Metagame SV Monotype Metagame Discussion [Indigo Disk]

[maroon]

Welcome to the Monotype metagame discussion thread for the Indigo Disk DLC!
Monotype on Showdown​

Monotype is a really simple concept; you build a team of six Pokemon sharing one common type and fight against teams with the same restriction. You are allowed to use Pokemon with dual-typing on a team represented by either type, but every other Pokemon must share at least one type with the dual-typed Pokemon. For example, you can use Grimmsnarl, a Dark- / Fairy-type Pokemon, on a Dark or Fairy team. If you choose Grimmsnarl, you can also use Roaring Moon (Past Paradox Salamence), a Dragon- / Dark-type Pokemon, and create a Dark team with the two of them, but you cannot use Noivern, a Flying / Dragon type Pokemon, on that team because it does not share a type with Grimmsnarl and Roaring Moon.

Using six Pokemon of the same type can lead to some interesting team archetypes, and it challenges teambuilders to make sure the common weaknesses a certain type of Pokemon share are covered as best as possible. This metagame allows for all kinds of Pokemon to be viable against top threats, so be imaginative. As you play, you'll find many unique threats that aren't common in the usage based tiers.

The Monotype metagame features builds from all playstyles—Offense, Balance, and Stall. The playstyle will often reflect the Pokemon available on that type. For instance, there are many strong offensive Fighting types, but the type lacks reliable defensive Pokemon. As such, a Stall Fighting-type team is hard to make, while Offensive Fighting is more likely to be viable. The best Monotype players build and play a wide variety of types, using teams that capitalize on the strengths of an individual type. Forcing your favorite type into an archetype that it will struggle to pull off is a good way to lose matches and get frustrated!

Tiering and Discussion
Monotype has its own tiering, which is based on the tiering philosophy. The metagame is led by a 9-man council, each with an equal say in tiering decisions.

You may find the current banlist in the Monotype entry on the Smogdex.

This thread is meant for discussion—not just requesting bans! That said, if you feel anything not on these banlists is too overpowered for the meta, this is the place to discuss it. All tiering discussion should be framed within the context of the Monotype Tiering Philosophy, which you can find below. Additionally, if you want to recommend a Pokemon for suspect testing, include some evidence and reasoning why you think said Pokemon is broken. Just saying something like, "I think Kyurem-Black should be banned because it has base 170 Attack." is a post that will get deleted, and it won't get you taken seriously. Back up your claim with replays showing how the Pokemon is overpowered in practice. Tell us how it interacts against other types/playstyles, what checks and counters it, its role on the team type(s) where it's played (going back to the Kyurem-Black example, how does it play on Mono-Ice vs. Mono-Dragon?), and so on. If you need any advice or have any questions on things you think are broken but are unsure what the best way to post is, contact a member of the Monotype Council either through message or on Showdown in the Monotype room.

As a final thought, before you post, think about what you're saying and whether it adds anything to the conversation or sparks discussion. If not, add to it until it does. Let's make an effort to have fun while keeping a certain level of mature conversation!

Special note: This thread is for metagame discussion, not tiering philosophy discussion. If you would like to propose a policy change then please start a private message with the members of the Monotype council. If the council would like to field general discussion on the tiering philosophy then it will make a post requesting input from the community. In this thread, we encourage people to share their thoughts on elements that they think could be potentially unhealthy in order to help balance out the metagame.

Here is the list of new Pokemon being released with the DLC (8 New Pokemon):
Archaludon - Duraludon's Evolution
Type: Steel / Dragon
Base Stats: 90.105.130.125.65.85 (BST: 600)
Abilities: Stamina (1) | Sturdy (2) | Stalwart (H)

Moves

Level Up Moves:
- [00] Electro Shot
- [01] Leer
- [01] Metal Claw
- [06] Rock Smash
- [12] Hone Claws
- [18] Metal Sound
- [24] Breaking Swipe
- [30] Dragon Tail
- [36] Iron Defense
- [42] Focus Energy
- [48] Dragon Claw
- [54] Flash Cannon
- [60] Metal Burst
- [66] Hyper Beam
TM Learn:
- [TM001] Take Down
- [TM006] Scary Face
- [TM007] Protect
- [TM025] Facade
- [TM030] Snarl
- [TM031] Metal Claw
- [TM036] Rock Tomb
- [TM044] Dragon Tail
- [TM047] Endure
- [TM058] Brick Break
- [TM062] Foul Play
- [TM066] Body Slam
- [TM070] Sleep Talk
- [TM074] Reflect
- [TM075] Light Screen
- [TM078] Dragon Claw
- [TM082] Thunder Wave
- [TM085] Rest
- [TM086] Rock Slide
- [TM088] Swords Dance
- [TM089] Body Press
- [TM093] Flash Cannon
- [TM094] Dark Pulse
- [TM099] Iron Head
- [TM103] Substitute
- [TM104] Iron Defense
- [TM112] Aura Sphere
- [TM115] Dragon Pulse
- [TM116] Stealth Rock
- [TM121] Heavy Slam
- [TM126] Thunderbolt
- [TM149] Earthquake
- [TM150] Stone Edge
- [TM152] Giga Impact
- [TM156] Outrage
- [TM163] Hyper Beam
- [TM166] Thunder
- [TM168] Solar Beam
- [TM169] Draco Meteor
- [TM170] Steel Beam
- [TM171] Tera Blast
- [TM172] Roar
- [TM179] Smack Down
- [TM180] Gyro Ball
- [TM204] Double-Edge
- [TM220] Meteor Beam
- [TM222] Breaking Swipe
- [TM223] Metal Sound
- [TM225] Hard Press
- [TM226] Dragon Cheer

Hydrapple - Dipplin's Evolution
Type: Grass / Dragon
Base Stats: 106.80.110.120.80.44 (BST: 540)
Abilities: Supersweet Syrup (1) | Regenerator (2) | Sticky Hold (H)

Moves

Level Up Moves:
- [00] Fickle Beam
- [01] Withdraw
- [01] Sweet Scent
- [01] Recycle
- [01] Astonish
- [04] Dragon Tail
- [08] Growth
- [12] Dragon Breath
- [16] Protect
- [20] Bullet Seed
- [28] Syrup Bomb
- [32] Dragon Pulse
- [36] Recover
- [40] Energy Ball
- [44] Substitute
- [54] Power Whip
TM Learn:
- [TM001] Take Down
- [TM007] Protect
- [TM021] Pounce
- [TM025] Facade
- [TM033] Magical Leaf
- [TM044] Dragon Tail
- [TM047] Endure
- [TM049] Sunny Day
- [TM050] Rain Dance
- [TM056] Bullet Seed
- [TM066] Body Slam
- [TM070] Sleep Talk
- [TM071] Seed Bomb
- [TM074] Reflect
- [TM081] Grass Knot
- [TM085] Rest
- [TM089] Body Press
- [TM103] Substitute
- [TM111] Giga Drain
- [TM115] Dragon Pulse
- [TM119] Energy Ball
- [TM121] Heavy Slam
- [TM131] Pollen Puff
- [TM133] Earth Power
- [TM137] Grassy Terrain
- [TM140] Nasty Plot
- [TM142] Hydro Pump
- [TM149] Earthquake
- [TM152] Giga Impact
- [TM156] Outrage
- [TM159] Leaf Storm
- [TM163] Hyper Beam
- [TM168] Solar Beam
- [TM169] Draco Meteor
- [TM171] Tera Blast
- [TM180] Gyro Ball
- [TM182] Bug Bite
- [TM191] Uproar
- [TM194] Grassy Glide
- [TM204] Double-Edge
- [TM222] Breaking Swipe
- [TM224] Curse
- [TM226] Dragon Cheer
Reminder:
- Yawn
- Double Hit
- Infestation

