Venomoth (Update)

Since Yanmega is probably going to leave UU soon, Venomoth will be the resident Tinted Lens Pokemon, and the current analysis is in desperate need of revamping. I've tried to keep it as short as possible while retaining all the necessary information. This is definitely not my best analysis, but I think that it gets the job done. These sets were/are being tested by Rolfkip, someone who has a good deal of experience in UU. This is my first revamp by the way, so please tell me if I'm doing something wrong.


Changes:
-Removed 'Non-Boosting Attacker' [Set was not fast or powerful enough to sweep]
-Removed 'Baton Passer' [Outclassed entirely by Scyther, Ambipom, Mr. Mime, etc]
-Removed 'Screecher' [Set does not work well and there are far better options for a team slot]
-Changed 'Choice Specs' to 'Moth of Choice and updated it
-Added Agility Sweeper set
-Revamped and rewrote Toxic Spikes set
-Added Double Powder set
-Added Team Options category and team support for each set
-TEAM SUPPORT PARAGRAPH IS THE LAST IN EACH SET!

Testing Status:

Bug of Choice [Good to go]
Agility Sweeper [In progress]
Venomous Moth [Good to go]
Double Powder [Next in line]

_________________________________

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/venomoth

[SET]
name: Moth of Choice
move 1: Bug Buzz
move 2: Psychic
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Sleep Powder
item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
ability: Tinted Lens
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>The ability Tinted Lens sets Venomoth apart from other Bug-type Pokemon and is used to its maximum potential in this set. While Venomoth's movepool isn't enormous, it provides enough tools to get the job done. Bug Buzz is only resisted by Charizard, Moltres, Blaziken, and Toxicroak in UU after Tinted Lens is taken into effect, making it Venomoth's best sweeping move. Psychic hits the latter two for super effective damage and provides unresisted type coverage alongside Bug Buzz. U-turn allows Venomoth to scout its counter, enabling the player to dispatch it with the appropriate switch-in. Sleep Powder rounds out the moveset by being an all-around useful move, either by putting to sleep a counter, or just completely incapacitating an opposing Pokemon.</p>

<p>Maxing Speed and Special Attack EVs allows Venomoth to outpace many Pokemon, such as Nidoking and Blaziken, while hitting as hard as possible. The four remaining EVs are dumped into Defense so that Venomoth can switch into Stealth Rock four times without fainting. Tinted Lens gives Bug Buzz and Psychic's combination excellent coverage in UU. If a Choice Scarf is being used, the nature can be changed to Modest, since Venomoth will still outrun every unboosted Pokemon in UU, including Timid Electrode. It also helps that Venomoth has a 4x resist to the common Mach Punch.</p>

<p>Venomoth greatly appreciates Rapid Spin support. Hitmontop is a prime candidate because he can do severe damage to both Registeel and Blissey, Venomoth's best counters, while also spinning away Stealth Rock. Donphan is an excellent option as he can also defeat Chansey and Registeel. Houndoom can switch into Psychic- and Fire-type attacks aimed at Venomoth and can also hurt Registeel, but is helpless against Blissey.</p>

[SET]
name: Agility Sweeper
move 1: Agility
move 2: Bug Buzz
move 3: Psychic
move 4: Sleep Powder
item: Life Orb
ability: Tinted Lens
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Agility salvages Venomoth's mediocre Speed, turning it into a fast and versatile sweeper. Bug Buzz and Psychic give Venomoth unresisted type coverage in UU when combined with Tinted Lens. Sleep Powder is essential, as it allows Venomoth to put a Pokemon to sleep, and then set up on the switch. If Stealth Rock and Life Orb damage are taking their toll, Roost is an entirely viable option over Sleep Powder to provide greater survivability, although Agility will prove harder to set up.</p>

<p>Modest lets Venomoth hit as hard as possible, while still tying with Jolly Choice Scarf Dugtrio after an Agility. The final EVs are dumped into Defense so that Venomoth retains an odd HP, allowing it to switch in on Stealth Rock four times.</p>

<p>Once again, Rapid Spin support is a huge boon. Venomoth does not like taking Stealth Rock damage in addition to Life Orb recoil. Hitmontop is still Venomoth's best partner, getting rid of Stealth Rock, Chansey, and Registeel all by itself. Donphan is a viable alternative to Hitmontop, possessing essentially the same attributes. This set also appreciates Wish support, since it will be steadily loosing health with each attack. Clefable and Blissey are both excellent choices, especially since their lone Fighting-type weakness is covered by Venomoth's 4x resist.</p>

