Taunt. Body Press does nice damage, and Toxic can be used to cripple bulkier Pokemon or just simply explode to get out of there.


Raichu @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Encore
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
I think Encore is a cool tech that helps to set it apart from Manectric. Raichu outspeeds most of the tier and can easily clean up a game when facing Pokemon that spam recovery, such as Clefairy.
 
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Leni

formerly tlenit
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SCL Champion
RUPL Champion
Hi Y'all,

Heavy post incoming and mostly sharing a different opinion compared to big crowd (yup yup, lets break this bubble and get some hits...). Splitting this post in three different parts; my own lil thoughts about last month (nothing special really) - So called broken mons that arent rly that broken imo - and the summary what I would like to see happening.

Before I start, this is just me sharing another perspective which is differs a lot, try to see the point and give a second though. I will gladly argument more if needed.

The lil thoughts in the first place:
-The first month has been pretty interesting in every perspective. Lot of players went in with big hype and saying how good, healthy and fun meta it is. This opinion has taken a big u-turn from ninjask, which is quite sad to hear. I have been very active on ladder and using big bunch of stuff and trying to find some low key stuff that actually can pull off something that is worth mentioning. After prolly like 800 games (yup i pretty much always play 3-4 games same time to get "data" out) I actually think the meta is pretty fine outside of couple things (buffed silvally forms :(((((, but i will let this one be decided by someone else). Meta itself is super offensive and you need to be ready for that. Outside of that, stall as well does work very well - not preferably playstyle, but works.

Broken, but rly not that broken imo;
Where would I even start, since there is so many broken stuff on paper what people likes to get banned, lets start with this;

Throh:
Pros: Fat (120hp, 85def, 85spDef), fighting typing (no competition really on tier rn), good move pool (runs on paper 10move slots and 3 items), leaves the opponent guessing set on preview.

Cons: Slow (base 45, which leaves it 126 total without investment, takes multiple turns to set it up if bulk up set - otherwise it will chip itself with f-orb, gets worn down easily to be revenge killed, tier carries multiple fairy, flying and psychic types aaaand unfortunately there is only room for 4 move slots and 1 item. "cant take max. benefit of its move pool"

Throh has been one of the main mons to get boot (what i have heard), but I really do disagree with this. Throh's biggest problem is being super slow and allowing opponent to get pretty much their counters in without fear. But what are these counters? The tier carries a big bunch of good stuff that actually takes a benefit of Throh offensively and defensively like;

Offensive list: Mawile, Silvally flying, Ninjask, Noctowl, Meowstick F as an example

Defensive list: Musharna, Gothitelle, Hakamo-O with Roar, Shiinotic, Gloom, Gourgeist super and large, Clefairy as an example. And yes, I am counting so far Shiinotic and clefairy untill i see the first poison jab throh.

Prolly main issue for me while discussing about throh is it having suddenly more than 4 move slots. Whatever you bring on table, you get a countered "BUT it can use this as well", but do you really run Pjab-taunt-knock-superpower? And same time some what its bulking up and resting to be immortal? I do agree it being top tier mon, but I dont see it being too big problem because of all the cons it brings with it.

Ninjask:
Pros: Fastest mon in the tier with protect (160base), non-item acrobatics buff helps it to deal damage compared to last gen, very straight forward mon and easy to use.

Cons: Frail (61hp, 45def and 50spDef), runs basically only two sets - very predictable, typing (weak to 5 different things + 50% from rocks), cant afford being statused. I guess I can add Trapinch leaving just in a bit - waiting still for OU's call

First of all, I do get the point where lots of people wants to give a boot for ninjask, because of its amazing speed tier and 120acro stab without item. In the other hand, I think to deal with ninjask is quite easy and simple. To beat ninjask you pretty much need to be aware what you are aiming for. Ninjask can not afford to take rocky helmet damage and land on range of pretty much any prio move and all because how frail it is. Ninjask alone hates to see any steel or rock type which forces it to click almost always a 'safe' u-turn, but same time taking the possible rocky helmet damage. If you happen to get Ninjask forced to take stealth rocks damage, it pretty much means its a dead mon vs. any prio user on your own side. Imo ninjask is a mon that you take down within two parts and differs from there to the 'usuals'- chipping it in the first place to range of 55-70% w/ r-helmet (for some extreme speed users its enough to 85% already) and following up with prio.

