You are a type specialist in a hostile region. How do you best represent your chosen element?

[QuentinQuonce]

Introduction

It's been discussed to death, but many of the older games - and occasionally newer ones - find players facing bosses who specialise in a chosen type despite their region not being particularly abundant in that species. Quite often, NPCs who specialise in an elusive type will bulk out their team by adding species not of their element. What criteria goes into selecting these non-apposite team picks can vary, but usually there is some aspect of flavour, design, or moves learned to justify their inclusion.

This has often given me reason to wonder: if I were given the task of being a type specialist in a particular game or region and I were limited to the Pokemon found in that region's Pokedex, how would I go about it? What team could you assemble to best showcase a particular type given the constraints of availability in a particular environment?



The premise

Here's how this will work. Every few days/weeks/for as long as there's interest, I'll assign a type and a region we've seen in the games ("you are a Poison-type specialist in RBY Kanto") - it's up to you to post a response stating what six Pokemon you'd pick to best represent that type. Do they work well as a unit? Do they have a good balance of stats and secondary types? Are they distinct enough from each other that your whole team is individually memorable or have you deliberately chosen Pokemon that operate similarly to one another? If the region in question does not have six Pokemon of your assigned type, explain why the species you've chosen instead should be on your team. Do they fit your type's flavour from an aesthetic point of view as opposed to a mechanical one? Do they have access to abilities or moves that give them associations with your type specialty?

Obviously, I'm going to primarily pick types that are not particularly abundant in the region they are paired with. Note that for regions with more than one Pokedex listing, the dex will be specified - DP Sinnoh or Platinum Sinnoh, RSE Hoenn or ORAS Hoenn, and so on.

What this isn't is an "if I were an NPC" thread. Posts going into detail about "I think I'd be an Elite Four member called Susan and I'd be from Cinnabar Island" and so on will be disqualified: the focus here is on team picks, not character designs. Nor is it a place for you to post ideas about how Pokedex listings could be improved, or to say "[character] should have had a [species]". Don't worry about overlap with a specialist if one already exists in the region named: for the purposes of this exercise, they don't. Once again, you're not creating a character, just a roster of six Pokemon that showcase a certain type as best you can. Think of it as an intellectual exercise from the point of view of someone designing the enemy lineups.

Each week, I'll post a combination and leave it up for a fixed period of time. As people (hopefully) post suggestions, I will list their names and let everyone vote on which suggestion is best. The winner for each question gets to suggest a new type/region combination to me, if they choose to do so.



Guidelines

• Make a full team of six. Yes, bosses rarely do have a full team of six outside of rematches (especially when they're weaker) but envisage this being your "top-line" team. You're not designing a team of two you'd use if you were the first gym leader; go for a full team of six, and assume that it's a team at a high level.
  
  
• The previous point might imply that you can only select fully-evolved Pokemon: however, you may select NFEs if you can convincingly make the case for their inclusion over fully-evolved species.
  
  
• You may only choose Pokemon native to that region, meaning Pokemon in the regional Pokedex specific to the game title quoted. "You are a Water trainer in DP Sinnoh" means no Vaporeon. Bolding this because people seem to have overlooked it.
  
  
• Legendary Pokemon may not be chosen, as NPCs rarely use these.
  
  
• Move restrictions are not a consideration; therefore you may justify usage of a Pokemon based on a move it did not learn until a later generation. You are permitted to run illegal movesets (i.e. egg move combinations not possible prior to Gen VI, Gen II egg moves alongside Gen I TMs, etc) given that NPCs in the games have frequently ignored these restrictions. But stick to what is actually learned by Pokemon in the games rather than assigning moves to species that don't learn them.
  
  
• Ability considerations are a bit more nebulous, but are only permitted in generations where abilities actually exist - you cannot say "I'm including Seadra on my RBY Poison team because it gets Poison Point in Gen III" (as a random example).
  
  
• No repeat species. Obviously bosses in the series sometimes do use repeat species, however it doesn't really fit the definition of "intellectual exercise" to just say you'd use the same species multiple times to pad out a roster. For the avoidance of doubt, alternate forms count - if two Pokemon have the same Pokedex number, they are repeat species.
  
  
• Try to avoid referencing existing characters where possible, even if a specialist already exists for the type and region combination you're talking about. It's obviously not particularly creative to simply say "well, I think I'd use the same team as [name]" or "I think I'd use [species] because [character] does"
  
  
• Actually make your case for why the six you choose represent that type most thoroughly and convincingly. Don't just say "I'd use [abcxyz]" and leave it at that. Make it interesting.
  
  
• No suggesting new type and region combinations - this is my thread, I post the concepts. If you have an idea you think would work, or if you are the winner of the previous premise, feel free to DM me but do not post it in the thread. My choice is final on which combination gets used, and also in the event of any vote ties.

Hopefully this isn't breaking any rules, and I also hope that we can stick to the topic.

So, with all that out of the way, time to propose the first type/region combination, and it's a suitably tough one to begin with.

You are a Dragon-type specialist in DP Sinnoh. How do you best represent your chosen type?​

You have until June 2nd, 9PM GMT to make your case! After that, I'll list the usernames of everyone who responded and people can vote for the winner.

And then the process can begin again...