[SET]
name: Venomous Moth
move 1: Toxic Spikes
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Bug Buzz
move 4: Psychic
item: Leftovers / Focus Sash
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Venomoth is one of the few Pokemon who can viably set up Toxic Spikes, either as a lead or during the course of the game. After putting an opponent to sleep, Venomoth can proceed to set up Toxic Spikes. Bug Buzz is Venomoth's best STAB attack, while Psychic hits any Poison-types trying to absorb Toxic Spikes.</p>

<p>There are two possible item/ability combinations for this set, and they both depend on how Venomoth is being used. Leftovers goes well with Tinted Lens, especially if Venomoth is being brought out during the course of the game when residual damage renders Focus Sash useless. However, if Venomoth is functioning as a lead, Shield Dust in conjunction with Focus Sash is the best option. Shield Dust prevents things such as Ambipom's Fake Out flinch, allowing Venomoth to put them to sleep before they can get off another attack. Focus Sash will ensure that a Pokemon is put to sleep and at least one layer of Toxic Spikes are set up.</p>

<p>Because of the abundance of Poison-type Pokemon in UU, Dugtrio is an excellent teammate for Venomoth. Grounded Poison-types can be trapped and defeated by its STAB Earthquake, allowing Venomoth to set up Toxic Spikes without fear of them being absorbed. Donphan can beat most Poison-types with STAB Earthquake as well as spinning away any entry hazards. Finally, Pokemon who can take advantage of badly poisoned Pokemon, such as Blaziken and Nidoking, are excellent teammates. Once bulkier Pokemon are sufficiently weakened, these heavy hitters will have no problem sweeping a damaged team.</p>

[SET]
name: Double Powder
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Stun Spore
move 3: Bug Buzz
move 4: Psychic
item: Leftovers
ability: Tinted Lens
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Venomoth can use two types of status moves to cripple several members of an opposing team. Generally, Venomoth will hit a Pokemon with Sleep Powder, effectively removing it from the match, then hit the switch-in with Stun Spore, and proceed to damage the now-slower Pokemon, or any other switch-ins with the unresisted combination of Bug Buzz + Psychic.</p>

<p>Timid makes Venomoth reasonably fast, even if its base Speed is only average, and max Special Attack allows it to hit as hard as possible when combined with Tinted Lens. Leftovers allows Venomoth to survive longer so that it can cripple more members of the opposing team. If more power is desired, Life Orb can be used, although Venomoth's other sets are able to make more use of it.</p>

<p>This sets effectiveness lies in its surprise factor. No one expects Venomoth to have any other status moves besides Sleep Powder, so a counter switching in will find itself crippled and easy picking for the faster Venomoth, or another Pokemon.</p>

<p>This Venomoth should be paired with a Pokemon that can utilize the debilitation inflicted upon the opposing team. Blaziken and Houndoom can both switch into Fire-type attacks relatively easily, and set up while the opponent switches. Houndoom has the added bonus of being immune to Psychic attacks that could easily KO Venomoth. Spinners such as Hitmontop and Donphan can keep Venomoth alive longer by ridding the field of Stealth Rock. Finally, Wish support from Clefable or Chansey, both of whom also take special Fire- and Psychic-type attacks with ease, will allow Venomoth to keep switching in and hurting or crippling opponents.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Venomoth has many options when it comes to team support. Choice variants will almost always need to be paired with a reliable spinner such as Hitmontop or Claydol. Hitmontop can easily switch in on Rock-type attacks, softening them with Intimidate, and is able to remove Chansey and Registeel, the two most reliable checks to Venomoth, with STAB Close Combat. Claydol can switch into Rock- and Psychic-type attacks, threatens Chansey with Explosion, and hurts Registeel with STAB Earth Power. Finally, Donphan is an excellent teammate; it beats both Registeel and Chansey, is immune to the common Thunder Wave, and resists Venomoth's Rock-type weakness.</p>

<p>Life Orb versions will appreciate Wish support in order to compensate for repeated residual damage and Life Orb recoil. Chansey and Clefable are the two best options for this role. Both have enough bulk to tank a good number of hits, and their Fighting-type weakness allows for an easy switch to Venomoth after Wish is set up. Both learn Thunder Wave, which is used to compensate for Venomoth's average Speed, allowing it to more easily sweep.</p>

