The Underabused tier: Team Retirement - “The Suspect Squad” (UU)

[panamaxis]

Hey smogon, panamaxis here with a UU team this time. I hadn’t played UU before so I decided to get into it when the suspect testing started. For those of you who remember the start of the test, stall teams were everywhere. I myself didn’t want to stall, i wanted to use the raw power of the new offensive pokemon. So the basic idea I had was to abuse broken pokemon as much as possible. Bold = suspect.


This team peaked at #1. So, without further ado...

At a glance:

In depth:

Frosslass @ Focus Sash ---Checkmate---

Snow Cloak: Raises the pokemon’s evasion by one stage during hail.
Timid, 4 Def / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe

• Spikes
o Every offensive team needs entry hazards.

• Taunt
o Prevents the opponent from setting up their own entry hazards or whether. Combos well with Destiny Bond to force the opponent into killing frosslass

• Ice Beam
o I don’t use Ice Beam much its mainly for use against faster taunters like ambipom, crobat and Electrode. It’s also useful against weakened pokemon. A lot of people don’t expect frosslass to attack and consequently stay in with their honchkrow / staraptor, etc. only to be OHKOed.

• Destiny Bond
o Makes the opponent think twice before killing frosslass, often I get another layer of spikes just through the threat of destiny bond.

Description: Frosslass gets the ball rolling for me. I’m sure many of you have seen this set and know how it works. Basically the idea here is spike as much as possible, while taunting the opponent to prevent their set up. Taunt + Destiny Bond is “checkmate” for the opponent as their forced to kill frosslass and die or risk switching and letting me set up more entry hazards. Four Defence Evs instead of Hp to have a greater chance of surviving abomasnow's Wood Hammer + Ice Shard.

Staraptor @ Sharp Beak ---*raptor---

Intimidate: Lowers the opponents attack stage by one.
Adamant, 4Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

• Brave Bird
o High power and STAB.

• Close Combat
o Hits everything that Brave Bird can’t.

• Substitute
o Eases prediction and prevents status

• Roost
o Staraptor is deceptively bulky, especially with intimidate, and with roost, staraptor should stick around for a while.

Description: Probably the best set of one of the best pokemon UU has to offer. Brave Bird and Close Combat nearly 2HKO the entire metagame (spikes support makes this even easier) and offer perfect coverage on everything except Rotom. Substitute prevents status and eases prediction, while roost lets Staraptor heal up and come back in later for another round.

Crobat @ Leftovers ---Taunt---

Inner Focus: Prevents flinching
Modest, 38 hp / 252 Sp. Atk / 220 Spe

• Nasty Plot
o Due to Crobats often-overlooked defeses, it is quite easy to get a Nasty Plot. After just one boost, crobat is capable of OHKOing many common physical crobat counters such as steelix.

• Sludge Bomb
o Highest special move on crobat due to STAB. I discussed this with raikoulover and decided that the extra base power of sludge bomb was better then the 30% chance of flinch on air slash, but I’m willing to change it.

• Heatwave
o Provides great coverage with Sludge Bomb and absolutely wrecks the steel types that are so intent to wall crobat.

• Roost
o Crobat can take many hits with those awesome defenses. I don’t really find the need for a third attacking move and the recovery is greatly appreciated.

Description: Ok, seriously, who expects Plotbat. This thing is great as it lures out Registeel and Steelix who are 2HKOed and OHKOed respectively after a nasty plot. Crobat is bulky too and makes a nice counter to roserade after someone has absorbed the sleep (most likely relicanth). It makes a nice fighting counter and revenge killer. I chose a modest nature because the UU tier is significantly slower then then OU, so the extra power is of more use then the extra speed. With the Evs Crobat just misses out on outspeeding +speed natured 115s, and outspeeds base 110s by two points (so he also ends up outspeeding pokemon that aim to outspeed them by one point). I tried life orb, and like shaymin, I felt I was wasting all that bulk and it died too quickly.

Gallade @ Life Orb ---Lucario ---

Steadfast: Raises speed one stage when flinched
Adamant, 60 hp / 252 Atk / 196 Spe

• Swords Dance
o Boosts Gallades attack to insane levels, so much that it can 2HKO pretty much everything in UU and OHKO many more.

• Close Combat
o Main sweeping move with high power.

• Stone Edge
o Makes staraptor and crobat think twice about switching in. Stone Edge also 2HKOs Spiritomb after a SD so it can’t switch in safely either.