Defensively Ninjask is checked by: Mawile, Carkol (u-turn burn lets goooo), Klang, Kufant, Stonjourner, Stufful (yup... it actually can take it), honedge, defensive wishi, togetic, type null and dusknoir.

Offensively after minimum chip its taken down by as an example: Mawile, pikachu, raichu, CB fraxure, copycat liepard, basculin, other ninjask, "any sash user" - this list can go on and on because how frail ninjask is. The fact as well it can not kill most of the stuff without setting up the +2 creates a big bunch of mid ground mind games in games.

Overall I think this thing will fall from its biggest hype and hard. There is most likely dropping a galarian stunfisk which will be nice little add into book of counters. Once again, I do agree with it being a top tier mon, but it being so frail to literally everything - it can have its spot in PU - especially after Trapinch leaving the PU which basically has worked as its wingman.

I hear time to time "there is not enough things to check this thing" - my question back would be; What is enough? What needs to be there, to get you think its fine?

Arctovish:

This is pretty straight forward drop, because it literally runs two sets and main job is to spam fishious rend. I am personally as well on edge with this little fella, because of stone edge coverage that blows up lapras and opponents Arctovish. Because of mediocre speed base 50 and bad typing I would give it a "second shot" and check how meta develops from here. I find arctovish being a good stall breaker, but killing itself due to rocks and one hit from opponent right now. Forces to mind games, but thats what good breaker does most often anyways.

The Summary:

I know there is even more stuff under the gun and getting the bullet most likely, but what im definitely looking forward from council is not hurrying up with things. The tier started 29 days ago and every month new drops will change stuff upside down. The further we go, the more well built teams we will get out of the factory' - lot of teams struggles a good balance right now while testing new cool stuffs and techs. Which really is normal - but takes time to settle things down. I wouldn't be too worried about stuff outside of the most obvious ones, but this is something council will decide which mons goes into this category. Banning lot of stuff now opens just the door for other things current top "vr" mons has kept in their shadows like Noctowl (idk rly if this would be the biggest threat, but in theory would be fine - like its good even now) - not sure how this would fix the issue while the tier is changing after every month.

Im definitely looking forward to get few fatter mid ground mons to slow down the tier from almost hyper offensive meta ^^. Overall I have had fine time figuring out new workable things like the latest Stufful - this thing takes physical threats like nothing.

I surely forgot something, but lets go with this lil post
Feel free to hmu for further questions/convy, i dont mind so far we keep it appropriate

oh yeah, and thanks if you bothered to take your time for this, I appreciate it

-Tle1
 
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Defensively Ninjask is checked by: Mawile, Carkol (u-turn burn lets goooo), Klang, Kufant, Stonjourner, Stufful (yup... it actually can take it), honedge, defensive wishi, togetic, type null and dusknoir.
Speaking of the devil, heres the set if you want memes.

Stufful @ Eviolite
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Swords Dance
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Ninjask U-turn vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 84-100 (24.4 - 29.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Stufful Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask: 280-330 (106.4 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Stufful Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 192-226 (63.3 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Stufful Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Type: Null: 210-248 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Type: Null Crush Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 63-75 (18.3 - 21.8%) -- possible 5HKO

+2 252+ Atk Type: Null Crush Claw vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 124-147 (36.1 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So yeah, keep this thing away from stuff like musharna and your good.
 

termi

bike is short for bichael
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
hiii im here to weigh in on what i experienced to be problematic mons in this alpha that probably should be looked into, divided between those that i think are unquestionably broken and those that might be broken but could be salvageable depending on how the meta shapes itself during beta

:trapinch: i dont rly have to go into this because everybody kinda knows by now, but arena trap is extremely stupid and trapinch just perfectly abuses it in this meta. having a thing that can consistently remove stuff like mawile, carkol, stonjourner etc is crazy in a meta in which u need mons like that to keep stuff like ninjask, persian etc real. i assume the ou arena trap ban will happena dnw ill be transitive so i guess no action has to be taken but yeah arena trap dumb