<p>Offensively, Houndoom is an excellent partner for Venomoth, since it is immune to both Fire- and Psychic-type attacks, although it has to watch out for Stone Edge and Rock Slide. Hariyama takes Fire- and Rock-type attacks with ease, and can even shrug off unboosted Psychics with its massive HP. It can then retaliate with Payback and STAB Force Palm, another efficient way to spread paralysis.</p>

<p>Dugtrio deserves as special mention because it can easily trap and kill Venomoth's two greatest counters: Chansey and Registeel. Adamant Choice Band Dugtrio can 2HKO even the most defensive Chansey, and takes 76-89% off Registeel's health.</p>

<p>Ludicolo and Lanturn are also decent teammates for Venomoth, because they can both defeat another Pokemon that stops it: Milotic. Ludicolo can stall out Milotic with Leech Seed and Toxic or just wear it down with Grass Knot. Lanturn is resistant or immune to any of Milotic's attacks and can defeat it with STAB Thunderbolt.</p>


[OTHER OPTIONS]

<p>Venomoth's movepool isn't exactly huge, so is secondary options list is limited. Sludge Bomb gets STAB, but has redundant coverage alongside Bug Buzz while also having less power. Hidden Power Ground can be used to hit Registeel along with grounded Poison-types, but the difference in power between it and Bug Buzz is negligible and Psychic will do more damage to most Poison-types anyway. Baton Pass can be used on the Agility sets to pass your boosts, but there are many other Pokemon who fulfill that role to a greater degree, such as Ambipom and Scyther.</p>

[EVs]

<p>Venomoth should always max Special Attack and Speed, throwing the leftover EVs in Defense. This ensures that it hits as hard as possible while still outspeeding many notable UU Pokemon such as Nidoking and Blaziken. Leaving HP as it is keeps Venomoth at an odd HP number, allowing one more switch into Stealth Rock. If Venomoth doesn't boost its Speed, a Timid nature should be used, although Agility and Choice Scarf sets will outspeed every notable threat with Modest.</p>

[OPINION]

<p>Venomoth is a very interesting Pokemon. While its movepool is nothing to write home about, Tinted Lens gives it an edge over many other UU Bug-types, allowing Bug Buzz alone to hit almost all of UU for neutral damage or better. Even though its sweeping potential is limited by its average Speed and Special Attack, it is still one of the best Bug-types available in UU.</p>

[COUNTERS]

<p>Registeel and Chansey are the two most reliable counters to any version of Venomoth. With excellent Special Defense, they both take paltry damage from Venomoth's attacks and threaten it with Thunder Wave. Mantine is able to shrug off even Specs-boosted Bug Buzz, and can retaliate with Hidden Power Flying. Milotic also poses a problem for Venomoth, being able to survive Specs Bug Buzz, put it to sleep with Hypnosis, and then Haze away Agility boosts.</p>

<p>Venomoth isn't exactly a tank, so anything faster than it will be able to revenge kill it. Swellow and Scyther can both OHKO it with STAB Flying-type attacks. Moltres resists Tinted Lens Bug Buzz and can OHKO back with either STAB attack. Finally, Houndoom can come in on a Choiced Psychic and set up Nasty Plot while Venomoth flees.</p>
 

bugmaniacbob

Was fun while it lasted
is an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
A couple of things:

NU analyses will have to be revamped when the tier is sorted out anyway, and right now I am essentially looking to get the "OU of UU" perfected.
Also, you have to reserve an update before you do it, and I have already reserved Venomoth. Still, you did it faster than me, so I don't know who has it now.
 

dekzeh

B is for BRUTUS
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Get the Baton Passer set back. It has a very usefull niche for BP teams as it is the only usable BP'r that can remove Toxic Spikes from the field, not to mention Sleep Powder makes it completely different then Ambipom/Scyther, plus Shield Dust is nice.
 

Erazor

✓ Just Doug It
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Moth of Choice said:
Bug Buzz is only resisted by Charizard, Moltres, Blaziken, and Toxicroak in UU after Bug Buzz is taken into effect, making it Venomoth's best sweeping move.
Tinted Lens, not Bug Buzz.

No mention of Donphan in teammates? It provides reliable Spin Support, as well as murdering Registeel and Chansey.
 
Also, you have to reserve an update before you do it, and I have already reserved Venomoth. Still, you did it faster than me, so I don't know who has it now.
Post yours and we can try to combine them both! I understand your position wholeheartedly, so I would be very glad for you to post it and I will work something out from there.