_______________________________________________________________________

The Thread So Far

-You are a Dragon-type specialist in DP Sinnoh. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @CryoGyro
-You are a Poison-type specialist in BW Unova. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Just A Seaking
-You are a Fairy-type specialist in ORAS Hoenn. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Imperial Magala
-You are a Ghost-type specialist in GSC Johto. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Ironmage
-You are a Steel-type specialist in LGPE Kanto. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Ironmage
-You are an Ice-type specialist in BW Unova. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @SturdyShedinja
-You are an Electric-type specialist in Central Kalos. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Hugin
-You are a Bug-type specialist in Coastal Kalos. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Sturdyshedinja
-You are a Dragon-type specialist in HGSS Johto. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Pikachu315111
-You are a Fire-type specialist in BDSP Sinnoh. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Hugin
-You are an Ice-type specialist in RSE Hoenn. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @jhm5
-You are a Ground-type specialist in SM Melemele Island. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Cobalt Empoleon
-You are a Dark-type specialist in LGPE Kanto. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Lady Salamence
-You are a Fairy-type specialist in BDSP Sinnoh. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Axiemeister
-You are a Fighting-type specialist in the Crown Tundra. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Cobalt Empoleon
-You are a Psychic-type specialist in Mountain Kalos. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Cobalt Empoleon
-You are an Ice-type specialist in USUM Akala Island. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Eeveeto
-You are a Dragon-type specialist in RBY Kanto. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Pikachu315111
-You are an Ice-type specialist in Kitakami. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Cobalt Empoleon
-You are a Rock-type specialist in BW Unova. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Eeveeto
-You are a Ghost-type specialist on the Isle of Armour. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @jhm5
-You are a Fire-type specialist in Platinum's Battle Zone. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Pikachu315111
-You are a Steel-type specialist in Central Kalos. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Ironmage
-You are a Grass-type specialist in USUM Poni Island. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @SpyderMarz
-You are a Poison-type specialist in the Crown Tundra. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: @Cobalt Empoleon
-You are a Dark-type specialist in the Sevii Islands. How do you best represent your chosen type? Winner: tbd

 

[Turtlek]

def about to sink like a stone
are dragon-types
look like dragons
looks kinda like a sea serpent=dragon
is a monster and fits we’ll draconian aesthetic I think

 

[Altissimo]

So to clarify - maybe you said this but I missed it - are we allowed to use Pokemon that aren't of the type if we can make an argument for their inclusion?

 

[LunaStik]

I think I’d go with a classic Dinosaurs/Reptiles are dragons to help fill out quite a few of the holes.

Bastiodon (dinosaur)
Torterra (turtle)
Gyarados (OK, not a dinosaur, but everyone has it as an honorary dragon)
Garchomp (dragon)

This is a good start, but now we start running into a few issues. Rampardos feels too similar to Bastiodon, so even if it technically works within the rules,I feel it violates the spirit. Also, doesn’t really work as an ultimate version of the team with the current stacked weaknesses. So, time to come up withmore justifications.

The other common threads of dragons are history and legends. So let’s supplement into ancient pokemon or pokemon with “mythical” lore. The best two in that case are actually:

Spiritomb (legends galore in its dex entries)
Gastrodon (It’s entries at least mention its ancient past)

and hey, we have half of Cynthia’s team, so resident dragon champion confirmed? lol.

Now to make it the best possible using DP sets (with Item clause because TPC likes to enforce it in game):

Bastiodon @ Leftovers
Sturdy
-Stealth Rocks
-Curse
-Iron Head
-Rock Slide

Spiritomb @ Wide Lens
Pressure
-Will o Wisp
-Psychic
-Sucker Punch
-Pain Split

Torterra @ Yache Berry
Overgrow
-Swords Dance
-Wood Hammer
-Superpower
-Earthquake

Gastrodon @ Rindo Berry
Storm Drain
-Memento
-Surf
-Sludge Bomb
-Recover

Gyarados @ Life Orb
Intimidate
-Waterfall
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Sand Veil
-Earthquake
-Dragon Claw
-Shadow Claw
-Stone Edge

 

[Nokocchi]

def about to sink like a stone
are dragon-types
look like dragons
looks kinda like a sea serpent=dragon
is a monster and fits we’ll draconian aesthetic I think

Three of those are exclusive to the Platinum dex (Altaria, Tropius, and Houndoom). They said DP Sinnoh

Edit: I'm going to give this a try. I'll use moves exclusive to Platinum and HGSS but nothing farther than that,

Garchomp (the only fully-evolved Dragon type in the DP Sinnoh Dex)
Sand Veil
Outrage
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Fire Fang

Gyarados (Associated with Dragons enough that the Dragon Tamers in DP Sinnoh use only them and the Gible line)
Intimidate
Waterfall
Dragon Dance
Earthquake
Outrage

Milotic (Serpentine in nature and is basically the Gen III equivalent of Gyarados, also it learns Dragon Pulse since in DP Sinnoh Pokemon that are not of that trainer's specialty type at the very least have a single move, even if it's a status move, of that type)
Marvel Scale
Surf
Toxic
Dragon Pulse
Recover

Whiscash (The catfish Whiscash is based on is vaguely associated with dragons in some versions of the lore, which is also why it got Dragon Dance via breeding. Dragons that basically look like catfish are not unheard of in asian mythology anyways)
Anticipation
Waterfall
Earthquake
Dragon Dance
Spark

Torterra (it is one of the few outright reptillian Pokemon in the DP Sinnoh dex(dinosaurs are technically more closely related to birds anyways) and it at the very least gets a Dragon move to be in-line with the canonical trainers use of non-specialty type mons)
Overgrowth
Wood Hammer
Earthquake
Crunch
Outrage

Steelix (Like Gyarados and Milotic it is serpentine in nature and starting in Gen III it was given a variety of Dragon moves, with Dragon Breath being a full-on level-up move, showing that it's dragony-ness isn't just a weird quirk of random TM or Egg moves many Pokemon have. It also is pretty much the best option for a dragon type move for it just due to the 30% Paralysis chance since it is too slow to use the flinch of Dragon Pulse to any great effect)
Rock Head
Iron Tail
Earthquake
Dragonbreath
Head Smash

 

[Turtlek]

Three of those are exclusive to the Platinum dex (Altaria, Tropius, and Houndoom). They said DP Sinnoh

ech gotta think better then

 

[Hugin]

So: Altaria*** and Garchomp are dragons. Rampardos is a dinosaur and Gyarados is a Chinese Dragon*. Drapion** and Snorlax are both big, destructive monsters(Snorlax is even in the Monster egg group). There's some real stretches here, I admit, but I think this is about as good as I can do.

