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The World Cup of Pokemon IV - Semi Finals
- Thread starter Jackal
- Start date
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Given the potential weight of this match, you guys should definitely play (now). Good for the tourney.
Well, I'm pretty sure I stated that DB was inactive as hell and on vacation, I figured you were well aware of the deadline date and would be able to make a decision and stick by it. I've asked you at least twice if you were going to sub in for the LD match.
No, I completely agree that this is bad from a competitive standpoint. Yeah, I'd rather LD earn a win, but after Jackal announced us as winners, how can I not take that? This isn't a discussion about what should be done on irc, Jackal's already made a ruling, it'd look pretty bad for him to go back on it now.
Even if LD is the favorite to win, it is pokemon, hax happens, I'd much rather have the sure thing. Not to mention that Aldaron, even a rusty Aldaron is always dangerous.
Also, from a competitive standpoint, the tiebreaker would be AMAZING for the tournament.
right so i find this kind of unfair both as a host and as a captain. i won't make any calls on this because i may be biased but we got no warning about this.
plus, each deadline has been 'delayed' by 3-4 days atleast. every single round. why not when it hurts us?
i've pmed jackal and the fact is the deadline is TODAY. we have aldaron raedy to play right now but since jackal has prematurely made this call, we're waiting.
i expect to be given a couple of days on this, waiting on you jackal.
(or tay could just say 'i agree you guys should get to battle' and we can just get this done with right now)
plus, each deadline has been 'delayed' by 3-4 days atleast. every single round. why not when it hurts us?
i've pmed jackal and the fact is the deadline is TODAY. we have aldaron raedy to play right now but since jackal has prematurely made this call, we're waiting.
i expect to be given a couple of days on this, waiting on you jackal.
(or tay could just say 'i agree you guys should get to battle' and we can just get this done with right now)
I'm not sure exactly what to think here...I'm fairly confident that subbing in Aldaron on the day of the deadline is within the rules, and since the deadline is actually not passed until tonight, my logical side says that LoveDestiny and Aldaron should play.
Still, I think this is an extremely poor display of both organization and sportsmanship. You subbed in a player who you knew was going to be inactive, and now complain when you are given a loss for inactivity? Extensions are given when both sides make an honest effort to complete the match - not when one player has been active the entire time and the other has not been available to battle once. So don't act like you are being blindsided by some deus ex machina decision when it is entirely clear that an extension is not appropriate. Did you really not expect to get a match loss for inactivity in this situation?
I am also well aware that Aldaron is now ready to play...but it is entirely ridiculous to expect us to accomodate you when this is clearly a result of your inaction. LoveDestiny should not be forced to play within 24 hours with zero preparation for his opponent (regardless of whether or not Aldaron is prepared; that is his choice). I spent a whole lot of time preparing for my match with Itachi, and the other players on my team should be given that opportunity in a reasonable amount of time as well (...which brings us back to the extension, but I think that is an even more ridiculous prospect for reasons I have already stated).
It is also annoying that players on my team (at least Scofield and Duskie) have asked Aldaron directly if he would sub in for DawnBringer on more than one occasion earlier in the round, and he did not do so until the day of the deadline, when he saw that Jackal was going to give us a 'free' win.
So to sum up: I am aware that subbing on the day of the deadline is probably within the rules of the tournament, but the circumstances surrounding it are both unfair and incredibly frustrating to myself and my team, especially when we have put so much time and effort into getting this far in the tournament.
Jackal, I will be on irc tomorrow to discuss this. I get off of work at 3:00pm PST, and I will log onto irc and at least idle for the rest of the day ASAP after that. I have also spoken with LoveDestiny, and he says he can play tomorrow if necessary.
Still, I think this is an extremely poor display of both organization and sportsmanship. You subbed in a player who you knew was going to be inactive, and now complain when you are given a loss for inactivity? Extensions are given when both sides make an honest effort to complete the match - not when one player has been active the entire time and the other has not been available to battle once. So don't act like you are being blindsided by some deus ex machina decision when it is entirely clear that an extension is not appropriate. Did you really not expect to get a match loss for inactivity in this situation?
I am also well aware that Aldaron is now ready to play...but it is entirely ridiculous to expect us to accomodate you when this is clearly a result of your inaction. LoveDestiny should not be forced to play within 24 hours with zero preparation for his opponent (regardless of whether or not Aldaron is prepared; that is his choice). I spent a whole lot of time preparing for my match with Itachi, and the other players on my team should be given that opportunity in a reasonable amount of time as well (...which brings us back to the extension, but I think that is an even more ridiculous prospect for reasons I have already stated).
It is also annoying that players on my team (at least Scofield and Duskie) have asked Aldaron directly if he would sub in for DawnBringer on more than one occasion earlier in the round, and he did not do so until the day of the deadline, when he saw that Jackal was going to give us a 'free' win.
So to sum up: I am aware that subbing on the day of the deadline is probably within the rules of the tournament, but the circumstances surrounding it are both unfair and incredibly frustrating to myself and my team, especially when we have put so much time and effort into getting this far in the tournament.