Gouging Fire - Entei's Paradox
Type: Fire / Dragon
Base Stats: 105.115.121.65.93.91 (BST: 590)
Abilities: Protosynthesis (1) | Protosynthesis (2) | Protosynthesis (H)

Moves

Level Up Moves:
- [01] Stomp
- [01] Leer
- [01] Incinerate
- [01] Sunny Day
- [07] Fire Fang
- [14] Howl
- [21] Bite
- [28] Dragon Claw
- [35] Crush Claw
- [42] Morning Sun
- [49] Burning Bulwark
- [56] Dragon Rush
- [63] Fire Blast
- [70] Lava Plume
- [77] Outrage
- [84] Flare Blitz
- [91] Raging Fury
TM Learn:
- [TM001] Take Down
- [TM006] Scary Face
- [TM007] Protect
- [TM008] Fire Fang
- [TM009] Thunder Fang
- [TM024] Fire Spin
- [TM025] Facade
- [TM028] Bulldoze
- [TM030] Snarl
- [TM038] Flame Charge
- [TM044] Dragon Tail
- [TM047] Endure
- [TM049] Sunny Day
- [TM053] Smart Strike
- [TM063] Psychic Fangs
- [TM066] Body Slam
- [TM070] Sleep Talk
- [TM078] Dragon Claw
- [TM084] Stomping Tantrum
- [TM085] Rest
- [TM099] Iron Head
- [TM100] Dragon Dance
- [TM103] Substitute
- [TM108] Crunch
- [TM115] Dragon Pulse
- [TM118] Heat Wave
- [TM125] Flamethrower
- [TM134] Reversal
- [TM141] Fire Blast
- [TM149] Earthquake
- [TM150] Stone Edge
- [TM152] Giga Impact
- [TM156] Outrage
- [TM157] Overheat
- [TM163] Hyper Beam
- [TM165] Flare Blitz
- [TM169] Draco Meteor
- [TM171] Tera Blast
- [TM172] Roar
- [TM189] Heat Crash
- [TM193] Weather Ball
- [TM200] Scale Shot
- [TM204] Double-Edge
- [TM207] Temper Flare
- [TM215] Scorching Sands
- [TM222] Breaking Swipe
- [TM226] Dragon Cheer
Reminder:
- Double Kick
- Ancient Power
- Noble Roar

Raging Bolt - Raikou's Paradox
Type: Electric / Dragon
Base Stats: 125.73.91.137.89.75 (BST: 590)
Abilities: Protosynthesis (1) | Protosynthesis (2) | Protosynthesis (H)

Moves

Level Up Moves:
- [01] Twister
- [01] Sunny Day
- [01] Shock Wave
- [01] Stomp
- [07] Charge
- [14] Dragon Breath
- [21] Electric Terrain
- [28] Discharge
- [35] Dragon Tail
- [42] Calm Mind
- [49] Thunderclap
- [56] Dragon Hammer
- [63] Rising Voltage
- [70] Dragon Pulse
- [77] Zap Cannon
- [84] Body Press
- [91] Thunder
TM Learn:
- [TM001] Take Down
- [TM006] Scary Face
- [TM007] Protect
- [TM009] Thunder Fang
- [TM023] Charge Beam
- [TM025] Facade
- [TM030] Snarl
- [TM044] Dragon Tail
- [TM047] Endure
- [TM048] Volt Switch
- [TM049] Sunny Day
- [TM066] Body Slam
- [TM070] Sleep Talk
- [TM072] Electro Ball
- [TM082] Thunder Wave
- [TM084] Stomping Tantrum
- [TM085] Rest
- [TM087] Taunt
- [TM089] Body Press
- [TM096] Eerie Impulse
- [TM103] Substitute
- [TM108] Crunch
- [TM115] Dragon Pulse
- [TM117] Hyper Voice
- [TM121] Heavy Slam
- [TM126] Thunderbolt
- [TM129] Calm Mind
- [TM136] Electric Terrain
- [TM147] Wild Charge
- [TM149] Earthquake
- [TM152] Giga Impact
- [TM156] Outrage
- [TM163] Hyper Beam
- [TM166] Thunder
- [TM168] Solar Beam
- [TM169] Draco Meteor
- [TM171] Tera Blast
- [TM172] Roar
- [TM173] Charge
- [TM193] Weather Ball
- [TM204] Double-Edge
- [TM210] Supercell Slam
- [TM211] Electroweb
- [TM222] Breaking Swipe
- [TM226] Dragon Cheer
Reminder:
- Ancient Power

Iron Boulder - Terrakion's Paradox
Type: Rock / Psychic
Base Stats: 90.120.80.68.108.124 (BST: 590)
Abilities: Quark Drive (1) | Quark Drive (2) | Quark Drive (H)

Moves

Level Up Moves:
- [01] Horn Attack
- [01] Leer
- [01] Rock Throw
- [01] Electric Terrain
- [07] Quick Attack
- [14] Slash
- [21] Agility
- [28] Psycho Cut
- [35] Counter
- [42] Rock Tomb
- [49] Sacred Sword
- [56] Mighty Cleave
- [63] Swords Dance
- [70] Megahorn
- [77] Quick Guard
- [84] Stone Edge
- [91] Giga Impact
TM Learn:
- [TM001] Take Down
- [TM004] Agility
- [TM006] Scary Face
- [TM007] Protect
- [TM025] Facade
- [TM027] Aerial Ace
- [TM028] Bulldoze
- [TM036] Rock Tomb
- [TM047] Endure
- [TM051] Sandstorm
- [TM054] Psyshock
- [TM058] Brick Break
- [TM059] Zen Headbutt
- [TM065] Air Slash
- [TM066] Body Slam
- [TM070] Sleep Talk
- [TM076] Rock Blast
- [TM083] Poison Jab
- [TM085] Rest
- [TM087] Taunt
- [TM088] Swords Dance
- [TM099] Iron Head
- [TM103] Substitute
- [TM104] Iron Defense
- [TM105] X-Scissor
- [TM120] Psychic
- [TM136] Electric Terrain
- [TM147] Wild Charge
- [TM149] Earthquake
- [TM150] Stone Edge
- [TM152] Giga Impact
- [TM163] Hyper Beam
- [TM167] Close Combat
- [TM171] Tera Blast
- [TM190] Solar Blade
- [TM204] Double-Edge
- [TM220] Meteor Beam
- [TM221] Throat Chop

Iron Crown - Cobalion's Paradox
Type: Steel / Psychic
Base Stats: 90.72.100.122.108.98 (BST: 590)
Abilities: Quark Drive (1) | Quark Drive (2) | Quark Drive (H)

