The Determining Factors of Getting Into your College of Choice

[Bam]

So I was on the computer just a while ago, trying to learn the musical modes (I can play well, but don't know theory for squat - http://youtube.com/user/StudentOfBass shameless advertising ftw), and my dad walks in the room and starts going on a rant about how I should seriously consider not doing track next year because of how it affected my grades this year (for the record I got all As and Bs, but that apparently isn't good enough). Track is a huge part of my school and social life, and is pretty much the only reason that I feel good waking up a school day during the end of the school year. My father stated that no matter what my test scores were, if I didn't get good grades, then I wouldn't be able to get into college (are family makes decent income, but I have four siblings so I guess per person it's not that much compared to others).

Earlier this year when I took the PSATs, I scored the highest in my grade (I was a sophomore at the time and scored 398 out of 440, around 6 points away from getting the National Merit Scholarship). I'll be taking two AP classes next year, and even more my senior year. I fall in line in a similar matter with Tangerine (if you've read his thread on discipline) - I'm smart and can get As and Bs without too much work (although I do cram before finals), but am really just not disciplined to put forth the effort to get straight As. All the people who are GPA-smarter than me are there because of effort they've put into their schoolwork, and my dad seems to think that the fact that I can outscore anybody in the school doesn't matter.

I'm not trying to come off as cocky, and I'm sorry if it seems that way. The point is, neither I nor my dad really know what it takes to get into a decent college, let alone your college of choice. From what I've read around here, it seems that test scores matter more than overall GPA, but I could be wrong (I also have been reading "A Millionaire Mind" at work, and it points out how flawed our school system is - like 99% of our nation's millionaires were average students in high school and went to average colleges, but worked their tails off to get where they are today).

Obviously, if you're getting into a college for football or another sport, then you need to be good at that sport. If you're going for a specific field, then going to a trade school no doubt helps. This thread is here to help me (and everybody else in my position), the smart-but-unmotivated guy who doesn't really know what he wants to do in his future find out how and what he can do to get into that college of choice when he finally finds out.

Some notable issues:
- Do grades or test scores get you into college, or both? If both, then which plays a larger role?
- Do you find that putting in the extra effort really helps out in the long run if you can get by with "above average" (90% of the high-school students in our district flunked math, it hit the local papers really hard) without that much trouble.
- If so, I'd appreciate any real life examples or experiences that you could use to illustrate your point. If not, is "getting by" worth all the stress that comes along with it?
- What other things can one do to help insure getting into their college of choice?

Thanks for reading the thread and hopefully replying.

/quit I'm n00b xD

 

[Tangerine]

I'm pretty sure one of the biggest factors of me getting into my University was because of my recommendations and my Interview. There are quite a few universities that put great weight into Interview. IIRC, GPA/Class Rank, Recommendations, Extra Curricular, Test Scores, etc.

I'm pretty much of the impression as long as you're over top 10% or top 5%, colleges will look at it the same, your GPA doesn't matter as much as the "level" of courses you took (for example I took 7 AP courses my Senior year)

I'd honestly practice putting in effort now so "yes putting in effort is worth it" so you dont end up wasting money like I am in college :P

 

[Caelum]

I'm going to college in the fall and I have a father similar to yours so I thought I'd make a comment.

So I was on the computer just a while ago, trying to learn the musical modes (I can play well, but don't know theory for squat - http://youtube.com/user/StudentOfBass shameless advertising ftw), and my dad walks in the room and starts going on a rant about how I should seriously consider not doing track next year because of how it affected my grades this year (for the record I got all As and Bs, but that apparently isn't good enough). Track is a huge part of my school and social life, and is pretty much the only reason that I feel good waking up a school day during the end of the school year. My father stated that no matter what my test scores were, if I didn't get good grades, then I wouldn't be able to get into college (are family makes decent income, but I have four siblings so I guess per person it's not that much compared to others).

Don't quit track! Your dad has a point about keeping your grades up (my sports were swimming and basketball) but in your own words you said that track was "the only reason that I feel good waking up a school day." If really that is the best part of your school life and you gave that up, are you really going to do that great in school? Yeah, you have to keep your grades up but from your description I'm not sure if that would really make you do better because it seems like track is more than just a hobby for you. Also, remember, colleges do take into account extracurriculars and sports in your application.

