Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[TurquoiseLink]

I decided to try Hoopa-Unbound. I was surprised at how Hoopa-Unbound performed on the OU ladder! How badly it performed, that is. This thing is so bad. I tried out Choice Scarf, and it did 35% to a Corviknight. Literally how. This thing is base 170 SpAtk. It's like, ok against stall at least.

I faced several Kingambits while trying it out. Twice, the opponent switched Kingambit hard into my Hoopa's attack. Twice, I predicted that and clicked Focus Blast. Twice, I missed. This thing is worse than Incineroar. Incineroar can check/counter certain mons, and it does that job well. Hoopa doesn't do ANYTHING special. It's a slow glass cannon that loses to half the meta, and can't even do that much damage. It is RUBL for a reason. I'm disappointed.

I want to try out some fun off-meta mons, but there just aren't any viable ones. I tried Chesnaught, Incineroar, Zapdos-Galar, and now Hoopa, and they all aren't that great. Out of the four, Incineroar was definitely the best.

I hit my peak in the 1700s with Hoopa Unbound. I still love the mon. I hate, hate, hate choice Hoopa though. Psychic is just not a move you can afford to lock into in gen 9 OU.

Pair with Wish for best results. I used a u-turn punish in Zapdos as well. Zapdos also spreads para which Hoopa loves.

Hoopa-Unbound @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Fighting/Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Mild Nature
- Knock Off
- Psychic
- Drain Punch/Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt

Tera fighting makes drain punch kill gambit. Otherwise I prefer a Tera that flips your fairy weakness. Poison also lets you get psychic off on Zamazenta and crushes Valiant.

The plan is very simple. Switch it in on basically any special attack. Then make more progress than they made on you. Its crazy hard for slow, defensive pokemon to switch in on hoopa unbound so you're often chunking sweepers that need their hp to set up.

Glowking can switch in, but he has to hard switch immediately so something else is eating a knock off anyway.

Corviknight is a common switch in to resist the psychic, but physical corvi dies to the psychic + thunderbolt when it tries to u-turn. Special corvi can take this but thunderbolt 2hkos, so a single predict with thunderbolt cripples it. U-turn is also just short of an ohko so you have a little leeway, especially with wish fish.

Kingambit is another common switch in, but Kingambit hates chip damage from knock off. As soon as he's chipped enough that random earthquakes can kill him be loses a lot of his power. Drain Punch needs tera to ohko, but has other matchup uses. Focus Blast 1-shots 70% of the time and Sucker Punch doesn't start ohko-ing until 2 allies dead, and not guaranteed until 4. This is a little misleading as hoopa usually takes chip damage switching in on stuff. It is dangerous for Kingambits too though.

Gholdengo deals 20% on your switch in (30% with make it rain) and is comfortably ohko'd by knock off. Even if you predict with a psychic you don't get punished much if it stays as it can't kill. I find most gholdengos nasty plot on your switch which is great progress for you as someone is eating this knock off.

It used to be a great lead against rain as you just turn 1 press thunderbolt against Pelipper. They have Archaludon these days though so it might not work as well as it used to there.

Honestly though, matchups aside, just switch in on any special attack and Assault Vest Hoopa will force a lot more progress than it took. I'm a big fan of this mon.

 

[TheTraininator]

You simply need to be careful around it. You can't just click U-turn and think you have no risk around it. It's the 7 turns of rain that is the issue, not arch. It has exploitable areas, such as speed and sp.defense.

(I should clarify this is just for the meme; I don’t want to imply Archaludon’s counterplay isn’t sufficient, I just thought it funny that I was recognizing similarities between how people discuss it and how people discuss Annihilape.)

 

[Magcargo]

I hit my peak in the 1700s with Hoopa Unbound. I still love the mon. I hate, hate, hate choice Hoopa though. Psychic is just not a move you can afford to lock into in gen 9 OU.

Pair with Wish for best results. I used a u-turn punish in Zapdos as well. Zapdos also spreads para which Hoopa loves.

Hoopa-Unbound @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Fighting/Poison
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Mild Nature
- Knock Off
- Psychic
- Drain Punch/Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt

Tera fighting makes drain punch kill gambit. Otherwise I prefer a Tera that flips your fairy weakness. Poison also lets you get psychic off on Zamazenta and crushes Valiant.

The plan is very simple. Switch it in on basically any special attack. Then make more progress than they made on you. Its crazy hard for slow, defensive pokemon to switch in on hoopa unbound so you're often chunking sweepers that need their hp to set up.