Jackal, I will be on irc tomorrow to discuss this. I get off of work at 3:00pm PST, and I will log onto irc and at least idle for the rest of the day ASAP after that. I have also spoken with LoveDestiny, and he says he can play tomorrow if necessary.
Well, that's fine, but really the only reason to not allow this battle to happen is because you are worried about the time it will take.
As oceania co-captain I say if you need a week to prepare then take a week. We are willing to wait.
I mean honestly, I'd rather beat a team in the final that made it their by winning battles, not by being online more than their opponents.
I mean at least you have the time until the play off battle is completed you could be using to get this done..
Have a nice day.
As oceania co-captain I say if you need a week to prepare then take a week. We are willing to wait.
I mean honestly, I'd rather beat a team in the final that made it their by winning battles, not by being online more than their opponents.
I mean at least you have the time until the play off battle is completed you could be using to get this done..
Have a nice day.
Sure TAY, I agree with that but look at the other battle in this round which finished very close to the deadline. Yes, I'm talking about your own battle with itachi109.
Why did US West guys decide to keep you in the team and not sub you out when they knew that you would be away for something like 80% of the time allotted for this round? Even when you came back you were "unable" to play for the first few days basically ending up in a situation where you had to play in something like the last 2-3 days.
For your information, itachi's school had started this week and he had been fucking busy because of it. He had gotten out of touch and hadn't played in a week or so. So just because YOU were on vacation and YOU weren't ready to play yet, our guy was forced to play in a situation where he wasn't in top form. Sure, you allowed him to 'battle in the evening' but really, what difference does those few hours make to this? If it makes a difference, then LD has that much time too.
I love how you can do the same thing we did and simply accept it because we were good enough sports to not let it come to this situation. You only gave yourself 2 days to make this game happen, we could've easily been "busy" those days and qualified on inactiveness. But we didn't. Why? Because we wanted to beat you guys fair and square, which we will.
So stop being a hypocrite and look at the situation properly.
Oh one more thing, you guys had options for subs, we didn't. I already told you, if you wanted me to step up and "play" (while getting advice for every single move from people), I could've. But we didn't want to do that (even though there are a couple of other teams who have done that stuff this tournament, I won't call out names!).
Aldaron was going to play in the finals, not now since he needed to get back into Pokemon, he's only stepped up because the situation demanded it. Plus, it was completely within the time frame of this round. We were ready to battle, you guys wanted to wait.
Why did US West guys decide to keep you in the team and not sub you out when they knew that you would be away for something like 80% of the time allotted for this round? Even when you came back you were "unable" to play for the first few days basically ending up in a situation where you had to play in something like the last 2-3 days.
For your information, itachi's school had started this week and he had been fucking busy because of it. He had gotten out of touch and hadn't played in a week or so. So just because YOU were on vacation and YOU weren't ready to play yet, our guy was forced to play in a situation where he wasn't in top form. Sure, you allowed him to 'battle in the evening' but really, what difference does those few hours make to this? If it makes a difference, then LD has that much time too.
I love how you can do the same thing we did and simply accept it because we were good enough sports to not let it come to this situation. You only gave yourself 2 days to make this game happen, we could've easily been "busy" those days and qualified on inactiveness. But we didn't. Why? Because we wanted to beat you guys fair and square, which we will.
So stop being a hypocrite and look at the situation properly.
Oh one more thing, you guys had options for subs, we didn't. I already told you, if you wanted me to step up and "play" (while getting advice for every single move from people), I could've. But we didn't want to do that (even though there are a couple of other teams who have done that stuff this tournament, I won't call out names!).
Aldaron was going to play in the finals, not now since he needed to get back into Pokemon, he's only stepped up because the situation demanded it. Plus, it was completely within the time frame of this round. We were ready to battle, you guys wanted to wait.
I am going to go with Hipmonlee said, yes aldaron is ready to sub in and id rather have LD play than us getting a free win because thats pretty cheesy, but you are going to have the delay the WC for a little bit considering if LD wins than we have a tie breaker, and who knows how long that is going to take.
I also think this drama is lame because this whole round LD was trying to figure out who he was playing, and I think thats pretty unfair to him so he should be allowed at least a week or so to play his match.
Also I don't think Tay is being a hypocrite, he was active but did a poor job of trying to get the battle done ASAP, he was kind of delaying it, but in LD's case he just flat out has no opponent and Dawnbringer had said he was on vacation and so is light-kun
I also think this drama is lame because this whole round LD was trying to figure out who he was playing, and I think thats pretty unfair to him so he should be allowed at least a week or so to play his match.
Also I don't think Tay is being a hypocrite, he was active but did a poor job of trying to get the battle done ASAP, he was kind of delaying it, but in LD's case he just flat out has no opponent and Dawnbringer had said he was on vacation and so is light-kun
I know I'm not on either of the teams, but saying "I'd rather have the guaranteed win" is really really wrong in Pokemon. It's a game in a fun tournament :/ I understand making the call based on activity or whatever, but saying "no LD don't battle Aldaron because he might lose" is seriously dumb, just my opinion.
why has SoT been telling me that for the past two weeks then?
