Basically a reedition of this thread
(Edit: Scroll down to directly get into the proposals)
With the controversy around Dynamax not being implemented in Gen9NDAG (though this is also due to programming constraints), I believe we should take the new generation as an opportunity to try to define a sturdier policy for NatDex formats in general. In this post, i will go over two proposals to define a general framework around how each new generation should be handled by National Dex metagames. Keep in mind the purpose of this thread is NOT about tiering, but rather about how National Dex metagames are generally defined in the first place, before any kind of tiering action takes place in these metagames. In an attempt to make these two proposals as rigorous as possible, I will first introduce a couple of definitions. Note that the defined terms here might have been used with different meanings in different contexts - thus justifying the necessity of redefining them in the scope of this thread.
Aside from the proposals, this thread also is the opportunity for me to put the spotlight on some questions about what NatDex should allow/should not allow.
An important thing to keep in mind : ultimately, the goal of this thread is not to push for these proposals specifically, but try to construct a rigorous definition for National Dex, being consistent, coherent, and hopefully sustainable (we also do not want National Dex to become an uncodable mess in the future generations - by the way devs inputs about this would be appreciated).
A metagame is defined by two aspects:
Legalities
The legalities of a metagame are how it is defined in the teambuilder. In other terms, it is the set of allowed things in the given metagame. If I cannot bring Blissey or items in RBY, it is because of this gen's specific legalities. Stabmons is, for example, a metagame altering the legalities of the metagame. Something that can be legal or illegal from a legality point of view will be called an element.
Tiering could be seen as a way to artifically alter legalities of a tier ; however, this is not a topic relevant to this thread, so it doesn't really matter.
In-Battle Mechanics
The in-battle mechanics of a metagame are, in a nutshell, the behavior of every legal element of the metagame. Waterfall being a special move in RBY and being a physical move with a flinch chance in SM, Sand Stream setting permanent sand before gen6, or team preview being available after gen5, is a matter of in-battle mechanics. Following this definition, Dynamax is exclusively an in-battle mechanic that is not triggered by an element in the teambuilder, even though it can be modified by certain elements (like G-Max formes).
->Two metagames having the same legalities and in-battle mechanics are exactly the same, as you are allowed to bring the same things in both of them, and these things are going to behave the exact same way. In conclusion, these two concepts are sufficient to completely define a metagame, and they will be used as a base for my proposals.
Generational gimmicks
Generational gimmicks are important mechanics added in each generations, in the mainline games. This is a definition very relevant to the identity of National Dex.
Gen6: Mega-Stones and Mega-Evolution, Blue Orb, Red Orb and Primal forms
Gen7: Z-Moves
Gen8: Dynamax
Gen9: Terastal phenomenon
In practice, NatDex always went under the assumption that a Pokemon should not be able to run two generationnal gimmicks on the same set.
(Edit: i am aware that Primals can currently terastallize in gen9ndag while they cannot dynamax in gen8ndag ; this is one of the issues this thread aims to adress)
Key items are excluded from these definitions on purpose, as even if they can have an impact on the in-battle mechanics, they were never supposed to be transferrable in the first place, are not elements of the builder, cannot be disabled/enabled on purpose, and probably would not do anything if they were hacked in a game were they are not supposed to exist. However, proposal B works pretty much like you enabled every key item in NatDex - it just does not need the concept of key item to be properly defined.
Proposals
The two proposals mostly differ by the way they are handling generational gimmicks, in particular the ones that are an entire in-battle mechanic that do not need a particular element in the team to exist in-game (Dynamax, Terastal phenomenon).
Legalities:
Proposals A and B
In terms of legalities, both proposals preserve the status quo, which can be defined as the following:
National Dex assumes that every Pokemon and item available in a gen7+ mainline game is transferrable to the current gen's mainline games. If an unreleased past-gen Pokemon has coded movepool additions (such as SV Regieleki + Tera Blast), these additions will be added to its movepool.
(Questions: Should the unreleased movepools rule be kept? Is it that bad if the movepools additions are removed as the Pokemon is added to the game? What if the Pokemon is never released, will the movepool additions be removed once the generation ends? Or implement a "if it never existed, it shouldnt exist in NatDex" rule?
Should we keep the availability rule to gen7+? gen3+ would free gems, gen1+ would make gen2 movepools and some items such as berserk gene available.)
In-Battle Mechanics:
Proposal A and B:
Part of the status quo is preserved: if an element in not clickable (Pursuit, Hidden Power,...), not usable (Mega-Stones), illegal or straight up not present in the code, the element will either:
-If it is not present in the code OR coded to not work : the element will work like it did during the last generation it was available. Note that this include cases where the element needs a now unreachable condition (going through a certain event, getting a certain key item, etc...) in order to work.
-Otherwise, use the coded mechanics (Like how Battle Bond currently behaves in gen9nationaldex)
Proposal A:
National Dex only should try to emulate what the current gen would be if every pokemon, move, ability and item is transferrable, adding nothing else to the mix. There is no particular status given to generational gimmicks, meaning that Dynamax is nuked from gen9+, Terastallize from gen10+, and even Mega-Rayquaza in gen8+ (or gen9+ if we want to keep MRay in gen9nationaldexag for historical reasons) as dAscent Rayquaza is not able to Mega-Evolve in Sword&Shield.
EDIT: To make it clear, since it seems like some people missunderstood that part: as Z-Moves and Megas are carried by items, they are not removed by this proposal.
Proposal B:
National Dex should make an exception for generational gimmicks that are not carried by an element of the builder. This would mean that Dynamax and the Terastal phenomenon would be legal (except in tiers where they are banned).