Glowking can switch in, but he has to hard switch immediately so something else is eating a knock off anyway.

Corviknight is a common switch in to resist the psychic, but physical corvi dies to the psychic + thunderbolt when it tries to u-turn. Special corvi can take this but thunderbolt 2hkos, so a single predict with thunderbolt cripples it. U-turn is also just short of an ohko so you have a little leeway, especially with wish fish.

Kingambit is another common switch in, but Kingambit hates chip damage from knock off. As soon as he's chipped enough that random earthquakes can kill him be loses a lot of his power. Drain Punch needs tera to ohko, but has other matchup uses. Focus Blast 1-shots 70% of the time and Sucker Punch doesn't start ohko-ing until 2 allies dead, and not guaranteed until 4. This is a little misleading as hoopa usually takes chip damage switching in on stuff. It is dangerous for Kingambits too though.

Gholdengo deals 20% on your switch in (30% with make it rain) and is comfortably ohko'd by knock off. Even if you predict with a psychic you don't get punished much if it stays as it can't kill. I find most gholdengos nasty plot on your switch which is great progress for you as someone is eating this knock off.

It used to be a great lead against rain as you just turn 1 press thunderbolt against Pelipper. They have Archaludon these days though so it might not work as well as it used to there.

Honestly though, matchups aside, just switch in on any special attack and Assault Vest Hoopa will force a lot more progress than it took. I'm a big fan of this mon.

Agreed, this set is good rn. Does quite well vs the Gking Kyurem structs on the latter and has a lot of utility into other Mus like Darkrai, raging bolt, etc.

 

[Heatranator]

(I should clarify this is just for the meme; I don’t want to imply Archaludon’s counterplay isn’t sufficient, I just thought it funny that I was recognizing similarities between how people discuss it and how people discuss Annihilape.)

I was more using your post as a good starting point because it shows how arch is nowhere close to as broken as people imply. I think it is a funny meme though

 

[weirdo faye]

So do you guys think kyurem will get banned or nope? Im a returning player trying to build my own team to ladder with, im thinking if kyurem doesnt get banned, im probably going to base my team around him. Have some ideas but havent actually made anything solid yet cos im waiting to see the suspect test results.

 

[Bold School]

Omg bro u are so right, there is so much counterplay, thats why rain is being spammed at the highest level in tours like spl and achieving some crazy high winrates, those players are just really bad and need to get gud!!! And that deo s guy is just so broken, he definitely doesnt get walled by every special wall in the tier. The "good" players just havent caught on yet!!!! Glad to see my fellow 1300s player pitching in their opinion and telling them how it is!!

You didn't read my post very closely, right? I specifically said that to say git gud would be reductive. I also made two separate parts of it, one for rain and one for Archaludon. We all know Arch is run on rain, but the differentiation between the two is important. That's why I split it up in the first place. I'm sorry for not having a conformist, populist opinion. Or at least your exact opinion.

Great advice on Deoxys Speed, by the way. Switch every special wall like Glowking into potential Knockoff or Ting-Lu into Superpower. Bravo! Such a smart player. I did say that this could be a skill issue on my end, which is yet another thing you probably missed, but this certainly doesn't prove it.

Finally, the quip about ratings. This isn't a serious account. It's for jank. I purposely don't put anything serious on this forum because this sort of thing becomes reductive. You know, the word reductive? I used that word before, you know. I didn't want you to miss it this time.

Anyways, thanks for the laughs.

So do you guys think kyurem will get banned or nope?

The wind is blowing ban. IDC either way, tbh.

 

[Just A Shroom God]

Great advice on Deoxys Speed, by the way. Switch every special wall like Glowking into potential Knockoff or Ting-Lu into Superpower. Bravo! Such a smart player. I did say that this could be a skill issue on my end, which is yet another thing you probably missed, but this certainly doesn't prove it.