Strat is to lead Rampardos, either set Rocks or just smash. Gyarados comes in second-to-last to Intimidate their sweeper/lure them into an Electric for Garchomp. The other 3 can go in any order.

This one was annoying because of just how close everything is. DPP has a lot of "alternate" methods of obtaining pokemon that I wasn't sure counted, and there's plenty of gen IV evos that would be nice to showcase(Rhyperior, Kingdra) but are locked to post-game.

*I considered Milotic, Seaking, and Whiscash because they're all arguable, discarded them due to type overlap.
**Seviper is in the Dragon egg group and available via dual-slotting, but that's a real stretch.
***Missed that Swablu was post-game only. Staraptor can sub in, it's an angry thing with wings. That's basically a dragon.

Rampardos, Drapion, Staraptor, Snorlax, Gyarados, Garchomp.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

So to clarify - maybe you said this but I missed it - are we allowed to use Pokemon that aren't of the type if we can make an argument for their inclusion?

Yep

Do they work well as a unit? Do they have a good balance of stats and secondary types? Are they distinct enough from each other that your whole team is individually memorable or have you deliberately chosen Pokemon that operate similarly to one another? If the region in question does not have six Pokemon of your assigned type, explain why the species you've chosen instead should be on your team. Do they fit your type's flavour from an aesthetic point of view as opposed to a mechanical one? Do they have access to abilities or moves that give them associations with your type specialty?

*I considered Milotic, Seaking, and Whiscash because they're all arguable, discarded them due to type overlap.
**Seviper is in the Dragon egg group and available via dual-slotting, but that's a real stretch.
***Missed that Swablu was post-game only. Staraptor can sub in, it's an angry thing with wings. That's basically a dragon.

To clarify, when I said DP Sinnoh, that means Pokemon in the Sinnoh dex in DP. Seviper therefore wouldn't be eligible.

 

[BreloomBuddy]

Is a Dragon-type, and the only Dragon type in DP, making it an easy pick for this team.

Garchomp @ Leftovers
Ability: Rough Skin
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Swords Dance

kind of a bulky swords dance mixed set I imagine it running, since it seems like the boss monster of the team and it should have means of doing big damage to everything.


Similar in inspiration to the glaucus sea slug, which is also known as the Blue Dragon. As such, it is a solid pick for a Dragon-user’s team. Not only that, but it synergizes relatively well with Dragons, as it appreciates having allies that can switch into Grass-types.

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
Bold Nature
- Earthquake
- Hydro Pump
- Toxic
- Recover


:milotic: Is a dragon all apart from the fact that it isn’t dragon-type. Being serpentine and sharing an immense amount of qualities with Gyarados make it a good fit for a Dragon team.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Competetive
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance
- Whirlpool

A weird set, but we are assuming we are NPCs, so we use weird things like Defensive Dragon Dance Milotic.


Similar to Milotic, serpentine means dragonlike. It also shares a typing with Garchomp, the only actual Dragon-type on the team, and it gets Dragon Breath.

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Bold Nature
- Dragon Breath
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Thunder Wave


Probably the farthest stretch, but would it learn Dragon Pulse if it weren’t at least a little bit dragony? It also has a similar legendary-like quality to many existing Dragon-types.

Lucario @ Lum Berry
Ability: Justified
Timid Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Flash Cannon
- Nasty Plot


The Gyarados line is based on some legend about a carp turning into a dragon, meaning Gyarados actually IS a dragon. Not to mention all the Dragon-type moves in its learnset.

Gyarados @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Dragon Rage

Just assume Dragon Rage has a practical purpose here, say softening physical walls.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Is a Dragon-type

Similar in inspiration to the glaucus sea slug, which is also known as the Blue Dragon.

:milotic: Is a dragon all apart from the fact that it isn’t dragon-type.

Similar to Milotic, serpentine means dragonlike

Probably the farthest stretch, but would it learn Dragon Pulse if it weren’t at least a little bit dragony?

“corporate needs you to find the difference between this picture [picture of dragon] and this picture [picture of dinosaur].”
“They’re the same picture.”

So near and yet so far...

People, please read the OP properly.

 

[R_N]

Garchomp - The one dragon type if you didn't have this on your Dragon team you're out
Gyarados - The other gimmie. Gyarados is always used as a dragon stand in.
Steelix - The metal plating does give it vague dragon vibes in the same way Gyarados does. It actually learns Dragon Breath by level up, too, which is very rare for things that are either not Dragon type or not "basically" a dragon as is. I'm actually surprised there hasn't been a game where a Dragon trainer uses one, but I suppose it's not actually lined up.
Cranidos - Dinosaurs are dragons. Obviously.
Bastiodon - Dinosaurs are dragons. Obviously.
Torterra - DINOSAURS are DRAGONS. OBVIOUSLY. ok i dont want another straight out & out Dinosaur and I don't want to just grab Milotic who should honestly get on just for the Gyarados connection. Let me get esoteric for a second:
Girafarig

Girafarig's kind of weird for a giraffe. It's got those spines along the back, it's got a tail with a tiny brain in it iand really sharp teeth. I think there's enough "oddities" here that you could put it in a Dragon tteam and go "I can kind of see it...", like a quasi-saurapod type deal maybe.