Also, Yanmega's tiering is not decided yet. Until that point it should not be assumed it will be BL. A lot of this writing seems to be in the view that Yanmega is BL (eg. "Tinted Lens sets Venomoth apart from other Bug-type Pokemon and is used to its maximum potential in this set.").
 
Bugmaniacbob, I'm very sorry that I took your reserved analysis, but when I started moth, it was not even on the sticky thread. If you would like, I can delete this and you can have the slot back, or you could just use mine as a template and work off of that. I am open to anything since you did reserve the analysis. Just let me know.
 

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
[SET]
name: Moth of Choice
move 1: Bug Buzz
move 2: Psychic
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Sleep Powder
item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
ability: Tinted Lens
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>The ability Tinted Lens sets Venomoth apart from other Bug-type Pokemon and is used to its maximum potential in this set. While its movepool isn't enormous, it provides enough tools to get the job done. Bug Buzz is only resisted by Charizard, Moltres, Blaziken, and Toxicroak in UU after Bug Buzz is taken into effect, making it Venomoth's best sweeping move. (there are plenty more who resist it) Psychic hits the latter two for super effective damage and provides unresisted type coverage alongside Bug Buzz. U-turn allows Venomoth to scout its counter, enabling the player to dispatch it with the appropriate switch. Sleep Powder rounds out the moveset by being an all-around great move, either by putting to sleep a counter, or just completely incapacitating an opposing Pokemon.</p>

<p>Maxing Speed and Special Attack EVs allows Venomoth to outpace many other Pokemon such as Nidoking and Blaziken while letting hitting as hard as possible. The 4 remaining EVs are dumped into Defense so that Venomoth can switch into Stealth Rock four times without fainting. Tinted Lens gives Bug Buzz and Psychic combination good (not perfect) coverage in UU. If a Choice Scarf is being used, the nature can be changed to Modest, since Venomoth will still outrun every unboosted Pokemon in UU. (examples?) It also helps that Venomoth has a 4x resist to the common Mach Punch.</p>

<p>Venomoth greatly appreciates Rapid Spin support. Hitmontop is a prime candidate because he can do severe damage to both Registeel and Chansey, Venomoth's best counters, while also spinning away Stealth Rock. Claydol is also a good choice because he can threaten Registeel with STAB Earthpower and use Explosion on Blissey. (Quite untrue) Houndoom can switch into Psychic- and Fire-type attacks aimed at Venomoth and can also hurt Registeel, but is helpless against Blissey.</p>

I'd say make reference about dealing wit Ghost-types who block Rapid Spin. Venomoth also needs Stealth Rock to sweep better!

[SET]
name: Agility Sweeper
move 1: Bug Buzz
move 2: Psychic
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Agility
item: Life Orb
ability: Tinted Lens
nature: Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Agility salvages Venomoth's mediocre Speed, turning it into a fast and versatile sweeper. Bug Buzz and Psychic give Venomoth unresisted type coverage in UU when combined with Tinted Lens. Sleep Powder is essential, as it allows Venomoth to put a Pokemon to sleep, and then set up on the switch. If Stealth Rock and Life Orb damage are taking their toll, Roost is an entirely viable option over Sleep Powder to provide survivability, although Agility will be harder to set up. </p>

<p>Modest lets Venomoth hit as hard as possible, while still tying with Jolly Choice Scarf Dugtrio after an Agility. The final EVs are dumped into Defense so that Venomoth retains an odd HP, allowing Venomoth to switch in on Stealth Rock 4 times.</p>

<p>Once again, Rapid Spin support is a needed on this set. Venomoth does not like taking Stealth Rock damage in addition to Life Orb recoil. Hitmontop is still Venomoth's best partner, getting rid of Stealth Rock, Chansey, and Registeel all by itself. This set also appreciates Wish support, since it will be steadily loosing health. Clefable and Blissey are both excellent choices, especially since their lone Fighting-type weakness is covered by Venomoth's 4x resist.</p>

[SET]
name: Venomous Moth
move 1: Toxic Spikes
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Bug Buzz
move 4: Psychic
item: Leftovers / Focus Sash
ability: Tinted Lens / Shield Dust
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Venomoth is one of the few Pokemon who can viably set up Toxic Spikes, either as a lead or during the course of the game. After putting an opponent to sleep, Venomoth can proceed to set up Toxic Spikes. Bug Buzz is Venomoth's best STAB attack, while Psychic hits any Poison-types trying to absorb Toxic Spikes.</p>