• Shadow Sneak
o For use against fast and frail threats such as espeon, frosslass and mismaigus. Priority is always nice, especially with the abundance of sub - berry sweepers.

Gallade is a true monster. With that great Special Defense stat it can set up on many special attackers and then tear apart the opponents team after a Swords Dance. Life Orb grants many KOs. Gallade is like the lucario of UU, if it gets a Swords Dance up, not much can stand up to its hits. This is the standard spread, but I gave it four more speed Evs to outspeed other Gallade's that use that spread.

Shaymin @ Leftovers ---Gaymin---

Natural Cure: Heals the pokemon’s status condition upon switching out.
Timid, 4 hp / 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spe

• Seed Flare
o Without a doubt the best grass move in the game. This is my main sweeping move and deals a TON of damage, even to pokemon that resist it. For example, staraptor is 2HKOed without Stealth Rocks (IIRC).

• Earth Power
o Hits fire types, registeel and is useful against raikou and before you say it yes, I do know neutral seed flare = super-effectiver earthpower, but raikou can pressure stall me if seed flare misses just once.

• Synthesis
o With those awesome defenses, recovery is obvious. So, you’re probably thinking why seed synthesis over rest? Weather screws synthesis over! True, but hail and sandstorm are the only everlasting weathers and hail is the only one of those common in UU. I think that most of you would agree with me that shaymin will never get a chance to rest when playing a good hail team, so synthesis is the logical option.

• Leech Seed
o Useful against chansey and registeel. Its also helpful to stall out pokemon such as mismagius and raikou if i can predict them using a move besides substitute. Definitely my least used move, so willing to change if there is a better option.

Description:The glue of my team, when in doubt, send shaymin out. With the same defenses as Celebi, shaymin can take quite a beating. Shaymin is my best shot against rain teams so I always fight to keep it alive. Seed flares Sp. Def drop is very handy and shaymin is a great switch into bulky waters that would otherwise plague my team. I've tried the life orb set and honestly it died too quickly and i was wasting all the bulk, so I just went with leftovers. With leech seed and synthesis it can also stall out a large portion of the metagame. I am honestly suprised shaymin isn’t a suspect...

Relicanth @ Leftovers ---ReliCANth---

Rock Head: Prevents recoil moves from damaging the user.
Adamant, 252 hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def

• Stealth Rock
o As I’m sure all of you know it’s a great move, but I’m not too disappointed if I fail to get it up, because I already have spikes.

• Head Smash
o Oh man, STAB headsmash is so insane. Deals around 40ish% to slowbro so if I have a couple of layers of spikes, not much is gonna like taking this, although it does miss quite a bit for me.

• Waterfall
o Secondary STAB with perfect accuracy, which is nice not always having to rely on head smash’s shaky accuracy.

• Earthquake
o I’d be willing to replace this as a neutral Head Smash is more powerful than a super-effective Earthquake, but its nice not to have to rely on head smash’s accuracy so much. Maybe Toxic could work?

Description: Relicanth ties up all the loose ends, countering many choiced fire users and checking staraptor and swellow. It can also take a STAB fighting attack and live, to give you an idea of its considerable bulk. Stealth Rock is always nice to have, but not necessary due to spikes support. It also stops Sunny Day teams from screwing my over with its 4x resistance to fire attacks (shaymin can take solar beams).

With the suspects being removed on UU it's time to retire this team. It's performed very well and I hope that I have inspired some of you to try offense in UU, it's very fun.

So, RMT.

 

[Havak]

Really good team, I didn't play enough UU at this stage (hence my not getting on the leaderboard or nominating Suspects) but I still had quite a number of games on my alt, so I'll give a bit of input.

I do think you're relatively weak to opposing Staraptor and Gallade, but let's face it, what offensive UU team isn't? (Or any UU team for that matter, hence them being Suspects). It's pretty evident that Froslass usually won't last long, and as soon as Relicanth has had to switch in twice it's likely to have fainted really. I say this because of residual damage, Staraptor's Close Combat and of course switching into the likes of Arcanine or even Blaziken often.

Gallade is less of a problem unless it manages to Substitute, as you can really hurt it with Staraptor on the revenge. As well as this, if it comes to it you can strike it with Seed Flare to break subs, or use your most obvious switch-in, Crobat (though I forsee this ruining your surprise of Nasty Plot if Gallade uses Substiute, which could be costly). Above all this, you can nick a KO with Shadow Sneak eventually. You have the majority of threats well in check, and you reached number 1 on the UU Ladder, so it's hard to see anything really 'wrong' with this team. However, has Calm Mind Espeon ever given you any grief?