Moves

Level Up Moves:
- [01] Leer
- [01] Electric Terrain
- [01] Confusion
- [01] Metal Claw
- [07] Smart Strike
- [14] Slash
- [21] Iron Defense
- [28] Psyshock
- [35] Psycho Cut
- [42] Flash Cannon
- [49] Sacred Sword
- [56] Tachyon Cutter
- [63] Future Sight
- [70] Volt Switch
- [77] Quick Guard
- [84] Metal Burst
- [91] Hyper Beam
TM Learn:
- [TM001] Take Down
- [TM004] Agility
- [TM006] Scary Face
- [TM007] Protect
- [TM025] Facade
- [TM028] Bulldoze
- [TM031] Metal Claw
- [TM041] Stored Power
- [TM047] Endure
- [TM048] Volt Switch
- [TM053] Smart Strike
- [TM054] Psyshock
- [TM058] Brick Break
- [TM059] Zen Headbutt
- [TM065] Air Slash
- [TM066] Body Slam
- [TM070] Sleep Talk
- [TM085] Rest
- [TM088] Swords Dance
- [TM093] Flash Cannon
- [TM099] Iron Head
- [TM103] Substitute
- [TM104] Iron Defense
- [TM105] X-Scissor
- [TM120] Psychic
- [TM121] Heavy Slam
- [TM129] Calm Mind
- [TM136] Electric Terrain
- [TM152] Giga Impact
- [TM158] Focus Blast
- [TM163] Hyper Beam
- [TM170] Steel Beam
- [TM171] Tera Blast
- [TM178] Gravity
- [TM190] Solar Blade
- [TM204] Double-Edge
- [TM210] Supercell Slam
- [TM217] Future Sight
- [TM218] Expanding Force
- [TM223] Metal Sound
- [TM228] Psychic Noise

Terapagos
Type: Normal
Base Stats: 90.65.85.65.85.60 (BST: 450)
Abilities: Tera Shift (1) | Tera Shift (2) | Tera Shift (H)

Terapagos-1
Type: Normal
Base Stats: 95.95.110.105.110.85 (BST: 600)
Abilities: Tera Shift (1) | Tera Shift (2) | Tera Shift (H)


Terapagos-2
Type: Normal
Base Stats: 160.105.110.130.110.85 (BST: 700)
Abilities: Tera Shift (1) | Tera Shift (2) | Tera Shift (H)

Moves

Level Up Moves:
- [01] Withdraw
- [01] Tri Attack
- [01] Rapid Spin
- [10] Ancient Power
- [20] Headbutt
- [30] Protect
- [40] Earth Power
- [50] Heavy Slam
- [60] Tera Starstorm
- [70] Double-Edge
- [80] Rock Polish
- [90] Gyro Ball
TM Learn:
- [TM001] Take Down
- [TM007] Protect
- [TM011] Water Pulse
- [TM025] Facade
- [TM041] Stored Power
- [TM047] Endure
- [TM049] Sunny Day
- [TM050] Rain Dance
- [TM059] Zen Headbutt
- [TM066] Body Slam
- [TM070] Sleep Talk
- [TM079] Dazzling Gleam
- [TM085] Rest
- [TM086] Rock Slide
- [TM089] Body Press
- [TM093] Flash Cannon
- [TM094] Dark Pulse
- [TM099] Iron Head
- [TM101] Power Gem
- [TM103] Substitute
- [TM108] Crunch
- [TM112] Aura Sphere
- [TM115] Dragon Pulse
- [TM116] Stealth Rock
- [TM119] Energy Ball
- [TM121] Heavy Slam
- [TM123] Surf
- [TM124] Ice Spinner
- [TM125] Flamethrower
- [TM126] Thunderbolt
- [TM129] Calm Mind
- [TM133] Earth Power
- [TM135] Ice Beam
- [TM147] Wild Charge
- [TM149] Earthquake
- [TM150] Stone Edge
- [TM152] Giga Impact
- [TM162] Bug Buzz
- [TM163] Hyper Beam
- [TM165] Flare Blitz
- [TM166] Thunder
- [TM168] Solar Beam
- [TM172] Roar
- [TM175] Toxic
- [TM178] Gravity
- [TM180] Gyro Ball
- [TM189] Heat Crash
- [TM193] Weather Ball
- [TM204] Double-Edge
- [TM210] Supercell Slam
- [TM215] Scorching Sands
- [TM220] Meteor Beam

Pecharunt
Type: Poison / Ghost
Base Stats: 88.88.160.88.88.88 (BST: 600)
Abilities: Poison Puppeteer (1) | Poison Puppeteer (2) | Poison Puppeteer (H)

Moves

Level Up Moves:
- [01] Smog
- [01] Poison Gas
- [01] Memento
- [01] Astonish
- [08] Withdraw
- [16] Destiny Bond
- [24] Fake Tears
- [32] Parting Shot
- [40] Shadow Ball
- [48] Malignant Chain
- [56] Toxic
- [64] Nasty Plot
- [72] Recover
TM Learn:
- [TM003] Fake Tears
- [TM007] Protect
- [TM013] Acid Spray
- [TM029] Hex
- [TM042] Night Shade
- [TM045] Venoshock
- [TM047] Endure
- [TM062] Foul Play
- [TM070] Sleep Talk
- [TM085] Rest
- [TM092] Imprison
- [TM102] Gunk Shot
- [TM103] Substitute
- [TM114] Shadow Ball
- [TM140] Nasty Plot
- [TM148] Sludge Bomb
- [TM151] Phantom Force
- [TM171] Tera Blast
- [TM175] Toxic
- [TM177] Spite
- [TM198] Poltergeist
- [TM214] Sludge Wave
- [TM224] Curse
Reminder:
- Defense Curl
- Rollout
- Mean Look

Moreover, this is the list of previous Pokemon returning in the DLC:

​

Static Legendary Encounters:

​

As described in the tiering information, this DLC is by far one of the most impactful mid-generation change as it reintroduces many previous metagame staples to the tier, thus shaking up Monotype's metagame by a ton. In this thread, we encourage people to share their thoughts on elements that they think could be potentially unhealthy in order to help balance out the metagame.

Please refrain from posting one-liners, those comments will be deleted!

 

[DragonPhoenix333]

Gouging Fire looks like it'll be pretty good for mono fire ngl, fire type that abuses Torkoal's sun pretty well with ddance, morning sun, looks pretty strong imo

 

[Spam Goose]

Since I'm pretty invested into mono psychic atm, ill do my takes on those:

Iron Boulder:
is such a boon for Psychic and Rock Mono type, great coverage and stats to boot, can be an excellent scarfer or bander (even AV looks promising) and brings coverage both desperately need! Definitely makes rock more viable now and psychic gets the fast physical attacker it wants that doesn't have a 4x weakness to u-turn lol

Iron Crown:
might have promise too for psychic as a 'crit me not' sweeper or just regular sweeper, given it has agility, SD, calm mind and iron defense, as well as stored power! its bulk too fits in a good spot to be a nice response to many things, and has a great speed stat to boot.

Latios:
It will yield great results, great coverage, amazing sp atk and speed, and can take special hits decently as well. think it will have a high place in psychic due to how well its done in the past

Latias:
I think will be a worse Latios in a lot of cases, but can attempt to be a special wall (though hoopa unbound exists)

Necrozma:
only use i can really see is physically defensive iron defense sets, especially because of prism armor making it a stopgap to dark, most notably CP and kingambit. its coverage is superb, which might give it a niche because of that and having the ability to live hits because of prism armor.

Lugia:
NGL i'd like to see it tested for monotype since I think it would be a big boon to mono psychic and mono flying, especially since it gives them both a wall that helps with their biggest weaknesses. Having recovery moves pp nerfed also imo won't make it as hard to deal with.