:noctowl: i mercifully havent ran into many of these but this thing is 101% broken, specs simply has nothing in the way of switchins bar like, type null and sdef clef (and even that i think has a chance of dying to 2 specs hurricanes). base 70 speed is really solid for a breaker this powerful in this meta, there's plenty of teams where noctowl can come in on several things and just claim a mon, it's broken beyond question and i dont see anything changing that

:throh: i disagree with tlenit's post here, i think throh is absolutely broken. the problem with throh is not that it has no counterplay, but that it a: can circumvent most counterplay because of how many sets it can viably run and b: it is usually just not possible to know what your opponent's throh is running from team preview, so it becomes a game of guessing and pure chance. does my shiinotic counter that throh or does it run pjab? can i safely click synthesis with my gourgeist or will they taunt it? can my defensive mawile pivot in or do they chunk me with storm throw? can my specs noctowl kill it from full or is it av? the problem is that there is not a defined set of throh sets and spreads that are "better" than the rest, so you often can't make a reliable assumption with regard to what it is running and it just comes down to guessing and hoping that your opponent isn't running the throh set that beats your throh answer(s). while it is possible that no one throh set is broken in a vacuum, the sheer versatility of this thing just puts it way over the top for me

also tlenit ridicules the idea but superpower/knock/pjab/taunt with flame orb + guts sounds like a perfectly viable set, in fact bar like silvally-poison and bulky psychics i struggle to think of mons that can reliably switch into this set more than once

:arctovish: fishious rends hits so hard that i often feel like running arctovish or lapras is the only thing u can do to keep this thing real, everything else that can potentially check it either gets worn down too easily (silv-water) or only wins vs specific sets (palpitoad can check choiced sets but hbd/av can freeze-dry it for free). tlenit seems to think it's healthy but he also seems to think the choiced sets are the only good sets, but hbd is probably the best one in the sense that it a: requires zero team support to function and b: is actually very hard to kill because without hazards chip, its great natural bulk really shines. hbd and av sets also don't suffer from the need to predict very much, if your opponent isn't running lapras or an arcto of their own there isn't much reason not to click fishious and chunk something hard. i dont see this thing ever being healthy in this meta, it will always be an overcentralizing threat that can easily adapt to metagame trends (if u guys start running mareanie and pyuku catch me running sub metronome)

:silvally: this thing is a really weird one. its power level is simply way above most other things in the meta to the point where even if u ban the more immediately problematic forms, different forms that currently see little usage will simply rise to the top and take the place of the previously dominant forms. with this in mind, i think going thru individual vally forms to see which ones are broken will simply take way too much time and effort, so i think an initial blanket ban on all forms is preferred, even if it might cause some "collateral." this does mean that the meta would be reshaped entirely, however, since rn it's silvally: the meta, but i think until pu experiences a power creep post-dlc there is no hope for the vast majority of vally forms to be anywhere near manageable relative to other pokemon in the tier, so it's better to deal with the problem at once so we don't have to deal with continuous instability. if we do want to keep certain vally forms around, i think it's a better approach to "retest" them after a month or two, once the most immediately problematic stuff is gone and the meta has settled a bit

--------------------------

:glaceon: specs glaceon is a lot like noctowl in that its raw power + lack of stab resists makes it nigh impossible to check defensively without resorting to type null, although it does have more niche checks that could potentially keep it real (carkol and klang in particular). currently i like to run av vish + something that can tank 2 specs freeze-dries, which is really less than ideal but i guess it's better than nothing. not the most immediate problem but i think after a few bans this thing becomes unsustainable

:mawile: i absolutely dont want this thing to get banned but i think depending on what we do and don't get from nu this thing could be too much. lo sheer force, u may have noticed, has almost nothing in the way of switchins. defensive mawile loses to lo because it cant do enough in return and gets sd'd on (also iirc iron head comes close to 2hkoing, never mind the possibility of fire blast), meanwhile other steel types just hate switching into knock variants, mareanie also absolutely cant afford to come in on a knock, fire types not named silvally-fire also hate taking knocks and are often too frail (im experimenting with bulky torracat for a reason). the main things keeping this thing real are its lacking speed and frailty, plus the fact that it has to predict sometimes but there is a strange lack of good steel resists in this meta so it often ends up being able to freely click iron head vs a number of teams.

