Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[Mugenman88]

Sleep moves are now banned from SV OU! Sleep Clause is now lifted from SV OU!

For more, see here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...leep-clause-is-now-lifted-from-sv-ou.3734948/

It was a long time coming. Deserved, rolled, hold that L, etc.
Now hopefully OU will be a lot more bearable to play now that everyone and their mother isn't fishing for hypnosis hits now

 

[Mikegengsta]

Will the results of other Pokémon be posted in the survey later today? Curious to see where everything stands. Finchinator

 

[Finchinator]

Will the results of other Pokémon be posted in the survey later today? Curious to see where everything stands. Finchinator

Tomorrow hopefully.

 

[Finchinator]

A couple questions:
- Will Sleep moves be automatically banned in further generations?

Banning this now seems unfair/unreasonable. We will get there when we get there.

- If a large meta shift were to happen (on the level of Terastallization or a Boots ban or something), would Sleep moves potentially be re-allowed in OU?

Again: we will cross that bridge when we get there.

- Will lower tiers also have sleep moves potentially removed?

Yes

 

[EpicGuy321]

No, the FBI is simply getting some first impressions from you.

whoa, genuinely didn't know that both it is that and that builder doesn't make it invalid. Cool! I assume it is there so if you accidentally ev train wrong, you have some leeway.

go into teambuilder and give a mon evs like 252/252/4, then add 2 somewhere. it'll say 0 remaining instead of -2.

 

[ninth]

I welcome the removal of the fanfiction-esque Sleep Clause Mod first and foremost. The abolition of dishonest cheese in sleep moves is also welcomed with open arms — if it is viable to start gambling and potentially win turn 1 then we've definitely lost the plot.

 

[TheTraininator]

The thing I’m most excited about is for this thread to finally be able to talk about other things.

EDIT: Oh, and isn’t it sick that unbanning Darkrai both got us a cool new toy to play with AND got Sleep Clause finally dismantled once and for all? Darkrai is the unsung hero of the new OU tier.

 

[Divine Retribution]

Yes, finally we can talk about the real issues.

Like how Quick Claw is an uncompetitive skilless cheese item only used by the worst players to sometimes occasionally score a cheap win against better players and must be banned ASAP. This should be priority #1 and nothing else should be discussed in this thread until it is resolved.

 

[Heatranator]

Yes, finally we can talk about the real issues.

Like how Quick Claw is an uncompetitive skilless cheese item only used by the worst players to sometimes occasionally score a cheap win against better players and must be banned ASAP. This should be priority #1 and nothing else should be discussed in this thread until it is resolved.

Slippery slope arguements anyone?

 

[CobsonYaoi]

Since Sleep Powder is gone it looks like I must retire my trusty Hilligant. Goodnight, sweet prince.

Actually I think I'll try out a Victory Dance set.

 

[Vall]

I just want to say, Good riddance. regardless of it was ever broken it was never contirbuted anything positive to the game.

Anyway, Amoongus and Darkai found dead in a ditch, anyone else?

 

[Pokenar]

Darkrai and H-Lil are doing fine, Amoongus is applying to McDonalds, and the autopsy is currently under way for Breloom

 

[Vall]

Darkrai is still K, Amoongus probably not so much

Yeah was exaggerating slightly. That said I still think it'll be UUBL in the end, as it doesn't offer much unique from the myriad of other fast attackers in the tier.

 

[Ruft]

I would like the people that are questioning the fact that Yawn is banned to realize that it's Yawn without sleep clause we're talking about. Something like Slowking-Galar or Skeledirge could spam Yawn with hazards up and it's not like other phazing moves where you can attack the Pokemon that is using the phazing move, if you attack in response to Yawn spam your Pokemon is catching a sleep. And without sleep clause, it could do that all game, which would almost certainly be unhealthy and exacerbate the hazard problem.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I'm very confused as to why Yawn was included on the list. It felt like there was enough people arguing that the way the move functions make its different enough from other Sleep moves, and that it really shouldn't have been lumped in with the rest of them.