 

[TheWyvernKing]

Once again, we are reminded of our hubris. What fools we've ourselves out to be. These next few days you will find yourself once again asking if there is a god. If there is a plan, or if Game Freak really just throws out base 124 speed stats at random and laugh at us mortals for trying to make sense of it. If this is in fact the reign of Fire and Dragon, and if we must live our lives knowing that a Dark with Pao and Meow and Greninja will never just autowin the dragon matchup ever again. Just now, I saw one of monotypes finest mushamu refer to Sinistcha as Sinisgyatt, and it was then that I knew there is no making sense of it. Ground will lose to Fire, and Water will lose to Fire, and Dragon will lose to Fire, and for whatever reason a C Tier Psychic type will be one of 3 anti meta with a winning matchup against both.

Welcome to the new meta everyone, be sure to explore the chaos, to thrive in it. Try that Shed Tail Sceptile although grass is for sure mid at best. Put that bulky Dragon together cause somehow it seems more than possible now.

Anyhow, Pecharunt seems pretty hard to fit on both Poison and Ghost.
Iron Crown seems pretty hard to fit also, basically Rachi but with Volt Switch, and a pretty lacklustr special movepool with Psychic Noise I guess being something. The lack of stealth rocks and utility makes it seem a bit worse for role compression, and it seems to essentially just fight for a spot.
Ragin Bolt is too slow. On paper it feels incredibly awkward, and doesn't seem to offer much to Dragon while also wanting Shed support. On Elec it doesn't reach a speed tier that would make it worth enough either, and the lack of recovery doesn't help. I'd be more inclined to use it if Elec had defog on zap or rotom but instead it's hard to make a viable 6 that fills every role and Bolt doesn't help much.
Iron Boulder is probs one of the best mons to look at for what's new. Psy right now seems like a kinda ok anti meta - though super matchup fish. You autolose the ghost/dark pretty much, but with a seemingly solid dragon and fire. This is another one of those mons made by a 12 year old, they gave it a 124 speed stat, it also has a reliable rock move which is crazy. I imagine this alongside NP Deoxys and healing wish would break fly pretty hard. On Rock it outspeeds just about all of fighting with a scarf and hits super effective, I imagine the main answers there are Zamazenta, Iron Hands, and the odd Scrafty.
Gouging Fire is the mon that shakes the meta the most. Protosynthesis + Choice on Fire and bam you're able to beat dragon with fire, this shouldn't be happening. Dragon Dance is crazy on it as well, and with it's solid bulk it has more than enough opportunity to get set up in most matches. It also allows Dragon to have a pretty reliable defensive core for it's old threats. Special Defensive Gouging Fire can take on Iron Valiant which Hoodra struggles with, physically defensive lives 2 from banded Pao and isn't weak to Sacred Sword, all the while it has reliable recovery in Morning Sun. Essentially you can create a pretty solid backbone on dragon with Hoodra + Gouging Fire or Gouging Fire + Archaludon, not to mention Dragon has ground immunes now in Latias/Latios or reliable resist in Regenerator Hydrapple.
Hydrapple I think could have a niche, but it's terrible speed stat makes it hard to really see potential in the lil guy. It has Fickle Beam, which would be one of the most uncompetitive moves in the game if it was on an actually fast pokemon. Solid moves in Earth Power. Amazing bulk with Recover + Regenerator. I don't see how much it can really work with the types it's on though, especially since it seems a bit of a momentum drain. I think if someone figures out stall Dragon or a really bulky dragon build I could see potential there for Regenerator + the Ground resist, but that's kind of the end of it.
Archaludon has potential, amazing physical bulk alongside Stamina makes it a reliable answer to some threats to dragon such as Gouging Fire and Meowscarada, and it has utility in Rocks support. It seems more of a secondary mon to fit on specific builds though that likely is outclassed the majority of the time.

I don't think anything should be unbanned really, someone said booster energy so like sure we can try it ig. Gouging Fire is the most obvious Quickban to me, which is kind of sad because of the awesome utility it gave drag + way it helps fire out. That being said, this bulk with Protosynthesis, Dragon Dance, and Morning Sun essentially means it can fill multiple very threatening roles on a team. Some of the problems with it are more evident. Surely this 6-0s multiple types as a setup sweeper.

is coming back, I 100% see this as a quickban mon. 2 weeks maximum. The tier right now is super HO and as a late game cleaner this will be insane. It'll have the same threatening power as always, to basically be impossible to answer for types like Grass, Bug, and Steel, probs sweeps other shit too.

Skarmory, as pointed out by Isza the other day, allows Steel to be a very potent spike stack type alongside gholdengo. Which I imagine will make everyone want to kill Gholdengo sooner or later.

We get some other cool adds or changes. As I pointed out Gren has Sludge Wave so it can OHKO Pon more reliably now. Sceptile has Shed Tail, though that seems more a gimmick on a c tier type. Triple Axel is on Meow and Weavile. Swampert is here and gets Knock. I'll add more later when I see where the discussion goes.

Since I'm pretty invested into mono psychic atm, ill do my takes on those:

Iron Boulder:
is such a boon for Psychic and Rock Mono type, great coverage and stats to boot, can be an excellent scarfer or bander (even AV looks promising) and brings coverage both desperately need! Definitely makes rock more viable now and psychic gets the fast physical attacker it wants that doesn't have a 4x weakness to u-turn lol

Iron Crown:
might have promise too for psychic as a 'crit me not' sweeper or just regular sweeper, given it has agility, SD, calm mind and iron defense, as well as stored power! its bulk too fits in a good spot to be a nice response to many things, and has a great speed stat to boot.

Latios:
It will yield great results, great coverage, amazing sp atk and speed, and can take special hits decently as well. think it will have a high place in psychic due to how well its done in the past

Latias:
I think will be a worse Latios in a lot of cases, but can attempt to be a special wall (though hoopa unbound exists)

Necrozma:
only use i can really see is physically defensive iron defense sets, especially because of prism armor making it a stopgap to dark, most notably CP and kingambit. its coverage is superb, which might give it a niche because of that and having the ability to live hits because of prism armor.

Lugia:
NGL i'd like to see it tested for monotype since I think it would be a big boon to mono psychic and mono flying, especially since it gives them both a wall that helps with their biggest weaknesses

I'm sorry, I think there's silliness here. Lugia is cracked, and maybe Flying takes a small hit with the new mons but sir - Flying is ALWAYS a top type. Prior to DLC2 it had functional stall, not to mention the more common balance with crazy defensive cores. Lugia is a top tier wall in Ubers, and held that status before it even had Multiscale. I mean this is a mon that stalls Primal Groudon.

I'll also point out that Latias (and hoopa Unbound as well) is not a special wall. The main reason to use Latias would be it's access to Healing Wish. There's always competition between Latias and Latios, and generally speaking it comes down to if you want the more immediate power of Latios, or if the support from Healing Wish would benefit your team more.


