Serious Teacher loses appeal to return to teaching because of history in pornography

[TheValkyries]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162...ed-calif-teacher-with-porn-past-loses-appeal/

This is currently the most trending story on Yahoo.

My second thought about this article is how wrong it feels to basically be telling this teacher, "Hey, because of your past choices and past [perfectly legal] profession you are now a horrible person, a horrible role model, and are therefore unfit to be teaching." It bothers me because the decision talks as if previous, frowned upon life-choices impact one's ability to teach and be an effective role-model.

What does everyone here think? Good decision or bad decision to not let her teach?

 

[Acklow]

My second thought

Wait. What was your first thought on this article?

 

[TheValkyries]

Wait. What was your first thought on this article?

My first thought was "Holy shit lol, that's my 9th Grade Geoscience Teacher."

But that's neither here nor there.

 

[SgtWoodsy]

Honestly, if she's qualified, I don't see the problem. I think a few of the kids did though.

 

[Minwu]

"We even had kids who were referring to her by her stage name in class, from catcalls in the back," DeLapp said.

who the fuck would do this though ugh


it really sounds like she isn't the one getting in the way of effective teaching lol

 

[ChronusGreed]

If she's good as a teacher wouldn't be a problem for the students, but I think that if the parents heard about this, they would fall over the school and it would be a problem to the school. I think they tryed to avoid that... Unfair with the teacher, but what would we do in they place?



PS: I keep thinking about those porn movies where the teacher bang with the students, I don't know why... XD

 

[blarajan]

If I was in middle school, and knew my teacher was a pornstar, I doubt I'd be able to focus either. I think the decision sucked, but that information would be entirely disruptive to a middle school classroom environment, so it's up to the administration whether or not they want that teacher. "tough shit" I guess.

 

[oSeasons]

Probably the right decision. The students wouldn't be able to take her seriously knowing that they can google her naked

 

[TheValkyries]

The students wouldn't be able to take her seriously knowing that they can google her naked

And why not?

Having had this teacher, and knowing there were porn videos of her on the internet, I can personally confirm that it was not a disruption for myself, nor for any of my classmates. This obviously wouldn't be the case for every immature child she may have taught. However it's worth noting, if there was a disruption she could not respond to it because the school would not have her back in the situation. If society and the school did have her back, she would've been perfectly at ease to openly address the issue. The kids catcalling her stage name at her in class would earn an instant detention, as that form of disrespect would deserve. Instead, society DOES judge her, and does NOT have her back. Instead she will forever be plagued by her youthful actions


And let's face it, should she be judged forever because of decisions she made as a youth? Yes, she can't take it back, but should she have to? I see this as a problem in modern society in that we're holding people to rather absurd standards of conduct. Any transgression to the common mode at all is a condemnation for the rest of the transgressor's life. Be it a video of a black man telling a humorous story about a seemingly-racist field trip from his childhood, a private joking power-point dissertation about a girl's college sexual conquests being leaked to the internet, or a teacher who had once done porn. These people are constantly being judged for things done in youth. To subscribe to an ideology of such comprehensive perfection in terms of conduct is, in my eyes, utterly naive and foolish. Should perfection truly be our standard?

 

[Coronis]

All I see here is ridiculous discrimination. Her past as a pornographic actress doesn't effect her teaching ability. If she's a good teacher, why fire her?

 

[cocoon]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162...ed-calif-teacher-with-porn-past-loses-appeal/

This is currently the most trending story on Yahoo.

Well, that's a great place to keep informed on current events.

Anyway, for the most part, stupid kids do what the adults around them do, and are greatly influenced by the adult figures in their lives. Having said that, I don't think a pornstar would be the best role model to a kid and would take the learning environment out of the classroom. However, if the private life of the said teacher is kept under raps(no mentions of it, or gossip from the students) and the teacher behaves appropriately and can do their job, I think taking away their job on the grounds of their history is in a sense, discriminatory. Really though, the mistakes you made in the past will come back to bite you, the teacher probably should have expected this. *shrugs*

 

[alamaster]

After viewing one of her videos, I don't think that I'd be able to take her seriously either

 

[Shining_Latios]

To be honest, kids would actually pay attention to class (or the guys at least).