:ninjask: im more open to the idea that this thing is broken now that ive been playing around with it more, but i def think it's way lower on the priority list than some ppl appear to believe. think it mostly just benefits a lot from the instability of the meta atm, altho i do think with the right support it can do a lot of chipping with u-turn that could be a bit unhealthy. definitely one we should hold off on looking into until the meta is sorted out a bit more tho, especially since its offensive utility allows it to keep a lot of things in check that would otherwise be a lot more problematic (see: rain dance ludicolo, dual dance noctowl, unburden thievul)

:swoobat: this is rly more about the specific combination of pincurchin + electric seed swoobat than anything else, because without electric seed it's simply too easy to rk swoobat for it to be an issue. with electric seed tho, it can definitely tear thru teams if it has the right moves, defensive counterplay is limited to stuff that can tank a +2 140 bp stored power and can status it in return, which is not a lot. i have also seen electric seed thievul like every other game on the ladder and it functions similarly, with the main difference being that it does not hit as hard immediately, but is even harder to revenge unless u run jask. the lack of viable dark types outside of pawniard and silvally-dark makes this thing kinda annoying to deal with. if either of these mons turn out to be an issue, i think it would be better to look into pincurchin/electric surge/electric seed since they only function this well with specific team support

:type null: been seeing ppl saying this is likely broken and like, i can kinda see it but it doesn't feel like an issue atm. there's not a lot that can outright kill it but i think there are plenty of ways to prep for it in building, whether it is thru normal resists with taunt (mawile, onix (run body press!), dusknoir except it sucks do not run dusknoir), setup sweepers (mawile, pawniard, honedge, klang) or simply raw breaking power (cb stonjourner, grapploct, and the broken arcto & throh). feel like this thing will end up being balanced and mostly just catches flak because its amazing bulk seems overwhelming at a glance and the sheer amount of threats to prep for atm can leave ppl unguarded against it, but i think it'll be fine long term. still worth keeping an eye on tho

:machoke: this thing isn't rly broken it's just supremely annoying to play against and i hate it. dpunch gives u a 1/3 chance to screw whatever ur opponent's machoke check is out of being able to retaliate/heal up/get hazards up/set up/etc and that just kinda sucks, doesn't rly feel competitive. whenever i face a machoke and im not running a colbur geist i dont rly feel like i am "in control" vs this mon so i just wanna mention that i hate this thing and if ur not a coward u should not ever be running no guard dynamicpunch nonsense. if throh does one good thing for this meta it is that its popularity means less machoke and less machoke means less sad termi

there's other stuff that could be too much in the long term but it's hard to say rn since their status depends even more heavily on how the meta progresses than this bunch, so i won't discuss them for the time being. alpha has been pretty neat all things considered, im excited to see what pu will look like when we hit beta!
 
Sidenote: Power Trick :ss/shuckle: is also viable down here. 230 Base Attack off of 1 move is epic.

(for those who don't know, power trick switches your defense and attack stats. So shuckle after using power trick would have 230 attack and 20 defense)
 
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Power Trick :ss/shuckle: is also viable down here. 230 Base Attack off of 1 move is epic.
Its a cool gimmick imo, but you still have 5 base speed. Trick Room anybody? :o

Anyway, I've been meaning to talk about what some people may call 'groundvally food'. I have noticed that Manectric is being used more than Raichu, even with the prevalence of groundvally. It could be that only ground types threaten specs mane, because as we can see:
252 SpA Choice Specs Manectric Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Shiinotic: 264-312 (81.4 - 96.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
That is Spdef Shiinotic, which gets OHKOd from non-boosted throh's pjab. Physdef shiinotic lives everything; clearly the set to run, but that's beyond the point.
252+ Atk Throh Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 268-316 (82.7 - 97.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Manectric is simply 'groundvally food'. It cannot touch silvally unless it is specs.
252 SpA Choice Specs Manectric Overheat over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally-Ground: 286-337 (86.4 - 101.8%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO
And that doesn't even KO. Manectric runs choice scarf quite often as well, which just gives it a harder time beating groundvally.