Gonna add, Rock and Psy both fall into a weird area right now of super matchup fish Anti Meta from what I can tell. Maybe Rock isn't going to be as reliable as I imagine vs. some types in reality, but Psy especially I see as having some solid mus. vs types like Flying, Fire, Dragon (espathra go brrr, Deoxys S Ice beam go brrrr, Scarf Lati go brrrrr, + your fairy and steel), as well as fighting. Downside, you lose on preview to other super strong types like Dark and Ghost

 

[Spam Goose]

about things that can be unhealthy, Gouging Fire standouts the most to me, in Mono fire having massive damage that only non resists can switch into its flare blitz, and its massive coverage making a lot of switches not reliable either. Having protosynthesis active as well makes it extremely hard for anything to switch period. not mentioning the fact with mono fire already having ogerpon, Gouging Fire having DDance as well making a scary cleaner too if not choiced

 

[AV Cosmoem]

Grass still sucks and will suck forever because no ferro. Here are my thoughts on a few new mons

Whimsicott is good but this mon is powercrept in stats since 116 speed isnt the fastest ever anymore and the rest is terrible. Also it doesn't get defog which really is a bitch because of how bad hazard removal is on grass. Fairy type is great because of how annoying dragon/bug/dark mu can be, but every one of those types has an S-tier that deals with it (h-goo/volc/gambit) and others below that can check/counter as well with alomuk on dark, scizor/forretress on bug, and dura/archaludon for dragon, so it doesn't really do that much for those matchups in the end. It's still a nice mon for grass though because fairy type is still really good, and it has good utility stuff like encore, tailwind, and switcheroo. Also you can run specs since it has good moves for it: psychic/shadow ball for coverage, u-turn for pivot, and switcheroo for disruption

Virizion's speed tier has been powercrept a little but it has a really strong offensive profile. Sacred sword lets it take on defense boosters like idef corvi/skarm and curse alomuk. It doesn't suffer from the accuracy issue like h-lilli and it's a lot bulkier, especially on the special side. It has some nice coverage as well, like zhb for poison and stone edge for fire/flying. Unfortunately its entire moveset is resisted by gholdengo lol. Also you need to run sd + trailblaze to boost speed unlike h-lilli. However it looks pretty consistent so I see it as a strong option

Neat mon. Makes water and ground free wins since not even pex can deal with leaf storm well, unless they have sap sipper azu lol. Having a special attacker is nice in general because of how physically oriented this type is. Unfortunately he lost defog as well. Also zero coverage due to loss of hp fire means that its pretty dead weight in the bad matchups. I can't see him being too popular because all he does is make your winning matchups easier

I guess this guy gets shed tail. Rest of his moveset sucks, unless you would like to "abuse" his attack stat of 85? Perhaps it can work because shed tail is broken, but he's even more obvious than cyclizar

EDIT: She got triple axel which is a pretty neat move. I don't think you can easily justify it over play rough though because all you hit is gliscor and staraptor

In conclusion, all of our bad matchups got buffed and we didn't so go play those instead

 

[TheWyvernKing]

I guess this guy gets shed tail. Rest of his moveset sucks, unless you would like to "abuse" his attack stat of 85? Perhaps it can work because shed tail is broken, but he's even more obvious than cyclizar

In conclusion, all of our bad matchups got buffed and we didn't so go play those instead

Sceptile got Vacuum wave I think but that's not changing much

 

[Spam Goose]

I'm sorry, I think there's silliness here. Lugia is cracked, and maybe Flying takes a small hit with the new mons but sir - Flying is ALWAYS a top type. Prior to DLC2 it had functional stall, not to mention the more common balance with crazy defensive cores. Lugia is a top tier wall in Ubers, and held that status before it even had Multiscale. I mean this is a mon that stalls Primal Groudon.

I'll also point out that Latias (and hoopa Unbound as well) is not a special wall. The main reason to use Latias would be it's access to Healing Wish. There's always competition between Latias and Latios, and generally speaking it comes down to if you want the more immediate power of Latios, or if the support from Healing Wish would benefit your team more.


Gonna add, Rock and Psy both fall into a weird area right now of super matchup fish Anti Meta from what I can tell. Maybe Rock isn't going to be as reliable as I imagine vs. some types in reality, but Psy especially I see as having some solid mus. vs types like Flying, Fire, Dragon (espathra go brrr, Deoxys S Ice beam go brrrr, Scarf Lati go brrrrr, + your fairy and steel), as well as fighting. Downside, you lose on preview to other super strong types like Dark and Ghost

I havent dealt with flying much but what with you said and others, i can agree it would make flying way too strong.
wall was probably the wrong word for hoopa and latias, but they are great at taking special hits better than most (usually use AV hoopa-U) and i think latias would fall under a similar case, though healing wish is definitely a great utility move for sure.

On the last part, I think Iron Boulder gives one of the best options psychic is going to have against dark, especially with its coverage (given I think Iron Boulder gives a lot of greater matchups for psychic for the same coverage reasons). Gallade getting upper hand too gives more options for psychic to beat things like chien pao and kingambit sucker punch

 

[Pengairxan]

Surprising no one, Poison opinions from me.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Tentacruel kept knock off and rapid spin and gained Flip turn so that is neat? Probably better for Rain Water as an offensive pivot to help deal with Toxic Spikes and Grass still. But hey, it can probably find a niche on Poison if its lucky.
Pecharunt doesn't seem to really find a slot on Poison. Like we already have Toxapex, Amoonguss, and Weezing for physical walls and this doesn't really solve anything they wouldn't . Offensive wise, Gengar will always have it beat out since it has amazing coverage and the better special attack and speed stats and while not as bulky Pecharunt isn't really surviving anything Gengar wouldn't on the special side and while it does better physical. Once again, you have three already amazing physical Poison walls.
Okidogi will continue to remain as the best of the loyal three and this thing might be worse than Fez on Poison because at least Fez has the funny anti Lando killer set.
Also Venusaur and Vileplume came back but unless you want Knock off/EQ/Leech seed or Moonblast with slightly better special attack, Amoonguss is still staying the best.
So yeah Poison got nothing and instead we gotta deal with Psychic buff, some annoying Noise and paying for Alolan Muk's overtime (We will get you that vacation soon my guy.)

 

[Neko]

Notable returning mons

lost Defog, but as reiterated in the previous thread, Spikestack and the ability to have a physdef bird and an spdef steel bird is amazing.

Sand is back, though being outsped by Scarf Meowscarada if using an Adamant natute sort of is sad.

Provides Rapid Spin, a way to deter Ogerpons from just Horn Leeching Water Teams. Is nice, but Toxapex would still be better.

Got Vacuum Wave and Pain Split. Would be a great option on both of its types due to its >328 Speed.

Got Knock off, has Flip Turn, and didnt get Spikes (totally fine because sets it instead). Would be the go to Ground type for rain teams.

Provides grass teams with a way to deter setup, though its not safe against Chien-Pao, so...

Provides dragon teams with a fast Fighting resist + Ground immune, while is a bolt-beamer thats fast for Psychic teams. It did lose defog, but Flip turn would be great on Choiced sets. Psychic noise is also a notable pickup, making it slightly harder to scout by Galarian Slowking.

/ Retained Scald and Calm Mind, you know the drill.

Gained Shed Tail. Its great on paper, but might not be as practical in practice. Worth noting that Healing Wish is available on Hisuian Lilligant though..

Lost Roost. Is probably outclassed by Baxcalibur due to this. Sad. Specs is still a thing, but its a bit slow.

Bug + Webs Water stonks up.

Ghost gets their good entry hazard setter.

Hehe. Gets Psychic noise too

Has powercreep made it balanced? Maybe?

Its the guy that eats Grass Knot + Tbolt + Zapdos for breakfast. Yay....and kept scald too, unlike the Water/Grounds

Rock Shell Smash go brr.

got Meteor beam, allowing it to forgo Nasty Plot and just go brr (now with Poltergeist protection!)

gains Pain Split so that you can set more(!!) entry hazards and spin more often

Gets pain split back.

High base HP makes pain split an odd choice, but is still a choice.

gets Sludge Wave for Ogerpons.