The real answer is as a type-specialist trainer in Diamond & Pearl we would only have 5 Pokemon, not 6 so I can leave off #6 entirely and be fine

 

[LunaStik]

OK, gonna help out a bit. This is the DP regional dex, not Platinum. So, this list.

 

[Ironmage]

I've chosen to place Garchomp last in team order, since it's most probable to be the ace. The other 5 will be in the order I added them to the team.

Gyarados @ Wacan Berry
Dragon Dance
Outrage
Waterfall
Earthquake

Milotic @ Flame Orb
Recover
Hydro Pump
Dragon Pulse
Haze

The two most obvious dragon substitutes. Doing some gimmick item strats because it's fun. I considered Aqua Tail for Gyarados because I think of HM attacks being rare among NPCs, but decided that Waterfall works into Gyarados' mythos just as well. There is an interesting thread between these two and the Dragon type in gen 4: both lines are defined by requiring a lot of effort in training (and in Milotic's case, catching), a quality shared by a type predominately used by pseudolegendaries and that just got a shiny new move that requires high friendship. It's this aspect that I chose the remainder of the team around.

Crobat @ Black Sludge
U-turn
Brave Bird
Roost
Cross Poison

And here we have a trash mon that becomes good through a friendship evolution compared to Magikarp's pure levels.

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Return
Curse
Crunch
Earthquake

Another friendship evolution, and one with STAB return at that. This is DP after all, where Munchlax is in the top five least obtainable mons. That rarity is part of why it was prioritized over e.g. Lopunny.

Honchkrow @ Scope Lens
Sucker Punch
Night Slash
Superpower
Double-Edge

I still managed to run out of late bloomers, so I turned to a meta example. The team was short on actual gen 4 mons, so having a mon that just got a serious power boost this gen could work as well. Honchkrow was chosen over Weavile for being a stone evolution (and thus possible to have been trained up fully in a previous gen) and over Mismagius because Misdreavus was too good at accomplishing things. Double-Edge is transfer exclusive to really hammer this point.

Garchomp @ Life Orb
Draco Meteor
Outrage
Earthquake
Fire Blast

Runs a mixed set to show off Draco Meteor.

Looking at the full team together,

...I think I may have accidentally created an Evil Team leader.

Rejected concept: play up the space theming of Draco Meteor and the legends along with an 'ancient wisdom' bent, didn't really fit in the standard pseudodragons. Possibly also a Gravity team?

Rejected concept: play up the rarity, using the mons with awkward encounter requirements. Just ends up being Cynthia.

 

[PokePoindexter]

In no particular order:

I don't think this one needs explaining.


It's a giant water serpent, which isn't too far removed from a dragon.


Another serpent, and it also learns Dragonbreath.


Dinosaurs vs. dragons has already been brought up in this thread. Here's my dinosaur of choice.


Prehistory has all sorts of gigantic arthropods, and since I can't pick Yanmega, I'll settle on Drapion instead.


Dragons and witches often have similar roles in mythology and fairy tales, so why not?

 

[Eeveeto]

Its a kraken, mythical creature of the sea, just as dragons are.
Looks like a dragon, learns some dragon moves and one of only 3 Mons (Garchomp and Milotic being the other ones) who are in the dragon egg group.
Another serpent, learns Dragon Tail and Dragon Dance among other moves. Gyarados's partner in crime, having excelent sinergy between them.
Like dragons, ghosts are also mythical, hard to find and very rare creatures. Cynthia seems to agree with me on this one.
This one has no relations to dragons at all, but if I am a Dragon type specialist in Sinnoh and my ace is Garchomp, its wise to have a Mon that provides Sand to the ace in order to make it even stronger.
No explanation needed here.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Well, being this is a thought experiment, gonna be a bit more experimental myself. Not just to keep things interesting, but this first one is a doozy. Hoping to maneuver around using the Dragon Egg Group and Dragon-type Moves, but Sinnoh doesn't provide much wiggle room here for Dragon-types. Well, at least in how I'm approaching things. Just to post some additional restrictions I'm putting onto myself:

1. No Ace Pokemon of another League Trainer in this gen. So, concerning Sinnoh and possibly choices I would have had for Dragon, that means (for me) no Rampardos, Lucario, Bastiodon, Drapion, and, most notably, Garchomp (aka, the ONLY Dragon-type in the DP dex).
2. At least half of my team has to be introduced in that gen (and in the dex) and my "Ace" must be a Pokemon of that gen.
3. I'm also restricting myself to what Moves, Abilities, and Items they had at that game's release (not counting remakes, so in this case no BDSP additions). Also I'm allowing myself Hidden Abilities (even if they were an Event or never distributed, gotta give myself some leeway and this is the least decisive; not that it matters for ones before Gen V) & Egg Moves though only if both parents are in the Regional Dex.

So, without further ado, My Sinnoh Dragon-type that doesn't have a single Dragon-type on it:

... I got some explaining to do

Staraptor (Ace)
Ability: Intimidate / Held Item: Shell Bell
Moves: Brave Bird/Close Combat/U-turn/Pursuit
Reason Picked: Bird = Dinosaur = Dragon. Now, why is it my ace when it learns no Dragon-type Moves whatsoever? Well, after limiting myself to the degree that I had, I decided if I couldn't have an actual dragon as my ace might as well make my ace feel like it would be going up against a formidable dragon. With its good Speed and high Attack, Staraptor likely strikes first with hard hitting Moves with coverage. Though, if I were allowed to break the rules, I would totally give it Dragon Claw.

Torterra
Ability: Overgrow / Held Item: Yache Berry
Moves: Wood Hammer/Earthquake/Leech Seed/Worry Seed
Reason Picked: Based on the World Turtle, it's a great reptilian creature such are dragons.