People may debate against me saying that one could switch out. This just gives way for the vally to SD up. You may be saying now that one could resist the multiattack. However, flying types fall to rock slide and grass types fall to uturn or flame charge. Switching out from groundvally gives the groundvally the sweep. Simply, Silvally-Ground can come in on Manectric and proceed to win the game does the opponent not have gourgeist or Shiinotic (which for some reason I seem to have mentioned many more times than I originally thought I would; Manectric Shiinotic core??)

Raichu, on the other hand, is becoming increasingly good. One reason for this is that it loves to come in on a free switch. It is especially good when coming in against a water type such as wishiwashi, arctovish or lapras (especially if they are not at full health). Not only can raichu click a volt switch when unsure (as it can run a not choice item viably), it can also click grass knot, predicting a groundvally.
I cannot count how many times in the past few days that i have seen no ground type or some sort eleresist on the opposing side at team preview (quite a good way to see if they have a good chance of having groundvally on their team), got a free switch with Raichu onto something like Lapras (which is getting much more usage) and clicked grass knot, predicting the groundvally. This gives me a 2HKO in every scenario
252 SpA Life Orb Raichu Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Silvally-Ground: 182-216 (54.9 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Have fun actually not needing to predict anything with Overheat and also not getting the Overheat predicted by your opp :/
 

zS

this is all a moo point
is a Top Tiering Contributor
NUPL Champion
Hello everyone, we are near of the end of alpha so I am going to dump 3 of my favorite teams so far in here :
:spritzee: :pyukumuku: :vibrava: :bronzor: :glaceon: :hattrem: : I've tried to build a stall team based around cm zee which has more hp than clef and is a bit bulkier so I went with it. 2 wish passers in Glaceon and Spritzee and also 2 heal bell/aromatherapy users in Glaceon and Hattrem. Hattrem helps against teams that would like to hazard stack so it's pretty cool. Pyuku's there for some annoying setup Sweepers and that's almost all about the team. it's biggest weakness might be mold breaker sub throh because it doesn't have any phazer but i think you can still manage to win the 1v1 with cm zee.
https://pokepast.es/0935f35679bb5be0
:machoke: :raichu: :vullaby: :lapras: :silvally: :mawile: : Next we have an offensive team built around flame orb machoke + specs raichu core. Machoke is an absolute beast, as conkeldurr is in OU, only switch in is colbur gourgeist and it takes a lot of damage from Knock off. Try it, you won't be disappointed.
https://pokepast.es/8bfc066ef5831493
:pikachu: :roselia: :lapras: :pawniard: :silvally: :ninjask: : Pikachu has now access to Fake Out + Extreme Speed and this is absolutely huge paired with hazard stack and voltturn. Ninjask gives speed control and Momentum to the team but it can also be a really good setup Sweeper late game. Stole that pawniard set from of Many's teams and It is really cool to use. This pawniard's able to take a non boosted heat wave from swoobat to put it in range of ninjask which is awesome.
https://pokepast.es/9fe64bb8fef42806
I really enjoyed PU alpha and I hope we'll get some cool things from NU next month. Cya all in Beta!
 

TONE

I don't have to take this. I'm going for a walk.
is a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Seeing as this is the last day before we exit Alpha and tier shifts happen, I'll drop some of my teams here as well.


Grapploct @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Brutal Swing
- Sucker Punch
- Ice Punch

Musharna @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 148 Def / 252 SpA / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Future Sight
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Moonlight

Ninjask
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Protect
- Leech Life
- Acrobatics

Mawile @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Play Rough
- Super Fang
- Toxic

Silvally-Ground @ Ground Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Rock Slide
- Defog
- Parting Shot

Bellossom @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strength Sap
- Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Moonblast


So I wanted to utilize Future Sight Musharna and felt it was best paired with Banded Grapploct as it deals with any Dark-type trying to take the Future Sight (yes Musharna has Moonblast I know). From there Ninjask was added as a wincon plus it appreciates Grapploct weakening Stonjourner and Mawile for it, standard Mawile is standard, Silvally-Ground for electric immunitly, hazard control, and Parting Shot support for Ninjask as well as Bellossom which is the backup wincon and Water check.