I usually agree with your takes but this one is stone cold. Glowking requires significant investment to 2HKO with knock and can easily just regen out so knock doesn't even 3HKO next time. Standard spdef Ting-Lu isn't even 2HKOd with maximum attack investment. Take note that even doing this gets rid of both your spA investment, which you really need off of a base special attack of 95, and your boosted coverage, which is important for successfully pulling off a sweep. So, while technically it is able to beat glowking and ting-lu, it requires giving up many of its best attributes and makes it not really worth it, a la Iron Valiant.

edit: all these calcs are with life orb btw

 

[escarlata]

Trick room i've seen a bit on hatterene as a standalone move, though full trick room teams struggle due to the time restraints. As for magic room and wonder room, uhhh, good luck?
If I had to rank them then it would look like this
1. Grassy Terrain
2. Psychic Terrain




11. Electric Terrain
12. Misty Terrain
13. Trick Room
14. Wonder Room
15. Magic Room

Trick Room may not be the best play style but it’s much better than you are giving it credit for. Before DLC 2 TR was pretty much carried by exactly Kingambit/Ursaluna which isn’t really worth the stacking of Ghost/Dark weaknesses from the setters. Notably, Raging Bolt works as another huge payoff for running TR, while also alleviating the team’s weakness to physical walls. TR also tend to have a very good matchup into other forms of HO for obvious reasons.

Sample team for those interested:
https://pokepast.es/a22f9930d22f4663
Diancie/Hatterene/Gambit/Valiant feel like staples to me at this point. Raging Bolt and Hamurott are more of FOTM inclusions.

The overall faster meta means that things like -Spe 0 IV Iron Valiant and Hamurott no longer need to run Room Service to be slow enough for TR, and this in turn means our abusers are no longer “just lower tier mons” when TR isn’t up.

 

[Heatranator]

Trick Room may not be the best play style but it’s much better than you are giving it credit for. Before DLC 2 TR was pretty much carried by exactly Kingambit/Ursaluna which isn’t really worth the stacking of Ghost/Dark weaknesses from the setters. Notably, Raging Bolt works as another huge payoff for running TR, while also alleviating the team’s weakness to physical walls. TR also tend to have a very good matchup into other forms of HO for obvious reasons.

Sample team for those interested:
https://pokepast.es/a22f9930d22f4663
Diancie/Hatterene/Gambit/Valiant feel like staples to me at this point. Raging Bolt and Hamurott are more of FOTM inclusions.

The overall faster meta means that things like -Spe 0 IV Iron Valiant and Hamurott no longer need to run Room Service to be slow enough for TR, and this in turn means our abusers are no longer “just lower tier mons” when TR isn’t up.

Maybe I was underrating it a bit, but the main point still stands, it does struggle with time restraints. Unlike something like weather, there is no way to extend its duration or to set it up non-manually. The team you provided is cool, though having to use something like diancie is not really great. I would probably move it up to below electric terrain, as while electric terrain has to use pincurchin, it has a wider array of mons to use.
If you like trick room teams and want to use them, go ahead, don't let my opinions drag you down. I just don't think it is as good as other terrain conditions.

 

[Bold School]

I usually agree with your takes but this one is stone cold. Glowking requires significant investment to 2HKO with knock and can easily just regen out so knock doesn't even 3HKO next time. Standard spdef Ting-Lu isn't even 2HKOd with maximum attack investment. Take note that even doing this gets rid of both your spA investment, which you really need off of a base special attack of 95, and your boosted coverage, which is important for successfully pulling off a sweep. So, while technically it is able to beat glowking and ting-lu, it requires giving up many of its best attributes and makes it not really worth it, a la Iron Valiant.

My experience has been that I ran into a lot of Life Orb mixed sets. I guess I should probably run it myself to get more familiar with it and what it can do. But I had little luck with Glowking in particular. Thanks for the advice.

Archaludon and rain are as synonymous as pelliper and rain. There is no point in discussing them seperately because rain breaks archaludon and archaludon breaks rain.

No, Archaludon is actually quite good outside of rain. It is not as synonymous with rain as Pelipper. There is absolutely a point in breaking it up. Even Finch made the distinction that they were especially looking at Arch when he brought up rain.

40 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 185-218 (35.9 - 42.4%) -- 92% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 192-226 (79.6 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Deoxys speed is too weak to ever do anything vs teams that arent HO. It simply doesnt have the attacking stats to bust through any serious wall, struggling to pick up valuable ohkos on too many mons. On top of that, its two hardest hitting moves drop its attacking stats, leaving you extremely vulnerable if you get a turn wrong.

Alright. That's advice at least. I have run a lot of offensive teams lately. So maybe that's it.

The early chip on Ting Lu isn't great for me. That was with switches. I never tried outright leading it directly into Speed. Maybe that could work better. But I don't like leading it because it loses to stuff like Meow, which can be on the same team. U-Turn chip in general is problematic.