Earlier this year when I took the PSATs, I scored the highest in my grade (I was a sophomore at the time and scored 398 out of 440, around 6 points away from getting the National Merit Scholarship). I'll be taking two AP classes next year, and even more my senior year. I fall in line in a similar matter with Tangerine (if you've read his thread on discipline) - I'm smart and can get As and Bs without too much work (although I do cram before finals), but am really just not disciplined to put forth the effort to get straight As. All the people who are GPA-smarter than me are there because of effort they've put into their schoolwork, and my dad seems to think that the fact that I can outscore anybody in the school doesn't matter.

I'm in a similar boat. I get A's on basically every test I take, but then I don't turn in the homework or I turn it in late and end up averaging around an A- or B in the class. I'm going to have to disagree with your dads thinking, obviously grades play a big role but test scores do as well. It's a balance really and I think colleges will weigh them fairly. By the way, nice scores on your PSAT's.

I'm not trying to come off as cocky, and I'm sorry if it seems that way. The point is, neither I nor my dad really know what it takes to get into a decent college, let alone your college of choice. From what I've read around here, it seems that test scores matter more than overall GPA, but I could be wrong (I also have been reading "A Millionaire Mind" at work, and it points out how flawed our school system is - like 99% of our nation's millionaires were average students in high school and went to average colleges, but worked their tails off to get where they are today).

You're not coming off as cocky. I agree the school system is inherently flawed with grade inflation and the chaos of system but that's not important. There are A LOT of colleges out there. Maybe you'll not get into your "preferred" school, but you can into one that is pretty damn close to it. Also, just my opinion, test scores reflect a person intelligence far more than grades. With all the grade inflation and effort-driven academics (i.e. working till 2:00 am to pull off that A you got in Bio) I don't think grades reflect knowledge or intellect anymore.

Obviously, if you're getting into a college for football or another sport, then you need to be good at that sport. If you're going for a specific field, then going to a trade school no doubt helps. This thread is here to help me (and everybody else in my position), the smart-but-unmotivated guy who doesn't really know what he wants to do in his future find out how and what he can do to get into that college of choice when he finally finds out.

I don't think you're "unmotivated" per say. From this thread it sounds more like you were motivated towards something else, track, rather than school. You still obviously have motivation, it's just toward something else rather than school. You probably have to try to fit a balance between motivation in school and track (something I can't say I really accomplished well in high school).

Some notable issues:
- Do grades or test scores get you into college, or both? If both, then which plays a larger role?

Both. For your second question, in my experience at least, it depends on the college. I think a lot of schools weigh test scores more than others but many look at grades more. It really depends on the school. If it's anything, I graduated with a GPA of 3.4 (freshman/sophmore=very, very lazy) but had like a 2380/2400 (something like that) on my SAT but I'm going to Columbia University. I think that would be an example where they weighted my test scores more than my grades

- Do you find that putting in the extra effort really helps out in the long run if you can get by with "above average" (90% of the high-school students in our district flunked math, it hit the local papers really hard) without that much trouble.

It depends. If you want the A, you have to put in the effort. If you don't think it's worth it, why bother?

- If so, I'd appreciate any real life examples or experiences that you could use to illustrate your point. If not, is "getting by" worth all the stress that comes along with it?

You seem to be in alright position to me, your obviously pretty stressed about it (I think we all were at your stage in the game). From the sound of it, you sound smart enough that you wouldn't have to put in as much effort as a lot of your peers. Maybe just give up that television program you like, or that book you wanted to finish, or hanging out with your friends that night or something just to put in a bit more work. You almost make the assumption that to get the "A" you have to either go 100% or none at all. I don't think that's the case and with even maybe 40%, rather than 90%, you could get those As.

- What other things can one do to help insure getting into their college of choice?

Extracurriculars are great (including track!). AP/Honors classes help too. Colleges look more favorably upon taking AP Classes and getting a B as opposed to taking something easy and getting an A in it. I took a good amount of AP classes, which I think also helped me get in.

Thanks for reading the thread and hopefully replying.