I think I'm going to try this team out on UU if I get the chance (and if you'll let me), before the Suspects are removed. It's definitely convinced me to keep trying offense in UU, instead of resorting to stall. I'll try and get back to you if I get the chance to try it!

Great work, good read, thanks.

 

[-Marcel-]

Heya.

Nice team. I think this team is one of the most solid I've ever seen ha-ha. Relicanth fits in your team like crazy.

Whait a minut. Did you create this after our Sunny Day team? It has almost the same Pokés.=P

 

[LonelyNess]

This is really a great team. The only real complaint I have with it is its total lack of protection against the number one used Pokemon in the tier: Raikou. I will admit though, that it doesn't exactly have the easiest time switching in on any of your Pokemon. Froslass has Taunt to stop the set-up, Crobat will likely be plotted the turn it comes in (although I am not completely sure how much a Nasty Plot Sludge Bomb will do to the standard Calm Mind Raikou), Gallade wards it off with ridiculously powerful moves, you get what I'm trying to say here. Really the only semi-safe switch in it has is on Staraptor's Brave Birds that will do roughly 33% to the regular Calm Mind Raikou.

However, coming in on a revenge kill, particularly on your Staraptor, I can see major problems for this team. Really the only two Pokemon that can TAKE a hit from Raikou are Shaymin and Gallade, and the former has no business switching in because all Shaymin means to Raikou is "free Calm Minds!" Gallade has the special bulk, and the physical attacks to break a substitute, take a +1 Thunderbolt, and return with an OHKO via Close Combat, but it's all kind of shakey... especially because you are using Stone Edge as your coverage move. If you were using Ice Punch instead (it still breaks a Raikou sub) then your Raikou prevention would be way more consistent as you would be getting rid of the 80% chance that Raikou comes away from your Gallade with not only his Sub intact, but a dead opponent.

Other than changing to Ice Punch on Gallade, there's no a lot you can do without ruining the balance your team provides. Without changing an entire Pokemon, or tinkering with the physical / special properties of say... Shaymin (if you were to change it to a SD Shaymin, it would work quite nicely as a Raikou counter) you're going to have Raikou problems regardless.

 

[wildfire393]

I want to say that Air Slash is probably better than Sludge Bomb on Crobat. It's only resisted by three types instead of five (Steel/Rock/Electric versus Steel/Rock/Ground/Poison/Ghost), meaning the only threat it's possibly not as good against pretty much is Raikou (in terms of being resisted). In terms of Super Effectiveness, Poison only hits Grass, but Flying hits Grass, Fighting, and Bug. The ability to hit Gallade Super Effectively is a nice bonus, and picking off bugs never hurt either. It's better against opposing Crobat, Gallade, Frosslass, Spiritomb, Hariyama, etc. In addition, it's extra effect is significantly better, as vanilla poison is the worst status in the game, and a Flinch means you get another free hit on the opponent.

 

[TUskate]

I'm going to second LonelyNess and say the Raikou is trouble for this team. A ScarfRaikou can put your team in a world of hurt with Shaymin gone.

Seeing as I did battle this team a few times (boomerthecat on shoddy) I did manage to catch you in a rain dance sweep at least once. Perhaps to combat Rain Dance teams, while still providing a little utility you could use a Jolly Swift Swim Kabutops with Waterfall/X-Scissor/Stealth Rock/filler as a sort of anti-rain pokemon. I've used it on my non-rain teams and even with out a ton of bulk still takes choice scarf Typhlosion Eruptions wonderfully. This in place of Relicanth of course.

A little redundant though seeing as this team is going to be highly defunct in the very near future due to the suspects being removed from the ladder.

 

[Heysup]

I have always used offensive teams in all tiers, i just find it boring to Stall.

Well overall, it looks like a pretty good team, though people will only be surprised by Crobat once, and its easy to stop once you know its NP. Really Easy.

First Major weakness i noticed, Toxic Spikes. You have no grounded Poison type on your team, thats a must with Gallade (mainly for Gallade), Shaymin and Relicanth.

Easy Solution: Roserade over Shaymin.

Roserade can do the same thing Shaymin does, but it hits alot harder with 125 Base SAtk. More importantly, it soaks up Toxic Spikes, which are easily Set up against your Shaymin, Relicath and Staraptor (by Omastar/Cloyster/Nidoqueen/Drapion). Nidoqueen can set up against Gallade even.