Also for some reason you left out the best wall to deo s in the game, spdef clef, which completely walls it no matter the set.

"Every special wall in the tier" wasn't just Clefable. But fine. I can see how Clef could do it. Maybe I'll run it more. It does actually seem like a really good answer now that you mention it.

If this isnt a serious account then why are u even posting. Some people come here hoping to see informed opinions on the metagame from players who know what they are talking about(still hoping). Also calling serious metagame discussion reductive is really bizzare, considering this is a forum for, you know, serious metagame discussion.

Because elitism isn't an argument. If I am playing a serious account, I won't post it here simply to avoid crap like this. But I still want to post here. So I do. It doesn't make me less knowledgeable as a whole. (Though I admitted my Speed knowledge may be lacking.) Being a highly rated player, assuming you are, makes you good at the ladder. It doesn't always make you right or not toxic. It doesn't mean someone lower rated is necesarrily wrong. The implication you are making is that players who aren't as good as you can never be right unless they agree with the high tier players.

As much as you say some people come here hoping to see informed opinions, plenty of people are probably intimidated and afraid to post because of attitudes like this.

Also calling serious metagame discussion reductive is really bizzare, considering this is a forum for, you know, serious metagame discussion.

You seem to have a lot of trouble with this word, don't you? I didn't call the serious discussion reductive. Look, I used that word for two things.

Once when I mentioned that saying git gud would be reductive. You somehow missed everything that sentence except specifically what I said was reductive.

The second time I was talking about your ratings measuring contest you were trying to initiate. It's very clear that you want to discredit my opinion by attacking my character. Misrepresent the post. Go after the rating. And then you don't have to spend time actually making decent points. This is what can be wrong with the Smogon community. Serious discussion itself is not and never was reductive. If anything, I would say your prior post was totally unserious and immature.

 

[Heatranator]

Trick Room may not be the best play style but it’s much better than you are giving it credit for. Before DLC 2 TR was pretty much carried by exactly Kingambit/Ursaluna which isn’t really worth the stacking of Ghost/Dark weaknesses from the setters. Notably, Raging Bolt works as another huge payoff for running TR, while also alleviating the team’s weakness to physical walls. TR also tend to have a very good matchup into other forms of HO for obvious reasons.

Admittedly, the power creep in this gen has made it harder to position than ever. TR ending on a turn where you are stuck on someone lacking priority is such a tempo loss that it can be gamelosing. As such, the best abusers currently are the ones who can continue to threaten with priority even after TR has ended.

Sample team for those interested:
https://pokepast.es/a22f9930d22f4663
Diancie/Hatterene/Gambit/Valiant feel like staples to me at this point. Raging Bolt and Hamurott are more of FOTM inclusions.

The overall faster meta means that things like -Spe 0 IV Iron Valiant and Hamurott no longer need to run Room Service to be slow enough for TR, and this in turn means our abusers are no longer “just lower tier mons” when TR isn’t up.

https://pokepast.es/11e86a55683338ee
This was my attempt at a trick room team, it was fun to make, and I can see why people like it. You do however need to dip into lower tier mons, which while it is alright to do, I use ludicolo on a team so if I complained I would be a massive hypocrite, it shouldn't feel necessary.

 

[tommytt22]

https://pokepast.es/11e86a55683338ee
This was my attempt at a trick room team, it was fun to make, and I can see why people like it. You do however need to dip into lower tier mons, which while it is alright to do, I use ludicolo on a team so if I complained I would be a massive hypocrite, it shouldn't feel necessary.

I usually have a really bad winrate against trick room. Infact I probably struggle against it more than any other playstyle because it's just not something I prepare for in teambuilding/ get enough practice against.
One thing I've seen with successful trick room builds is at least 3 setters, consider it a setup move of sorts. 2 utility setters like hatterene/ cresselia and an offensive setter like hoopa-U. Gambit goes alright but ursaluna over crawdaunt might be a bit better, even if its a bit cliche. Hoopa is also great as you can run eject pack with hyperspace fury to pivot after trick room. If you wanted a water type you could also try araquanid or primarina?