/quit I'm n00b xD

I just have to say, I don't think you need to give up track. In fact, I think that would actually be bad for you at this point, it would probably decrease your motivation to do school work. I sometimes wish I would have done more in high school and maybe given up that late party the night before a project was due , but I think I might have actually done myself harm had I given up something I really liked about school like swimming (despite those shit 5:00 am practices) or basketball. I don't know, I think you should probably put in as much effort as you can, without giving up what you love. Also, I'd recommend talking to a counselor at your school because they might know the answer to the questions about tests/grades etc. much better than I or anyone else would here.

Good luck.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

GPA and SAT scores (or ACT scores if the college accepts them in lieu of SAT scores) are factors to a certain extent in that most colleges will eliminate you if you're below a certain threshold, which is around 3.0-3.5 for GPA. (It's harder to pinpoint this for SAT scores because a lot of schools are starting to look at the score for each individual portion of the test and weigh the portions that correspond to your field of interest higher.) However, above a certain point extracurricular will make more of a difference than a few test points or a marginally higher GPA. Test scores take a slight backseat to GPA although in many cases the difference between the two is too narrow to pinpoint. SAT subject test scores matter significantly less and they function more of a tiebreaker than anything.

- Do you find that putting in the extra effort really helps out in the long run if you can get by with "above average" (90% of the high-school students in our district flunked math, it hit the local papers really hard) without that much trouble.

Thing is, colleges don't compare you to other kids in your district (except when looking at stuff like class rank); you're being compared to others on a nation-wide level. However, if your GPA and test scores are already above average then your efforts are probably better invested towards extra curricular activities than rather than bolstering your GPA or test cores.

About extra curricular activities: they help most when they correlate to your field of study. For example, if you're going to major in mechanical engineering, then participating in robotics competition would go further towards building your application than something like debate or mock trial. But really, I'd do what makes you happy, because you learn and perform best when you're doing something you like. If track is what makes you tick, then stay in it.

(I also have been reading "A Millionaire Mind" at work, and it points out how flawed our school system is - like 99% of our nation's millionaires were average students in high school and went to average colleges, but worked their tails off to get where they are today).

Being a millionaire isn't necessarily an impressive achievement; just don't have kids and dedicate the entirety of your efforts to your career (rather than a spouse, friends, or hobbies) and you'll have that much in the bank by the time you're middle-aged. Also, when colleges look at a kid with a 3.0 GPA (sub-par in their eyes), are they going to look at him as a potential investment billionaire? No, they'll probably regard him as a slacker who probably didn't put a lot into his studies and likely won't put a lot into his studies at the college level either.

- What other things can one do to help insure getting into their college of choice?

For you, getting into the college of your choice might not be as simple as getting an acceptance letter; it sounds like you're not especially affluent and will likely have to rely on scholarships for a good portion of your funding. If you're pulling A's and B's and score well on tests, acceptance shouldn't be an issue for you, I'd really funnel most of your energies towards extra-curricular activities which are likely to be good scholarship-garnering tools.

- Do you find that putting in the extra effort really helps out in the long run if you can get by with "above average" (90% of the high-school students in our district flunked math, it hit the local papers really hard) without that much trouble.

If "putting in extra effort" means spending less time on your game console, then it will probably be beneficial. If it means dropping track or something, then it's probably not worth it.

 

[Surgo]

I'm pretty sure one of the biggest factors of me getting into my University was because of my recommendations and my Interview.

By the same token, I fucking nailed my interview and didn't get into the college I wanted to go to.

Don't neglect anything, the lesson is. But it seems like you aren't neglecting anything.

 

[goldursaring]

Guessing, you're a sophmore. Dropping track now, probably won't help you get into college, in fact it's likely to hurt, giving the impression to colleges that you're giving up on something. At best, one person interviews you, this person then submits a recommendation. Everything is cold and mechanical, there is little of "you" in the admissions process. People sit around and evaluate individuals based on certain criteria, it's impersonal and through it they try to find who "you" are and what you offer the school.

Giving up track, gives up something that makes unique, and potentially a stand-out amongst others. There are college track teams, I don't know if you're at the level they expect, but that's not the only reason they'd be interested in a track team member. Track stands out amongst the others who simply get straight A's, nothing separates them from the other. It's those they notice, that they pick.