Gothitelle @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Mean Look
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Rest

Vespiquen (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Roost
- Air Slash
- U-turn

Mawile @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Play Rough
- Super Fang
- Knock Off

Wishiwashi @ Leftovers
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- U-turn

Silvally-Ground @ Ground Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Rock Slide
- Defog
- Parting Shot

Drakloak @ Eviolite
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower


So I really wanted to try out Gothitelle, mainly due to the fact that it now has access to Cosmic Power and Stored Power, making it a great wincon on a semi-stall team like this. I've seen some sets with Rest + Sleep Talk, but I ditched Sleep Talk for Mean Look as it can trap and set up on passive mons that can't take Gothitelle out in one or two hits. To make it a bit better, I knew i wanted Toxic Spikes support and went back and forth between Vespiquen and Roselia, but ultimately decided on Vespiquen due to providing a Ground immunity which I didn't have otherwise while also maintaining a Fighting check. Standard Mawile set, but Knock Off is here for item removal and since I'm running Toxic Spikes, I don't need to run Toxic on Mawile. Wishiwashi is the Water check, well i say Water check, but it can't touch Arctovish or Lapras at all which makes T-Spikes so important so you can stall them out. Silvally-Ground provides a needed electric immunitly, hazard control, and Parting Shot support for Gothitelle to set up easier and is just a great glue mon in general. Lastly is Drakloak which benefits greatly from Toxic Spikes support, boosting the power of Hex and acting as a spinblocker against teams that relies on Carkol to remove hazards. It can also deal with stuff like Pawniard with Will-O-Wisp if they try to Sucker Punch or you can take them out with Flamethrower if they're weakened enough.


Leafeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Synthesis
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off

Silvally-Water @ Water Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Def / 148 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Parting Shot
- Surf
- Thunderbolt

Mr. Mime @ Choice Specs
Ability: Filter
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Mystical Fire
- Healing Wish

Manectric @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Switcheroo

Grapploct @ Assault Vest
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Brutal Swing
- Sucker Punch
- Ice Punch

Stonjourner @ Life Orb
Ability: Power Spot
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Heat Crash


This team was in limbo a bit mainly due to Trapinch trapping and revenging most of the team, but since Arena Trap was recently banned, it feels right to post it now. Starting with the primary wincon being SD Leafeon which is great in general just for its speed tier and attack. Silvally-Water provides Parting Shot support for Leafeon and acts as the Arctovish response, packing Thunderbolt to deal with that menace. The choice items for Mr. Mime and Manectric can be interchanged, but I prefer this variation as scarf Mime doesn't outspeed Ninjask if it's Jolly and Manetric can also deal with Swoobat if they're NP over CM. AV Grapploct handles most special attackers: Manectric, Lapras, basically anything not named Noctowl. Lastly was Stonjourner to help out Leafeon a bit more with weakening Grass-types with Heat Crash and providing Stealth Rock support overall.

Also want to throw in one last set from Alpha, dw it's not another Grapploct set.



Silvally @ Throat Spray
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flame Charge
- Hyper Voice
- Surf
- Flamethrower

I got bored one day as was looking for other ways to utilize Throat Spray and came across Silvally which can act as a wincon all on it's own. Flame Charge is needed for the speed boost, but Hyper Voice is just as manditory not just for STAB but to also activate Throat Spray allowing Silvally to put major dents in weakened teams. Last 2 moves can be interchanged into whatever your team needs so go nuts. If we don't lose it/gets banned that is.
 

Specs

Getting in your own way
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
UUPL Champion
Given that we don't know how beta will be, gonna go over a core I think is and has been great and an underrated threat that I think has gotten better with the recent arena trap ban!

:sm/mawile: :sm/throh:

Phys def Mawile and Spdef Throh are very easy to throw (pretend I made a pun) on builds at the moment. Going over what they do individually:

Mawile has been (I think at least) the most viable mon in the entire tier. Good defensive options have been somewhat limited so having a rocker with great utility in Intimidate + Knock off and a good defensive typing has made it a staple in the meta. I find teams that elect for other rockers seem worse off without it. Some key things it checks include but aren't limited to: Ninjask, Persian, Leafeon, Liepard, Thievul, some Silvallys that opt for Flame Charge over Flamethrower, Arctovish once or twice depending on set, Musharna, and Beartic.