 

[Heatranator]

I usually have a really bad winrate against trick room. Infact I probably struggle against it more than any other playstyle because it's just not something I prepare for in teambuilding/ get enough practice against.
One thing I've seen with successful trick room builds is at least 3 setters, consider it a setup move of sorts. 2 utility setters like hatterene/ cresselia and an offensive setter like hoopa-U. Gambit goes alright but ursaluna over crawdaunt might be a bit better, even if its a bit cliche. Hoopa is also great as you can run eject pack with hyperspace fury to pivot after trick room. If you wanted a water type you could also try araquanid or primarina?

I did consider all those options, but the main reason why I chose crawdaunt is aqua jet, which gives you reliable priority when trick room isn't up. I was very close to using primarina, but it has a decent amount of overlap with hatterene and araquanid sadly has rocks weakness. I would say that all are viable and I could see someone switching out mr krabs for the others, and I wouldn't bat an eye.

Also, I have been using dragonite on a stall team with haze and it is kinda nice, it can emergency check a lot of mons.

 

[Soiramio3000]

I have got a question about the higher tiers: does kyurem see more usage there?
In the low tiers I don't encounter it all that often.

I do encounter it but it does not appear thaaaaat often.

 

[tommytt22]

I have got a question about the higher tiers: does kyurem see more usage there?
In the low tiers I don't encounter it all that often.

I do encounter it but it does not appear thaaaaat often.

What do you consider higher tier? I can only comment up to about mid 1700s beyond that is past my domain. I probably see it once every 4 battles. Doesn't feel top 10 in usage. But i have to watch myself everytime I see it. Strong pokemon

 

[Heatranator]

I have got a question about the higher tiers: does kyurem see more usage there?
In the low tiers I don't encounter it all that often.

I do encounter it but it does not appear thaaaaat often.

I am around 1400, so low-mid elo, and I see it once in a while. It isn't the most popular mon, but it is still seen decently enough that I have to do a merry song and dance once every 5 games average. I've been doing too much dancing, help.

 

[escarlata]

Maybe I was underrating it a bit, but the main point still stands, it does struggle with time restraints. Unlike something like weather, there is no way to extend its duration or to set it up non-manually. The team you provided is cool, though having to use something like diancie is not really great. I would probably move it up to below electric terrain, as while electric terrain has to use pincurchin, it has a wider array of mons to use.
If you like trick room teams and want to use them, go ahead, don't let my opinions drag you down. I just don't think it is as good as other terrain conditions.

https://pokepast.es/11e86a55683338ee
This was my attempt at a trick room team, it was fun to make, and I can see why people like it. You do however need to dip into lower tier mons, which while it is alright to do, I use ludicolo on a team, it shouldn't feel necessary.

TR is imo a traditionally very matchup dependent team that thrive in more offensive leaning formats and struggle in slower and more defensive ones. And the meta being as offensive as it is now makes it that for the first time ever since SV, I felt like running TR is not actively killing my winrate.

Despite TR teams being overall rather homogenous, I feel like TR can further be classified based on their selection of TR users. As stable a user Glowking is, I feel like he is overall a low impact user, which could be why you feel that your TR turns feel limited.

I don’t claim to have the best TR builds, but the variants that I have been having most success with is basically Kingambit-turbo, which tries to close out the game by the second-third use of TR. In that sense, it isn’t really too different from Rain who also wants to end the game the second time Rain is up.

The main weakness I always felt with TR is that TR ending when you have a non priority user out is such a momentum sink that can be game losing since the second TR is often the hardest to set up throughout a game. The fact that there is no good special priority move in turn meant that switching to a special attacker in TR always felt like a momentum loss that needs a third TR to win (which if denied, loses you the game).

That’s why Raging Bolt felt like such a natural fit. Full bulk investment on Raging Bolt and Kingambit are already capable of closing games on their own, and TR is just helping them remove their traditional checks.

 

[cosmogii]

genuinely curious why more people aren't using galvantula as a web setter.
its got 100% accurate thunder waves, good stab in thunder, and still has a pretty damn fast speed stat, even for this insanely power crept meta.

i get its not as fast as ribombee or bulky as araquanid, but i feel like its niche is pretty valuable nonetheless. my main guess is it lets in raging bolt too easily, though it can always just pack volt switch to bait the mon in. i dunno, i'm not particularly good at this meta. thoughts?

 

[Fropop]

Two question about your TR team :
-Why going with 0 speed Ivs but not going all out with -speed naturs (brave and quiet rather than adamant and modest) ? Is there some relevant mon you want to outspeed outside TR ?
-No ursaluna ? Almost all the TR teams I faced (not recently, was before dlc2 I guess so maybe it is not relevant anymore) used it and it was hitting like a truck !