Colleges see your transcript, the cold numbers tend to give a "story" about you. I had a teacher tell me once, that they prefer to see improvement. A's and B's that turn to straight A's, give the impression of intellectual development. The numbers are cold, but there may be a tale to them.

They will see your SATs, which are aptitude test, or a criteria of your potential. High SATs, good grades, suggest you're applying yourself.

Your school should send a school report, it's during this time that they can explain grading philosophies and the likes, to explain why your A is different from the A of the person two states over.

- Do grades or test scores get you into college, or both? If both, then which plays a larger role?
Your transcript is sent, you can request to see a copy of your current transcript. Grades play a bigger role, reflecting your ability in an educational environment. SATs have to be sent to the school, which most require.

- Do you find that putting in the extra effort really helps out in the long run if you can get by with "above average" (90% of the high-school students in our district flunked math, it hit the local papers really hard) without that much trouble.
It depends on what you want to do. More often then not, yes it does. Is your plan 4 years of college and then working? Or do you plan something more academically oriented (graduate school)? Going the second way, means once again you have to distinguish yourself and the schools aren't inclined to select only people from certain schools. Your choice could be to be the big fish in a small pond, or a fish in a big pond.

- If so, I'd appreciate any real life examples or experiences that you could use to illustrate your point. If not, is "getting by" worth all the stress that comes along with it?
I know people who've gone to community colleges and then go to more prestigious graduate programs (Harvard, Georgetown etc.).

- What other things can one do to help insure getting into their college of choice?
Be unique, but be desirable. Showcase an interest in the field of study you want to (if you're into Comp Sci, take the Comp Sci courses your school offers and consider joining a Comp Sci club), find something relating to the field you want to study. Volunteer work over the summer can be a big plus, for just about everything.

 

[SynysterCola]

- Do grades or test scores get you into college, or both? If both, then which plays a larger role?
My personal experience says grades play a larger role. It shows 4 years of work as opposed to 4 hours of taking a test. Of course don't blow off your SATs.

- Do you find that putting in the extra effort really helps out in the long run if you can get by with "above average" (90% of the high-school students in our district flunked math, it hit the local papers really hard) without that much trouble.
Yes. If anything it builds work ethics. Just because you can cruise through high school doesn't mean you can do the same in college.

- If so, I'd appreciate any real life examples or experiences that you could use to illustrate your point. If not, is "getting by" worth all the stress that comes along with it?
Well I use to work just enough to get by, and then when I started college, reality hit me...REALLY hard.

- What other things can one do to help insure getting into their college of choice?
Having a passion! Showing colleges you are human, that you have interests. You are doing track. stick with it. If it is a passion it will show colleges you are a well rounded person, not just a book worm.

Another thing is if you have any circumstances that affected you, LET THE COLLEGES KNOW. It can be a way to explain yourself if you had a slump in your grades for example (this happened to me).

 

[hbdragon88]

don't skip track. It makes you come off as very well-rounded. they want people who get good grades and have a good social life. At least I'm pretty sure they rate that just as highly as great grades.

to be honest, I really didn't care that much for college. I applied to four UCs/CSUs (based on distance and whether they offered journalism) and just let it fly. I had a decent GPA (3.5), nothing spectacular, no social life, and few extracircular activities. I like the school I'm at now, but it wasn't as if I poured my whole life into aiming for it.

 

[Kagster123]

All this talk is scaring me. Is 3.0 really the cut-off point? Oh crap, i'm in for a world of hurt next year. :(

 

[hbdragon88]

All this talk is scaring me. Is 3.0 really the cut-off point? Oh crap, i'm in for a world of hurt next year. :(

don't sweat it. You can always go to community college and transfer from there into your college of choice. Every higher-up in high school was all stressing it's OK to go to community college, that it was cheaper, and that it wouldn't show up on your diploma that "so-and-so went to so-and-so college before graduating."

 

[Blln]

I think I'm in a very similar position to you. I'm a Sophomore also, and have always managed A- grades at a very tough school without requiring too much effort. I know I probably should be, but I'm not really too worried about the college process. From what I've heard from seniors who went through this already, and from my college advisor, it really is a big combination of factors.

