Stadium has quirks of its own that the base games do not (Stadium 2 for Gen 2 as well).RBY OU should be played on Stadium
PVP on Gen 1 cart was a late addition and the fact that several clauses are on Stadium + it fixes desyncs means that Stadium is literally the objectively better game to base competitive Gen 1 on
Get over Hyper Beam lmao
RBY has its own quirks such as "PVP being added as a late addition at the behest of the publishers, whomst pressured Game Freak to make PvP work at the end of development, making it extremely rushed"Stadium has quirks of its own that the base games do not (Stadium 2 for Gen 2 as well).
I don't think Gen 1 PvP actually has all that many modded concessions, and most of them outside of Sleep Clause (which is a Stadium addition) really just exist to solve programming errors. Offhand:RBY has its own quirks such as "PVP being added as a late addition at the behest of the publishers, whomst pressured Game Freak to make PvP work at the end of development, making it extremely rushed"
Half of Stadium's job was to make a game that could actually be reliably used for competitive tournaments at the time, because RBY sure as shit was not. Stadium 2 we can forego because Gen 2 itself is just actually fairly stable, but Gen 1 RBY OU is literally basically modded RBY OU
Relevant Policy Review thread going on now: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ad-about-rby-cart-accuracy-vs-modding.3739684I'm sure I'm forgetting some (feel free to remind me), but I am not forgetting:
Perfect DV mod, as it doesn't impact gameplay mechanics, and is theoretically obtainable with tradebacks in most cases anyway. One of the cases where tradebacks don't apply (Mewtwo) does have gameplay repercussions, but the gameplay effects aren't changed by the mod... just how accessible they are. It's more of a legality mod than a gameplay mod.
Yeah I did glance at the policy review thread, it's pretty interesting. I actually didn't know that the uneven way link battles handle information from each player' FIGHT command had multiple impacts on the battle until like, last week lol. I think it was Reverend's video on Counter that introduced me to it, showing that I don't play the Gen but I do like learning about its mechanics and bits about its metagames.Relevant Policy Review thread going on now: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ad-about-rby-cart-accuracy-vs-modding.3739684
Static encounters including Mewtwo aren't affected by the DV limitation because it's just based on how wild encounters are generated after an encounter rate roll.
I used to see this semi-frequently in classic fighting games. In the late '90s, Capcom would occasionally put out an updated version of one of their titles in the arcades, but the community would sometimes stick with an older version of it for one reason or another anyway. Like, the Street Fighter Alpha 3 playerbase largely stayed on the original CPS2 release even though the Naomi re-release added a ton of then-console-exclusive characters to it and fixed a bunch of infinite combos. Alpha 2 was also largely preferred over Alpha 2 Gold for reasons that I've entirely forgotten at this point. The Street Fighter III community also stayed on CPS3 instead of migrating to the later Naomi release. There were a lot of little reasons for this. Sometimes some of the specific changes were arguably a step back for one reason or another, but I think chief among them was that the updated versions of these games weren't as widely available worldwide as they were in Japan, so people largely just preferred to stick with what they were familiar with and what they had already invested practice time into.its a bit wild how smogon players prefer old gens being frozen though. The whole rby tradebacks ban feels silly, if you can do it you should do it etc, even if its not the game you used to play or something. I dont remember this being a common thought process for other competitive games, but I could just have a limited view LOL
Tradeback RBY is wildly different enough to warrant its own meta.gen 1 ou is funny as hell. thats not an unpopular opinion sorry but the fact theres programming patches for it because of how insanely bad the pvp code is amuses me
its a bit wild how smogon players prefer old gens being frozen though. The whole rby tradebacks ban feels silly, if you can do it you should do it etc, even if its not the game you used to play or something. I dont remember this being a common thought process for other competitive games, but I could just have a limited view LOL
VGC is low-key a horrible example of it tho. After all, most of the in-game campaign is Singles. It's the main reason why Smogon is so popular, VGC is the one that feels like crazy house rules.I'm a pretty strong believer in the idea of "playing the game that you have, not the game that you wished you had."
Except some past gen stuff has been altered, some big stuff even, like the banning of the Gems in gen 5.Tradeback RBY is wildly different enough to warrant its own meta.
I suppose it makes sense to have them be a time capsule of sorts because it reflects how things were at the time.
For example, Electivire being OU in Gen 4 because everyone wanted to make it work at the time. Would it be UU if it was updated for the current meta? Probably. But it's not accurate to what it was back then.
Ideally, gens should have a cutoff point and have a "Historic Tier" and "Current Tier" IMO.