/ arent returning mons, but them getting Triple Axel is notable. A set such as SD/Aqua Step/Close Combat/Triple Axel might prove more threatening than what Urshifu-R has been, especially due to the duck getting Moxie

On the new mons:

Raging Bolt is....ok. Base 75 speed lets it outpace most walls and do bad stuff to them, has Calm Mind and Electric Sucker Punch to compensate. Choiced Sets (even Scarf, outspeeds Pao/FM) have merit.

CM

Raging Bolt @ Leftovers
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 Spe OR 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Discharge
- Dragon Pulse
- Substitute / Thunderclap

This given EV spread lets it outspeed up to Adamant Azumarill and start Calm Minding up. Notably, its substitute doesnt break to Alolan Muk's Knock Off and attacks at around that strength.

With a Choice Specs set, it provides great calcs:

yea

252+ SpA Choice Specs Raikou Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 248+ SpD Gliscor: 315-372 (89.4 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raikou Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 208+ SpD Articuno: 252-296 (65.7 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raikou Thunderclap vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Greninja: 518-612 (181.7 - 214.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raikou Chien-Pao vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Chien-Pao: 279-328 (92.6 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 356-422 (91 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
(You can invest a little to live this)

This is something Gliscor should probably creep for. If Gliscor doesnt want to come in, Articuno gets chipped hard (~65%) from a Volt Switch. The moveset for Choice Specs would be Volt Switch/Thunderbolt/Draco Meteor/Thunderclap. Modest is best, Timid has use if you want to outspeed and bonk mamoswine.

Gouging Fire threatens to put Hisuian Goodra out of the job for Dragon teams, due to its immense bulk, access to recovery, and ability to use multiple sets (defensive sets with its Burning Bulwark, offensive Dragon Dance, bulky Dragon Dance, etc.). Also, its another guy that makes 101 HP subs, nice. Take note your Physical Attacking Fire moves are Flare Blitz, Raging Fury, and Temper Flare, so expect a bit of recoil though.

calcs

+2 252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Entei: 297-351 (83.6 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 255-300 (71.8 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Bulky sets:
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Entei: 166-196 (40 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I strongly suggest to creep Adamant Mamoswine for "Defensive" sets however.

Bulky

Gouging Fire @ Heavy-Duty Boots
EVs: 252 HP / 88 SpD / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake / Dragon Claw
- Morning Sun
- Burning Bulwark

Dragon Dance

Gouging Fire @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Loaded Dice
EVs: 16 HP / 240 Atk / 252 Spe OR 88 HP / 168 Atk / 252 Spe (SPE PROTO)
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Scale Shot / Outrage / Morning Sun

Honestly, its bulk is worrisome and can push it to broken tier, but most moves that kill Fire or Dragon are non-contact, but a lot of its strength rely on its ability to live random hits, which the Dragon Dance set really appreciates.

NP

Appletun @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 192 HP / 252 SpA / 64 Spe or 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Earth Power
- Twin Beam
- Recover

Notes: Outspeeds Alolan Muk. 192 Spe outspeeds Corviknight.
Twin Beam is just insane if you get the 160 BP proc, allowing it to do some silly calcs like OHKO Physdef Corv or Spdef Muk-A at +2 with minimal chip. Its a bulky-ish Poison breaker that Grass doesnt really need, Dragon has better toys to play with over this.

Archaludon feels underwhelming on paper due to its inability to withstand Chien-Pao's assaults (unlike Gouging Fire) due to Sacred Sword bypassing stamina. However, the increased SpD and Def actually matters, allowing it to survive something like Flutter Mane's Moonblast or Choice Specs Dragapult's Draco Meteor. Also, Stealth Rocks. Choice Scarf isnt recommended as its slower than Baxcalibur at +1, but it survives Chien-Pao's Ice Shard anytime and Hard Presses (Steel-type Physical Water Spout) Fairies to dead. Iron Defense could be cool in combination with Stamina, but I don't really see it taking lives. Oh, and Stamina procs every time DDarts hit, keeping you safe against Dragapult.

Defensive

Archaludon @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 104 HP / 188 SpD / 216 Spe
Impish / Bold Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Iron Defense / Draco Meteor / Foul Play ?
- Body Press / Draco Meteor
- Stealth Rock

Outspeeds Mamoswine, survives every type of Dragapult, and doesn't get OHKO'ed by Specs Flutter Mane or Band Chien-Pao. Can consider using Smack Down + Earthquake, Thunderbolt, or the like to make Stealth Rocks stay against Flying teams.

Iron Boulder does not get Stealth Rock, however it gets Swords Dance and a fully accurate Rock move. It serves as a funny Poison breaker/Alolan Muk/Corviknight killer for Poison teams, filling the void Victini left.

Swords Dance

Iron Boulder @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Mighty Cleave
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt / Close Combat

The calcs arent too shabby either:

Calcs

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 265-313 (66.2 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Iron Boulder Mighty Cleave vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 316-372 (89.7 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Iron Boulder Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 286-338 (94.3 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

It can use Choice Scarf, as its able to OHKO Choice Scarf Meowscarada and normal Chien-Pao with Close Combat, almost OHKO Flutter Mane with Mighty Cleave (or use Iron Head), and deal with boosted Ogerpons. Choice Band is also plausible, due to its speedtier being ok for most part. Its middling Physical bulk leaves it open to getting OHKO'ed by Kingambit however.

Choice Scarf

Iron Boulder @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Mighty Cleave
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt / Iron Head

This guy. You know. He's not quite foolproof, but he's a great check to Gliscor for Poison teams. The lack of coverage hurts it, as well as its inability to Poison (and hax) Poison types, but take note that its bulk is extremely good so its a decent spinblocker. If it had Will-o-Wisp, it would be better though.

Nasty Plot

Pecharunt @ Black Sludge
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Recover / Malignant Chain
- Shadow Ball / Hex
- Mean Look / Malignant Chain

32 Spe outspeeds up to Jolly Azumarill. Mean Look is a decent move on it due to its ability to lure and remove walls like Clodsire or Toxapex who think they can take it on. You can spam Malignant Chain instead and laugh as you confuse those ground types that try to kill the Peach. Foul Play may have a niche as its not OHKO'ed by Baxcalibur at +2, but perhaps this would be on a different set.

Defensive Calcs

0 Atk Clodsire Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Pecharunt: 90-108 (23.6 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Pecharunt: 102-120 (26.8 - 31.5%) -- 16.4% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Pecharunt: 108-128 (28.4 - 33.6%) -- 94.3% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Will do the rest later, but the new Mons feels good enough to be used or explored at least. I hope we all enjoy DLC2 >:3

 

[AV Cosmoem]

Sceptile got Vacuum wave I think but that's not changing much

252 SpA Sceptile Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chien-Pao: 216-256 (71.7 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Sceptile Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chien-Pao: 172-204 (57.1 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Vacuum wave is too weak. Of course the real use for sceptile is as follows:

Rillaboom @ Heat Rock
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunny Day
- U-turn

Sceptile @ Grassy Seed
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Solar Blade
- Acrobatics
- Thunder Punch

 

[Garry2Scary]

I think you could be able to run pecharunt on ghost with moderate success. A defensive pivot that gets rid of toxic spikes is pretty nice for ghost making it easier to get flutter mane / spectrier / ceruledge in without sacking something. Spectrier in particular since stat drops from parting shot will allow it to set up easier. It also helps a lot with absorbing knock off and other physical dark moves because ghost has been seriously struggling in this department.

Pecharunt @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Rocky Helmet / Colbur Berry
Ability: Poison Puppeteer
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Parting Shot
- Malignant Chain
- Recover
- Filler

Since it has 0 coverage the last spot ends up to be decently flexible. Destiny bond, toxic, poltergiest, foul play and spite all have their uses.