 

[Cuddly]

genuinely curious why more people aren't using galvantula as a web setter.
its got 100% accurate thunder waves, good stab in thunder, and still has a pretty damn fast speed stat, even for this insanely power crept meta.

i get its not as fast as ribombee or bulky as araquanid, but i feel like its niche is pretty valuable nonetheless. my main guess is it lets in raging bolt too easily, though it can always just pack volt switch to bait the mon in. i dunno, i'm not particularly good at this meta. thoughts?

Too middlegroundy for OU and for something that has a specific niche.
It’s faster than Araquanid but doesn’t hit nearly as hard or even really that hard in general.
It’s stronger than Ribombee but is noticably slower and doesn’t have the same utility.
It also struggles against dealing with Hatterene, which it’s not strong enough to break it easily, and doesn’t have Skill Swap like Bee does.
Oh and there is also Smeargle which has Stone Axe and Ceaseless Edge and Sticky Web and every move in the game besides Revival Blessing for some reason.

 

[Anchor9]

Too middlegroundy for OU and for something that has a specific niche.
It’s faster than Araquanid but doesn’t hit nearly as hard or even really that hard in general.
It’s stronger than Ribombee but is noticably slower and doesn’t have the same utility.
It also struggles against dealing with Hatterene, which it’s not strong enough to break it easily, and doesn’t have Skill Swap like Bee does.
Oh and there is also Smeargle which has Stone Axe and Ceaseless Edge and Sticky Web and every move in the game besides Revival Blessing for some reason.

Revival Blessing Smeargle was too broken in Game Freak’s eyes.

 

[Just A Shroom God]

genuinely curious why more people aren't using galvantula as a web setter.
its got 100% accurate thunder waves, good stab in thunder, and still has a pretty damn fast speed stat, even for this insanely power crept meta.

i get its not as fast as ribombee or bulky as araquanid, but i feel like its niche is pretty valuable nonetheless. my main guess is it lets in raging bolt too easily, though it can always just pack volt switch to bait the mon in. i dunno, i'm not particularly good at this meta. thoughts?

electric is a much worse stab than fairy + minute speed tier difference notably makes it lose to triple axel meow, and 90% accurate paralysis just isn't a good enough niche.

 

[mothra_moth]

"Would your signature moved be banned?"

"Nah. I'd make people sleep."

This thing might be the biggest gambler in OU right now just for the fact it has one of the few ways to spread sleep, and sure, ghost types can't be hit by Relic Song. But Meloetta ALSO has knock off and shadow ball so like....do they REALLY wanna come in against you? No! Meloetta has a 20% chance to put the opposing Pokemon to sleep. Not consistent but it's definitely a 20% chance that can ruin a whole game if RNG decides your team MUST fall asleep.

Legit the only thing holding this thing back is Relic Song being Normal type and the weird form change.

 

[Exotic64]

"Would your signature moved be banned?"

"Nah. I'd make people sleep."
View attachment 599102

This thing might be the biggest gambler in OU right now just for the fact it has one of the few ways to spread sleep, and sure, ghost types can't be hit by Relic Song. But Meloetta ALSO has knock off and shadow ball so like....do they REALLY wanna come in against you? No! Meloetta has a 20% chance to put the opposing Pokemon to sleep. Not consistent but it's definitely a 20% chance that can ruin a whole game if RNG decides your team MUST fall asleep.

Legit the only thing holding this thing back is Relic Song being Normal type and the weird form change.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2046181274-29nuybo3svfqe9jcsorgdgx139uluqapw
this is the funniest replay of all time a whole team just got 1v6d by relic song LOL

 

[RaikouLover]

Yes - especially the former! I'm compiling replays for the TrainerAid round robin right now and not only is rain very commmon but also the winrate is unusually high!

Please isolate out Archaludon. Let’s see the win rate with vs. without Arch.

In my experience rain is not any stronger than it used to be.. it’s just Archaludon as a singular mon bulldozing through teams and patching up some significant weaknesses that are common in rain structures.

So do you guys think kyurem will get banned or nope? Im a returning player trying to build my own team to ladder with, im thinking if kyurem doesnt get banned, im probably going to base my team around him. Have some ideas but havent actually made anything solid yet cos im waiting to see the suspect test results.

Yep. Strong chance Kyurem gets banned. It’s uniquely stressful on the builder.