Roserade also has sleep powder, which is pretty awesome for an Offensive team. All offensive teams need an Oh-shit! button.

Second problem i see is (as LN pointed out) a Raikou weakness (it can set up on Crobat and Shaymin rather easily). I dont see how you can fix this other than Changing a pokemon.

Scarfers in general will probably cause problems as well.

Nice team though, glad to see someone using offensive teams and doing well.

 

[LonelyNess]

First Major weakness i noticed, Toxic Spikes. You have no grounded Poison type on your team, thats a must with Gallade (mainly for Gallade), Shaymin and Relicanth.

Easy Solution: Roserade over Shaymin.

Roserade can do the same thing Shaymin does, but it hits alot harder with 125 Base SAtk. More importantly, it soaks up Toxic Spikes, which are easily Set up against your Shaymin, Relicath and Staraptor (by Omastar/Cloyster/Nidoqueen/Drapion). Nidoqueen can set up against Gallade even.

Roserade also has sleep powder, which is pretty awesome for an Offensive team. All offensive teams need an Oh-shit! button.

Actually, a Shaymin will outdamage a Roserade unless Roserade uses Leaf Storm because of the higher Base Power of Seed Flare versus Energy Ball. Also, Shaymin will outdamage Roserade over two turns if Roserade does use Leaf Storm.

For example:

Shaymin's Seed Flare vs. Cloyster: 299 Atk vs 126 Def & 304 HP (120 Base Power): 612 - 722 (201.32% - 237.50%)
Roserade's Energy Ball vs. Cloyster: 349 Atk vs 126 Def & 304 HP (80 Base Power): 476 - 564 (156.58% - 185.53%)

Not to mention that Shaymin gets Earth Power / Air Slash where Roserade's coverage movepool alongside its Grass STAB is well... it's pretty pitiful.

And honestly, I don't really see that big of a problem with Toxic Spikes to begin with. His main sweeping force is that of Staraptor, not really Gallade / Relicanth... The former acts more like the team's wall breaker more than the "win condition sweeper."

Also, no one is setting up Toxic Spikes against Shaymin with the exception of opposing Roserades (although bringing in a Roserade against this team means a nice free switch to Staraptor or Crobat, so I dont' really see the problem in letting opposing Roserades in)... especially not the Pokemon you mentioned as they are all either OHKOd / 2HKOd by Seed Flare or Earth Power.

 

[Heysup]

Actually, a Shaymin will outdamage a Roserade unless Roserade uses Leaf Storm because of the higher Base Power of Seed Flare versus Energy Ball. Also, Shaymin will outdamage Roserade over two turns if Roserade does use Leaf Storm.

For example:

Shaymin's Seed Flare vs. Cloyster: 299 Atk vs 126 Def & 304 HP (120 Base Power): 612 - 722 (201.32% - 237.50%)
Roserade's Energy Ball vs. Cloyster: 349 Atk vs 126 Def & 304 HP (80 Base Power): 476 - 564 (156.58% - 185.53%)

Not to mention that Shaymin gets Earth Power / Air Slash where Roserade's coverage movepool alongside its Grass STAB is well... it's pretty pitiful.

And honestly, I don't really see that big of a problem with Toxic Spikes to begin with. His main sweeping force is that of Staraptor, not really Gallade / Relicanth... The former acts more like the team's wall breaker more than the "win condition sweeper."

Also, no one is setting up Toxic Spikes against Shaymin with the exception of opposing Roserades (although bringing in a Roserade against this team means a nice free switch to Staraptor or Crobat, so I dont' really see the problem in letting opposing Roserades in)... especially not the Pokemon you mentioned as they are all either OHKOd / 2HKOd by Seed Flare or Earth Power.

Roserade's coverage isnt terrible, and Crobat/Staraptor are not free switch ins, the former gets hit by HP Ice, and the latter gets hit by Sludge bomb, Leaf Storm, OR HP Ice for heavy damage (OHKO i think), especially with Poison hitting opposing Grass types. But i see your point with Shaymin's Earth Power.

Roserade is a free switch in to Shaymin, and can set up Tspikes or regular spikes (all teams hate that). Toxic Spikes gives Gallade like 3 Attacks (complete guess, but something along those lines) assuming he gets hit with a Weak Special attack, Swords Dances, and outspeeds and OHKOs three Pokemon (not very likely scenario).