East Gastrodon
Ability: Storm Drain / Held Item: Smooth Rock
Moves: Surf/Earthquake/Sandstorm/Recover
Reason Picked: No, I didn't copy @BrloomBuddy, we just both happen to know about the blue dragon/glaucus sea slug. Okay, a bit of a stetch, and I was hurting on what other Gen IV Pokemon could possibly count. And if we were to compare dragons to dinosaurs which are prehistoric creatures, well sea slugs are one of the earliest life forms on the planet.

Gyarados
Ability: Intimidate / Held Item: Wacan Berry
Moves: Dragon Dance/Waterfall/Earthquake/Ice Fang
Reason Picked: Thank Arcues. Yeah, yeah, I picked Gyarados like every Water and Dragon specilaist and their mom. But it's that way for a good reason plus it actually knows a useful Dragon-type Move in DP.

Steelix
Ability: Rock Head / Held Item: Quick Claw
Moves: Gyro Ball/Earthquake/Double-Edge/Thunder Fang
Reason Picked: As others have pointed out, it's a serpent just like Gyarados, just land-based instead of water.

Blissey
Ability: Serene Grace / Held Item: Leftovers
Moves: Softboiled/Thunder/Blizzard/Fire Blast
Reason Picked: And now for my oddball choice (or should I say odd egg)! Dragons in most media lay eggs, so why not the egg Pokemon being part of a dragon team.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Just to post some additional restrictions I'm putting onto myself:

1. No Ace Pokemon of another League Trainer in this gen. So, concerning Sinnoh and possibly choices I would have had for Dragon, that means (for me) no Rampardos, Lucario, Bastiodon, Drapion, and, most notably, Garchomp (aka, the ONLY Dragon-type in the DP dex).
2. At least half of my team has to be introduced in that gen (and in the dex) and my "Ace" must be a Pokemon of that gen.

Okay so while I appreciate the effort this goes directly against

Don't worry about overlap with a specialist if one already exists in the region named: for the purposes of this exercise, they don't. Once again, you're not creating a character, just a roster of six Pokemon that showcase a certain type as best you can.

Some interesting oddball picks so far though, it's interesting seeing how people's thought processes work.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Okay so while I appreciate the effort this goes directly against

So, I was debating commenting on some of my thoughts on the rules. I wouldn't have you change any of them, there are certainly some which are a necessarily inclusions even if I feel they would have an affect on teambuilding (such as making an identity for the Type Specialist; it's not something allowed on Smogon, but a Type Specialist's personality can affect what Pokemon go on their team and what Pokemon is chosen to be their ace).

But since you brought up this specific rule, I'll comment on it:

Don't worry about overlap with a specialist if one already exists in the region named: for the purposes of this exercise, they don't. Once again, you're not creating a character, just a roster of six Pokemon that showcase a certain type as best you can.

Now, had you said something like Sinnoh/Fire, a combination which does have a Type Specialist (in my example's case, Flint), I would indeed pretend Flint doesn't exist and do my own Fire Team (though, once again, devoid of a trainer's face to put to the team it may as well be a random NPC on a route or in the Battle Facilities).

But, in the current challenge's case, there is no Dragon Specialist in Sinnoh (which, thinking about it now, is kind of odd as it's the gen which started the whole Legendary Mascot Dragons). Cynthia uses a team of various Pokemon. She would still exist, unless you specified this hypothetical Dragon Specialist is "replacing" Cynthia ("replacing" being used loosely as this exercise doesn't specify role in story, just that there's a Type Specialist boss).

But, okay, let's say we were "replacing" Cynthia therefore Garchomp is free to be added to teams. Great, BUT that doesn't change that Rampardos, Lucario, Bastiodon, & Drapion can be used. We're talking about the Sinnoh region, we're making a "boss" for the Sinnoh region, therefore we should be working around the already included characters (which mostly means not using their ace).

Because, otherwise, why bother? If there is no further restrictions aside from making a team with the Pokemon available in a game's regional dex, than you're not building a boss team. The boss's don't exist in a bubble, for the most part GF went out of their way so that no other notable NPC uses another notable NPC's ace (yes, there are some exceptions like Lucario, but Lucario has deemed as a special Pokemon in GF's eyes; its an exception that proves the rule). And by having this restriction, it allows teams to be more diverse and more Pokemon to be seen; possibly ones that would not have been used otherwise.

As I said, I'm not suggesting you change the rules. This is just a personal rule I want to follow as it forces me to be more creative and gives it a bit of a feeling of legitamacy. But, if you want me to make a Dragon/Sinnoh team without it, here:




It's nothing you haven't seen, pretty much all the dinosaur & sea serpent Pokemon (and of course the only Sinnoh com mon dragon as the ace).

Whiscash (The catfish Whiscash is based on is vaguely associated with dragons in some versions of the lore, which is also why it got Dragon Dance via breeding. Dragons that basically look like catfish are not unheard of in asian mythology anyways)

Directly relates to a Japanese mythological creature Namazu which Whiscash is based on. While Namazu has always been a catfish, at some point artists started giving it dragon features (which makes sense if you consider the Eastern Dragon's design and the carp jumping over the dragon gate legend).

Garchomp - The one dragon type if you didn't have this on your Dragon team you're out

Challenge accepted. ... And done!

Girafarig's kind of weird for a giraffe. It's got those spines along the back, it's got a tail with a tiny brain in it iand really sharp teeth. I think there's enough "oddities" here that you could put it in a Dragon tteam and go "I can kind of see it...", like a quasi-saurapod type deal maybe.

Could say it's similar to a Qilin or any of other semi-draconic/reptilian chimera creatures.

Looking at the full team together,

...I think I may have accidentally created an Evil Team leader.

Well it's kind of hard not to with a dragon team in general. Look at any of the actual Dragon Specialist teams, especially Dryaden's PWT teams & Iris's Champion team.