Calcs

252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt: 170-204 (44.7 - 53.6%) -- 35.2% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt: 240-284 (63.1 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Meowscarada Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt: 146-174 (38.4 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Arcanine-Hisui Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt: 117-138 (30.7 - 36.3%) -- 52.2% chance to 3HKO

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt: 108-128 (28.4 - 33.6%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO

 

[Dragapult]

Think Gouging Fire carries some utility for Fire teams as the strongest Sun breaker we've seen yet. Just some random calcs against some shitty defensive spreads:

252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire in Sun: 231-272 (58.6 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ting-Lu in Sun: 477-562 (92.8 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clodsire: 463-546 (99.7 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-Wash in Sun: 204-241 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Raging Fury vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Sun: 154-182 (50.8 - 60%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Raging Fury under Sun does more damage vs. the likes of Quagsire and Toxapex than does Outrage. For context, it's a stronger damage output than Banded Dracovish clicking Fishious Rend against slower mons.

Throw in elite coverage (EdgeQuake is all it needs, if even) + Scale Shot, DD, Flame Charge, and an elite typing and we're looking at one of the strongest new releases Monotype has seen in a long time.

The obvious cost of running this as a Band breaker is that you'd be running a Rocks weak mon that either blows itself up (Flare Blitz) or locks you in/gets easily revenge killed (Raging Fury) but I can easily see Band becoming a key tool for Fire teams in the event of a meta slowdown.

Who are we kidding this shit is gone

 

[TheRealBigC]

Lugia:
NGL i'd like to see it tested for monotype since I think it would be a big boon to mono psychic and mono flying, especially since it gives them both a wall that helps with their biggest weaknesses. Having recovery moves pp nerfed also imo won't make it as hard to deal with.

Lugia is far too bulky and versatile and should never be tested in Mono; being bad in Ubers doesn't make you balanced in a roughly OU level tier. It would be broken even on Psychic but giving Flying a wall of this caliber would break the game and completely centralize the meta; good luck getting past Lugia + Glisc + Corv/Skarm

 

[Fraolain]

It's finally time monotype gamers... 5 protosynthesis dragon is legal..


INTERESTING NEW MONS: (and my thoughts on them)

Gourging Fire

Surely the highlight of this DLC, this looks insane as of now. The mon not only patch off multiple of dragon's, namely by giving it a sustanaible and threatening answer to ice and fairy types, but also gives fire a new water neutrality (as if one wasn't enough already...) and their first protosynthesis abuser. With such a good bulk, 91 speed is more than enough to rock dd sets confortably (outspeeding scarf flutter at +2). Expecting a lot from past Entei, and I think it's the one that come the closest to being unhealthy overall.

Raging Bolt

A cool mon, very high spa and good bulk, I can already see the CM 3 artack set and Iits going to be extremely strong into HO. I wonder how it will compete for its slot with dragon's plethora of new and returning strong mons, but will for sure be a force very hard to stop without a proper elec resist to threaten it out.

Iron Boulder

Kind of...disappointing. It has a weird speed tier (faster than meowscarada, slower than weavile), okay attack, solid bulk but it's typing is bad. We're not gonna act like rock is or will ever be relevant in this gen, however, It can at least serve a good niche in psychic to check fire, whether as band, scarf, SD (or even agility WP)

Iron Crown

Similarly to its rock counterpart, I'm dissapointed. I don't think it's straight out bad, but it has to compete with jirachi to fit in a team. I don't think you really have a reason to play it instead of jirachi in psychic, which is bulkier and has a better movepool. In steel it could be slightly better in some scenarios, since as of now we still don't know whether or not jirachi will get access to psychic noise (more on that move in the moves section of this post)

Archaludon

Now this mon I like a lot. Steel/dragon is a strong defensive typing and stamina is a very underrated ability, especially on a mon with body press and good spa that makes switching into it tricky. It can hard counter all the icicle spears, scale shot and triple axel bs that dragon is so afraid of. Only problem is obviously the competition it faces with goodra as a steel stype, but I'm sure it's going to be a viable option in the type.

Pecharunt

The goofiest stat spread of any pokemon fr. This intrigued me so much I had to run some calc:

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 138-164 (43.5 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 138-164 (36.3 - 43.1%) -- 97.7% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gengar: 108-128 (28.4 - 33.6%) -- 94.3% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Gengar Hex (130 BP) vs. 244 HP / 204+ SpD Gliscor: 115-136 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 91.8% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal

252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gengar: 147-174 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

0 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gengar: 140-168 (36.8 - 44.2%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

I guess it's not completely terrible, it can somewhat hold on against non SD gliscor (although it should be reminded that if you run full def you will always be slower). It can spinblock in poison and pivot with parting shot but that's about everything. I'm doubtful a nasty plot set would perform well with such low stats and lack of any kind of coverage. (It's ability is mad annoying however)

Hydrapple

Might be interesting as AV in grass and that's it. We don't know the probability of its move doubling in power, and depending on that it might be stronger than we think, but being stuck in grass as it brings nothing to dragon is a shame.

INTERESTING RETURNING MONS: (and my thoughts on them)

KYUREM

I didn't think I could ever be happy seeing that a mon lost a move from dexit, kyurem made it happen. No roost makes it so regular kyurem will commonly be choiced. I do still think specs is very strong, but is running it over bax actually worth it ?

Lati@s

They are back, but lost defog but gained psychic noise. They've always been strong staple in monotype over the generations, and I don't think it's going to drastically change this gen, but whithout defog I'm unsure if it's really worth it to run them in dragon, but they will still be solid mons in psychic

Blaziken

Will need to see it in action but I doubt it's very healthy this gen too

Excadrill

Outclassed by treads in steel, but ground sand might be back, and could possibly shake up ground in terms of versatility in the type itself

Deoxys (speed and defense)

I think both should be free, but Speed not for a long time. I believe Speed might be too strong overall, just being able to pick which type to 6-0 is super strong, but psychic isn't in it's best shape so it might be fine ? (unlikely). Defense I'm a bit mixed about, shit type, weak ability, lost toxic but still has an amazing defensive movepool (sr, spikes, koff, twave, taunt) and some solid set up sets, to be watched.

INTERESTING NEW MOVES: (and my thoughts on them)

Psychic Noise

Highlight move of this dlc imo, it looks insane. 75BP 100 Ac Removing healing from any means is a HUGE deal for bulkier types such as flying or water (will even remove healing from gliscor's poison heal) A lot of psychic types seems to get it, now the question is whether or not they all can take the drawback of having to use a weaker move, but I'm sure mons like the slowtwins, if they do get it could make it work decently.

That's it, just psychic noise, there's supercharged cell and the new fire move too but just a good elec physical stab (only took 27 years) and a decent fire coverage for some mons.

Conclusion:
Overall, lots of nice buffs to types that are not flying. Dragon is very strong but I doubt you need me to tell you that. After the stronger stuffs gets banned I think we'll have a much better type diversity than before dlc 1, and possibly more than SS, but it might just be the hype speaking for me.

 

[TheRealBigC]

 

[Dead by Daylight]

No roost makes it so regular kyurem will commonly be choiced. I do still think specs is very strong, but is running it over bax actually worth it ?