<p>There are two possible item/ability combinations for this set, and they both depend on how Venomoth is being used. Leftovers goes well with Tinted Lens, especially if Venomoth is being brought out during the course of the game when residual damage renders Focus Sash useless. However, if Venomoth is functioning as a lead, Shield Dust in conjunction with Focus Sash is the best option. Shield Dust prevents flinch from leads such as Ambipom's Fake Out allowing Venomoth to put them to sleep before they can get off another attack. Focus Sash will ensure that a Pokemon is put to sleep and at least one layer of Toxic Spikes are set up.</p>

<p>Because of the abundance of Poison-type Pokemon in UU, Dugtrio is an excellent teammate for Venomoth. Grounded Poison-types can be trapped and defeated by its STAB Earthquake, allowing Venomoth to set up Toxic Spikes without fear of them being absorbed. Houndoom is also an excellent partner, since many Poison-types in UU are weak to Fire-type attacks. (pretty false) Finally, Pokemon who can take advantage of badly poisoned Pokemon, such as Blaziken and Nidoking, are excellent teammates. Once bulkier Pokemon are sufficiently weakened, these heavy hitters will have no problem sweeping a damaged team.</p>

---

That's it for now. Bold for changes, comments in parenthesis. Good write-up, although it seems some information seems like it hasn't been tested enough. (team options) With comments like Blissey and Earth Power Claydol handling Registeel, it seems like you didn't test it enough. With that being said the material is still good, the team options may need some work.

1. Donphan makes an excellent partner, dealing with most of the spin blockers, as well as provide Stealth Rock damage.

2. Milotic is a good counter to all its set, be sure to add it in and explain how to handle it. It can haze Agility boost and take a Specs Bug Buzz.

I've tested this a bit myself, but this is all i can muster up for now, defenitley add those in.
 
Sludge Bomb and Bug Buzz have equal power, and Sludge Bomb should be at least slashed with Psychic on the choice set. Psychic may have unresisted coverage, but so does Sludge Bomb, and most of the pokemon listed aren't going to like taking a STAB Sludge Bomb any more than a SE Psychic. Adding to that is the fact that the ones hit SE by Psychic are slower than you, while Slude Bomb hits the faster Moltres and Charizard harder. Plus, 30% chance to Poison is nice.
 
Sludge Bomb and Bug Buzz have equal power, and Sludge Bomb should be at least slashed with Psychic on the choice set. Psychic may have unresisted coverage, but so does Sludge Bomb, and most of the pokemon listed aren't going to like taking a STAB Sludge Bomb any more than a SE Psychic. Adding to that is the fact that the ones hit SE by Psychic are slower than you, while Slude Bomb hits the faster Moltres and Charizard harder. Plus, 30% chance to Poison is nice.
it has the same power, and neither of the pokes you listed resist either attack, so how does it hit harder?
 
I'm going to stop updating this until bugmaniacbob and twash decide how they would like to resolve this situation. Again, I'm completely open to having this thread locked and the analysis rights handed back to bugmaniacbob since it was my lack of observation that caused this trouble in the first place.
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
I would recommend noting hp ground as an option over psychic ( i dont think either it do enough to deter things like tentacruel, but hp ground will allow you to beat heatran at least (who frequently switches in on this set in experience) on the toxic spikes set. It should also be noted that puting shield dust on the toxic spikes set will allow it to beat the common scarf rachi lead (you mentioned fake out but not serene grace). It should also be noted that shield dust is the one reason to use it over roserade: reliability. ANd yes I have actually used this set extensively and can vouch for its effectiveness.
 
I've just contacted bugmaniacbob, and we've decided that I should continue with the set. I have edited in several changes.
 