Some interesting oddball picks so far though, it's interesting seeing how people's thought processes work.

I wonder if I pick out all the odd ball picks it can still be deciphered these were all chosen to be on a Dragon-type team :



Dragons ya'll

 

[CryoGyro]

As someone who's been thinking about Pokemon game design a lot, this is the discussion topic I didn't know I needed. Thank you for making it.

team

Garchomp
Ability: Sand Veil
- Sandstorm
- Bulldoze
- Dragon Rush
- Fire Fang

Gyarados
Ability: Intimidate
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Bite

Rampardos
Ability: Mold Breaker
- Rock Polish
- Head Smash
- Outrage
- Hammer Arm

Golduck
Ability: Damp
- Nasty Plot
- Hydro Pump
- Focus Blast
- Hyper Beam

Drapion
Ability: Sniper
- Acupressure
- Cross Poison
- Night Slash
- Rock Slide

Golem
Ability: Sturdy
- Rock Polish
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Explosion

In my ideal of Pokemon, the purpose of a Gym Leader isn't simply to be a boss that happens to only use one type; it is to embody what that type represents, and leave the player with a greater appreciation for it. In a Dex as restrictive as DP Sinnoh, we must lean into how Dragon feels over what it objectively is. And as I see it, Dragon is one word: scary. Intimidating visual designs with plenty of sharp parts, big stats, wide coverage, few weaknesses, and moves with high risks of screwing the opponent or the user over. My team attempts to follow these themes through shared design motifs and less-than-competitive move choices.

Garchomp needs no justification, so let's discuss the set. All of my sets are intended to make the opponent squirm a bit, but not slam the door in their face with optimal setup or anything. In this case, Sandstorm means missing is always a factor if Garchomp gets a free turn. Since having Cynthia-tier moves on top of this would be extra frustrating, we take the raw power down a notch with Bulldoze and Fire Fang. They can still mess with you, but you shouldn't be getting blindsided and KOed on the spot, which is one of my least favorite things about difficult in-game fights. Dragon Rush stays because of its significant miss chance giving players an out against the raw power.

Gyarados is a dragon in all but type. It's a basic Dragon Dance set with Bite over Ice Fang because flinching increases the fear factor and to give Grass-types a bit of a break. I'm okay with a top-tier setup move here because Gyarados is a headliner, it has a fatal weakness in Electric, and Water + STABless Ground isn't the roughest combo out there.

Rampardos fits the Dragon philosophy to a T-bone. It's big, rugged, and all about taking risks to smash faces. Rock Polish makes it a proper threat if given the chance. Recoil Head Smash makes a statement on the team's philosophy. While Dragon-type coverage moves tend to be useless, so I shied away from them, Outrage fills a flavorful role as a neutral rampaging tool. Hammer Arm has neat synergy with Rock Polish and potentially leaves Rampardos open to revenge killing if it ambushes a Steel-type. That type of meaningful consequence is something I wish we saw more of in Dragon.

Golduck is definitely my weird pick, but I'm confident it's a good choice. It's in that Gen 1 no-man's-land of design inspirations: it's a duck yet has a humanoid build, prominent claws, a substantial tail, and a mysterious forehead gem. All that together makes it fit strangely well into a Dragon lineup. I had to stretch a bit for the moveset -- there isn't a lot of risky or scary stuff in that pool -- but I like having a booster that can flop spectacularly with unreliable moves. Hyper Beam helps tie it to Dragon iconography.

Drapion is plenty big, sharp, and scary enough to hang with dragons. It's even as annoying to raise with its Slow growth rate. Its set is the closest to a 'real' one, rolling the dice with Acupressure. The STAB moves threaten to destroy with a Sniper crit, while Rock Slide can flinch or miss, amping the tension.

Golem has the Dragon-evoking traits I'm sure you can see by now. It lives slow but dies hard. Its set is a bit more pushed since it's so easy to OHKO. Give it a chance, though, and you might be in trouble. Explosion could even send plan B packing.

Now I'll address some of the Pokemon many others picked, but I excluded:


Milotic, Torterra, and Whiscash are too serene for what I'm going for. They break the aesthetic with smooth curves and pastel colors, vibrant foilage, and carefree vibes, respectively. They also don't have much of a 'high roller' playstyle.


Steelix is a fine choice, but I'm subjectively a bit bored of it since it's already so common in Sinnoh. Dragon Breath isn't a powerful or interesting move, and again, its playstyle is too commonly laid back.

 

[misterdarvus]

My take is I'm an Elite 4 Dragon type in Sinnoh, with the mindset of E4 from Hoenn. Lets say I'm an Hoenn Immigrant

To not repeat species, i decide to bring their teenaged version instead. Hence Gabite and Onix
Serpents are Dragons, hence Steelix and Gyarados.
Dinosaurs are Dragons, therefore; Rampardos.
And Mr. Dragon himself, Garchomp (yes mine is male)

I was about to include Milotic, but it would be too much serpents and a bit much water. So I replaced Milo with Rampy

 

[guys the ret]

So uhhhhhh

Garchomp (Duh, only Dragon type)
Gyarados (Really should be a Dragon)
Milotic (Why not have both?)
Wishcash (Namazu thing said above)
Tentacruel (Kraken stand-in, as said above)
Empoleon (Birds = Dinosaurs = Dragons, but now it's a Tyrantrum stand-in)

Yes this is a water team with a Shark (A sea creature), I know

 

[CTNC]

DP Dex Dragon Team... Everyone bashes the DP Dex because of Flint's 2 Fire types, but there's also less Ice and Dragon types than Fairy, which didn't even exist at the time! *sigh* Let's start with the Dragons.