Throh has also been one of the most viable mons, and being a very good blanket check on the special side. In a meta filled with Eviolite and Heavy Duty Boots, Knock Off again is great utility. The set I've been using is Rest-Talk with Circle Throw and Knock, but Storm Throw is also a good option. All of those combined and with how fat Throh is, it is very tough to take down in the short term. Ik I've said this somewhere but defensive Throh sets don't always knock you out, it just doesn't allow you to kill it very easily and I think Circle Throw helps you achieve that more consistently. Going over some key things Throh checks: Bellossom, Glaceon once (which is pretty impressive), Lapras, Ludicolo (come in when rain isn't up), Manectric, Pawniard, Persian, Raichu, Roselia, Type:Null, Carkol, Stonjourner.

This meta has been really cool and I've been enjoying it a lot but, the amount of threats can be a bit overwhelming on paper when building and in practice when playing. So having a core like this that guarantees you a chance defensively vs most things has been great and reduces that strain. The core isn't unbreakable obviously. Stuff like Specs Noctowl, SD Silvally-Ground/Fire, Swoobat, ect. can get out of hand, luckily you have 4 other slots to cover for those (:

:sm/Ludicolo:

Also with Arena Trap gone and assuming not much about this mon changes because of drops, I think Ludicolo is something ppl should start running more. Priority in Fake out Persian and some others + Ninjask still are somewhat of a pain but, being able to open up a slot increases it's breaking potential a ton. Defensive switch ins with rain up are limited and you force out a good chunk of the meta with LO Hydro alone! Pairing it with a Knock Off user to get rid of Eviolite on Clef is also very useful.

Looking forward to beta and hoping to make the tier the best it can possibly be! Thanks for reading.
 

TJ

Banned deucer.
is the Smogon Tour Season 34 Championis a Past SPL Championis a Two-Time Past SCL Champion
hey everyone, with pu entering beta tomorrow i figured it would be a good time to share some of my favorite teams from alpha

:mawile: :lapras: :silvally: :shiinotic: :ninjask: :stonjourner:
Mawile @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Play Rough / Sucker Punch / Flamethrower
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock

Lapras @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Silvally-Ground @ Ground Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Multi-Attack
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Defog

Shiinotic @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Strength Sap
- Moonblast
- Endure / Leech Seed

Ninjask
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn / Leech Life
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Stonjourner @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Power Spot
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Heat Crash
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam

Offensive Mawile is an extremely terrifying wallbreaker right now, because even Pokemon who resist both of its stabs will either take a lot of damage or lose their items thanks to Knock Off. I opted for the offensive set with Intimidate and Stealth Rock because I wanted to lure Pokemon like Hattrem and Trapinch while still retaining enough defensive utility to check Ninjask and Persian. Sucker Punch and Flamethrower were some of the other options I played with but I found Knock Off to be the most useful on this team. Heavy Duty Boots specially defensive Lapras is a very good blanket check to Water- and Ice-types like opposing Lapras and Glaceon as well as just an all-around reliable check to scary special attackers like Nasty Plot Noctowl and Swoobat. Next, physically defensive Silvally Ground was added for the team's electric immunity, hazard control, and u-turn support. Defensive Silvally Ground also helped against steels like Pawniard and Klang as well as Silvally poison. 2xTheTap's Rocky Helmet + Endure Shiinotic was added here as my main Fighting/Ground/Grass resist + secondary Water/Electric check since Lapras is overwhelmed by rock-type coverage from Arctovish and Baculin. Rocky helmet + Endure also gives Shinnotic an extra turn of rocky helm/effect spore shenanigans while also stalling an extra turn of rain/sun/tr. From there Ninjask was added as the team's wincon and then stonjourner as another form of speed control + Fire resist.


:stufful: :mawile: :clefairy: :musharna: :mareanie: :vibrava:
Stufful @ Eviolite
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide
- Toxic
- Rest
- Hammer Arm

Mawile @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Heal Bell

Musharna @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Curse
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power

Mareanie @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes / Toxic
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover

Vibrava @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Defog
- Roost
- Toxic

I made this stall team a few days ago with lockjaw after I was intrigued by tlenit1's incredible Stufful set. Stufful is one of the only pokemon in the tier able to blanket check physical attackers like Pawniard, and Silvally. Mawile is the best rocker and is fairly standard on stall providing good bulk to stop attackers like Leafeon. Clefairy is the main special wall that absorbs status and provides Wish/ heal bell support to a lot of the team like Mawile, Stufful, and Musharna. Musharna is the wincon with curse + cm + store powered; it also counters a few specific pokemon like Throh. Spdef Mariene provides Toxic Spikes support, absorbs opposing Toxic Spikes and beats dangerous special attackers that Clefairy cant handle like specs Octillery. Vibrava is the teams volt switch immunity, hazard control, and ground/fire resist.