 

[Fishy]

if you say that you wouldn't be able to take a teacher seriously because you saw her having sex with someone in a video, how on EARTH do you take any of your partners seriously, having fucked them personally and seen every bit of how they are in a sexual environment?

it's entirely discriminate and silly to judge a teacher's ability to teach because of decisions she made years ago to star in pornography. the fact that she's a woman doesn't help - i doubt a man that had a career in pornography who wanted to be a teacher would have as much trouble trying to be taken seriously. however, considering the maturity level of middle school students (and lots of students in general with how sexuality is conditioned into them/society as something to almost always be ashamed of when expressing openly) it's a situation the teacher is just unable to overcome.

should she be fired because of working in x even though she wants to work in y? well, of course not! x is in the past. y is completely different, and she's completely qualified. wait, x=pornography? sorry, pack your bags professor slut. maybe she can teach sex ed??

i think the best thing she could do is openly talk about her past - making it clear that she doesn't view what she did in the past as some looming shadow forever clouding her future - if she could show her students that she embraces her past, as every bit of it (pornography related or not) led up to where she is now in her teaching career, it wouldn't be such a big deal. it's like an adult/student bully complex unfortunately - express that you're not ashamed of whatever it is they're trying to put you down for, and they won't feel they have power over her by being like "ha! i saw you naked having sex!! you're not a human being anymore!!"

 

[jrp]

Just another example of how stupid modern society is.

As long as the teacher is effective at their job, they should be allowed to teach. I've encountered plenty of shitty tenured teachers that can't teach for shit

 

[Woodchuck]

...was fired in April from her job as a science teacher at Haydock Intermediate School in Oxnard after online videos of her in porn were discovered by students and teachers.

that's a fantastic faculty there. is it just me or is this an example of people's tendencies to try and punish others according to their personal beliefs that are irrelevant to the actual situation?

obviously i have no idea what the faculty there is actually like but actively seeking porn videos of a colleague doesn't at a glance seem to be behavior fostered by a good work environment

 

[ssbbm]

they could have just been looking up random porn and then found her!

maybe

also the point is that the teacher might not be able to teach effectively because she has no sense of "authority" because of her porny past

itd kinda be like if your class found out that your male teacher used to work at a gay bar: the whole sense of teacher - student dynamics would be completely wack and im pretty sure itd take somethingr eally strong to clear out that image of your teacher with a g string out of your mind!

also @ fishy im pretty sure a male with a past in porn would have the exact same issue LOL

EDIT: a good parallel would be for somebody who lived a life of crime then wanted to repent and become a good teacher - there would be public outcry if his past was discovered. obviously porn != crime but it has the same effect (at least for middle schoolers) in your viewing of the maturity of the individual!

im not saying that i don't support her - if i was her id be fucking outraged because she is in the right legally and, if von is right, then her teaching skills are unhindered by her porn. however, if her past did hinder her teaching skills (regardless of whether it's because middle schoolers are too immature to take her seriously) then she should be fired.

 

[Shame That]

One can't help but wonder if she even had a glimmer of thought, or hope, as to her future career as a teacher when she made that earlier decision. I mean, it wasn't entirely the sensible thing to do... if your local Doctor knew that smoking killed back when it was considered safe, but still chose to START smoking, you'd feel a bit uneasy about seeing him. It's not just that he made the wrong decision when he was younger, it's that he went into a job where such a thing could even be considered hypocritical (likewise, don't corrupt the innocence of the children... if they have any).

That being said, it was perfectly legal and I'd have to say I'm on her side. Everybody has a past; some of us just have a more "tainted" past than the others.

 

[Chou Toshio]

It's the stupidity/immaturity of middle school children that makes this situation awful.

While it's true that, ethically speaking, none of the fault lies with miss Halas, but the fact is that she has been rendered ineffective as a teacher--yes because middle school kids are dumb/immature, yes it's their fault. However, you can't make middle school children suddenly not dumb/immature. They are what they are, and her effectiveness in a teaching role is compromised because-- kids are kids. You can't really "fix" that.

As awful and dumb as the conduct directed at Miss Halas was, I don't think middle school kids at any other school would have handled the situation better.

It really sucks, because under most employment situations, her rights should be protected. However, there's a real logistics problem here-- I'd say this case is more atune with a construction worker injuring his back, and a doctor telling him he'll never be able to lift heavy objects again.

I'd say this isn't an ethical issue-- ethics really should be on her side. However, can a former porn star really command respect, control, and functional discourse over a class of 15+ 12-14 year olds? I highly doubt it.

I hate to say it, but if I remember myself as a 13 year old boy-- if I could watch videos of my sexy science teacher getting plunked at the touch of a button, that would have some serious negative effects on my work in that class.

 

[Al_Alchemist]

i doubt a man that had a career in pornography who wanted to be a teacher would have as much trouble trying to be taken seriously.

Actually Fishy, there were a few stories about male teachers who had done porn or were a stripper, etc. who had lost their jobs and got their appeals rejected as well. However, there could have been a lot more "stories" that luckily for them, didn't become stories when found out. Although I'm not sure why this particular story is more widespread than the other teachers that lost their job.

Basically society's negative views, the school protecting themselves from angry parents, and possibly all the other unfortunate complications with keeping a teacher on with that sort of history caused dismissal. Many kids would continue to disrespect her and make it harder for her to actually teach and lay down the law should they be disrespectful. Although TheValkyries solution could attempt to solve that part (although it would be hard especially when teaching american middle school children), the school would probably still take a lot of heat from some arguably unreasonable parents. It's unfortunate that it seems she didn't have her fellow teachers on her side either, as they were the ones who showed administrators her videos.

