I think the fact that some extremely offbeat options were listed just goes to show how many options you have for beating stall if you're a skilled player. There are plenty of other options that are viable like np hydreigon, sub np rotom w after you deal with blissey, cb floatzel on rain, bu taunt quaquaval, etc.
you can easily break stall with the right pokemon, the right coverage moves and the right team support. for instance, a well-played iron valiant alone has the power and coverage to break past every stall pokemon. blissey falls to aura sphere/focus blast from choice specs sets and close combat from mixed sets, clodsire gets obliterated by psyshock, skeledirge and gholdengo fear shadow ball, alomomola gets broken past by its STABs or thunderbolt, corviknight gets slammed by its fighting STABs and hates thunderbolt, and so on and so forth. chien-pao can accomplish the same by virtue of its raw strength allowing it to easily break past stall staples after minimal chip damage. garganacl's salt cure makes stall very hard to play effectively and purifying salt blocking status moves doesn't help either. and again, these are just a few pokemon that beat stall, and all by themselves at that. you can very well stack these pokemon (as well as many others) onto a team and anchor them with good team support to good results
This is a fantastic take and thanking you for clearing up the air Finch. As probably the biggest advocate for a Garganacl ban, a quick ban during suspect testing is just plain absurdity.
I agree that Espathra requires no skill at all to use (Like Nacl, and Pao) but I think a quickban right now especially (over Nacl especially) is a reach.
Why should we take your word for it more than anyone? Your only replay is a poor example for multiple reasons and you haven't provided any evidence that stall is as bad as you think it is. Someone clicking SP on a Toxapex should've had you second guessing linking that replay.
my elo has never exceeded 1300.even if I go there I imediately snowball back to the 1000-1100 since pokemon showdown remembers to sent me hard opponents.
Sub Skeledirge is also a pretty damn hard check to Garg. Unless they have Attack investment, Salt Cure will never break your Subs in a single hit without a crit. It's such an amazing feeling watching Dirge just continuously click Torch Song vs Garg and Garg can't do anything about it.
Isn't thanksgiving on november?
Bruh if you're elo doesn't even come close to 1500 then you're not having a good grasp on the metagame. 1500 is usually where the average player rests and if you're lower than that, you're gonna run into stupid shit because lower ranked players don't know too much of the metagame. That's just the way the ladder works. Especially, by your own admission, that you keep returning to only 1000 elo which is what all new accounts start at
naclstack is balanced i think just get good i think
Honestly, while I personally have slowly stopped struggling vs Garg, I still know that Garg's trio kit of good bulk, Salt Cure, and Purifying Salt is still too much. Decent bulk with Purifying Salt means you can't wear it down with burns or poison. Purifying Salt with Salt Cure means you need to have a good Sub user that outpaces Garg, or run Cloak with a mon that can blitz it. Good bulk with Salt Cure means it becomes excessively annoying to take down for most Pokemon.
We have reached the point where Groudon's bulk is just decent.
oui oui oui baguette le France idk im sorry, here is you free haha
I don't know, you tell me
I know smogon does not support complex bans due to them being a slippery slope and a rabbit hole that could cause dangerous tiering misfires, but I do wonder how problematic Garga is if we take salt cure out of the equation, because salt cure is the thing that punishes everything and makes garga unironically one of the best wall breakers on the tier, water and steel, 2 of the best overall types are now bad, and forces you to tera or protean into worse defensive typings just to try and stay longer, this is why things like sub pult, sub dirge and grass knot gren are so effective, because it lets you play just a bit more into "the floor is salt cure" minigame
I say "decent bulk" because I've watched Gargs get clapped in a single turn in my battles. Groudon also is able to set the sun, drastically reducing one of its common weaknesses; Water. Garg can't do that. Garg also has access to Tera, which changes how you play around it... Groudon does not for right now.We have reached the point where Groudon's bulk is just decent.
Since powercreep has come this far, which fomer ubers did everyone expect to drop to OU this gen?
Counterpoint: Covert Cloak. I've started running it on my Gastrodon and it's putting in a lot of work, even against Garg. On a Pokemon with good bulk and a recovery move, Cloak actually feels pretty damn bananas.
i was joking i'm so sorry if i didn't make that clear enough. i have seen how broken this thing is at firsthand several times before and am fully supportive of a ban. i just thought it'd be funny if i said "naclstack is balanced" as a joke in response to you abbreviating garganacl as nacl
Yeah, but talking just about bulk, having access to recovery that isn't rest is a big deal, especially if you are inmune to status.
Honestly, feels like sand as a whole isn't a very good weather this gen. Rain seems iffy, and Sun is only ""good"" because of Protosynthesis. Garg in sand still has the same issues as out of sand, except that now those incoming Special attacks do a little less damage.
because there's no good abusers of it. that's why sun and rain are both viable whereas sand is not. its best option for a sweeper is lycanroc, which is an otherwise unviable pokemon without it. if excadrill, dracozolt or even houndstone were a part of the meta then the playstyle would see much more use than it does now
Interesting. What would Houndstone bring to the table, assuming Last Respects was banned and it went free/
Oh wow, hello tier shifts. Pawmot UU... I wonder why. It just got into OU last shift. Tauros-Fire keeps dropping lower and lower lmfao.
Tauros Fire is dropping due to Water one being a thing (and better in many match-ups) and Species Clause existing. If one uses one Tauros,he can't use the other on the same team, so both being viable sabotage the use of each other. If Lando-I isn't banned the first day Home drops, Lando-T will take some time to claim the number 1 spot from Tusk or Gholdengo for the very same reason.