I've been thinking about this stuff alot recently, but for now I'm feeling pretty good about my odds - I have an A- in every class, which is good but could be better, I'm going to try to bring a few of those up next year, I'm planning to take two APs and an honors class next year, and then I think I'm just generally a very good standardized test taker, so I'm not too worried about the SAT, (and I got a 790 on the Bio SAT2, but I don't know how important that is lol).

So basically, I think I come across as pretty apealling to colleges, its just when it comes to the best colleges, it seems A-'s just don't cut it when there are all these crazy kids studying 6 hours a night and getting straight A+'s... so we'll see how that ends up. Next year I think I might try to put a little more effort into my school work, I think it is probably worth it. I know exactly what you mean about being smarter than alot of the perfect GPA kids, but colleges don't care about that. They just look at a list of numbers and see one kid has a 3.9, one kid has a 3.5, and that's that. Doing work really sucks, but I think in the end it's probably worth it.

As for extracurricular activities, I think they are very important, but not more important than grades or SAT scores. I'm not really too worried about my extracurriculars either, mostly because I really enjoy them and have managed to balance them well (I swim, play water polo, play classical piano, and play piano in a jazz combo, (and I started a ska band but I don't know if colleges will care about that lol)), so yeah, I think the key to extracurriculars is to pick one or two things, and just get into them, like it sounds like you have with track. I definitely wouldn't drop track, I mean, I doubt it would really help your grades that much, and it is an important part of your resume.

So yeah, we are in similar positions. As far as I can see, you just need to figure out a good mix of grades, SAT scores, and extracurriculars, which to me it sounds like you have. If you can just push a few of those A-'s up to A's, I think you will have no problem getting into wherever you want to go.

And lastly, it always helps to know someone. I mean, it's fucked up, but it really, really does help

 

[Kagster123]

don't sweat it. You can always go to community college and transfer from there into your college of choice. Every higher-up in high school was all stressing it's OK to go to community college, that it was cheaper, and that it wouldn't show up on your diploma that "so-and-so went to so-and-so college before graduating."

Wait, i have heard people say that. My brother went straight to a Cal State school from college, and said that i should go to a community college instead because your basically paying less for the same exact class. I always thought it was to good to be true though. :P

Thanks.

 

[animenagai]

i'm afraid my situation would not be of much help though that lazy intelligence does ring a bell :P. in new zealand, there really isn't a uni that's rated higher than another, so i just went to the local one. would've been different if i had a clear idea of what i would be studying though.

 

[Realgar]

I'm gonna preface this by saying that if you're serious about college, you need the extra effort!

Okay, I applied to three colleges (Duke, Brown, and UNC honors), and got into all three.
(End brag time.)
The thing is, each college is looking for a certain type of student, so if a college doesn't take you, chances are good that you wouldn't like it anyway. For instance, I met kids who got into Duke and Harvard, but not Brown, or Brown and Princeton, but not Duke. These kids were all amazing; they just didn't fit the college's "profile" for the student they wanted.

My advice is to research first. Find a college that fits you, then continue to live up to that. Duke only takes kids that play sports. Brown wants kids with crazy/weird extracurrics. (BTW, usually, extracurrics are more important than SATs, so don't quit track!)

That being said, your overall GPA does matter, but a B in AP Bio is going to reflect better on you than an A in, say, art 1. (That being said, I did drop my high-level Spanish courses to take ceramics, and it didn't affect me any.) Still, try to get all A's no matter what. Princeton turns down math 800s all the time.

The one thing we all agree on, "we" meaning all the college overachievers, is that you need to pick something and stick with it. If you're on a team, be a captain. If you're in a club, be president. Colleges want to know that you have real interests and that you're working hard. That means that you absolutely can't just "get by." If you're serious about getting into the school you want, you need to be the top of everything.

An important application tip is to write well. Essays matter a lot, so don't listen to all the essay books and give them a dumb "5-paragraph" job. They want something that's fresh, that stands out, and that really reflects you as a person.
Good luck!
It's hard work, but it's really worth it. Promise!