"Although (Halas') pornography career has concluded, the ongoing availability of her pornographic materials on the Internet will continue to impede her from being an effective teacher and respected colleague."

If it was solely the pornographic material circulating of her on the internet that they claim warranted her firing (because of the obstacles she would then have to face during her career), then I wonder what it would be like for teachers who had nude pictures of themselves circulating on the internet not necessarily for pornographic intentions. Would they also lose their job should an angry ex or something post nude pictures of them, if they had posed nude for some type of artwork or film, or say their head was very convincingly Photoshopped onto a naked body. Would there then be claims that students would be unable to focus when being taught by that teacher because they have seen pictures of them naked?

In response to the teacher's past affecting their "authority" to teach, I would find it embarrassing if I saw my teacher piss their pants in front of me one day, as I'm sure most of you would, but should they now be barred from teaching because they did something society would deem shameful (but not to the extent of something extreme like murder or etc. that should obviously prevent them their ability to teach students)? I don't think so, and although that isn't exactly an excellent analogy, most of those problems should be tackled through disciplinary actions like how TheValkyries described. They should still have a sense of authority because they are the teacher, regardless of their past (with in reason of course, ie murderers are usually unfit teachers).

Although I agree with chou in the point that it would be fucking hard for a former porn star to maintain control of a classroom full of modern american middle schoolers, probably causing the school a lot of grief.

 

[ssbbm]

there's a difference between sexting / nudes and professional porn, much like there's a difference between casual sex and prostitution (if we disregard the illegality).

i know that you admitted that that analogy wasnt the best, but there really is a big difference between pissing your pants and doing porn. in the eyes of a lot of society (especially if youre a middle schooler) porn (or, at least, "professional porn") is just as taboo as murder, which is why she really cant command authority.

 

[Al_Alchemist]

there's a difference between sexting / nudes and professional porn, much like there's a difference between casual sex and prostitution (if we disregard the illegality).

i know that you admitted that that analogy wasnt the best, but there really is a big difference between pissing your pants and doing porn. in the eyes of a lot of society (especially if youre a middle schooler) porn (or, at least, "professional porn") is just as taboo as murder, which is why she really cant command authority.

What if it was something like a home sex video that was released by an angry ex, should that be just enough to make it too difficult for students to be taught by her as opposed to a naked photo of her? Not to badger you, but how exactly is this line drawn when considering the immaturity of students or where society deems that she has done things that make it too inappropriate for her to teach?

Although honestly it probably would come down to a case by case decision with how much grief the school would be willing to deal with and how well the teacher would still be able to teach, based on their own abilities vs the complications..

 

[MrIndigo]

This is sad.

I dislike the judge's comments - they don't seem like judgement relating to the law, and much more of a judgment relating to the judges' collective distastes for sex work.

 

[elcheeso]

So wait, porn is as taboo as murder for 13 year olds? So 13 year olds aren't prone to looking up porn videos... or are you suggesting that 13 year olds watch videos of actual murders just as often as they look up porn, and if a murdered person were still alive to work they wouldn't command the respect of anyone and wouldn't be able to work as teachers? What?

Seriously. We shouldn't be acting like doing pornography is something shameful, and we sure as hell shouldn't be supporting the unfair firing of someone who is just trying to do their job. 13 year olds aren't capable of respect in general, don't try and use that shit as an excuse. It's just a matter of getting them to shut the fuck up. Firing her only sends the message to these kids that harassing people who have worked in porn before are somehow in the wrong and that their harassment is not only acceptable, but effective in screwing around with them, rendering their education and training completely useless.

I feel really sorry for those of you who think punishing the victim of harassment is appropriate in this situation. "Sorry lady, those 9 months of your life have made you completely unemployable, hope you enjoy being forced back into the industry you weren't particularly happy to be a part of!"

 

[Chou Toshio]

On principle, I absolutely want to agree elcheeso. However...

Getting lip for being an annoying teacher, and facing unending harassment and open misconduct in class for having been a porn star are totally different situations. What you are facing is not one episode of needed discipline, but an endless firefight. The videos will not go away (especially with all the free streaming sights, and the amount of attention this case has gotten), and each incoming class will get the "Hey, you know that sexy Miss Halas, you can watch her fuck at xxxvids.com dude." Each class causing drama over this, and each class having their education impeded by disrespect/awkwardness/drama/outburts/harassment/etc.

Does trying trying to force middle school kids to behave and follow proper conduct in a class taught by a young woman whom they've all watched fuck online sound like a feasible solution to this situation?

That said, I'd be all for a culture more supportive of porn and open sexuality; however I'm just trying to be realistic.