252 Atk Choice Band Silvally Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 85-102 (24.7 - 29.6%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Arctovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 85-102 (24.7 - 29.6%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Arctovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 129-153 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Ninjask Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 62-74 (18 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Ninjask Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 114-134 (33.1 - 38.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Leafeon Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 62-74 (18 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Leafeon Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 122-146 (35.4 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Pawniard Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 36-43 (10.4 - 12.5%) -- possible 8HKO
+2 252+ Atk Pawniard Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fluffy Stufful: 72-85 (20.9 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1087490321-z1crpwd31fyht3zyk5oizsjbss4it68pw - cm + curse + stored power mush in action

:arctovish: :silvally: :mawile: :throh: :beheeyem: :stonjourner:
Arctovish @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Icicle Crash
- Stone Edge
- Psychic Fangs

Silvally-Ground @ Ground Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Toxic
- Defog
- U-turn

Mawile @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Toxic

Throh (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Storm Throw
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab

Beheeyem @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Trick Room
- Recover

Stonjourner @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Power Spot
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Heat Crash
- Rock Blast


i built this team with Ktütverde a few weeks ago. Banded vish is pretty phenomenal given the lack of good water/ice checks in the tier. Spdef Silvally Ground provides hazard control, checks electrics like Manectric and Raichu, and can bring in vish safely on mons that it forces in like vibrava with u-turn. mawile provides sr support and checks potent threats like leafeon and ninjask. AV Throh is a glue mon that blanket checks special attackers like lapras and ludicolo, while still maintaining an offensive presence; the speed evs outspeed uninvested base 50s like mawile. Beheeyem is the fighting check and potential wincon with late game trick room since the team is pretty slow outside of scarf stonjourner.

here are a few more fun teams that i used throughout alpha that dont need too much explaining:

:swoobat: :pincurchin: :ninjask: :trapinch: :clefairy: :arctovish:
Swoobat @ Electric Seed
Ability: Simple
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Stored Power
- Substitute

Pincurchin @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Zing Zap
- Sucker Punch
- Memento

Ninjask @ Electric Seed
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leech Life
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
- Substitute

Trapinch @ Eviolite
Ability: Arena Trap
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- First Impression
- Rock Slide
- Toxic

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 150 Def / 106 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Encore

Arctovish @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Stone Edge
- Psychic Fangs
- Freeze-Dry

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1080583414-x2w7wymnicb71lbvra7cmo6223b6q6vpw
this team handed me a lot of free wins on ladder

:arctovish: :basculin: :roselia: :clefairy: :carkol: :pawniard:
Arctovish @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Icicle Crash
- Freeze-Dry
- Stone Edge

Basculin @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet
- Psychic Fangs
- Superpower

Roselia @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast

Carkol @ Eviolite
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp

Pawniard @ Eviolite
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

a really fun water spam centered around vish and basculin that I made with Taskr on like the first day of alpha lol

cool sets/mons that I encourage people to use more of in beta:
:sinistea:
Sinistea @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Giga Drain
- Shadow Ball
- Shell Smash

:gourgeist:
Gourgeist-Super @ Choice Band
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Trick
- Power Whip
- Shadow Sneak

:baltoy:
CLAYGOD JR (Baltoy) @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin

:stonjourner:
Stonjourner @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Power Spot
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Heat Crash
-Rock Polish

Stonjourner @ Choice Band
Ability: Power Spot
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Heat Crash
- Heavy Slam

:glaceon:
Glaceon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 252 HP / 248 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

:eiscue:
Eiscue @ Salac Berry
Ability: Ice Face
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Icicle Crash
- Substitute
- Reversal

:drakloak:
Drakloak @ Leftovers
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Disable

:Mr. Mime:
Mr. Mime @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Nasty Plot / Focus Blast
- Hypnosis

see you all in beta! ~TJ
 
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