Yeah I don't mind waiting really. This is a prestigious tournament, I want the best to play the best. Waiting a week or so isn't an issue for me personally. When Oceania wins this, I want to say that we did so by beating the best. No 'what if's or 'I wonder's.
err I live in Sacramento (go to school in San Diego) so I certainly was not on vacation then. I was gone for a few days when I went to Lake Tahoe, but that's about it.
I won't deny that I put off the match with Itachi, but that is certainly not the same situation. I was actually using the time to test and build teams, and I was active on the forums, shoddy, and irc. There is no way that team asia could not have seen me when I spend at least an hour in eight channels every day, including the three official Smogon channels. Had Itachi told me 'I cannot battle after such and such a date' or 'my time will be extremely limited after this time' then we could have moved it up. But we were both active every single day, and I had no reason to assume that would change since no one attempted to schedule a battle with me (besides random people spamming me on shoddy with TAY PLAY NOW which was honestly extremely annoying).
It's not may fault Itachi has been out of practice or whatever for the past week. He knew he had an important match coming up and if he doesn't want to practice for it then that's his choice, but he at least knew who his opponent was and had a way to get ahold of him. Like I said, if I had known that he would have been crunched for time after a certain date, I would have played earlier, but there was no reason for me to assume that he would suddenly have to stop being active every day in the middle of August.
"We didn't have any subs" is a terrible excuse since Aldaron has obviously been active this entire time. I didn't sub myself out because I of course knew that I was active.
Also, saying "hey we'll wait for the matches to get done!" is silly because 'why do we have deadlines at all' if we are just going to do that.
At any rate, no rules were broken and the deadline has not passed. LoveDestiny should play Aldaron. I would ask that in future World Cups, teams not be allowed to substitute within three+ days of the deadline (barring personal emergencies etc). Let's get this show on the road.
I won't deny that I put off the match with Itachi, but that is certainly not the same situation. I was actually using the time to test and build teams, and I was active on the forums, shoddy, and irc. There is no way that team asia could not have seen me when I spend at least an hour in eight channels every day, including the three official Smogon channels. Had Itachi told me 'I cannot battle after such and such a date' or 'my time will be extremely limited after this time' then we could have moved it up. But we were both active every single day, and I had no reason to assume that would change since no one attempted to schedule a battle with me (besides random people spamming me on shoddy with TAY PLAY NOW which was honestly extremely annoying).
It's not may fault Itachi has been out of practice or whatever for the past week. He knew he had an important match coming up and if he doesn't want to practice for it then that's his choice, but he at least knew who his opponent was and had a way to get ahold of him. Like I said, if I had known that he would have been crunched for time after a certain date, I would have played earlier, but there was no reason for me to assume that he would suddenly have to stop being active every day in the middle of August.
"We didn't have any subs" is a terrible excuse since Aldaron has obviously been active this entire time. I didn't sub myself out because I of course knew that I was active.
Also, saying "hey we'll wait for the matches to get done!" is silly because 'why do we have deadlines at all' if we are just going to do that.
At any rate, no rules were broken and the deadline has not passed. LoveDestiny should play Aldaron. I would ask that in future World Cups, teams not be allowed to substitute within three+ days of the deadline (barring personal emergencies etc). Let's get this show on the road.
heres my stance.
I would always rather see a battle happen than not happen. TAY hit the nail on the head with "extensions are only given if both players put in a good effort to complete the battle", and I think it is completely fair to say that DawnBringer, not intentionally, was not active enough.
Now, I was under the impression that Asia was completely out of subs, as I had been informed several times by shiv and husk. This is why I made the hasty call. I do think it is kind of BS that now all of a sudden aldaron is able to play when before he couldn't/didn't want to. But as a host I need to play by the rules, and subbing aldaron in on the day of the deadline IS in the rules. I think it is kind of a dirty move, I will be frank, but I will allow it.
With that said I will give an extension until the end of the weekend to give both players time to prepare, and I want to thank Oceania for being patient and wanting the best for the tournament.
I would always rather see a battle happen than not happen. TAY hit the nail on the head with "extensions are only given if both players put in a good effort to complete the battle", and I think it is completely fair to say that DawnBringer, not intentionally, was not active enough.
Now, I was under the impression that Asia was completely out of subs, as I had been informed several times by shiv and husk. This is why I made the hasty call. I do think it is kind of BS that now all of a sudden aldaron is able to play when before he couldn't/didn't want to. But as a host I need to play by the rules, and subbing aldaron in on the day of the deadline IS in the rules. I think it is kind of a dirty move, I will be frank, but I will allow it.
With that said I will give an extension until the end of the weekend to give both players time to prepare, and I want to thank Oceania for being patient and wanting the best for the tournament.
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