(Edit: Scroll down to directly get into the proposals)
With the controversy around Dynamax not being implemented in Gen9NDAG (though this is also due to programming constraints), I believe we should take the new generation as an opportunity to try to define a sturdier policy for NatDex formats in general. In this post, i will go over two proposals to define a general framework around how each new generation should be handled by National Dex metagames. Keep in mind the purpose of this thread is NOT about tiering, but rather about how National Dex metagames are generally defined in the first place, before any kind of tiering action takes place in these metagames. In an attempt to make these two proposals as rigorous as possible, I will first introduce a couple of definitions. Note that the defined terms here might have been used with different meanings in different contexts - thus justifying the necessity of redefining them in the scope of this thread.
Aside from the proposals, this thread also is the opportunity for me to put the spotlight on some questions about what NatDex should allow/should not allow.
An important thing to keep in mind : ultimately, the goal of this thread is not to push for these proposals specifically, but try to construct a rigorous definition for National Dex, being consistent, coherent, and hopefully sustainable (we also do not want National Dex to become an uncodable mess in the future generations - by the way devs inputs about this would be appreciated).
A metagame is defined by two aspects:
Legalities
The legalities of a metagame are how it is defined in the teambuilder. In other terms, it is the set of allowed things in the given metagame. If I cannot bring Blissey or items in RBY, it is because of this gen's specific legalities. Stabmons is, for example, a metagame altering the legalities of the metagame. Something that can be legal or illegal from a legality point of view will be called an element.
Tiering could be seen as a way to artifically alter legalities of a tier ; however, this is not a topic relevant to this thread, so it doesn't really matter.
In-Battle Mechanics
The in-battle mechanics of a metagame are, in a nutshell, the behavior of every legal element of the metagame. Waterfall being a special move in RBY and being a physical move with a flinch chance in SM, Sand Stream setting permanent sand before gen6, or team preview being available after gen5, is a matter of in-battle mechanics. Following this definition, Dynamax is exclusively an in-battle mechanic that is not triggered by an element in the teambuilder, even though it can be modified by certain elements (like G-Max formes).
->Two metagames having the same legalities and in-battle mechanics are exactly the same, as you are allowed to bring the same things in both of them, and these things are going to behave the exact same way. In conclusion, these two concepts are sufficient to completely define a metagame, and they will be used as a base for my proposals.
Generational gimmicks
Generational gimmicks are important mechanics added in each generations, in the mainline games. This is a definition very relevant to the identity of National Dex.
Gen6: Mega-Stones and Mega-Evolution, Blue Orb, Red Orb and Primal forms
Gen7: Z-Moves
Gen8: Dynamax
Gen9: Terastal phenomenon
In practice, NatDex always went under the assumption that a Pokemon should not be able to run two generationnal gimmicks on the same set.
(Edit: i am aware that Primals can currently terastallize in gen9ndag while they cannot dynamax in gen8ndag ; this is one of the issues this thread aims to adress)
Key items are excluded from these definitions on purpose, as even if they can have an impact on the in-battle mechanics, they were never supposed to be transferrable in the first place, are not elements of the builder, cannot be disabled/enabled on purpose, and probably would not do anything if they were hacked in a game were they are not supposed to exist. However, proposal B works pretty much like you enabled every key item in NatDex - it just does not need the concept of key item to be properly defined.
Proposals
The two proposals mostly differ by the way they are handling generational gimmicks, in particular the ones that are an entire in-battle mechanic that do not need a particular element in the team to exist in-game (Dynamax, Terastal phenomenon).
Legalities:
Proposals A and B
In terms of legalities, both proposals preserve the status quo, which can be defined as the following:
National Dex assumes that every Pokemon and item available in a gen7+ mainline game is transferrable to the current gen's mainline games. If an unreleased past-gen Pokemon has coded movepool additions (such as SV Regieleki + Tera Blast), these additions will be added to its movepool.
(Questions: Should the unreleased movepools rule be kept? Is it that bad if the movepools additions are removed as the Pokemon is added to the game? What if the Pokemon is never released, will the movepool additions be removed once the generation ends? Or implement a "if it never existed, it shouldnt exist in NatDex" rule?
Should we keep the availability rule to gen7+? gen3+ would free gems, gen1+ would make gen2 movepools and some items such as berserk gene available.)
In-Battle Mechanics:
Proposal A and B:
Part of the status quo is preserved: if an element in not clickable (Pursuit, Hidden Power,...), not usable (Mega-Stones), illegal or straight up not present in the code, the element will either:
-If it is not present in the code OR coded to not work : the element will work like it did during the last generation it was available. Note that this include cases where the element needs a now unreachable condition (going through a certain event, getting a certain key item, etc...) in order to work.
-Otherwise, use the coded mechanics (Like how Battle Bond currently behaves in gen9nationaldex)
Proposal A:
National Dex only should try to emulate what the current gen would be if every pokemon, move, ability and item is transferrable, adding nothing else to the mix. There is no particular status given to generational gimmicks, meaning that Dynamax is nuked from gen9+, Terastallize from gen10+, and even Mega-Rayquaza in gen8+ (or gen9+ if we want to keep MRay in gen9nationaldexag for historical reasons) as dAscent Rayquaza is not able to Mega-Evolve in Sword&Shield.
EDIT: To make it clear, since it seems like some people missunderstood that part: as Z-Moves and Megas are carried by items, they are not removed by this proposal.
Proposal B:
National Dex should make an exception for generational gimmicks that are not carried by an element of the builder. This would mean that Dynamax and the Terastal phenomenon would be legal (except in tiers where they are banned).
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