To remedie this, why dont you just put Psychic over Leech Seed (instead of Roserade>Shaymin)?

Psychic hits Crobat as well, which walls your Shaymin. You said you dont use Leech Seed very much anyway.

 

[never_again]

forgive me for being a noob but when are the suspects actually being banned from UU?

Anyways, I could tell just by glancing at the team that it works well, although there are 2 things that I wonder how you even got past.

One of them is Raikou. Granted, you dont give it much time to Calm Mind, but even without a Calm Mind, its still faster than ur entire team besides Crobat who cant really do much to it.

I honestly dont think Relicanth does much for your team, so perhaps you can go with Registeel, but if thats too stallish for you, you can even try Mix Camerupt. Camerupt is seriously one of the more overlooked pokes in UU.

The other thing that your team is a bit shaky about is Choice Scarf Blaziken, it can literally beat ur entire team switching in and out and dishing out Flare Blitz, or Superpower if they know you have a Relicanth(lol)

Anyways, I dont suppose any of this actually means anything since your retiring it, but Im just wondering how you dealt with those 2 threats?

 

[panamaxis]

@Havak, go ahead and try the team. I'm glad I've inspired you.

With the raikou problem, yeah it is very annoying. I usually switch shaymin in on a thunderbolt and leech seed on the CM or earthpower if its subs. Yes is requires prediction and it is a big threat, but honestly what offensive team doesn't have trouble with raikou?

With the toxic spikes weakness. Frosslass stops them being set up on turn 1, roserade is really the only troublesome toxic spiker, coming in on shaymin. Apart from roserade, the other team won't really have time to set them up, because that is valuable time for me to set up with my own (ie. gallade and staraptor who CAN and WILL sweep teams).

Relicanth is needed for a flying / normal resist. It used to be blaziken, but crobat just gave my team too much grief. I tried mix camerupt actually, but it was just too slow for men even with rock polish it doesn't get the chance to set up much. Also I don't need the suprise of nasty plot bat for it to work, this thing can dismantle stall teams. Chansey needs thunder-wave to stop it and most carry toxic. After +6 Crobat will 2HKO it with sludgebomb.

Psychic on Shaymin could be better to ward off roserades, nice suggestion.

@Da Marcell, I made this team much before sunny day, but I added relicanth to this team, after we made that team.

How do I deal with scarf blaziken? It all depends on what it comes in against. Predict the superpower and go to crobat or predict falre blitz and go to relicanth. You can't cover every threat with offensive teams, a lot of them require revenge killing or prediction, which is why I guess I find it so fun!

Espeon is trouble, but it isn't common and gallade can take a hit as can shaymin (from psychic). Shadow Sneak from Gallade also helps here.

 

[Espeonage]

Crobat's EVs are illegal.

I do see a Screening Rotom weakness if you chose to replace Shaymin with Roserade.

Weezing seems like it could be trouble with Thunderbolt, Sludge Bomb, and WoW.

 

[Relictivity]

Excellent Team, I struggled to find any weaknesses. And GO RELICANTH! :D.

Anyways, the two things I found that you might change are with Shaymin and Relicanth, although you don't necessarily have to change them as your pokemon do a good job as is.

First, I would suggest fitting sub over Synthesis on Shaymin. Why? It will allow you to predict easier and also, you gain so much HP from Leech Seed and Leftovers that you lose only a small amount of HP by subbing. And Shaymin's Subs are pretty stable. However, I also see Shaymin being screwed over by other Grasses, so you may want to fit HP Fire/Ice somewhere.

Second, with Relicanth, it seems that Earthquake has little purpose, as Electrics not named Ampharos are not going to be switching into Relicanth often in the first place. I suggest one of two things. The first option would be replacing Earthquake with Bounce - yes, I said Bounce. You can play mindgames with your opponents Shaymin and Gallade as they will be forced to switch out, getting more SR and Spike Damage, or take a good amount from Bounce. The Second Option would be making that into a RestTalk Canth, which is very stable (Relicanth without considering in typing is more defensive than Steelix thanks to that 100 base HP). It also allows you to use Head Smash more liberally as you will get some extra hits while Sleep Talking. And nobody will setup because they fear getting a Head Smash in the face. If you use this set, you may want to swap the item for Life Orb for Power, although Leftovers will do just fine to minimize your resting.

Hope I helped.

 

[panamaxis]

Synthesis is definitely worth it on shaymin, it has helped me out so many times. Also, I wrote the wrong Evs on crobat thanks for picking that up.