Xia

On porpoise
is a Contributor Alumnus
Moth of Choice:
<p>Maxing Speed and Special Attack EVs allows Venomoth to outpace many other Pokemon, such as Nidoking and Blaziken, while letting Venomoth hit as hard as possible. The four remaining EVs are dumped into Defense so that Venomoth can switch into Stealth Rock four times without fainting. Tinted Lens gives Bug Buzz and Psychic's combination excellent coverage in UU. If a Choice Scarf is being used, the nature can be changed to Modest, since Venomoth will still outrun every unboosted Pokemon in UU, including Timid Electrode. It also helps that Venomoth has a 4x resist to the common Mach Punch.</p>
Agility Sweeper:
[SET]
move 1: Agility
move 2: Psychic
move 3: Bug Buzz
move 4: Sleep Powder
[reordered the moves listed to better represent their usefullness withing the set itself]

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Agility salvages Venomoth's mediocre Speed, turning it into a fast and versatile sweeper. Bug Buzz and Psychic give Venomoth unresisted type coverage in UU when combined with Tinted Lens. Sleep Powder is essential, as it allows Venomoth to put a Pokemon to sleep, and then set up on the switch. If Stealth Rock and Life Orb damage are taking their toll, Roost is an entirely viable option over Sleep Powder to provide greater survivability, although Agility will be harder to set up. [no space here]</p>

<p>Modest lets Venomoth hit as hard as possible, while still tying with Jolly Choice Scarf Dugtrio after an Agility. The final EVs are dumped into Defense so that Venomoth retains an odd HP, allowing it [pronoun keeps it from sounding redundant] to switch in on Stealth Rock four times.</p>
Venemous Moth:
[SET]
[if both abilities are viable, list neither]
[How useful is Sleep Powder when everything is being poisoned (bar Steel- and Poison-types)? I would slash in another suport option here (ie, Roost).]
Double Powder:
<p>This set's effectiveness lies in its surprise factor. No one expects Venomoth to have any other support moves besides Sleep Powder, so a counter switching in will find itself crippled and easy picking for the faster Venomoth or another Pokemon.</p>
Team Options
[The title shouldn't be in caps, only the first letters should be capitalized (unlike SET and SET COMMENTS) ;]]
<p>Venomoth has many options when it comes to team support. Choice variants will almost always need to be paired with a reliable spinner such as Hitmontop or Claydol. Hitmontop can easily switch in on Rock-type attacks, softening them with Intimidate, and can remove Chansey and Registeel, the two most reliable checks to Venomoth, with STAB Close Combat. Claydol can switch into Rock- and Psychic-type attacks, threatens Blissey with Explosion and Registeel with STAB Earth Power. Finally, Donphan is an excellent teammate; it beats both Registeel and Chansey, is immune to the common Thunder Wave, and resists Venomoth's Rock-type weakness.</p>

<p>Life Orb versions will appreciate Wish support in order to compensate for repeated entry hazard damage, residual damage and Life Orb recoil. Chansey and Clefable are the two best options for this role. Both have enough bulk to tank a good number of hits, and their Fighting-type weakness allows for an easy switch to Venomoth after Wish is set up. Both learn Thunder Wave, which is used to compensate for Venomoth's average Speed, allowing it to more easily sweep.</p>

<p>Dugtrio deserves as special mention because it can easily trap and kill Venomoth's two greatest counters: Chansey and Registeel. Adamant Choice Band Dugtrio can 2HKO even the most defensive Chansey, and takes 76-89% of Registeel's health.</p>

<p>Ludicolo and Lanturn are also decent teammates for Venomoth, because they can both defeat another Pokemon that stops it: Milotic. Ludicolo can stall out Milotic with Leech Seed and Toxic or just wear it down with Grass Knot. Lanturn is resistant or immune to any of Milotic's attacks and can defeat it with STAB Thunderbolt.</p>
Other Options:
<p>Venomoth's movepool isn't exactly huge, so is secondary options list is limited. Sludge Bomb gets STAB, but has redundant coverage alongside Bug Buzz while also having less power. Hidden Power Ground can be used to hit Registeel along with grounded Poison-types, but the difference in power between it and Bug Buzz is negligible and Psychic will do more damage to most Poison-types, anyway. Baton Pass can be used on the Agility sets to pass your boosts, but there are many other Pokemon who fulfill that role to a greater degree, such as Ambipom and Scyther.</p>
EVs:
<p>Venomoth should always max Special Attack and Speed, throwing the leftover EVs in Defense. This ensures that it hits as hard as possible while still outspeeding many notable UU Pokemon such as Nidoking and Blaziken. Leaving HP as it is keeps Venomoth at an odd HP number, allowing one more switch into Stealth Rock than usual. If Venomoth doesn't boost its Speed, a Timid nature should be used, although Agility and Choice Scarf sets will outspeed every notable threat with Modest.</p>
Counters:
<p>Registeel and Chansey are the two most reliable counters to any version of Venomoth. With excellent Special Defense, they both take paltry damage from Venomoth's attacks and threaten it with Thunder Wave. Mantine is able to shrug off even Specs-boosted Bug Buzz, and can retaliate with Hidden Power Flying [though I've never played against Mantine in anything but NU]. Milotic also poses a problem for Venomoth, being able to survive Specs Bug Buzz, put it to sleep with Hypnosis, and then Haze away Agility boosts.</p>