Garchomp

With that list, let's throw in Gabite too. Pre-Evolutions worked for letting the Ice Gym leader have 3 Ice types even though there's only 2 Evolution chains. I'm kind of surprised no one has brought this up, but even when DP doesn't stick to Type, they at least have every Pokemon know moves of that Type. With that in mind, does it learn a Dragon Move by Level Up? It's on the team.

Steelix and Milotic learn Dragonbreath by Level up.
Lucario learns Dragon Pulse by Level up.
Gyrados learns Dragon Dance and Twister.
(Whiscash only gets Dragon Dance in HGSS, so it's not an option.)

Mantine and Pelipper have Twister as an Egg Move. I may be scraping the bottom of the barrel, but no. Just no. Pokemon that learn Dragon TMs include everyone I'm already using and Rampardos with Dragon Pulse. Wow. The options are so limited. I'm sure most of you would use Rampardos over Lucario or Milotic, but I don't think the AI would make Ramparados use Dragon Pulse much if it knew Physical Attacks and it feels like it'd be a waste to not use Rampardos's 165 Atk Stat, so... Good thing using Gabite makes it enough for a Team of 6.




That looks pretty solid other than Gabite and the only one that looks like they don't fit they Type is Lucario, so I think I'm doing better than the actual in game guys that had to slap other Types on their teams.



Gabite
- Dragon Claw
- Dig
- Stealth Rock
- Sandstorm

This is the weaker Garchomp and moveset reflects that. I wanted every Pokemon to have at least one "new" move and Stealth Rock seemed like a good choice for a lead and can be seen as a weaker version of one of Garchomp's Attacks. Sandstorm is to use its Ability, Sand Veil, and is mostly a Wynaut move.


Steelix
- Dragon Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Hyper Beam
- Swagger

It has to know a Dragon Move and the only other option was Dragonbreath. Out of disrespect for DP, I'm leaning into this being terrible and making it an entirely Special Steelix. (Feel free to read that as Special as in "Special" instead of Special as in Special Attack. :P) Steelix couldn't Earth Power until it was a Tutor Move, so I went with the most awesome move instead because Dragons are Awesome! Swagger is to make it actually threatening and works well with its Base 200 Defense.


Milotic
- Dragon Pulse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Double Team

If there's one thing from older games that I don't miss, it's Bosses with Double Team. This is an older game, so let's throw in a bulky Pokemon with Double Team! Rest heals Toxic and activates Marvel Scale too, so have fun. To make sure you can have fun with Double Team making moves miss more and more, Sleep Talk lets Milotic use Double Team even while asleep! Dragon Pulse over STAB is because it has to know a Dragon Move, so there wasn't room with Rest Talk + Double Team, which is a shame because I was tempted to put Toxic over Water STAB. I was also tempted to slap on Bright Powder, but I didn't because of Trainers mostly only having Items on their Ace. Then again, it's not like you'd be able to tell there's an item when Double Team is already making your moves miss...


Lucario
- Dragon Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Iron Tail
- Extremespeed

Dragon Pulse and Aura Sphere were no brainers. I couldn't say no to Lucario's Signature Move! (or the close enough to a Signature Move anyway.) I figured I could have a mixed Attacker after failing (on purpose) with Steelix to make one, so I went with Iron Tail for Steel STAB and Extremespeed for priority and because it's a cool move IMO and Dragons are cool! NGL, this is the moveset I put the least thought into.


Gyrados
Intimidate
- Dragon Dance
- Aqua Tail
- Ice Fang
- Payback

No Dragon Pulse because a Status Move is good enough. (More than good enough in my extremely biased opinion. :P) Game Freak showed that with Flint's Drifblim knowing Will-O-Wisp. Aqua Tail over Waterfall is because they're both valid choices but Aqua Tail is a "new" move. I feel like an offensive Water Types should have Ice coverage because almost all of them learn Ice Attacks, so Ice Fang was a must. I didn't want to use Earthquake when both actual Dragons already knew Ground Attacks and Flail was tempting but I thought that's be too many Normal Attacks on this team. Stone Edge looked like the best remaining Attack, but I thought it'd make Garchomp feel even more special if it only had moves no one else on the team had. That left Payback or Bite. Payback has anti-synergy with Dragon Dance's Speed Boost, but it can be Power 100 if you're hit first.


Garchomp @ Sitrus Berry
Sand Veil
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Giga Impact

Dragon Rush and Earthquake are upgrades to Gabite's Dragon Claw and Dig. Stone Edge is a direct Attack with high Power instead of Stealth Rock's low damage and Giga Impact is because it's the Physical Hyper Beam and Hyper Beam is awesome!!!1! The final Pokemon usual has a Berry, so I gave Garchomp a Berry.

 

[UberSkitty]

While Whiscash getting DDance in a later game was originally what got me obsessed attracted me to it, I knew I needed more reason. So, after a little looking around, I' found out that Whiscash was not only based on a catfish, but a Japanese legend named Namazu, a large catfish that was said to be the cause of Earthquakes. Hadn't realized that someone already said all of this, but still, If this mf isn't badass enough to qualify as a dragon, idk what is. Also Whiscash is their ace instead of Garchomp kek.

Shiny Garchomp :^)

Gyarados and Steelix all have that serpent-like body that gives them that dragon-look. If you've read the manga, you know how cool Lance's Dragonairs were when they swirled around together in the sky. Now imagine that with Gyarados and Steelix (who can float with the Air Balloon!) Also considered Milotic but felt a little redundant.

Chimes are common for festivals, many of which also include celebrations involving dragons such as Chinese New Year. Also chimes sound all mystical and stuff.

Similar to Agatha in RBY and a bunch of others, the lack of Dragon mons means it's time to dip into pre-evo territory. Also as a PU player I can say Gabite is still better than a lotta fully evolved mons lol.