 

[woodgoldtwo]

Archaludon feels underwhelming on paper due to its inability to withstand Chien-Pao's assaults (unlike Gouging Fire) due to Sacred Sword bypassing stamina. However, the increased SpD and Def actually matters, allowing it to survive something like Flutter Mane's Moonblast or Choice Specs Dragapult's Draco Meteor. Also, Stealth Rocks. Choice Scarf isnt recommended as its slower than Baxcalibur at +1, but it survives Chien-Pao's Ice Shard anytime and Hard Presses (Steel-type Physical Water Spout) Fairies to dead. Iron Defense could be cool in combination with Stamina, but I don't really see it taking lives. Oh, and Stamina procs every time DDarts hit, keeping you safe against Dragapult.

Defensive

Archaludon @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 104 HP / 188 SpD / 216 Spe
Impish / Bold Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Iron Defense / Draco Meteor / Foul Play ?
- Body Press / Draco Meteor
- Stealth Rock

Outspeeds Mamoswine, survives every type of Dragapult, and doesn't get OHKO'ed by Specs Flutter Mane or Band Chien-Pao. Can consider using Smack Down + Earthquake, Thunderbolt, or the like to make Stealth Rocks stay against Flying teams.

Hard Press isn’t an Eruption/Water Spout clone, it’s a Crush Grip/Wring Out clone (sadly)

 

[Spam Goose]

Archaludon feels underwhelming on paper due to its inability to withstand Chien-Pao's assaults (unlike Gouging Fire) due to Sacred Sword bypassing stamina. However, the increased SpD and Def actually matters, allowing it to survive something like Flutter Mane's Moonblast or Choice Specs Dragapult's Draco Meteor. Also, Stealth Rocks. Choice Scarf isnt recommended as its slower than Baxcalibur at +1, but it survives Chien-Pao's Ice Shard anytime and Hard Presses (Steel-type Physical Water Spout) Fairies to dead. Iron Defense could be cool in combination with Stamina, but I don't really see it taking lives. Oh, and Stamina procs every time DDarts hit, keeping you safe against Dragapult.

Ngl I think its going to be a blissey/chansey scenario with Duraludon. Evolite Duraludon is going to be extremely tanky on the physical side and able to take maybe 2 hits on the special, but able to hit back hard with its 120 special atk. sure it wont have reliable recovery, but able to be a pivot some teams would love to have is going to be invaluable. I personally don't think Archaludon's stats make it better in a majority scenarios over Duraludon with evolite

 

[Dead by Daylight]

Ngl I think its going to be a blissey/chansey scenario with Duraludon. Evolite Duraludon is going to be extremely tanky on the physical side and able to take maybe 2 hits on the special, but able to hit back hard with its 120 special atk. sure it wont have reliable recovery, but able to be a pivot some teams would love to have is going to be invaluable.

The issue with Duraludon is that while yes, it's very bulky, Archaludon can hold an item, isn't deathly afraid of Knock Off, and is generally outclassed on Dragon by Archaludon or Hisuian Goodra and on Steel by both, even if they don't see much usage on Steel.

 

[WhiteQueen]

I’m depressed that Kyurem is back, but we won’t be able to use him to his fullest potential. RIP Kyurem until a future gen.

 

[Dead by Daylight]

why does everyone miss Roost Kyurem. are y'all lunatics or smthn

Anyways, I'd like to propose a couple of questions to all of you: what are (in your opinion) the types that are most buffed and most shafted by the DLC, and what will be the best and worst types once the DLC meta shakes out? I'll go first.

Most Buffed + Top Type: Dragon - Top type right now for sure, unless Gouging Flame (Fire?) gets banned (then it falls to top 5). Still a major buff from its former status of top 10 type, though. In terms of buffs, Gouging Flame is everything Dragon could ask for (a Fairy and Ice neutrality that poses a potent offensive threat to the two types). Raging Bolt and Archaludon are also highly welcomed.

Most Shafted: Dark and Fairy - These two didn't get much from the DLCC, and as such, probably fall from where they used to be. Fairy still has a very strong niche as one of the newly-buffed Dragon matchup, and how bad can a type with Kingambit and Chien-Pao be in the long-term? These two won't be as good as they were pre-DLC, but they'll still be threats to deal with.

Worst Type: Electric - Honestly (in my opinion), Electric was never going to be saved unless Tapu Koko returned. The rise in Dragon's viability, a very difficult MU for it, also highly complicates its attempted rises. Sure, Supercell Slam is nice, but until Koko returns, Electric is unfortunately (again, in my opinion) doomed to mediocrity.

I'd be interested to hear all of your thoughts.

 

[AV Cosmoem]

Hydrapple could work well on grass. I think it takes a few threatening pokemon decently well, and it has a few different sets it can run due to a good movepool / ability / well rounded stats


Hydrapple @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor / Fickle Beam
- Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
- Earth Power
- Hydro Pump / Dragon Tail / Infestation / Body Press / Syrup Bomb / ...

This is one of the sets hydrapple can run. I didn't optimize EVs at all, they can definitely be improved upon. This guy is super bulky and makes a strong special tank. Due to regen he is great at scouting choiced special mons. Here's some calcs that show his bulk:

calcs

252 SpA Glimmora Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Hydrapple: 174-206 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Hydrapple: 266-314 (63.9 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Blood Moon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Hydrapple: 144-169 (34.6 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Hydrapple: 236-282 (56.7 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Hydrapple: 331-391 (79.5 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As you see hydrapple is very bulky specially, and has regen in order to keep momentum up. He can also hit 4/5 of these Pokemon with a super-effective move. The 4th slot has quite a few listed options that fill self explanatory roles. Its main weakness is its low speed and it adds a 4x ice weakness, which grass already sucks against. Maybe run abomasnow with this?


Hydrapple @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Fickle Beam
- Energy Ball / Giga Drain / Recover
- Earth Power

Another unoptimized EV spread. Hydrapple gets nasty plot and it packs a punch, having fickle beam which can randomly be 160 bp as well as having ep for a great coverage more. He does quite well against popular special walls. Life orb gives needed power and if you get a fickle beam boost it melts anything, even resists:
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hydrapple Fickle Beam (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 402-472 (100.5 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Plus you can heal the life orb recoil away by switching, which grants you longevity. Unfortunately he is pretty slow, which is a big deal as a setup sweeper. Recover over a grass move is an option considering there's 5 other grass types and hydrapple likes to stay healthy without switching out and getting rid of its boosts

 

[mushamu]

I think Archaludon will be good on Steel for people wanting to check Ogerpons in one slot since it does have the bulk to not get OHKO’ed by Hearthflame at +2 and paralyze it with Thunder Wave. Otherwise it’s also a Water resist and Fire neutrality so I can see it being around B rank on the type, and still competes with Empoleon who has better Special Defense and recovery. On Dragon, I can’t see it being good because Hisuian Goodra is needed so the type doesn’t lose to Moonblast and Ice beam. Maybe double Steel can be ran, but with all the Pokémon Dragon gets, I feel like for the most part Archaludon, or Duraludon won’t be ran. Eviolite Duraludon seems suboptimal because of the lack of recovery leading it to be unsustainable long term (Overqwil is better than Eviolite Hisuian Qwilfish for the same reason).

 

[DugZa]

The first round of tiering decisions for the brand new Indigo Disk DLC metagame is HERE!

We encourage further discussion on the new metagame and to share your thoughts about the new (and some old) Pokemon in the metagame. It is also important to note that, the Pokemon listed on the initial voting slates will not be the only Pokemon considered in subsequent quickban slates; any Pokemon that is deemed to be problematic or overpowering will be in our watchlist and tiering action will be taken as deemed necessary. Expect the next quick ban wave over the weekend.