<p>Venomoth isn't exactly a tank, so anything faster than it will be able to revenge kill it. Swellow and Scyther can both OHKO it with STAB Flying-type attacks. Moltres resists Tinted Lens Bug Buzz and can OHKO back with either STAB attack. Finally, Houndoom can come in on a Choiced Psychic and set up Nasty Plot while Venomoth flees.</p>
Not bad for your first time, though I do notice your wording becomes redundant as I read each set of set comments. Try rewording phrases that are similar to help solve this problem, or completely remove it in one section, so its impact isn't mitigated by repitition.
 
name: Double Powder
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Stun Spore
move 3: Bug Buzz
move 4: Psychic/ Substitute
item: Leftovers
ability: Tinted Lens
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Abuse the free turns you get off this set with Substitute. Most effective Venomoth set ATM tbh.
 
question: (sorry if it was discussed already) I'm not great with damage calcs and math in general lol, but I do use a choice spec Veno on occasion. I wondered if anyone could give me a summary or something of what move is more appropriate to use on a pokemon that resists bug .5 and is weak to psychic x2. Bug buzz will get STAB obviously and tinted lens doubles it, but will that do more than a straight up non STAB psychic if the said opponent is weak to psychic? also if someone could give me some kind of numbers to multiply by to calculate how much damage a STAB tinted lens move such as sludgebomb or bug buzz would do to an opponent that resists it .25? thanks!
 
Why is Roost absent from every set? Venomoth has two 4x resists (Fighting and Grass) that it can abuse, and can walk all over the now standard Leaf Storm + Sludge Bomb Venusaur. Not to mention Sleep Powder can get it free turns as well. Rather than running a coverage move to get coverage on three pokemon, some of these sets should just leave nearly perfect coverage alone and run Roost for longevity.

I've personally run Double Powder with Roost and it's perfectly capable of playing an active role through an entire match. Also, if you are mono-attacking, Insect Plate is a decent item choice, since it powers up Bug Buzz without taking away health, and can bluff a choice item to get surprise kills / sleep. I would definitely slash Roost over Psychic on the Double Powder set, and possibly on the Toxic Spikes set (though Psychic is more useful there to hit Poison-types for better than neutral damage). Considering how likely it is that your Toxic Spikes will get absorbed, Venomous Moth could still use Roost so it can get so it can come back for more (the same reason makes me think Focus Sash is a bad idea - leading with Toxic Spikes in the lower tiers is an exercise in futility). The Double Powder set can still paralyze Blaziken, Moltres, and Toxicroak on the switch, so there is less of a compulsion to run Psychic. Consider slashing Insect Plate as well (probably just on Double Powder), but mention it's only if you're mono-attacking.

question: (sorry if it was discussed already) I'm not great with damage calcs and math in general lol, but I do use a choice spec Veno on occasion. I wondered if anyone could give me a summary or something of what move is more appropriate to use on a pokemon that resists bug .5 and is weak to psychic x2 (Psychic does more). Bug buzz will get STAB (x1.5)obviously and tinted lens doubles it(2 x .5 = 1), but will that do more than a straight up non STAB psychic if the said opponent is weak to psychic(x2 > x1.5)? also if someone could give me some kind of numbers to multiply by to calculate how much damage a STAB tinted lens move such as sludgebomb or bug buzz would do to an opponent that resists it .25(.25 x 2 = .5)? thanks!

You could just look up the mechanics in the Strategy Pokedex section of the web site.
 

Eo Ut Mortus

Elodin Smells
is a Programmeris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past SCL Championis a Past WCoP Champion
Moving to QC as I'm unsure about the Agility sweeper. Furthermore, it seems like the Stun Spore can just be mentioned in AC / lead Toxic Spiker's set comments.
 
That was much more helpful than the original but the baton pass set dopes have a useful little niche. Its noice to know that venomotH is becoming more useful with yanmega being moved around the tiers so much. And venomoth doesn't have the hideous stealth rock weakness that yanmega has either. YES!!!!!! Great revamp. I hope more keeps being added as the dp metagame nears the fall of its climax.
 
