Not necesssarily here to just win, but I'm here to have a great time.
there are two kinds of playersplease dont use drifblim it didnt deserve to rise im begging you
Not necesssarily here to just win, but I'm here to have a great time.
there are two kinds of playersplease dont use drifblim it didnt deserve to rise im begging you
You have to understand that driftblim has the amazing niche of being a WoW user and a defogger, and walls the slithering wingthere are two kinds of players
I might be missing something but doesnt altaria do basically the exact same things???You have to understand that driftblim has the amazing niche of being a WoW user and a defogger, and walls the slithering wing
whats a krookodile and diancie anyways
You know, a similar yet different set used to be dominant in uu and decent in ou before the home update came and exposed zone for the washed up shockingly frail clanker he truly is and sent him to the darkest pits of uu where he was tortured by being forced to barely hang to a tier he had no niche in before watching as the mons once considered the biggest victims of power creep rose from irrelevance while he slowly and painfully dropped to publ, one more defensive, either investing defense or special defense, one that constantly slammed its “hands” together to form a barrier to drain its leftovers as much healing as possible, one that ran analytic so its body press could do more damage, at the cost of any opportunity to set up 3 whole iron defensesSo, a couple of days the tier shifts happened, I noticed one of my favorite mons to use last gen dropped again, and this time there's not that big of a chance of it leaving the tier (if anything, it's gonna keep dropping down), so I decided to use it again!
Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 196 HP / 68 Def / 244 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Discharge
Now with the option of terastalization, Body Press Magnezone is more menacing than ever I was gonna suggest a specs Magnet Pull set, but most of the steels in the tier don't really mind staying on magnezone a turn or 2, so setup felt like the correct choice, being able to use the likes of Klefki and Foretress as setup fodder and being a decent check to bronzong without psychic STAB. You can usually take 1 to 2 kills before going down, which is really nice for another breakers on your team. I recommend pairing it with mons like Diancie, Sylveon and Florges. The speed investment outspeeds base 90's uninvested (Brambleghast mainly) to get an iron defense up, though it could be made bulkier if needed.
I agree with the contention that Wo-Chein is over centralizing but I disagree with the assertion that Mimikyu over-centralizes hyper offense. With support as in spikes and priority super effective moves like Sucker Punch from Bisharp or Shadow Sneak from Brambleghast do effectively check Mimikyu. I believe more thought should be put into thinking about Krookodile.Alright there has been some tiering talks here and there so I'll try to succinctly write my thoughts on the tier here.
From my experience, RU is dominated by 2 main team styles at the moment which are balance and hyper-offense. This is not an issue per say, however these teams tend to revolve around the same Pokemon over and over again. These Pokemon being extremely powerful in RU are almost mandatory to build a competitive team and therefore restrict the builder by overclassing all the other options. I'm talking here about Wo-Chien and Mimikyu.
To me, what makes it too much for the tier is tera. Wo-Chien is of course an absurdly good Pokemon with tons of utility potential but the fact that its typing is pretty bad defensively makes it alright to deal with thanks to Pokemon like Kilowattrel, Slither Wing, or Decidueye-Hisui for instance. Once it turns Poison or Ghost type thought, it's another story completely. The aforementioned Pokemon are of course useless against it now. Our lack of good offensive Ground types surely makes it harder against tera Poison, and Psychic types are usually complexe to bring in because you don't want to take a Knock Off. Tera Ghost makes it the best anti-spin in the tier while only being weak to strong Dark and Ghost type attacks which are very very scarce in the tier atm. As a consequence Wo-Chien becomes a prime concern in the builder because optimally you need tools to beat it before AND after tera and even then it's still hard to do in practice.
As Wo-Chien enables absurdly efficient defensive core to prosper, I have seen hyper-offenses being used more and more in response and thrive on the ladder and in tournaments.
Mimikyu is a keystone for most HOs thanks to its great typing, Disguise and enormous breaking/sweeping potential. I challenge you to have a look at the RU pool and find me Pokemon able to take somewhat easily a Mimikyu at +2. You will probably be left with Forretress as the only viable one. The other Steel types can't deal with Drain Punch and the rest gets blown up by Play Rough/Shadow Claw. Its strong priority makes it reliable against other HO and faster opponents as well. This means that Mimikyu is to me one of the best (if not the best) at forcing defensive tera and even then, in most cases you will probably need to sacrifice one or two Pokemon + tera advantage to deal with it.
Of course, Mimikyu is not the only offensive threat that feels banworthy (s/o pawmot and revavroom) but it's the one I feel the strongest about atm. I think these two are the most unhealthy presences in the current meta and if they were to be banned the tier would make a step towards a more balanced metagame.
I disagree on the krook part. Even though it got a LOT better thanks to Knock off, it's still quite linear on its playstyle and its checks don't change that much between sets. you're (almost) guaranteed to run Knock off and EQ on every set, with a variation of either Close Combat, Stone Edge and Gunk Shot on offensive sets (all of which are exploitable by bulkier builds) and stealth rocks + taunt on utility sets. You could try Weakness Policy with Power Trip, but it's too weak to priority to really make use of it. Bulk up could be an option, but you're still too exploitable to set up.I agree with the contention that Wo-Chein is over centralizing but I disagree with the assertion that Mimikyu over-centralizes hyper offense. With support as in spikes and priority super effective moves like Sucker Punch from Bisharp or Shadow Sneak from Brambleghast do effectively check Mimikyu. I believe more thought should be put into thinking about Krookodile.