Apart from that, no complaints from me. Sleep is a stupid mechanic.

as one of the original people who went into detail on how yawn differs from other sleep moves in that it technically inflicts a volatile status condition that is not sleep itself, i still feel it's appropriate to lump it in with the others due to the possibility of using degenerate yawn-spamming strategies to force repeated switches in a clauseless meta

 

[Mikegengsta]

Yes, finally we can talk about the real issues.

Like how Quick Claw is an uncompetitive skilless cheese item only used by the worst players to sometimes occasionally score a cheap win against better players and must be banned ASAP. This should be priority #1 and nothing else should be discussed in this thread until it is resolved.

Agreed

 

[Vall]

I would like the people that are questioning the fact that Yawn is banned to realize that it's Yawn without sleep clause we're talking about. Something like Slowking-Galar could spam Yawn with hazards up and it's not like other phazing moves where you can attack the Pokemon that is using the phazing move, if you attack in response to Yawn spam your Pokemon is catching a sleep. And without sleep clause, it could do that all game, which would almost certainly be unhealthy.

rip there goes my Hydrapple set.
What 's the best 4th move for a fickle + drain + ep set

 

[Anchor9]

Wait, WAS REST BANNED?! (Sad Dondozo noises).

On another note, while losing sleep is a blow to , I think it will still thrive. In fact, it may even cause people to finally find a more optimal set then Hypnosis cheese. hits hard, outspeeds about everything besides Choice Scarf , and garuntees a Nasty Plot usually.

 

[Mikegengsta]

Wait, WAS REST BANNED?! (Sad Dondozo noises).

On another note, while losing sleep is a blow to , I think it will still thrive. In fact, it may even cause people to finally find a more optimal set then Hypnosis cheese. hits hard, outspeeds about everything besides Choice Scarf , and garuntees a Nasty Plot usually.

Rest is safe

 

[UnusualBoy]

All this mess caused by Darkrai but well, the choice was made, bless Breeloom and Amoongus, they were the most affected by this.

 

[TheTraininator]

Darkrai will be fine; HypnoRai was its least consistent set and only really worth using for how solid its balance matchup is with a bit of luck. It’ll just go back to using its other sets.

Same hat.

I think this gets hit a bit harder than the two above. It has less set versatility and its sleep sets were more consistent, so without sleep powder, it faces a lot more competition on sun, a playstyle that can’t possibly fit all its viable abusers onto one team as it is. However, it’s still one of the best Chlorophyll Pokémon in the game, so I’m sure it’s not all doom and gloom.

Meh. Hypnosis was mostly a filler move on it that was chosen for its potential to cheese. It never needed it and is gonna do exactly the same thing it always did.

Surprisingly, unlike Ninetales-A, Torkoal is hit a good deal harder. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not going to be used any less since it still is the sun setter of choice, but being able to force switches with Yawn helps a lot with its passivity and synergized very well with the Stealth Rocks it set. I suspect it’ll just be running Wisp most of the time instead.

This Pokémon gets hit the hardest out of everything listed so far; Spore + Regenerator let it spread consistent sleep throughout the course of a game, which it can’t do any more. However, Stun Spore is still a great pick for its utility in terms of speed control, though that 75% accuracy hurts. Of course, if you want to sleep things that bad, you could always drop Regenerator for Effect Spore KEKW

Losing Spore is actually nuclear for it. It really needs the free turns to do its lead shenaningans. Even with all the moves in the world, it’s harder than ever to justify it on anything other than webs.

Well there goes its one OU niche. Now it has little to set itself apart from the 50 million other breakers & priority users.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

Finally after 2 decades...

 

[CobsonYaoi]

Well there goes its one OU niche. Now it has little to set itself apart from the 50 million other breakers & priority users.

I think Breloom should get an evolution that doesn't need to rely on sleep. Just sayin.

 

[TheTraininator]

And without sleep clause, it could do that all game, which would almost certainly be unhealthy and exacerbate the hazard problem.

Doing nothing but Yawning? He just like me fr

rip there goes my Hydrapple set.
What 's the best 4th move for a fickle + drain + ep set

Dragon Tail!

 

[Pokenar]

I want to see who is the first person to get two sleeps active at once with Relic Song and post a replay of it