VGC is low-key a horrible example of it tho. After all, most of the in-game campaign is Singles. It's the main reason why Smogon is so popular, VGC is the one that feels like crazy house rules.
As for my unpopular opinion of the day... Shiny hunting is a fool's errand.
No, it's not because of anything related to the process itself. Most shinies are just too ugly/similar to bother.
Which is why I said there should be a historic cutoff for the record and then the updated, current meta.Except some past gen stuff has been altered, some big stuff even, like the banning of the Gems in gen 5.
I've always derisively referred to them as freak genetic mutations.No, it's not because of anything related to the process itself. Most shinies are just too ugly/similar to bother.
The "Normal Types being immune to Body Slam" mechanics revelation is a good example of how Gen 1 players are willing to keep Gen 1 oddities despite their impact on the game. That was over 10 years of a metagame being played wrongly, and they were willing to run with the change.Y'know, it gets me how with Pokemon comp, the meta back then wasn't so adapting to change
Like it was only recently people realized Normal types weren't affected by Body Slam paralysis. Most of meta picks were set in stone for over a decade that point
But then man. Now we have a lot of changes. We went from "Moltres is the worst bird" to "Moltres does very well in RBYOU actually" after people started to experiment more
Gen 3 OU similarly is experimenting more these days, and then Gen 4 we had Clefable reinspected for being a bulky status immune mon after its Gen 6/7 success
It's a nice thing, to see people break out from stereotypical picks and find use that's more than just niche
It's impossible to have an objective assessment of a mon's strength though.The "Normal Types being immune to Body Slam" mechanics revelation is a good example of how Gen 1 players are willing to keep Gen 1 oddities despite their impact on the game. That was over 10 years of a metagame being played wrongly, and they were willing to run with the change.
Speaking of change, this is more of an unpopular opinion about Smogon itself rather than the Pokémon games, but I'm not totally happy with the current usage-based tiering. I think it makes sense, to a point, especially since the tiers themselves have the word "Used" in them. But it annoys me when a perfectly acceptable Pokémon in a lower tier gets removed and shut out from that tier (or tiers) just because it finds a significant niche in a higher tier to cause it to be tiered there instead. I started learning competitive Pokémon back when the "Used" designation wasn't indicative of how tiering happened, and tier lists were just kind of popular opinion on a Pokémon's strength/viability. While that system has some obvious problems, I do like how it didn't "punish" lower tiers for higher tiers finding clever uses for previously ignored Pokémon.
I know that documentation for a system like that would probably be more trouble than it's worth, but I envision it using the BL lists as "cutoff" points, kind of like how Ubers works; the Pokémon in the Ubers list are prohibited from being used in tiers below, but can be used in any above. I imagine that Pokémon would be assumed excluded until their usage falls low enough to be tested in lower tiers, but if they are shown to be healthy for a given tier, they could still be used, even if it reaches official usage stats to be placed back into a higher tier.
That's why I say to start things off with the current system, but let lower tiers keep their toys that still get used in, say, OU.It's impossible to have an objective assessment of a mon's strength though.
The obvious counterpoint to this is that if a mon manages to rise up, even on a niche use, to a higher-tier, it means that it's working well enough to belong there.
And when It stops working... Well, we know the deal.
Gastrodon is the main case I am thinking of but I'm sure there are others.
I blame Game Freak for being COWARDS and not giving Garchomp Dragon Dance (and High Horsepower so he can put the fear of Cynthia in VGC too)I just can't look at Garchomp's page, see "UUBL" next to its picture and not think something has gone horribly wrong
UUBL is basically OU.Call me a boomer or whatever but honestly I think Tyranitar and Garchomp dropping out of OU was the final nail in the coffin for compmons for me after already having been kinda disaffected for years. I know I know powercreep happens, old titans have fallen out of favor before... but I dunno man, this really feels like a uniquely dark omen. I just can't look at Garchomp's page, see "UUBL" next to its picture and not think something has gone horribly wrong
It was close in Gen 8 for a little while because of Dracovish. I could have sworn it was OU at some point in the last few gens, but I did do some digging through Marty's old usage stats and it had the highest usage in OU compared to any other tier besides PU. If the usage cutoff was a little lower (I was remembering it at 3.41% or so which I think was its original value?) it could have been OU and been locked out of all the other lower tiers.View attachment 622594
I always love to see Sinnoh mons get their flowers, but this mon hasn't been OU since Gen 5.
This is exactly why the system works. Sure, you can try to run a gimmick to get the jump on some mons, especially something like Gastrodon, which has Storm Drain to give it an extra immunity.
But ultimately, gimmicks don't get to the 4.52% cutoff point unless they're good or popular enough. And if they do, they've earned their place.