This needs to be updated to match today's format. Anyway, I have a couple of comments. First, I would mention that Venomoth has a 4x resist to Grass and Fighting, which can prove useful to many teams, despite its kinda poor defensive stats. Also, Venomoth can be a useful set-up of Sunny Day, as well as being able to use Solarbeam effectively, thanks to Tinted Lens and a good Special Attack stat. Morning Sun is also an option with Sunny Day. I don't know if Dark Talon is still doing this update, but if he isn't, then I might be able to take over, even though I might be busy for a while.

EDIT: PMed Dark Talon, and noticed that he hasn't been on Smogon for about two weeks.
 
Remember Life Orb Roserade? And how deadly it was? Venomoth can run a very similar set in the following way:

Venomoth @ Life Orb
Timid / Tinted Lens
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Bug Buzz
HP Ground
Sleep Powder
Roost

Despite the fact that there are more than a few Pokemon that wall Ground + Bug, this set does work because even resistors are hit hard by Tinted Lens boosted attacks, and really sturdy resistors (Drifblim / Moltres / etc) can be put to sleep. The stallbreaking idea is to continually draw in Chansey and put it to sleep, disallowing it from healing. This strategy works even better with Pursuiter / Dugtrio support. This set deserves at least a test imo.
 
i never really found a use for hp ground on venomoth; it basically only hits blaziken/toxicroak for more power but then you can use psychic for those. hp ground doesn't ohko either but psychic ohkos toxicroak and ohkos blaziken after sr. other stuff like registeel takes negligibly less from bug buzz due to tinted lens, and it's not doing all that much in any case (better to just get out and switch to donphan/whatever). but since blaziken/toxicroak aren't *that* common, i found the following set more effective:

venomoth @ insect plate (timid)
- bug buzz
- roost
- sleep powder
- toxic

toxic lets you beat toxic/stoss chansey, or if it wants to play the pp stall game, you can get an easy switch into it with something else. more importantly it means milotic can't wall you indefinitely either. maybe slash toxic/psychic or something...

dark talon hasn't updated this in a year, so it may need another writer.
 
I'll take over this update, seeing as Labor Day weekend is coming up, and I might have some time to work on this (not to mention that I kinda feel obligated to do it, because I founded the "Venomoth Users" club). I'll test out the set whistle suggested, and see how it fares. If it works, I'll put it in.
What I'll essentially do is modify his update so it will be more modern, while adding some ideas here and there. I'll post it in my own thread, so a mod can lock this if they want. I can't wait to work on Venomoth's update!
PMing whistle now.
 

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
I am really unsure of the Agility Set's viability. The EVs also seem a bit off; Venomoth really doesn't need to outrun Choice Scarf Dugtrio...I would recommend dropping it down to outrunning Adamant Absol before an agility, which incidentally also lets you outrun everything up to base 100+ scarfers (like typhlosion). That's good enough imo. Stick the rest into HP so Venomoth can make use of its nice resistances.

There's...also no Life Orb set, which is arguably Venomoth's best option. Something like this:

Venomoth @ Life Orb
8 HP/248 SpA/252 Spe
Timid

-Bug Buzz
-Sleep Powder
-Psychic
-Roost

Tinted Lens, decent speed and surprising power makes this retardedly difficult for offensive teams that rely on resistances (like mine) to deal with. Things like Milotic and Chansey are put to sleep (assuming you didn't waste it) and Bug Buzz/Psychic hits everything at least neutrally with Tinted Lens. Whoostle's Insect Plate set is good too, but Life Orb boosts Psychic and Bug Buzz's power against key threats; for instance, Toxicroak, Moltres (after SR) and Blaziken are killed off by Bug Buzz -> Psychic, while offensive Venusaur is 2hko'd all the time even without SR or if it used Synth, and ohko'd with a bit of residual damage. There are also other important kills, like the guaranteed kill against 4/0 Mespirit using Bug Buzz (after SR) and at least a chance to kill 252/0 variants, and the possible 2hko and guaranteed 3hko on 252/252+ Venusaur with Psychic (Insect Plate Bug Buzz doesn't even 4hko)

Flashrider, if you're taking over this update, please make a separate thread. Copy all the information you think is pertinent, and link back to this one. The above changes, and the ones other QC members made, are the ones you should be considering.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top