Final Team (in order of party):

​

 

[MegaFlareon]

A team based on Sand weather to make Sand Veil Gabite and Garchomp even more challenging to face. Evasion clause isn't a thing on ingame play, so this strategy is fully legal.




Hippowdon @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Ice Fang
Lead and Sand setter for the team. Smooth Rock allows it to extend the Sand duration for the team to take advantage of.


Steelix
Ability: Sturdy
-Iron Tail
-Earthquake
-Dragon Breath
-Roar
Another bulky Pokémon to challenge the player. Dragon Breath may be weak but the 30% paralysis chance can really be annoying. Roar racks up hazard damage which synergizes well with its massive physical bulk.


Gabite
Ability: Sand Veil
-Dragon Rush
-Earth Power
-Fire Blast
-Attract
The first actual Dragon-type Pokémon and the first to directly take advantage of Sand. It gets a powerful set of damaging moves, though Earth Power and Fire Blast only runs of a 50 Special Attack stat which can actually give the player character somewhat of a breather. Attract is random filler but can be infuriating if its supposed check gets attracted.


Golduck
Ability: Cloud Nine
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Psychic
-Disable
Golduck gives the team type variety while also being unaffected by Sand chip damage thanks to Cloud Nine. It is also the strongest Special attacker in the team, with powerful Special attacks to boot.


Bastiodon @ Smooth Rock
-Metal Burst
-Sandstorm
-Metal Sound
-Roar
Bastiodon acts as a secondary Sand setter so the Sand weather could be taken advantage by the last Pokemon. Metal Burst is its damaging move, a good way to bypass its poor offensive stats. Metal Sound softens the opponent for Garchomp's Draco Meteor.


Garchomp @ Sitrus Berry
-Draco Meteor
-Earthquake
-Fire Fang
-Crunch
The ace and the strongest Pokémon in the team. Its attacks are strong and straightforward, while Sand Veil makes it even more difficult to take down.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Whoops, I forgot to put a poll up yesterday! Ah well. Thank you to everyone who contributed their thoughts, it made for extremely interesting reading.

https://take.quiz-maker.com/poll4834083xd8474Cae-149​

And here's our first poll of this thread! I've listed everyone who contributed a team - and with fourteen competitors, there's some serious competition here. Have a read back through the thread and go and vote for the username you believe designed the best team, and/or justified their picks most convincingly.

The poll is open until 10pm GMT on Sunday (must set an alarm to actually remember this time) - votes cast after this time will NOT be counted. You may vote for yourself, but please only vote once. I will DM the winner shortly afterward.

Turtlek & Pikachu315111 unfortunately both your entries are disqualified, but please feel free to try again next time.


Also, I used a fairly standard free poll maker, but if anyone can suggest a better one please do.

Now, had you said something like Sinnoh/Fire, a combination which does have a Type Specialist (in my example's case, Flint), I would indeed pretend Flint doesn't exist and do my own Fire Team (though, once again, devoid of a trainer's face to put to the team it may as well be a random NPC on a route or in the Battle Facilities).

But, in the current challenge's case, there is no Dragon Specialist in Sinnoh (which, thinking about it now, is kind of odd as it's the gen which started the whole Legendary Mascot Dragons). Cynthia uses a team of various Pokemon. She would still exist, unless you specified this hypothetical Dragon Specialist is "replacing" Cynthia ("replacing" being used loosely as this exercise doesn't specify role in story, just that there's a Type Specialist boss).

We're talking about the Sinnoh region, we're making a "boss" for the Sinnoh region, therefore we should be working around the already included characters (which mostly means not using their ace).

I thought I'd replied to this the other day but briefly (as it may be instructive for others)

For the purposes of this I'm thinking that none of them exist. That you not consider any of the NPC bosses at all. The point of this is that you have complete free reign to design a team as you please. One that best showcases the type in question given the constraints of the region/game/Pokedex to hand. To be clear: I am asking you to imagine that the Sinnoh region has been scoured clean of NPCs - no-one exists in it now except the Pokemon.

Because, otherwise, why bother? If there is no further restrictions aside from making a team with the Pokemon available in a game's regional dex, than you're not building a boss team. The boss's don't exist in a bubble, for the most part GF went out of their way so that no other notable NPC uses another notable NPC's ace (yes, there are some exceptions like Lucario, but Lucario has deemed as a special Pokemon in GF's eyes; its an exception that proves the rule). And by having this restriction, it allows teams to be more diverse and more Pokemon to be seen; possibly ones that would not have been used otherwise.

Bosses don't exist in a bubble, but these teams do. Even without further restrictions, there is nothing to stop you from being as free and diverse as you wish as long as you can make the case for it - that is the whole point here. This thread is not titled "what team would you make to represent a particular type if all the good species were taken". Even if there were six Dragon-types to be used in Sinnoh, you might very well wish to include non-Dragons if you think that doing so eliminates redundancy or increases strategy. People might question it, but that's why I've asked contributors to justify their thinking.

As I've probably noted on other threads in the past, there is also heavy precedent for bosses using each other's signature Pokemon, even within the same game. Off the top of my head:

RBYFRLG: Bruno's Onix, Blue's Alakazam and Arcanine
GSCHGSS: Falkner/Blue's Pidgeot, Karen's Gengar, Clair's Dragonite
RSEORAS: Drake uses Aarune, Winona, Juan, and Zinnia's aces
DPPBDSP: Cynthia's Roserade and Lucario, Barry's Floatzel and Roserade
BWB2W2: Iris' Hydreigon, Ghetsis' Bisharp, Alder's Chandelure and Conkeldurr (Iris and Drayden also obviously share Haxorus as an ace)
XY: Diantha's Hawlucha, Tyrantrum, and Aurorus