I feel like there are enough Noiverns around to make timid max speed a necessity, otherwise you're either letting it defog for free or you're KO'd by draco every time. I do have a really (I'm curious if anyone has some good noivern EV spreads, because I have spent a lot of time thinking about how to make the most out of noivern's decent bulk and decent offenses.
Noivern @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Frisk
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 144 HP / 132 SpA / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower
- something other than draco meteor
- Roost
This is sort of my best effort at making something that is decently bulky but also still doing damage. The HP EVs let it live a +2 sucker punch from bisharp from max hp and a life orb double shock from pawmot and the speed EVs are the most you can give up without tying inteleon. As far as I can tell the only thing you miss the SpA on is missing a guaranteed 2hko vs decently spdef wo-chien, but the odds of them only having a bit of spdef are low vs full physdef or full spdef, and wo-chien is never a grass type anyways. I like this spread when using taunt or defog (if you are into that) noivern, since when you use draco meteor you just want to be doing as much damage as possible. Does anyone else have a noivern EV spread that hits some important benchmarks for bulk?
Except that priority strategy still involves sacrificing something to mimikyu to break disguise and let your priority ko, and if mimikyu has shadow sneak then your brambleghast is going to get outsped and ohkoed unless you also commit a tera on something that really doesn't want to tera. Anything that requires at least a 1 for 1 trade to reliably beat is not really a reliable counter strategy.I agree with the contention that Wo-Chein is over centralizing but I disagree with the assertion that Mimikyu over-centralizes hyper offense. With support as in spikes and priority super effective moves like Sucker Punch from Bisharp or Shadow Sneak from Brambleghast do effectively check Mimikyu. I believe more thought should be put into thinking about Krookodile.
Personally I have been scarred enough times by risking a speed tie when tilted that I just try to avoid speed ties whenever possible, so I just see the 20 speed EVs as just free points to put in hp when minmaxing, I don't think you lose out on too much when just taking those 20 points out of SpA though. Super fang is definitely underexplored on noivern, it feels like u-turn only exists to have something to click vs a diancie switch in, so on teams that don't find it too hard to switch into diancie why not just click super fang and get some good chip? I might even consider running it over flamethrower on certain sets like draco meteor/second attack/some utility move that isn't taunt/roost.I feel like there are enough Noiverns around to make timid max speed a necessity, otherwise you're either letting it defog for free or you're KO'd by draco every time.
| | |
Umbreon @ Heavy-Duty Boots | Dragalge @ Heavy-Duty Boots | Bronzong @ Leftovers |
Ability: Inner Focus | Ability: Adaptability | Ability: Levitate |
Tera Type: Poison | Tera Type: Water | Tera Type: Water |
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD | EVs: 220 HP / 232 SpA / 56 Spe | EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD |
Bold Nature | Modest Nature | Sassy Nature |
-Foul Play | - Sludge Bomb | - Stealth Rock |
- Wish | - Draco Meteor | - Gyro Ball / Heavy Slam |
- Protect | - Toxic Spikes | - Night Shade / Earthquake |
- Toxic | - Flip Turn | - Protect / Grass Knot |
Speaking of the tier shift (and because this thread needs something to discuss), what are your expectations and hopes for the november tier shift?
Mence, Maushold, T-tar, The good zoroark, and Talonflame all coming are amazing for us. If they do, as for rises. I think we're gonna lose Wo-chein or Mimikyu, Both are nuts.View attachment 566290
Here is my prediuction, based off my limited time in uu. Cyclizar, talonflame, chesnaught, donphan and amuk are what I'm most looking forward to.
Maushold has seen a surge of popularity in OU and might rise instead of drop, it’s not very likely but it is a possibilityView attachment 566290
Here is my prediuction, based off my limited time in uu. Cyclizar, talonflame, chesnaught, donphan and amuk are what I'm most looking forward to.
View attachment 566290
Here is my prediuction, based off my limited time in uu. Cyclizar, talonflame, chesnaught, donphan and amuk are what I'm most looking forward to.
How can you say that when we're (probably) getting THE best krook counter in the game? (...it also means that, judging from the potential list of drops (which isn't the most reliable but it gives a general idea) that krook is looking to be as good as ever.
While this honestly seems true, they did say the same about wo-chien. It is more bulky though (with recover), but like most things that do well against krook, it'll have to fear the krook's teammates, particularly gardevoir(252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Eviolite Dipplin: 218-260 (60 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) and other pokemon using trick.How can you say that when we're (probably) getting THE best krook counter in the game? (I do agree with the feeling that krook will keep being amazing tho)
Just a small correction, but according to Bulbapedia Sticky Hold also blocks Trick/Switcheroo. Also, the teammate argument goes both ways as well, though I agree it is quite vulnerable to special attackers, even with eviolite XD.While this honestly seems true, they did say the same about wo-chien. It is more bulky though (with recover), but like most things that do well against krook, it'll have to fear the krook's teammates, particularly gardevoir(252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 84 SpD Eviolite Dipplin: 218-260 (60 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) and other pokemon using trick.
(I do legit think that it's not gonna be all that it's hyped to be, it dies to most special attackers)
Otherwise, I too am quite excited for potential drops!